The Political Thread

[Jim_Campbell]

The bigger issue is the Senate results, which could well destroy a new administration's ability to do anything.  It's here JFK's tiny margin becomes relevant: he was unable to get any of his progressive proposals through Congress in his short tenure, and it's really only posthumously that he became an effective President.

Interestingly, the Senate isn't quite as settled as the reporting would have you believe. Breakdown of the current state of play on Twitter here.

[TordelBack]

Interestingly, the Senate isn't quite as settled as the reporting would have you believe. Breakdown of the current state of play on Twitter here.

Yeah, was heartened to see that. It certainly didn't come across that way yesterday.

Hopefully there'll be a functional administration, and all we'll have to deal with is the US being a right-wing global menace on 'Normal' difficulty. 

[IndigoPrime]

I've never seen any real analysis of where those Labour voters went in 2019. Not to the Conservatives, since their share of the vote barely moved. I'm assuming the remainers went Lib Dem or Green because Labour weren't remain-ey enough.

Judging by Best for Britain research, quite a few long-time Labour in key seats went Conservative. They've done plenty of research and talked to voters who flipped, and in the most recent Oh God What Now podcast, Naomi Smith noted that quite a few of these voters are very resolute in their choice, because it cut them up and they don't want to be proven wrong. Getting them back is going to be a tricky job for Labour—although perhaps not that tricky if the Tories continue to more or less say fuck the north. (The north in this case being anything north of Watford. Or west of the M25, for that matter.)

As for the US election, Arizona is freaking me out a bit. Biden can afford to lose that and Nevada if Pa goes blue. Nate Silver reckons Pa will go blue, but I'm frankly not putting a lot of faith in his forecasting right now.

[Jim_Campbell]

Judging by Best for Britain research, quite a few long-time Labour in key seats went Conservative.

The numbers don't really bear that out as a major factor, though — Labour's share of the vote dropped by something like 7.5% and the Tories' only went up by 1.2%. Obviously, the relative size of each party's pool of voters will account for some of that difference, but nowhere near all of it...

[Dandontdare]

Today we have seen the bizarre situation of Trump-supporting protesters in states where Biden's ahead chanting "count all the votes" and Trump-supporting protesters in states he's leading chanting "stop the count"

The idea that the same rules should apply to everyone seems to have been long abandoned by this administration and it's followers.

[radiator]

Nope, I can't think of anyone either!

I suppose the tragedy is that someone like Sanders (who would actually fight really hard for working class rights) gets dismissed as being some kind of crazy left-wing radical

The point is that its clear that anyone running on the Democratic ticket will be 'dismissed as some kind of crazy left-wing liberal'. This was exactly the charge leveled against (hilariously) Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

I can only go on my own experience but my gut feeling is that a lot of right wingers (media types and voters) if anything have a kind of respect, possibly even bordering on admiration, for Sanders whereas they have nothing but contempt for Obama, Biden, Clinton etc. And honestly that isn't unfounded. I have a feeling that Trump's usual routine just wouldn't work on Sanders in the same way. Granted I live in a liberal bubble (though not so much as you might suspect from where I live - eg my next door neighbour is a Qanon fan) but literally everyone I know would have (enthusiastically) voted for Sanders. I don't know anyone who is remotely passionate about Biden. You see a lot of yard signs for 'Any Functioning Adult 2020'. And this is all Biden is to most people, a means to an end. There's no passion on the Democratic side to match what there is on the right.

Sanders obviously would not have the support of the right side of the dems (and the former republicans in their ranks), but imo he'd have a damn sight more of a chance of getting through to Trump voters in swing states than any candidate they could field. The present situation - where the voting habits of the population seems to be entirely split down the middle between the cities and rural areas, surely cannot continue.

It is beyond a shadow of a doubt now that for all their patronising dismissal of Bernie supporters, the Democratic Party do not have a single clue what they are doing. They might scrape a win, but its a Pyrrhic victory at best. I'm an idiot, and even I could have called what just happened. Why not roll the dice?

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

I remember the last time Trump got elected I had just finished reading Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72 by Hunter S. Thompson*. His almost 50 year old words are sadly still relevant.

"Liberalism itself has failed, and for a pretty good reason. It has been too often compromised by the people who represented it."

"The main problem in any democracy is that crowd-pleasers are generally brainless swine who can go out on a stage & whup their supporters into an orgiastic frenzy—then go back to the office & sell every one of the poor bastards down the tube for a nickel apiece."

"A lot of blood has gone under the bridge since then, and we have all learned a hell of a lot about the realities of Politics in America. Even the politicians have learned – but, as usual, the politicians are much slower than the people they want to lead."

But most importantly

"Every now and then you have to get away from that ugly Old Politics trip, or it will drive you to kicking the walls and hurling AR3's into the fireplace."

*The real one, not the cartoon character portrayed by wife beater** Johnny Depp in the Terry Gilliam movie

**I can call him that without fear of reprisal.

[The Legendary Shark]

There seems to be a good deal of disillusionment and distrust surrounding the current US democratic process. What are the root causes, do you think? How can they be remedied or at least alleviated?

[radiator]

For me the only memorable moment from the entire Biden campaign was when he told Trump to 'shut up, man!' during the first debate. It resonated because it felt honest, and is what everyone was thinking. And yet Biden probably thought of it as a faux pas.

If one thing is clear it's that people are sick and tired of polished, moderate politicians. The left need to embrace a bit of Trump's off the cuff style. Doesn't mean they have to behave like complete pricks like him all the time, just show a bit of genuine passion. Call the other side on their shit. Fight fire with fire. You see how Trump just responds to attacks by punching back? It obviously works!

Biden's whole schtick of 'crossing the aisle' and compromise seems so ludicrously old fashioned and naive in this day and age.

[sheridan]

*The real one, not the cartoon character portrayed by wife beater** Johnny Depp in the Terry Gilliam movie

**I can call him that without fear of reprisal.

Didn't do Sean Connery's career any harm.  Pretty sickening idol-worship of an unrepentant spousal abuser in the last week

[radiator]

Articles like this crack me up. You're really just figuring this out now?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/theres-no-escaping-who-we-have-become/616992/

People weren't somehow 'tricked' into electing Trump in 2016. They knew exactly who and what they were voting for, and they did it anyway.

[Funt Solo]

They might scrape a win, but its a Pyrrhic victory at best.

I have to disagree. If Trump goes, that's insanely good news, for all sorts of reasons. And Biden is calling for calm even as Trump foments discord. Biden's not my perfect candidate for president, but he's a voice of reason against a voice of hate. I'll take that every day of the week - and especially this week.

Day-dreams about the potential of Sanders (or Corbyn) haven't produced fruit.

[shaolin_monkey]

They might scrape a win, but its a Pyrrhic victory at best.

I have to disagree. If Trump goes, that's insanely good news, for all sorts of reasons.

The main one being our civilisations may now be able to weather the coming storm, keep deaths to just a few million, and stop it from getting much worse.

[CalHab]

Day-dreams about the potential of Sanders (or Corbyn) haven't produced fruit.

Sanders is like an articulate and competent Corbyn. He would have been destroyed in exactly the same way Corbyn was.

[Jim_Campbell]

Sanders is like an articulate and competent Corbyn. He would have been destroyed in exactly the same way Corbyn was.

Amusingly, they actually wheeled out the antisemitism slur against what passes for the left in the US quite early on in the primaries... before it dawned on them that was difficult to make it stick against Sanders, what with him being Jewish and everything.*


*Although, they weren't really trying. McNicoll and his cronies at Labour Party Central managed to expel a Jewish son of Holocaust survivors for antisemitism... and if that sentence doesn't give you some clue as to how fucked up the "Labour Antisemitism" row was, I don't know what will.