The Political Thread

[Goaty]

[IndigoPrime]

A Trump win is the best thing that could've happened as it will likely galvanise a stronger outside opposition to the right-wing corporatist faction the DNC have become

Which is basically the argument people made here about Labour swinging left with Corbyn, and the polling puts the Tories even higher than they were. (And, yes, polling is shit, but it generally underestimates the right.) It's also not the best thing for any minorities, women, equality, climate change, world stability, and even European safety.

It's amazing that even with the full support of the media, The Republican Party and the establishment, Clinton still failed to get elected against Trump. That's how weak a candidate she was.

Full support of the media? You mean the media that spent months merrily hammering Clinton about trustworthiness, and somehow equated all the shit Trump had done with her relatively low count of shit? Or how "they both lie" ignored the actual facts.

We're in post-truth politics for real now. We're in nationalism for real. Anyone who's remotely progressive should be terrified about the future. All eyes on France to see how Le Pen's mob do. As I saw someone state earlier, bizarre to see the UK and USA swing towards fascism just as Germany has become the smart hope of the world. (Although one wonders how the German elections will go now.)

[Theblazeuk]

This idea that the worst outcome is somehow going to be a galvanising effect for positive change in the long-term is.... well, sorry. Deluded. Naive. Idiotic.

And yes, this idea that Clinton 'Had the media in the bag' is at odds with the reality of the past couple of years. All you can really say on that front is that Trump didn't have the support of the media but also to a great extent didn't have their hostility either, certainly not to the extent the email server debacle had.

[TordelBack]

We're in post-truth politics for real now. We're in nationalism for real. Anyone who's remotely progressive should be terrified about the future. All eyes on France to see how Le Pen's mob do.

QFT.

It's as if every comment thread I've ever screamed at in frustration has suddenly been incarnated as a swarm of puffed-up homunculi and taken over the world.  I wonder how much of this counter-factual self-destructive groundswell is born of the new media and its relentless culture of baseless mutual-masturbatory affirmation, where every unsubstantiated statement can be given the status of eternal truth, and every bigoted throwback is an enlightened crusader for a world free of the burdens of decency.

[Satanist]

Surely now we at least get to see him admit it was all shit talk and he's not actually going to build a wall, lock up Clinton, ban muslims etc.

right?


right?

[Hawkmumbler]

If only Trump was half as pantomime as Sharky writes him, it would be the best comedy of the 21st century. Sadly, i'm left with a feeling of impending horror for my friends. A world of uncertainty, of horror and violence, of neo-nazi values and misery.

I weep. This is the beginning of the end.

[TordelBack]

This is the beginning of the end.

Nothing ends, Adrian.

I have a plan to mix up our own (no sarcasm, I assure  you) beloved President Higgins and the vile PotUS-elect Trump in Seth Brundle's teleporter.  As polar opposites in every respect, the resultant Tuvix character should end up perfectly average in size, intellect, morality and warmth, but have the combined popularity of both men and thus become President of the world in perpetuity.

[Hawkmumbler]

This is the beginning of the end.

Nothing ends, Adrian.

Most frequently used quote whenever I try to finish Dune...

[TordelBack]

This is the beginning of the end.

Nothing ends, Adrian.

Most frequently used quote whenever I try to finish Dune...

Wait until you try the 'Round the Bend' chapter of Jerusalem.  I've been at it for almost two weeks now and I've managed to decipher 18 pages. There are 25 more!  It's not just the American people that make bizarre decisions...

[IAMTHESYSTEM]

The 'strong man' seems to be back in favour. Putin in Russia, Erdogan in Turkey, Duterte in the Phillipines and now Trump in America. These men all seem to share the same anti establishment claim that they're the solution to complex economic and social problems and they all use, or have threatened to use violent force in order to get their way. They have tapped into a bitter anti globalist mood that has swept the world since the 2008 crash. Attempts at consensus on Social rights, climate change etc will now be abandoned for pure economic self interest which might, ironically be a form of protectionism in all but name. The belief that globalization offered hope, work and prosperity for all looks dead and in the West multiculturalism will find itself facing a resurgent Nationalism with all the potential ugliness that entails. Grim.   

[The Legendary Shark]

This is the beginning of the end.

The beginning of the end of old-fashioned corporate politics, maybe. All around the world people are growing ever more dissatisfied with their rulers and casting about for something different.

In my view, most people are looking at the broken systems to heal themselves, to somehow throw out candidates actually worth voting for. But year on year the candidates presented by the system for (s)election get ever more egregious and the choice becomes nothing more than the endorsement of the lesser of two evils. And nothing changes. The Fascistic alliance of corporate and state power increases inch by relentless inch, bombs fall like rain, our freedoms and enjoyments get chipped away inch by relentless inch. We live in an age of technological marvels and this is the best our governments can do? Wars and food banks?

You all know what I think. I think belief in government is nothing more than the most dangerous superstition, as Larken Rose puts it, and that "government" should be stripped of its mystique and revealed as the gaudy puppet show it's increasingly becoming. But it doesn't really matter much what I think. It matters what you think. Do you want to keep relying on our present system to fix itself? Because, if you are, I don't think that's going to work.

For all their obvious faults, governments have helped humanity in their transition from cave to ISS. They have been like society's scaffolding, helping us to build our worlds. But now I think the structure of society is nearing the point where it can stand on its own and that it's time to start dismantling that scaffolding. And the way things are going, if we don't take it down there's an increasing danger of it being knocked down.

From cave to ISS, in the Grand Scheme of Things, didn't take us very long. And all that which is, to our limited minds, unfathomably deep time is just an early phase of our development. Now we're gathering to move on to another phase. So, maybe this isn't the beginning of the end.

Maybe it's the end of the beginning.

[Hawkmumbler]

With all due respect Sharky, it's a little hard to care for the bigger picture when the US just elected in a man and his running mate who think gay men and women should receive electro shock therapy to "cure" them. I'll care about the logistics of democracy after the two of them are no longer a problem.

[The Legendary Shark]

The point is, there will always be people like that, who believe everyone else should do as they say and think as they think. Get rid of these two and four more are waiting to take their place. They're like Hydra.

Take away the power to enforce and Trump can believe whatever twisted bullshit he wants, he won't be able to make anyone do the same. None of them will.

[Hawkmumbler]

Self government is a nice idea Sharky, impossible to instrument upon 7 billion people.

[Theblazeuk]

Lets not go down the road of the practicalities of Sharky's system in the actual real world, it's a well worn path and it only goes in a circle.