Sin City

[Byron Virgo]

"The comic-book geek, long regarded with paternalistic tolerance by mainstream culture, has been cruelly undone by his latest big-screen crush, Sin City. For despite pretences of sophistication ? a Cannes premiere, a media charm offensive, and even suggestions of High Art ? this computer-generated comic-book adaptation is so steeped in fetishistic adolescent imagery and casual misogyny that it overexposes the sinister appetites of its hardcore fanbase. In fact, such is the sublime level of sexual sadism on display here (paedophilia and slut-killing are big in Sin City), and so relentless is the leering softcore depiction of prostitutes, dancers and slatternly lowlifes, that the movie unwittingly reveals the frank and masturbatory hatred of women that is fundamental to any understanding of the comic-book geek.

For most people (those who have a life and don?t actually care about the great intergalactic struggle between Marvel and DC comics) contact with comic books is generally a secondary experience. It is something filtered through the enthusiasm of publicly anointed geek figureheads, such as the director Kevin Smith and the internet fanboy supremo Harry Knowles. What these men represent, with their giddy encyclopaedic knowledge of comic lore, their tired eyes, and soft, unthreatening, roly-poly demeanours, is the cosy comfortable face of a jaded industry that?s male-dominated and entirely hostile to women, from the initial moment of production (see Elektra, Satana, Black Canary and Oracle ? action ?heroines? with enormous breasts and great boots) right through to the final point of sale"

I admit they have a point about Sin City - I only ever read one book, which was full of these overly glamerous hookers, which is a personal peeve of mine (I can remember going past Kings Cross as a kid and seeing these poor fucking girls, perhaps only a few years older than myself, standing sivvering in the pouring rain). However, once again the article makes the mistake of assuming that everyone who likes comics likes AMERICAN superhero comics. Personally I couldn't give a toss about Marvel or DC, or the 60 year-old spandex wank-fantasies they sell.

There again, if I wanted good journalism I'd go to...well, I don't know where but it wouldn't be The Times (they've always been talking out of their arse when it comes to film reviews).

[Tiplodocus]

I think I might have seen a film that had glamorous, melon-breasted hookers in it once.

Therefore all people who watch films hate women.

Eisenstein, Welles, Ford, Scorcese, Coppola are just as bad as Michael Bay.

[Art]

"see Elektra, Satana, Black Canary and Oracle ? action ?heroines? with enormous breasts and great boots"

...and, in the case of Oracle, a wheelchair and great Google skills...

[Noisybast]

"I can remember going past Kings Cross as a kid and seeing these poor fucking girls, perhaps only a few years older than myself, standing sivvering in the pouring rain"


You'd think it would be a relatively simple task to find an image of Rob Newman as "Jarvis" using Google image search, wouldn't you...?

[Dudley]

Just as not everyone who buys the Telegraph is a fossilized Lord Kitchener, so not everyone who reads comics is a violent misgynist.

However, I suspect strongly that the reviewer has a point, particularly when it comes to fans of Sin City and Frank Miller.  It's overstating (like a good journalist) to say that all or even the majority of this group will entertain fantasies about violence towards women, but I'm prepared to bet that you'd find a substantial minority much greater than you'd find in a random sample of the population.

[Byron Virgo]

"You'd think it would be a relatively simple task to find an image of Rob Newman as "Jarvis" using Google image search, wouldn't you...?"

I don't know what that means, but I'm sure it isn't complimentary.

I do know what you mean though Dud - there certainly is a large element within comics fandom that both objectifies and fetishises women. However, on the other hand this is hardly uncommon in the film or music industries, but no-one seems to be classifying all those who go to the cinema or listen to a cd as a fat, spotty onanaistic freak harbouring dangerously violent thoughts toward women.

[Wils]

I don't know what that means, but I'm sure it isn't complimentary.

One of Rob Newman's characters in Newman and Baddiel in Pieces from the early 90s. Jarvis was a creepy pederast who wore a smoking jacket, held a cigarette holder and had long black fingernails. He used to come out with lines like Noisybast quoted, followed by "Oh, Godddd!".

"...not wanting to come over all Mother Theresa. Oh Godddd! That would be *terrible*! Especially if she had a clean tea-towel on."

[Byron Virgo]

Ahh...Rob Newman's a very funny guy. I saw him at the Tricycle in Kilburn a few weeks ago and he was great there.

I couldn't really be offended by being likened to someone wearing a smoking jacket - I still remember when my father gave me my first smoking jacket when I was just a little boy...

[Lord Running Clam]

If you were to look at fans of anything like that reviewer does comic fans,then you could say anybody who likes football is a violent racist who bet up strangers cause their team lost/won.
I like what i've read of the Sin City comics and yes they can be extreme in alot of ways.But I don't read or buy them because of how they treat women.
I've read alot of comics and they haven't made me became a women beating wanker like he puts forth.
I'm sorry if this post comes across as rambleling or gibberish,it just angers me the way anybody who reads comics is portrayed.

[Carlsborg Expert]

What we should do is wrap violence against women up in a dryed up social services style documentary where there is no connection with children brought up with it and then put them under a microscope in little musty rooms to keep the whole thing a private, domecile,stuffed in a small brown paper jiffy bag, handled by underpaid, underqualified,underinterested social workers who are just in it for the money,(but for the rare few) so it never sees the light of day, for it shall not darken our intellects ever that this gracious English speaking land is full of misogyny, domestic violence,pederasts and small time tyrants squeezing the love from any individual aching to know what love truly might be,as he or she ventures forth into a maturity tainted by the fact they struggle with the human condition that is found in all of us,by this very nature someone as equally capabale of such thoughts, could judge them.



I reckon.

Bravo on nearing George Orwells double think nightmare.

[Carlsborg Expert]

....And not put it into the form of art or puppetry of charactors that are pleasing to the and not the feckin groin, so as to follow with the heart and the mind.

I have heard it said that cartoonesque creations reach a deeper part of the emotions than just solid statistics and documents.Albeit a little romantacising , done well a purer incription of how we feel about certain situations is sustained in ilustration alongside documented data.

For years we have done this. Through depictions of gods to heroes back to gods and martyrs,the thing thats occured to me is the person is blaming the fans and not the writers.Or is it a give/take/give, circle?
Chicken''n' egg hinduism?

Purely sporting on comicbook people is a big mistake and there is no leg (IMO)for this person to stand on.Where is their back up evidence? The fact we dont use asthetically pleasing modes of dress and hygiene. We use oils instead of Charlie/stud/Hugo boss?Dont get me stared on the injustices involved with all that palava.
Yeah.I like to trewat myself once in a while and smell the best anybody has ever smell.But I do dogging in the car park because of it.In the "real world" the Times correspondent is coming from is a world where women love "cock".And they,re gonna proove it.
Asthetically pleasing Backstreet boys and hordes of hero worshipping thirteen year olds,thrusting thier way to the front of the queue to be impregnated by these gallant muscular, talentless(btw)pop behemoths.
This is not their excuse for peodaphilia tho. Its comicbook readers,right?
I mean we joke about the funbags an that but its in our work its an entertainment.One of the purewst form of enterainment plausable.No human being is being exploited and jut because Hollywood wants to make a dirtload of cash on it,I'll be watching same as any other aspiring movie goer.Tar me with that too.
More to add on this Ill promise you.

[Carlsborg Expert]

er..and correct.

skullcrushing headache !

[Dudley]

Just back from seeing it.  It's shallow as a puddle, but beautiful in many places - imagery like I've never seen.

[Mudcrab]

Probably falling into his small categories somewhere, I'd love to set Marv on that "journalist".

Geek... Kevin Smith... male-orientated... mysogynist... fanboy... masturbatory hatred

I mean, was that written by some program that shoves together all the tired cliches that journos get out whenever they want to turn a review a comic-based film into some tirade against the people that read comics?

I completely agree with the clam, this guy is despicable. Mind you, aren't all journalists are amphetamine addicted, chain smoking child-molesters, hanging around school playgrounds with their sick slimy voyeuristic papparazzi counterparts.

There, that's the balance redressed somewhat. Apologies to the journos who post here, you're good guys, it's not true what they're saying in the chatroom.

[sexappeal]

I havn't read any thing of sin city and i barely know frank miller, can any one explain the story?