The Political Thread

[Steve Green]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-nissan-uk-business-jobs-7000-employees-car-plant-sunderland-a7603721.html

[JayzusB.Christ]

IP: Thoughts are with you and your family.  I really hope you can get through this.

Jesus Christ, Brexit is looking more and more like a step towards Adam Susan's Britain.

[IndigoPrime]

Incidentally, before this topic naturally veers towards another subject, sincere thanks to those people on here who've offered well wishes and support. I'm a snappy, frequently sullen sod of late because of all this, but I wanted to say I am grateful for the kind words.

[Steve Green]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39133400

"The government has been defeated after the House of Lords said ministers should guarantee EU nationals' right to stay in the UK after Brexit.

The vote, by 358 to 256, is the first Parliamentary defeat for the government's Brexit bill.

However, MPs will be able to remove their changes when the bill returns to the House of Commons.

[IndigoPrime]

A good start, although there are issues. There were far superior amendments, and the wording is a major concern for hundreds of thousands, since it stipulates a legality and the HO is at present redefining who is a legal resident. (Basically, if you're not in work, tough – which means the many thousands of stay-at-home parents, the ill, retirees, and so on, could be caught in the net.) Also, it's notable the government will seek to overturn even this measure, which is simply about guaranteeing a plan for immigrants within three months, not even having the actual measures in place. Classy.

[Theblazeuk]

My wife is an EEA national too Indigo. It is hard to be civil with brexiteers when they have attacked my family.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Well, yes. It's the vagueness and intangibility of the pro-Brexit crowd's arguments that drive me mental; where as the Remain side can usually back it up with facts, figures, and very real examples like IP's.

I was thinking yesterday of how Ireland must have a very different view of the EU from the UK's (obviously this is a generalisation).  I seriously doubt that a similar referendum here would have the same results - I remember years ago Tharg himself was warning Earthlets of the Eurozone 'threat', and even the 3000AD mock-prog had EU invaders taking the place of Volgans.  Even at the time I was wondering what the Tharg in question's problem was - As far as I was concerned, my country was getting better roads, more jobs, better-protected human rights, easier international travel procedures and more money.

[TordelBack]

I was thinking yesterday of how Ireland must have a very different view of the EU from the UK's (obviously this is a generalisation).  I seriously doubt that a similar referendum here would have the same results

Then I wouldn't recommend reading the comments on TheJournal.ie or ANY thread that mentions the EU or Brexit on Boards.ie.  The right-wing termites are burrowing away there full time, undermining reality and creating the impression of 'grassroots' hatred for the evil Eurocrats from all but the political classes with their eyes on a lucrative MEP or Brussels gig:  the usual, effective, tactics. 

[JayzusB.Christ]

Thanks, TB. I shall avoid it like the plague - but then I generally do when it comes to boards.ie, except when it comes to very practical questions rather than philosophical or political ones.
Jesus wept, do they really believe Ireland can make it on its own?

[Old Tankie]

How does New Zealand manage to do it?

[Jim_Campbell]

How does New Zealand manage to do it?

Do what?

[JayzusB.Christ]

If you mean survive economically, then to be honest, I don't know. I'm no expert on economics.
But I would guess it's not by spending years building up good trading relationships with its neighbours and then throwing them away.

[IndigoPrime]

How does New Zealand manage to do it?

By welding itself to Australia from an economic standpoint, forming strategic alliances with (relatively) nearby countries, and looking forward to the likes of RCEP.

Ireland and the EU isn't directly equivalent, but then many would argue it's better, on the basis of the comprehensive nature of the agreements and trade situations in place.

[The Legendary Shark]

No country exists in a vacuum but neither does any country need to be part of an authoritarian superstate. There are myriad positions between these two extremes.

[Old Tankie]

Spot on.