The Political Thread

[JOE SOAP]

It's home.

[judgefloyd]

I'm glad you're enjoying your one-bedroom hovel, Joe.
   Credit where credit is due -  I had forgotten about the purple fruit pastilles.  Those ones are pretty good.
   I only mentioned Jimmy Carter as an instance of evangelical Christians not necessarily being right-wing nutbags.  Now I have learned that he is anti-semitic, if you use the standards of Lipstader (ie anything other than uncritical one-eyed support of Israel is anti-semtic).  I don't have a shrine to him either, but he always seemed to be one of the nice guys.
  I should apologise for derailing a discussion of Irish politics.  I have absolutely no idea what's going on there.

[JOE SOAP]

Not sure if he's a 'nice guy' -can anyone really be one when they reach that level- but on this thread the diversion of JC's toothy-grin is a bobbing-raft in a ocean of po-faces.

[Beaky Smoochies]

I never understood why Palestine was chosen as the location for a jewish homeland anyway.  Might have been a hard sell persuading Jews to flock back to the Fatherland, mind.

Just when I am determined to pretty much vacate this thread, y'all seem to get very reasonable in your responses, so thank you one and all for ALL responses, was genuinely interesting to say the least...

Palestine wasn't chosen for the Jewish homeland, the Jewish homeland was ethnically cleansed by the Romans and then named Palestine to rub the Hebrew's nose in it, and the Zionist movement may have been started by men, but it was ordained by God, it's HIS land, not the Jews and not the Arabs, He gave it to Moses and the Israelites following the Exodus, was taken away from them in 70 A.D. because they rejected and crucified the Christ, and have been restored nationally (but not spiritually, not yet) since 1948 in fulfillment of prophecy, some here will resent me saying that, but it's the truth, and I stand on it...

Might have been a hard sell persuading Jews to flock back to the Fatherland, mind.

Ah, a touch of the gallows humor there, quite...

[Beaky Smoochies]

Beaky, being as you are an unapologetically right-wing Christian evangelical Zionist social and economic conservative with libertarian leanings, you've got a vested interest in the restoration of Israel, yes?

Sorry, forgot to reply to this one before, I have absolutely NO vested interest in the restoration of Israel, God's ultimate plan of redemption for the Jews will happen regardless of whether I approve/disapprove/care about that nation state, which I very much do, as it happens, but it's not a vested interest per se, I have no financial ties to Israel, have no family or friends there, never visited or considering moving there, don't know a single Israeli citizen by name, but I care about God's chosen people because we as Christians are told to respect and treat them right because they ARE God's chosen people - "And I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse those who curses you, and in you all the families of the Earth will be blessed", Genesis 12:3 - it makes no difference to God's ultimate plan what I think or what I do regarding Israel, but it makes a difference to God how we treat the Jews, both individually and nationally (one big reason for the UK's decline post-1948), and that's what concerns me, Israel will get along just fine without me or any evangelical Christian (especially the likes of Carter), they have the Almighty on their side, and that trumps any United Nations resolution any day (thank God)...

[Frank]

You've got to accept that for me and the rest of the three quarters of the world's population who aren't either Jewish or Christian, and who don't consider The Bible to be revealed truth, appeals to the authority of that book are meaningless.

[Beaky Smoochies]

Aw shucks, back to the Billy beer then...

[The Prodigal]

I never understood why Palestine was chosen as the location for a jewish homeland anyway.  Might have been a hard sell persuading Jews to flock back to the Fatherland, mind.

Just when I am determined to pretty much vacate this thread, y'all seem to get very reasonable in your responses, so thank you one and all for ALL responses, was genuinely interesting to say the least...

Palestine wasn't chosen for the Jewish homeland, the Jewish homeland was ethnically cleansed by the Romans and then named Palestine to rub the Hebrew's nose in it, and the Zionist movement may have been started by men, but it was ordained by God, it's HIS land, not the Jews and not the Arabs, He gave it to Moses and the Israelites following the Exodus, was taken away from them in 70 A.D. because they rejected and crucified the Christ, and have been restored nationally (but not spiritually, not yet) since 1948 in fulfillment of prophecy, some here will resent me saying that, but it's the truth, and I stand on it...

Might have been a hard sell persuading Jews to flock back to the Fatherland, mind.

Ah, a touch of the gallows humor there, quite...

Speaking as a Christian Beaky I have to point out that not everyone signs up to your particular interpretation of things. I do not intend to hijack this thread again and push it down the theology route but just feel the need to point that out for the purposes of the viewing public.

[The Prodigal]

Beaky, being as you are an unapologetically right-wing Christian evangelical Zionist social and economic conservative with libertarian leanings, you've got a vested interest in the restoration of Israel, yes?

Sorry, forgot to reply to this one before, I have absolutely NO vested interest in the restoration of Israel, God's ultimate plan of redemption for the Jews will happen regardless of whether I approve/disapprove/care about that nation state, which I very much do, as it happens, but it's not a vested interest per se, I have no financial ties to Israel, have no family or friends there, never visited or considering moving there, don't know a single Israeli citizen by name, but I care about God's chosen people because we as Christians are told to respect and treat them right because they ARE God's chosen people - "And I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse those who curses you, and in you all the families of the Earth will be blessed", Genesis 12:3 - it makes no difference to God's ultimate plan what I think or what I do regarding Israel, but it makes a difference to God how we treat the Jews, both individually and nationally (one big reason for the UK's decline post-1948), and that's what concerns me, Israel will get along just fine without me or any evangelical Christian (especially the likes of Carter), they have the Almighty on their side, and that trumps any United Nations resolution any day (thank God)...

This represents one particular school of theology. It's not mine. With mine there is no need to spiritually under-write Israeli abuses.

http://www.stephensizer.com/2011/07/john-stott-the-place-of-israel/

Beaky you may recognise the name.Maybe in your world he was a vicious anti-semite or summat.

Ps I don't support Hamas etc and do know people in the middle east. I work in the field of peace and reconciliation with a Christian ethos'ed organisation.

PPS to everyone already bored. I'm sorry.

[Beaky Smoochies]

Speaking as a Christian Beaky I have to point out that not everyone signs up to your particular interpretation of things. I do not intend to hijack this thread again and push it down the theology route but just feel the need to point that out for the purposes of the viewing public.

I know, I don't expect you and I to agree on every theological matter, glad you're along for the ride though...

This represents one particular school of theology. It's not mine. With mine there is no need to spiritually under-write Israeli abuses.
http://www.stephensizer.com/2011/07/john-stott-the-place-of-israel/
Beaky you may recognise the name.Maybe in your world he was a vicious anti-semite or summat.

John Stott no, Stephen Sizer most definitely YES. With great big feckin' bells on...

[Trout]

If there is a God, he should strike down people who punctuate badly.

[Eric Plumrose]

Beaky, being as you are an unapologetically right-wing Christian evangelical Zionist social and economic conservative with libertarian leanings, you've got a vested interest in the restoration of Israel, yes?

Sorry, forgot to reply to this one before, I have absolutely NO vested interest in the restoration of Israel, God's ultimate plan of redemption for the Jews will happen regardless of whether I approve/disapprove/care about that nation state . . .

By vested interest, I meant the Second Coming. Israel's restoration hastens all that, doesn't it? You've classed yourself as being a 'Christian evangelical Zionist', that's what prompted me to ask.

[Eric Plumrose]

If there is a God, he should strike down people who punctuate badly.

Mea culpa! I should've put Beaky's original declaration in quotes.

[Beaky Smoochies]

By vested interest, I meant the Second Coming. Israel's restoration hastens all that, doesn't it? You've classed yourself as being a 'Christian evangelical Zionist', that's what prompted me to ask.

Oh right, gotcha now, sorry 'bout that.  The answer, simply put, is a resounding NO, Israel's restoration does not alter one iota the time of the Second Coming, it neither hastens it, nor would it delay it if Israel didn't exist as a nation state presently, God has a time for everything already laid out in advance, if mankind could change His plans by their own actions, He wouldn't be much of an omnipotent and omniscient Deity, now would He?

[The Prodigal]

Speaking as a Christian Beaky I have to point out that not everyone signs up to your particular interpretation of things. I do not intend to hijack this thread again and push it down the theology route but just feel the need to point that out for the purposes of the viewing public.

I know, I don't expect you and I to agree on every theological matter, glad you're along for the ride though...

This represents one particular school of theology. It's not mine. With mine there is no need to spiritually under-write Israeli abuses.
http://www.stephensizer.com/2011/07/john-stott-the-place-of-israel/
Beaky you may recognise the name.Maybe in your world he was a vicious anti-semite or summat.

John Stott no, Stephen Sizer most definitely YES. With great big feckin' bells on...

You seriously have never heard of John Stott? Beaky he probably was the most prominent British evangelical of the last 50 years.