The Political Thread

[The Legendary Shark]

I love voting. I just vote to not get involved. If a vote is as important and sacrosanct as you seem to believe, why is mine invalid? I keep my vote to myself instead of giving it to some pre-approved politician and I use it all the time to decide my own fate instead of once every four years merely to express a preference.

Make no mistake, I love my vote at least as much as you do and will neither waste it or give it away.

[Funt Solo]

Well, we can probably all agree that Brexit was a great idea, anyway...

Brexit: 'I was asked to pay an extra £82 for my £200 coat'

[IndigoPrime]

Project Fear, even though we've been screaming about this since May's stupid speech.

[JayzusB.Christ]

I had to order something on amazon the other day. I was about to order from the UK, then remembered things would be cheaper and probably quicker if I ordered from an EU country. So I did that. I say that without any pleasure whatsoever.  I wish things could have been different.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Meanwhile in Northern Ireland, we can only order from amazon.co.uk now, unless you want food or drink. The sometimes cheaper alternatives of .de and .fr are rejecting all orders to BT postcodes now, since the orders would go through that racist wee island off the west coast. I suppose we shouldn't be giving Bezos any more money, and this will encourage people to buy from all the local shops which are closed due to the pandemic.
Ebay? Forget it.

In other news, Biden's whitehouse has released a 200 page document outlining their Covid strategy. I haven't read it in detail, but at least it exists.

[broodblik]

Theodore Roosevelt once said: 'In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing'.

Unless doing nothing is the right thing.

I am going to sound like I am preaching now but is it not better to decide for yourself rather that someone else make the decision for you?  This is especially true in a democracy if you do not decide and the majority make a bad decision which your vote could have changed you still need to life it.

[sheridan]

Yay - it's President Biden now! And VP Kamala Harris - the first female, black VP in US history.

I'm with Voltaire on this one - it might not be folk's idea of perfection, but it's good in comparison to what we've just suffered under the rule of a wannabe fascist dictator.

Is that a Candide reference?  ""the best of all possible worlds".  Roll on El Dorado!

[IndigoPrime]

which your vote could have changed

This is the problem with our current system. There are clearly the numbers to usher in a better society, but so many of them don't vote. If the under-30s voted in the same percentages as pensioners, the Tories would be toast. But they don't. I just hope that if we see a miracle and Labour win the next GE, they'll recognise it as a potential blip and usher in PR. (My ideal would be for Labour to win about 300 seats and the Lib Dems to be on 30 — as unlikely as that seems at the moment. The price for support would be STV.)

[JayzusB.Christ]

Aye.  Unfortunately when I see low election or referendum turnouts, I don't tend to immediately think 'Ah, nice to see so many conscientious objectors who refuse on moral grounds to take part*' - I think 'why are there so many lazy or uninformed feckers who could get the finger out and help us change things**'?  And I suspect most of those in power take next to no notice of the non-voters, or even relish the fact that young or minority potential voters have stayed at home.

In fact the Republicans in the US seem to be very much in favour of people not voting; high turnout generally doesn't work out in their favour.***  Hence the shameless attempts by some states to make voting difficult in minority-heavy areas, but that's another story.



*I fully understand that some of them are genuine moral objectors, of course, like Sharky or my mate Cathal.
**I was a lazy and uninformed fecker a couple of times in my younger days and missed a couple of elections as a result.
***which, although I'm certainly no expert, suggest that the majority of people in the states have preferred the Democrats for a very long time, but sometimes find it difficult or impossible to vote.

[Professor Bear]

Why would you turn out to vote when alternatives are presented as being worse?

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

I reckon there's a phenomenon where an individual thinks taking a certain action won't make any difference. However, there are a significant number of individuals not taking that action for the similar reasons, to the point where if they all just acted it would make an actual difference.

Like someone who lives in a constituency with a perceived "safe seat", so doesn't bother voting. Maybe the seat is only safe because there are enough people who don't vote for the same reason?

Or with the current pandemic, an individual might think it's okay to ignore the guidelines "just this once*, because I'm only blah, blah, blah...", but there are thousands, if not tens of thousands of individuals acting like this and...well here we are almost a year later and things are the worst they've been.

I don't really know much** about sociology, but surely this is an observed, analyzed and named phenomenon?

Why would you turn out to vote when alternatives are presented as being worse?

I look forward to next election when Boris de Pfeffel claims the opposition are too incompetent to govern

*I'm being quite generous here
**anything

[IndigoPrime]

Exactly. If enough people believe they cannot change things and act accordingly, the result is that things do not change. That's not to say numbers always result in success. I went on all those EU referendum marches. Political cowardice, tribalism and hubris ensured we failed — and I still don't believe the notion of a confirmatory referendum, although alien to the UK, was that much of a long shot — but at least we tried. In elections, though, there are regular opportunities to turn things around.

I suspect most of those in power take next to no notice of the non-voters

It's worse than that—and this is something the Labour leadership consistently fails to grasp—in that most Tories as a rule (especially MPs) don't really care about anyone who doesn't vote Tory, and often don't care about many who do. But, yeah, non-voters in particular don't matter to Tories. The young don't matter either. Nor do people who aren't wealthy. But they have a voice. The issue is so many don't use it.

I wish more people would get angry about this and figure out how to kick the fuckers out. Yes, that might not result in a utopia, but it would result in meaningful change. I'm not a big fan of Starmer, and he's making some really weird/bad decisions. But it's absurd to think a Starmer-led government wouldn't be a meaningful improvement over the shitshow we have today. (See also: Biden vs Trump.)

As for safe seats, that's a different kettle of fish. But even there, progress can be made. Safe seats can become marginals, which would scare the shit out of the incumbent for at least one term. Marginals can flip. So even if you live somewhere where a Tory has an actual majority share, that doesn't mean you should just say "oh well—fuck it". Additionally, short money exists. So although my vote is broadly meaningless in electoral terms, it does mean the party I do vote for will receive more money later on.

[Funt Solo]

I love voting. I just vote to not get involved. If a vote is as important and sacrosanct as you seem to believe, why is mine invalid? I keep my vote to myself instead of giving it to some pre-approved politician and I use it all the time to decide my own fate instead of once every four years merely to express a preference.

Make no mistake, I love my vote at least as much as you do and will neither waste it or give it away.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength and now not voting is voting.

Amazing!

[The Legendary Shark]

A vote is an expression of will, a choice. As we previously discussed with murder and theft, the perception of choice is altered by changing its name to "vote." Choices are infinite, votes are restricted. Choices are rights, votes are privileges. Choices work in all situations, votes have limited scope.

But hey, if you don't believe me you can always vote with your feet...

[Funt Solo]

"Well, maybe I am and maybe I'm not!"