2000 AD Online Forum

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First and foremost apologise to Jim Campbell for butchering the lovely logo he created for my Completely Self Absorbed 2000ad re-read posts! Thanks and sorry Jim!

I've not done a 'thing' on the forum for a while. In the past I've done reviews tracking a couple of 'Prog Slogs', detailed the making of my nerd cave and run countless, endless voting comps... which I still dream of getting back to... one day, one day and I've been pondering doing something else for a while now, but didn't have an idea.

Then a couple of weeks ago I watched a couple of videos from the brilliant Youtube channel Cartoonist Kayfabe (https://www.youtube.com/@CartoonistKayfabe/videos)... side note if you are looking for a good YouTube channel that details with brilliant and intelligent analysis of a fantastic range of comics from folks MUCH smarter and more knowledgeable than me AND you've exhausted Strange Brain Parts (https://www.youtube.com/@StrangeBrainParts), you won't find a better channel ... end of side note. They cover 'The Best 100 Comics of the 20th Century' as selected by The Comics Journal. Well worth watching:

100 Best Comic of the Century - Part 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVtWBQ-ZVIs) 

100 Best Comic of the Century - Part 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwSZOB_Vlr4)

Now as ever with this type of thing it was in equal parts fascinating and infuriating. It flagged all sorts of comics I simply didn't know and ranked comics in a incredibly different way than I would, I mean this was from the Comics Journal after all! It also counted all sorts of things I wouldn't even count as comics. I mean I have nothing against editorial cartoons but they aren't sequential so they shouldn't be included surely... yakkerty splakerty, blah blah blah.

Same old same old with this type of thing from me really. If it's a critical, editorial piece like those above there's always a singular bias that will mean it's 100 miles from what I would include. If it's based on a popular vote then they become a little predictable and neutered with the same old 'classics' that I don't always like ranking far too high. I mean you can't deny either approach, they will define their boundaries as they see fit, popular votes will be driven by a hivemind and gravitate to the safer options. Nature of the beast.

So I sat there after really enjoying the list with the nagging feeling of 'Well my list would be nothing. NOTHING like that..."

But what would it be, my list that is... and it niggled away at me. So in a quiet moment I decided to set things to rights and as a playful exercise I decided to throw my list together, just for fun. I did... and of course it was incredibly difficult. It's not an even playing surface after all. Comics I've just read will have a much higher ranking than one's I've not read for ages... or very possibly a much lower placing as my memory has elevated my appreciation for a series I've not read for ages. Comics series or runs I've not read for 10 or more years were read by a very different person, with very different reading needs than the person who read the comics they did just a couple of months ago. What the heck I did it anyway.

Then I twiddled with it.

I remembered stuff I'd not included

I moved things around

Then I twiddled some more...

... then I got fed up messing with it, it was never going to be finished until I said ENOUGH ALREADY it's finished. So I said just that, it's finished. And I had my list. Not anyone else's, no bugger is going to agree with my list (not even me the next time I look at it!), but I had my list.

And I looked at it and wondered why it was my list and what the heck to do with it. Then I remembered you lovely lot. For the last 15 years this has been my favourite place on the internet. The place I love to whittier, not just about 2000ad, but comics in general. The forum has become almost a journal of my comics reading and fandom, so of course I knew what to do with it. I'd bored the bejeezus out of you lot and share it with you. Even if there are only like what... 20-30 of us still posting regularly, so what if only a tiny subset of those folks (or even just me!) was interested in this nonsense. What else could I do but post it here?

Well actually rather than just post the list I could try to explain why the list was like it was. What were the factors that determined what comics I love and recommend to others (or not!). So I decided to see if I could write up entries for each, not to try to recommend things, or get folks to agree with me, no, that was never going to happen. Rather this is done as much so I could work out what it is I love about comics, and the particular ones I adore. It's a natural extension of the endless poorly written guff I write about comics here. My ultimate examination of the comic I love and why I do.

So here we are. I've got a couple of introductory posts to set all this up and then 133 write ups of comic runs (look I'll explain that in my next post!) with a few other 'bonuses' (not quite sure who will see more as a bonus!). I've written the first 10 as a test that I enjoy doing this enough to justify screaming into the void and I do.

Read along and get infuriated with this very self-absorbed list, comment, disagree, scream at me with gusto... or just ignore all this and move on, up to you. Me, well I'm going for it anyway.

Welcome to all 133 runs in my Completely self-absorbed Top 100 Comic Runs you need to read.

Looking forward to it Colin!

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Rules / guidelines / notes

So what limits / rules / decisions have I made in creating this list and the posts that will detail the entries?

1. 100 is an arbitrary number so ignore it!

When making this list I started just throwing runs / series into a pile in no order with the thought when I ordered them I'm just use the top 100... then I decided that top 100s use an utterly arbitrary number that happens to end in a zero and why the heck shouldn't I include all 133 that made my long list.

2. A comic run can be:

• Any series that is finite, ended or with a planned ending
• Any run of issues that can be defined in an ongoing series by any metric. Typically by the members of the creative team, so Such 'n' such run on Batcomic. BUT I can define that anyway I choose, but try to be as consistent in how I do that. I've pretty much defined this by creators, not just plucked issue numbers I happen to like.
• A single issue that stands alone if its designed to be a stand alone
• A series or strip in an anthology (important for a 2000ad fan!)
• A run of a series of strips in an anthology as per 2b, that might have had multiple creators (hello Judge Dredd!)
• A newspaper strip. These are sequential comics. Single panel gag series are not. So say 'Peanuts' could be on the list (it's not, I've not read enough), but 'Farside' can't, however good it is.
• Maybe a series that defines a creator's works of a particular type across a number of different titles (I'll come to that one...)

3. Consider the whole of that run as defined above. So if I'm saying (again not on the list) Walt Simonson's Thor if I happen to love the first 20 issues I need to balance that with how good the whole run (or run to date for unfinished strips) and so if I hated the last 20 issues of that run I need to take that into account when I do my placing. This is particularly important later in the list!

4. I'll stick to the list I have now and be damned regardless of changes of mind. However:

• I might add addendums to entries if I happen to re-read a series I've placed on the list and that re-read has changed my opinion of that series.
• I can add series I read for the first time while writing up this list but that can't change the existing order. So if I have '87. Comic series X' and I read something that I rate as much as that I can add '87a. Comic Series Y' that I happen to have read for the first time.

5. Don't worry about re-reading things I've not read for ages. I haven't the time and there's too many comics to read already. It's fine that some entries will be from addled memories and thus contain errors. This is a list based on my gut feeling in October to 2023.

6. This is a list of my favourites so don't worry about it. These don't have to be good comics, this is about what these comics mean to me.

So given that I'm going to try not to be too defensive. I mean I will be but I need to just accept this is my list of favourites. So I don't need to justify why anything is on the list BUT it's fun and interesting to me to try to work out why things are on the list and in their relative position so I will explain entries and placing AND... well see next post.

Important Note for this one: I REALLY want other folks to disagree (or agree that's cool too) with me and explain why I'm wrong, or unfair, or over-rate a series/run. Getting others' thoughts on the comics I love is half the fun.

7. I'll not publish the list now just to give the ...ahem... excitement for folks following this thread of a countdown. BUT:

If someone asks if series / run X is on the list I will say yes or no and if no maybe give some explanation (see next post). Cos it will be fun if we get little side conversations.

It will also be fun if folks add their lists, or top picks at least as well to compare notes.

8. I'm going to try to post two entries a week... let's see how I get on and fingers cross I can keep this up and the board lasts this long!

9. This is my self absorbed list so any rules / guidelines and there to be broken on a whim!

This sounds good! Looking forward to it.

Is Top 10 in the top ten?

Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 30 October, 2023, 02:14:41 PMIs Top 10 in the top ten?

Well it would be lovely but I've never read it (came out in my Wilderness Years)

1963 is suitable low in the list though!

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 30 October, 2023, 03:12:40 PM

Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 30 October, 2023, 02:14:41 PMIs Top 10 in the top ten?

Well it would be lovely but I've never read it (came out in my Wilderness Years)

So, already this project has given you an opportunity (to correct a terrible blemish on your comic-reading career).  :D

Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 30 October, 2023, 03:49:14 PM

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 30 October, 2023, 03:12:40 PM

Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 30 October, 2023, 02:14:41 PMIs Top 10 in the top ten?

Well it would be lovely but I've never read it (came out in my Wilderness Years)

So, already this project has given you an opportunity (to correct a terrible blemish on your comic-reading career).  :D

Speaking of all this...

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Considerations of what's not on the list

Well most importantly I can only rate comics I've read and there are so SO many comics I imagine would be fantastic that I've simply not read. So for example I've not read, or read enough of the following and so they won't of course get a place on the list:

100 Bullets
Preacher
Ducks
Ghost World
Starman
Blankets
Black Hole
Fables
Astro City
Chris Ware's stuff
Jason's stuff
Scott Pilgram
Blacksad
Kate Beaton
Grandeville

I know, I know some of them are shocking and there will be gazillion more. I've actually bought a couple of things on the basis of quickly having rattled off some examples of acknowledged classics I've not read. There's going to be some brilliant comics not here just cos I've never read um. Feel free to ask and I'll let you know if a personal fav of yours will or won't be on the list - I'll not tell you where if they are.

There are also a number of classics that appear on numerous lists of this kind that I have read and don't rate as high as many. I will be covering a few of these, as this is about what I understand about what I appreciate in comics. What I don't like, or at least rate as highly as many, is just as interesting to me as what I like. I'll dot these entries throughout my posts and expect some violent reactions to some of these... well if anyone bothers to read this nonsense.

There are some absolute doozies on that list of runs I don't appreciate as much as most and I can't wait to write some of those up. Not to fling mud, but to break it down and hopefully get some reactions and alternative takes from folks who justifiably love those comics.

I've just written the first of those entries and it was pretty good fun. It's a bit of a soft one to warm me up to getting this type of post right and fair!

AND next post after all this introductory babbling we start the list with the 133th comics run you need to read... See you in the morning...

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 30 October, 2023, 07:17:12 PM133th

Eleventy-first?

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 30 October, 2023, 07:17:12 PMPreacher

That's an interesting one - if I hadn't been reading the Megazine in the late 90s, I don't know if I'd have gotten into it.

Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 30 October, 2023, 08:08:04 PM

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 30 October, 2023, 07:17:12 PM133th

Eleventy-first?

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 30 October, 2023, 07:17:12 PMPreacher

That's an interesting one - if I hadn't been reading the Megazine in the late 90s, I don't know if I'd have gotten into it.

I've recently picked up a full set for bobbins from Facebook BUT it'll be a good while yet before it gets to the top of the pile.

 Another victim of my Wilderness Years.

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Number - 133 Copperhead

Keywords: Unfinished; 2000ad; Sci-Fi; needs a reread.

Creators:
Writer -  Jay Faerber
Art - Scott Godlewski; Drew Moss
Colours - Ron Riley

Publisher: Image Comics

No. issues: 19 (unfinished)
Date of Publication: September 2014 to June 2018

Last read: 2018

Copperhead is a 'Space Western' created by Jay Faeber and artist Scott Godlewski, Drew Moss taking over the art from issue 14 until the series went on seemingly indefinite hiatus in June 2018, something I'll come back to. It's a great, character driven, action adventure sci-fi comics.

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Copyright - them what created it...

The story follows sheriff Clara Bronson's adventures in the alien town of Copperhead in 24th Century. It combines two of my favourite things 2000adesque (yes that is a word!) sci-fi and western tropes. Clara arrives in the titular western town seemingly escaping her past, with her son, but she has intrigue surrounding her. She's tough, no nonsense and quickly makes an impression, even if not to the liking of many. She has an initially uneasy relationship with 'Boo' her deputy and has a past that will come back to haunt her.

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Copyright - them what created it...

The first arc establishes the world as Bronson starts a murder investigation and other mysteries are set up for future adventures.

The town of Copperhead plays with many western tropes, it's a hard bitten mining town, run by a rich and none too trustworthy tycoon. It's hot, dusty, on the edges of the 'civilised' universe and full of mystery and secrets. Aliens take the roles of displaced and untrusted native americans and hicks.  It really leans hard into those tropes and uses them to wonderful effect.

It's truly the perfect western, just with aliens, spaceships and lasers and in doing that plays so well into so many of 2000ad stylings. Lawless being the obvious and easy comparison and if we get into this list you'll see why that's something I love. And this forms a great part of why the series makes this list. I really enjoy a 2000ad story washed up elsewhere. I mean I adore 2000ad - it's my favourite comic and so when a story that would fit so well in the Galaxy's Greatest is found in other areas of comics I gravitate to it instinctively. Probably elevating the story in my mind more than it would be if it was in its natural home (to me) of Tharg's kingdom. The little differences of a 2000ad story published in a different environment add something, nuances and pacing we don't get in 2000ad's 6 page thrillpowered blasts. That really appeals to me.

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Copyright - them what created it...

Copperhead is however a great comic in its own right as well. Using the western tropes to make characters and setting immediately compelling. Bronson, Boo have a fantastic relationship. The setting provides tension and those mysteries I've mentioned so much already, draw you in and keep you invested and pull you into the story and its fantastic cast of western cliches, put western cliches done so well you don't care. My memories have it as a well paced, exciting and fantastically realised. Oh and the art of Scott Godlewski, who reminds me so much of the brilliant Kevin Nowlan is wonderful. You taste the dust in your mouth, you feel the heat of the arid landscapes as you engage with characters he relates to you so well with both fresh yet comfortable designs and wonderful character acting.

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Copyright - them what created it...

Drew Moss who takes over on the series when it returned from its first hiatus, after the first two arcs and picks up really well. I mean he's not quite as good, but is a perfectly chosen replacement.

So why isn't this higher on the list. Well like so many series I will talk about I do wonder if it would be when I re-read (and this is scheduled somewhere on my all too long reading list...well spreadsheet) and it has everything I love about genre sci-fi. As it is though it's not left an indelible mark on me. There's no emotional connection I remember beyond it doing a type of comics I love very well. It doesn't especially offer anything new, it doesn't innovate, or cast fresh light onto what the medium can be and offer me as the reader. It's comfortable, good, possibly even great, comics.

Also it just stops. Scott Godlewski couldn't prioritise it after issue 12. Jay Faerber handed it to Drew Moss to finish when it went on hiatus for the second time in 2018. Drew Moss has apparently worked on it since, but its not been finished and thus just ends. No conclusion for the characters, story and some mysteries remain unanswered. A real shame, and something that will haunt a number of the comics on this list. As a reader you invest in these stories and we deserve an ending when promised one. We deserve it, but alas not as much as the creators deserve to make a living, or satisfy their creative needs and as such many creator owned titles have this rod to bar.

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Copyright - them what created it...

For those reasons it can't be any higher and has the dubious honour of being the first comic on my list. The one that's had least impact on me on the list of comics that I really like... and it gets to be the one I start to learn how to do this list with. Curious honour indeed!

Still Copperhead makes the list and as such is a really good comics, you should look into if the idea of a 2000ad sci-fi western with great characters, fantastic art and high adventure is up your alley and as such.

Where to find it

There are four trades (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=copperhead+comics&crid=1LJWKEZL3QO63&sprefix=copperhead+comics%2Caps%2C71&ref=nb_sb_noss)  that collect the whole series, apart from issue 19 to date. These can be found digitally on whatever Comixology has becomes

I'm sure with a bit of effort you could also track down the original floppies without too much difficulty or expense, though as it's never sold buckets it might take a bit of patience.

Learn more

Copperhead didn't set the world a light and as such there is not a great deal of information about it out there, beyond the standards. These are the ones I've found

obligatory Wikipaedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copperhead_(Image_Comics))
Image Comics page (https://imagecomics.com/comics/series/copperhead)

Cover Gallery (https://www.comics.org/series/82727/covers/) from Grand Comics Database - which actually give a really nice feel for the series.

You can find a smattering of reviews from the typical places with a simple Google search if you fancy too. Nothing too in depth alas.

Wow Colin this is your 1st of at least 133 posts.
That is a great overview and much more than was I expecting. If you keep this up (and I have no doubts that you won't) I will look forward to each and everyone like waiting for my weekly prog to download.

I'm sure with rundowns like this you will tempt me to splash the cash on something or another.

P.S. how many times will you hope to post/add a week?

Thanks Trooper McFad.

I'm still working all this out but I've got 10 more banked (9 more entries and a Not on the list post which aren't quite as fully developed) and I'm hoping to keep a pace of 2 per week.

Let's see how it goes...

Looking forward to seeing these

Good luck

Was just looking to see if this had appeared in one of the Image Humble Bundle deals as it sounds great. Doesn't look like it has though so it'll have to join the long to-buy list.

Seconded that this is a really good overview and a really interesting read, nice one Colin! Super in-depth and importantly tells us why you think its worth reading.
The fact that this one just stops means I won't look it out, but everything else you've written makes me want to, which is a good thing.
Looking forward to seeing what else you have lined up. Bit of a shame in a way no Preacher, because I think thats one people will have opinions on as its aged rather badly. Hoping to be introduced to some new awesome stuff!

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 31 October, 2023, 01:05:59 PMBit of a shame in a way no Preacher, because I think thats one people will have opinions on as its aged rather badly.

Don't say that I just bought the lot! Still excited to read it having heard so much. The reprints in Vol. 4 (was it???) are much closer to the top of the pile but don't think I'll read those now and wait until the full set finally gets there... finally.

Yeah I do hope amongst then more commonly know stuff there a few surprises for folks and stuff some won't of heard of,  or otherwise skipped. I know my blind spots are many and varied hence the call for folks to add their lists, top 10s or whatever.

It also means I sometimes wonder if I've judged 2000ad more harshly. There's still a good chunk on the list but didn't want to flood it with strips from Tharg's Thrillbubble as that won't be too interesting as folks have heard me whitter  on endlessly about that stuff before. BUT on the otherhand its not a reflective list if I exclude them. That said (and spoilers ... kinda!) there are more 2000ad strips than either Marvel of DC (well if you exclude Vertigo... if you include Vertigo I think DC might just top it).

ANYWAY! Thanks for all the positive feedback. I genuninely wasn't sure if anyone would read this stuff, let alone comment on it so that's super nice. Let's see if you can keep up the enthusiasm as I go on, and on, and on... and on!

Quote from: sintec on 31 October, 2023, 12:18:34 PMWas just looking to see if this had appeared in one of the Image Humble Bundle deals as it sounds great. Doesn't look like it has though so it'll have to join the long to-buy list.

Its defo been in one in the past - or at least the first trade was. If Image do another it might well be included, or might just slip to under the radar now, which would be a shame.

I do shout out Humble Bundle in a further post as they are such a great way to try stuff out.

Posting firstly to howl, DROKK, has it been FIVE YEARS without Copperhead? I reread is long overdue.
Secondly, banger thread Colin, looking forward to how this pans out!

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 31 October, 2023, 01:22:01 PMThe reprints in Vol. 4 (was it???)

Preacher was Megs 3.39 to 3.63.

Volume 4 had all sorts of Tooth-reprint, but the non-Tooth reprint was Lazarus Churchyard, Hellboy (Seed Of Destruction) and Scarlet Traces. Perhaps they are in your top one hundred and thirty-threeth?

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 31 October, 2023, 04:30:05 PMPosting firstly to howl, DROKK, has it been FIVE YEARS without Copperhead? I reread is long overdue.
Secondly, banger thread Colin, looking forward to how this pans out!

Had a feeling you'd read it Zac. Glad to see you here... as for banger... I'm so bangin'!

Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 31 October, 2023, 05:53:46 PM

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 31 October, 2023, 01:22:01 PMThe reprints in Vol. 4 (was it???)

Volume 4 had all sorts of Tooth-reprint, but the non-Tooth reprint was Lazarus Churchyard, Hellboy (Seed Of Destruction) and Scarlet Traces. Perhaps they are in your top one hundred and thirty-threeth?

I've not read enough Lazarus Churchyard. Scarlet Traces doesn't make it and Hellboy... well there will be a post about why its not on the list.

I can feel folks gathering the pitchforks and lighting the torches as I type...

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 31 October, 2023, 01:05:59 PMPreacher ... [has] aged rather badly

I don't want to redirect this thread off onto a massive tangent but... do tell? It's been a while since I read it.

(Colin I really enjoyed your write up and I've ordered the first book)

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 31 October, 2023, 07:11:37 PMI've not read enough Lazarus Churchyard.

There's not all that much of it, IIRC. I think the Meg commissioned a new single episode story to act as a coda to the whole thing once they'd reprinted the previously-published stuff, but the collection I have is a reasonably slender volume. Obviously, Ellis has become problematic retrospectively, but the series fizzes with imaginative ideas and D'israeli delivers the goods (as, it would turn out over the next few decades, he always does) with his usual combination of energy and thoughtfulness. Plus, let's be honest, the basic concept of: "What if someone crossed Andrew Eldritch with a T-1000?" is solid gold. :)

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 31 October, 2023, 10:38:29 PMObviously, Ellis has become problematic retrospectively...

I was not aware of the particulars of this particular development, but I am not particularly surprised.

Quote from: Le Fink on 31 October, 2023, 07:27:34 PM

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 31 October, 2023, 01:05:59 PMPreacher ... [has] aged rather badly

I don't want to redirect this thread off onto a massive tangent but... do tell? It's been a while since I read it.

(Colin I really enjoyed your write up and I've ordered the first book)

Just my opinion rather than established fact, although I don't think I'm alone in feeling this, but its mainly because its so 90s. Stuffed full of homophobia, mansplaining of feminism, 90 gross out stuff that isn't funny nowdays plus Custer himself is, in retrospect, a hugely toxic and unlikeable character.
That said I still think its an essential read for a comics fan, but when I re-read it a few years back I didn't enjoy it half as much as I did in the 90s. And the ending still sucks!
It might be an interesting debate, but on another thread! Stoked for Colin's next suggestion.

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 01 November, 2023, 10:13:43 AMIt might be an interesting debate, but on another thread! Stoked for Colin's next suggestion.

This is defo the kinda debate this thread is designed to encourage. My list is just the flavouring!

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Number - 132 Nexus

Keywords: Ongoing; Sci-Fi; 80s indie

Creators:
Writer -  Mike Baron
Art - Steve Rude and so many others

Publisher: Capital Comics then First Comics (ironically, well them not being the first to publish it), then onto Dark Horse, there's very possibly been others

No. issues: LOTS! The longest series had 74 issues, but there are a load of others. There are well over 100 Nexus comics and trades.

Date of Publication: 1981 to date - still ongoing I believe

Last read: 2021

Well I'm very glad I didn't start with this one as it's a biggie, or could become so I guess this sets out the stall, in that these posts will not provide a comprehensive overview of series and will instead be a very brief summary and centre on my impressions.

That said, Nexus is a sci-fi comic with Horatio Hellpop in the lead role, he is Nexus of the title. A man commissioned, or forced by... well you'll need to read it to get into that... to execute mass murders around the galaxy.  Well it's kinda centred around him, he provides the backbone of the series, a series with many limbs!

(https://i.imgur.com/DwIwmOE.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...and maybe the publishers

It quickly develops beyond that and opens its scope to deal with Ylum (short of Asylum) a moon on which he settles and opens to refugees, initially from the despots he kills. Creators Mike Baron and Steve Rude quickly become more interested in the politics and inhabitants of Ylum, its conflicts with Earth, its colonies and various galactic powers. It becomes a political thriller, deals with war and conflict, delves into madness, has a long running love story and plays with ideas of legacy... oh yeah and archeology... It's a lot!

(https://i.imgur.com/jMN0AY7.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...and maybe the publishers

The series touches on many ideas and issues. Horatio struggles with the ethical questions his enforced task asks. Feels the cost of trying to reject his 'obligations'. The political situation in Ylam is complex and well developed, in a space opera type way at least. Relationships evolve and change. It doesn't shy away from complex situations but balances the need to entertain, with those ideas and issues and doesn't fall back on simple, or singular solutions. It presents the reader with the complexities and avoids preaching a prescribed answer.

There's far more going on in the series to summarise here and that's both its blessing and its curse. It clearly means a lot to its creators Mike Baron and Steve Rude. As you might imagine given they returned to it time and again over its 40 year history. As you might also imagine their interests have developed and changed significantly over that time and so therefore has the comic. Sure there are core themes and ideas that it returns to, but it refuses to remain static and constantly evolves.

This is of course a good thing, it makes the series a fascinating read. Read as I have however, in 8 Dark Horse Omnibus, in a compacted time therefore, it makes for a restless, inconsistent experience I never fully get to grips with. That's fantastic in many ways; its restless exploration of ideas is to be lauded. 

(https://i.imgur.com/G5TTXNB.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...and maybe the publishers

While the series will forever be associated with Steve Rude's beautiful clean and poised art, and he with it, its history has seen the art of many other creators. That adds to the sense of inconsistency the series has, for both good and ill.

Add to that the numerous ways the story has been told. There was a core series that ran for 80 issues from 1981 to 1991, numerous spin off mini-series, lots of crossovers, even a newspaper strip. This comic has been to places and done many things. Though the Wikipedia, linked to below, gives Mike Baron's 'canonical publication list', frankly you can't go far wrong with the omnibuses I've read. They do include a number of backup stories and spin-offs that flesh out the world - Mike Baron seems particularly keen on the warrior for hire Judah Maccabee - which if I'm honest actually just dilutes things for me.

(https://i.imgur.com/o87nOxC.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...and maybe the publishers

When Nexus is good it's really, really good. It's restlessness, something I'm normally very attracted to, here only serves to hamper it a little and I find it drifts a little too much and moves focus from the things that I'm most interested in a little too often. That means for others it might work more, or the things it drifts to might be of more interest to them than the main story of Ylum that fascinates me and that is why it's not higher on MY list. This is of course a real strength of the series. It will offer different things to different readers and it is pretty consistent in story style, if not theme and art. All I can really say is it's good comics and well, well worth exploring and hopefully you will find wonderful artefacts to fascinate you.

(https://i.imgur.com/KGqo1Rg.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...and maybe the publishers

Where to find it

There's a lot to dig through and various single issues pop up on a semi-regular basis on aftermarket sites, you know the one.

As I've said above however you can't go too wrong with the omnibus - available from all good comic shops and summaries of each (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=nexus+omnibus&i=stripbooks&crid=1BH4VPQPR9KEH&sprefix=nexus+omnibus%2Cstripbooks%2C62&ref=nb_sb_noss_1) are available from that big online seller.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipaedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexus_(comics))
 
 from Grand Comics Database - of the 'main' First series

[url=https://youtu.be/6_fl5zhHL1U?t=670]This video (https://www.comics.org/series/3108/covers/?page=1%5B/url) , bookmarked at 11.31 mins has a neat brief, surface level summary. It's from the brilliant 'Strange Brian Parts' a YouTube channel well worth checking out and one I suspect I'll be using a lot here.

Nice article (https://comicsalliance.com/mike-baron-steve-rude-nexus-omnibus-review-dark-horse/) from Comics Alliance, even if some of the pictures have gone.

As ever though, a quick search on that there Google will get you lots more info and reviews of particular volumes to see which ones you like the sound of.

Loved Nexus Omnibus 1 when I chanced upon it in a clearance section of Manchester FB...gods, 10 years ago? I really must get back to read the rest, another good shout!

Copperhead's lack of conclusion is frustrating and quite often a thing at Image. Probably in comics in general, TBH. It's not like 2000 AD lacks strips that just stop. (Hello, Brass Sun!)

Of other mentions, I have the Lazarus Churchyard trade and like it a lot (despite Ellis), and am very surprised Hellboy isn't on the list. (Although I do think the Mignolaverse has transitioned from something tight, focused and wonderful to something that is... let's say 'variable'. And the end of BPRD was risible.)

Preacher... yeah. I have all the HCs. It is always on a knife edge of those books I'll keep and sell. Right now, it always just tips to 'safe'. But it's a really hard book to enjoy these days, and I suspect it'll be on the eBay list when I need more room.

Nexus: I've never heard of that. Looks like it could be a good one – and a cert if it rocks up on Humble.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 02 November, 2023, 10:53:00 AMCopperhead's lack of conclusion is frustrating and quite often a thing at Image. Probably in comics in general, TBH. It's not like 2000 AD lacks strips that just stop. (Hello, Brass Sun!)

This will crop up again and soon. I then scanned through the rest of the list and realised it only really happens once after that (and its not Image), well not counting things that simply haven't reached a conclusion yet by design.

I do wonder if a number of other comics would be on the list if they had continued. So Autumnlands, Mudman, Invisible Republic... just as a few examples that immediately spring to mind, there will be others. Have to respect the fact that if something isn't earning creators a living, or satisfying them creatively then they can't be continued. A little more transpirancy would be good, but I guess often folks fully intend to get back to things but things drift and get forgotten. It does put you off taking risks on title however which becomes a negative feedback cycle!

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 02 November, 2023, 09:31:21 AMLoved Nexus Omnibus 1 when I chanced upon it in a clearance section of Manchester FB...gods, 10 years ago? I really must get back to read the rest, another good shout!

I knew you'd read some Zac, must admit thought it was more. Glad you enjoyed the first Omnibus, there is a lot of good stuff in the later volumes as well.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 131 - Shade the Changing Man

Keywords: Vertigo; needs a reread; horror (maybe), Peter Milligan

Creators:
Writer -  Peter Milligan
Art - Chris Bachalo and a host of others
Colours - Daniel Vozzo and others

Publisher: DC latterly under the Vertigo imprint

No. issues: 70
Date of Publication: 1990 - 1996

Last read: 2010

Really simple one this, a comic I loved as it came out (well up to issue 47 as I'd stopped reading comics for sometime beyond that) preferred it to Sandman and the like, and would be a top 20 comic if that experience was my last BUT I re-read the lot sometime ago and some of the characters (hi Lenny) REALLY grated and so it dropped in my estimations, but is definitely due a re-read as I suspect I'd re-evaluate again.

(https://i.imgur.com/yB6mziY.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...well and DC Comics I guess

Peter Milligan was recruited by Karen Berger in the 'second wave' of the British invasion. Much like Grant Morrison had done with Animal Man, for his first major work he plucked an obscure character from DC's D list and revitalised them in simply incredible ways.

Pete Milligan chose to re-imagine Shade the Changing Man, a character created by Steve Ditko for DC in 1977, the character had a very brief series, which fell victim to DC's Implosion in 1978. After that they made the odd appearance, principally as a member of the second Suicide Squad during the 80s. Pete Milligan picked up the character and well ran with the concept in incredible ways.

(https://i.imgur.com/xyAqncl.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...well and DC Comics I guess

His story focuses on Rac Shade (well it kinda does, I'll come back to that) tricked into leaving his home world of Meta to Earth, his body left behind and forcing him to inhabit the body of Troy Grenzer, a serial killer about to be executed. He initially has to fight The American Scream, a manifestation of America's unconscious nightmares and trauma... or something like that...He tackles these manifestations apparently using his M-Vest (the source of the original Shade's powers) to channel the reality warping 'Madness' of Meta. This storyline dominates the first 18 issues of the series.

The second major phase, as I see it, between 19-50 is the real heart of the book in my mind, the Kathy / Lenny / Shade years. Freed from the constraints of the American Scream storyline Milligan uses shorter stories to explore the relationship between its three main characters. The aforementioned Shade of course. Kathy George, a woman whose parents were murdered by Troy Grenzer, remember Shade inhabits his body, and who has been in a relationship with Shade since the early issues. Finally Lenny Shapiro, an artist who joins Shade and Kathy on their travels across America during the 'American Scream Years'.

(https://i.imgur.com/UCo47Qj.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...well and DC Comics I guess

This period of the comic is when it really lets loose, well in terms of the ideas it covers, it's not as if the early issues have any lack of imagination and creative marvels! These issues, focused on the love triangle between the three, allows the series to explore typical Milligan themes such as identity really, really well.

The final phase of the story deals with the fallout of issue 50, I'm not sure I will be avoiding spoilers during these write ups, but this one feels pretty significant, if you've not read the series its fundamental, if you have you know what that is. Suffice to say the trio are no longer together and Shade takes some pretty drastic steps to deal with the pain, loss and the trauma he has been through, while coping with the madness that inhabits him. This last phase is traditionally not as fondly remembered as the first 50, but I found them pretty damned good.

(https://i.imgur.com/rR0r47J.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...well and DC Comics I guess

While the series was one of the ongoing DC titles that helped launch Vertigo Comics out of the 'Bergerverse' (The 'mature reader' comics edited by Karen Berger) it often feels like the forgotten gem of that bunch, Sandman, Animal Man, SwampThing, Hellblazer etc. That's a shame as it's better than most those titles - which provides a hint of a series of posts I'll do here about very well regarded titles that don't make this list and why they don't. It has a small cult following, when compared to the small cult following all those titles have! And fans that know it really seem to dig it and for very good reason. These are bold, imaginative comics that really examine interesting themes and ideas with creative freedom those other titles don't stretch to. It's a great read and one I very much look forward to re-evaluating and wonder how much higher it will place on this sort of list when I do.

No small part of why this series is so good is Chris Bachalo's stunning art. While he only draws around half the issues, he does the bulk of the early run and his visuals are so closely associated with the series. In the first year or so you see his art and confidence just blossom in front of your eyes. Once past that he manages the incredible juggling act of capturing the very intimate human side of the characters, with the psychedelic madness of the world they inhabit. It's astonishing work and makes clear why he became the superstar artist he did.

(https://i.imgur.com/B2KhkRB.png)
Copyright - them what created it...well and DC Comics I guess

The other artists that come onto the title, and there are some big names, Bryan Talbot, Brendan McCarthy, Colleen Doran, our own Mighty Yeowell, Philip Bond, Sean Phillips, Mark Buckingham amongst them, all provide good, even great, work. None of them however are quite able to replace Bachalo as the artist who gets this book, its characters and whose stunning work defines it.

So yeah, Shade the Changing Man, while not as well remembered, and certainly not as discussed as many Vertigo titles, in many ways does more to define what Vertigo will do at its best than any other. It certainly helped open up my mind to what comics could do and the thrilling way they could explore complex and imitate themes without holding back on the creative wonder the medium is so perfect for.

A series if you've not read and enjoy Peter Milligan's stuff you should really, really check it out. If you have and like me haven't read it for a while, maybe it's time to dust them off and remember why it had such an impact on my teenage brain!

Where to find it

Available trades (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=shade+the+changing+man+milligan&crid=1KCQBDFZB1CSH&sprefix=shade+the+changing+man+milligan%2Caps%2C61&ref=nb_sb_noss_2) covering the first 18 issues.

And I think that's it alas. Kinda strange that such a great series hasn't got the reprints it deserves (that I'm aware of) and plays a big part into why it's not as well remembered as many of its 'lesser' cousins.

That said you can pick but the floppies pretty easily and cheaply for just that reason. I've seen complete sets going for £1 an issue when they do show up. If you've not read them its well, well worth a little patience to do just that.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shade,_the_Changing_Man_(Vertigo))

 Nice write-up (https://atomicjunkshop.com/comics-you-should-own-shade-the-changing-man/)

Interesting and very focused looked at a specific issue Shade #19 (https://www.thegutterreview.com/digging-up-the-bones-of-father-christmas-on-shade-the-changing-man-19/) which tuches on why the series is so good.

Eruditorum Press (https://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/i-loved-you-and-you-killed-me-book-three-part-33-hade-the-changing-man-at-vertigo) has an overview that has different reflections to mine and is worth a read for that alone.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 130 - Orbital

Keywords: Cinebooks; Bande dessinée; Sci-fi; 2000ad

Creators:
Writer -  Sylvain Runberg
Art - Serge Pelle

Publisher: Cinebook, in UK, Dupuis for the original French publication

No. issues: 8 albums
Date of Publication: 2009 - 2020 (in UK); 2006 - 2019 (in France)

Last read: 2021

Orbital is an 8 volume French series published in the UK by the wonderful Cinebook. I'll be talking about the UK versions here as my French and indeed ability in all languages is embarrassingly lacking.

(https://i.imgur.com/SS18TfO.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

The series follows Caleb Swany and Mezoke Izzua partners in the Interworld Diplomatic Office (IDO, need to be careful typing that at the moment alas) tasked with keeping the peace (oh the irony given what I said just before!) on Orbital, of the title, a vast city on the edge of the known universe, well known to humankind that is. While the two are denoted as diplomats they function largely as cops. There's plenty of high octane sci-fi action.

The two are also the proverbial odd couple, buddy 'cop' duo. Mezoke is an alien of the Sandjarr species, while Caleb is the first human officer in the IDO. And the series plays with their relationship really nicely and while there is plenty of political intrigue and tensions, dollops of action adventure, it's this pairing that forms the heart of the series.

(https://i.imgur.com/e7E450V.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

To be honest as I start out on this quest to detail my 100 favourite comics series (ahem) I suspect I will hit a number of comics like this that I'm not 100% that I have much to say other than

"This is great comics, you should check this out."

but let's see how we get on.

I read this only a couple of years ago and fair to say it feels to me like the most 2000ad of Cinebook's offering. There's even easy, probably too easy, parallels to Grey Area here. It's an imaginative, hardboiled action adventure, with plenty of world building and a strong undercurrent of political commentary. It's fast paced, it moves brisky, never lets the deep dive into the political backdrop linger too long before the plot drives forward and the guns are drawn.

I have to be honest, while I only read this a couple of years ago since I read this the diplomatic tensions, political infighting that drive the story escape my feeble memory and it's more a visceral feeling that this comic was immense fun that puts it on the list. I remember loving the interplay between the two characters as their relationship grows. The specifics and details have slipped away. And that's fine, that's enough. This list is quite intuitive and if I 'have a feeling' a given comic should be there as I have fond thoughts of it, even if the whys and wherefores are vague, well dammit that's enough, you're on the list. I strongly suspect it's the 2000adesque nature of this that's struck a chord with me.

It's likely also that vagueness, the fact a lot of the specifics have slipped away from me that also means it places low. It resonated with me for sure, but not enough for me to have a firm grip on the detail and specifics. There's no scenes that lodge in my head. No moments that linger and define what it is about this series that work for me. It's really good, but can't be THAT good if I've let so much slide out my noggin after only a couple of years. Mind my memory is bloody awful so there is that as well, I can't hold my failing too hard against it.

(https://i.imgur.com/Oj7ZmXu.png)
 Copyright - them what created it...

Another thing that allows me to know this needs to be on the list is Serge Pelle's stunning art. They make you believe this wonderfully alien world is real and solid. They have an exquisite design sense when it comes to world building, and even the smallest panel just oozes details and solidity. I'd love to see them take on Mega City One, there are real parallels to how David Taylor makes that world come to life and feels so robust and real, yet almost ethereal in its differences to our world.

There's also a very intriguing contrast between the more... cartoony... shall we say, way they draws people's faces and the tight detailed way they build the world. They are juxtaposed really effectively. It's important to note that while I say the way they draw faces is 'cartoony' it conveys the acting of characters perfectly well. Character's emotions and motives, both alien and human alike are fantastically realised. *

(https://i.imgur.com/WlB4LkN.jpg)
 Copyright - them what created it...

Another aspect of the art that needs mentioning is the colouring; it's wonderfully effective. Again another 2000ad parallel to draw here. The colours remind my inexpert eye of Gary Caldwell, they are soft, muted, earthy, but that allows things to pop wonderfully when colours not normally seen are used.

(https://i.imgur.com/qzsJe8q.png)
 Copyright - them what created it...

The series really is an artistic tour-de-force. It's visually stunning and while I often think of myself as a reader drawn to the writers on a series, rather than the art, I think the astonishing real, alien visuals are a large part of why the comic works so well for me.

So Orbital, a complete series in 8 volumes. I got nowt to say about it. Get drawn in by the art, get pulled in by its 2000ad type storytelling, but fall in love with the characters and their relationship. That's all I gotta say on this one.

(https://i.imgur.com/fNgNk70.png)
 Copyright - them what created it...

Where to find it

All 8 volumes are still and print and available from Cinebook (https://www.cinebook.co.uk/orbital-c-141_146_212.html)

Learn more

  Obligatory (but short in this case) Wikipaedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_(comics))

 Reviews of all 8 volumes (https://www.pipelinecomics.com/?s=orbital) from the fantastic Pipeline Comics

*Addendum. After writing this I watched a wonderful YouTube video by the luxurious Matttt (and that's not just my 't' key sticking that's the name of his channel) which explains about how Manga uses this technique (https://youtu.be/pF-nVvU_uHc?si=JwUHW2XN5O4ZGEvT) to great effect and why its used and the impact it has on the reader. Seriously, every day is a school day and you should defo watch this even though it's got nowt to do with the comics above.

Here me now, echoing everything Colin just said.

Orbital will not change your world, but it's really, REALLY rock solid euro-fi comics and worth a punt on the entire run. Apply that to so much of Cinebooks out put...

Damn it Colin, did you time this to optimize how much money I'm liable to shift at the Cinebooks stand this weekend? You fiend, you absolute fiend.

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 09 November, 2023, 07:57:48 AMDamn it Colin, did you time this to optimize how much money I'm liable to shift at the Cinebooks stand this weekend? You fiend, you absolute fiend.

Hey at least you can Zac. Cos I've been so rubbish at getting to cons and that was the main way I picked up Cinebooks I've SO far behind on a number of series. Do they still do those lush bulk buy offers?

That looks good and my interest is piqued

Are you on some type of commission from these creators?

Your write ups are brilliant but I can see them costing me potentially lots of money 😖

I just hope most are on Digital format as I won't have enough room to buy all the hard copies of the comics recommended 🙁.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 09 November, 2023, 08:08:04 AM

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 09 November, 2023, 07:57:48 AMDamn it Colin, did you time this to optimize how much money I'm liable to shift at the Cinebooks stand this weekend? You fiend, you absolute fiend.

Hey at least you can Zac. Cos I've been so rubbish at getting to cons and that was the main way I picked up Cinebooks I've SO far behind on a number of series. Do they still do those lush bulk buy offers?

I didn't go last year and didn't have the funds the year prior so didn't check, was more of a social con 2021 was. I shall report back with my findings...that's if you don't hear the guttural cries of my wallet resonating from somewhere in Yorkshire first.

Quote from: Trooper McFad on 09 November, 2023, 08:10:20 AMI just hope most are on Digital format as I won't have enough room to buy all the hard copies of the comics recommended 🙁.

Cinebooks are albums and thus lovely and slim so you can get all 8 with very little shelf space needed ... and I promise there is no kick back to me! That said I do need to spin post to digital offering more and that's something I'll look to improve.

Thank you for you very kind words and SORRY!

Thanks Colin

As much as I've gone 90% Digital I still prefer a physical book to hold so I am particular on which copies I pick up - they have to be HC to start

 

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 129 - Nowhere Men

Keywords: Image; Unfinished; Sci-fi; The Beatles

Creators:
Writer -  Eric Stepthenson
Art - Nate Bellegarde; Dave Taylor
Colours - Jordie Baellaire

Publisher: Image Comics

No. issues: 11 - to date... in theory
Date of Publication: 2012 - 2016 ... well in theory for now

Last read: 2016

Oh what could have been, what could have been. There will be a number of series in this list that haven't reached their desired conclusion, I mean we've had another already. This one though feels like it's going to be one of the series to suffer most because of this. The comic had a wonderful premise, what if scientists had been the 'rock and roll' stars, not... well ...rock and roll stars. What if The Beatles had been a Fantastic Four of the science world, not the Fab Four of the music world. Throw in some superheroes created al la the actual comic book Fantastic four and you have an amazing concept which is played with... well fabulously.

(https://i.imgur.com/t16FtPm.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Image Comic's Publisher Eric Stephenson turned his hand back to writing - he's apparently done some bits and bobs before, mainly on Marvel titles, but this is the first work I was conscious of. He joined up with Nate Bellegarde in 2012 to create the high concept, sci-fi series Nowhere Men.

The comic follows two main storylines. Firstly there we follow the four scientists who founded 'World Corp' in the 60s and shot to global mega-stardom. Treated like our world treats rock stars. Their scientific and technological advances changing the world massively and seemingly for the good. At the time the series is set the four have split up and we see them all, well most of them, as older men and begin to understand how that mega stardom, ego and developing philosophies have driven them apart. The band, as all great bands seem to have inevitably split up.

(https://i.imgur.com/l88IwEv.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

The series delves into the past and we learn more about how their friendship and work was shattered during their heyday and begin to understand how they have got to the points they have during the 'current' era.

The second key storyline involves the crew of a research station in orbit infected by some cosmic interstellar ...something. The crew manage to get down to Earth and the infection seems to have given them superpowers... in most instances. How they cope with their new 'powers', what all this means and how they can be used creates intrigue.

(https://i.imgur.com/XuD4icA.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

It also crucially pulls the remaining founders of World Corp back together to try to understand the implications and science behind these transformations. Meanwhile other forces, some within World Corp itself, have their own agendas.

(https://i.imgur.com/fyW72tl.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

It's high concept, heady stuff. Lots of ideas and themes, all thrown together into a rich, powerful mix. At its core though it's the story of friendships and the pressures that drive them apparent. The impact of fame and ego on brilliant, creative minds. How this impacts on those people and their families. Yes its high concept but it's also wonderfully human and character based. It's brilliant stuff.

Its only real problem is the series production had its own dramas. Nate Bellegarde, whose wonderful art really added to the first arc and whose design of characters was near perfect, had some significant health issues. He was unable to continue the series after a number of delays. He wrote an open letter explaining this and laying out clearly his views on things.

The series went on hiatus, but folks knew they had gold here, after all it got a number of Eisner nominations. A couple of promised returns weren't realised; it eventually came back for the second arc with Dave Taylor being a more than able replacement on art. Hope returned, but then so did the delays. And after another 5 issues limped out, so 11 were produced in almost 4 years... then... nothing.

(https://i.imgur.com/eASPBPC.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Such a shame. The problems that lead to the book finally seeming to be cancelled, though this was never officially announced, aren't as clear as those behind the first hiatus. Dave Taylor has also had health problems, Eric Stepthenson seemed to be frustrated by continued problems. Who knows exactly what happened, but it killed this brilliant series. And despite the 11 issues we got being so good it remains a frustrating unfinished tale, with so many questions left hanging and not enough tied up to leave a satisfying read. Hence its low position in this list of great comics. I am left to wonder quite how high it would have been if we'd got to some kind of ending, let alone the planned ending.

This was a brilliant series. With fantastic ideas used to support some rich, engaging characters the like of which you don't get to see too often in fiction. The art was uniformly fantastic throughout. The final great thing, not yet mentioned, is the astonishingly good design to package all this. From logos, to 'historical' text pieces, to back matter, to merchandise EVERYTHING produced for this comic looked so good. It was clear folks cared a lot about this and knew they had something special. It's such a shame even that wasn't enough.

(https://i.imgur.com/JPebsWw.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Where to find it

Well you can get the first arc (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nowhere-Men-Fates-Worse-Death/dp/1607066912/ref=sr_1_1?crid=OBP28N6RKMHT&keywords=nowhere+men&qid=1697895799&rnid=266239&s=books&sprefix=nowhere+men%2Caps%2C73&sr=1-1) from all the normal outlets.

The rest alas hasn't been collected, after all it wasn't finished. So you'll need to track them down on the aftermarket. Shouldn't been too hard or too expensive and if you except it not finished well worth it.

They all appear to be available via Comixology (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=nowhere+men&i=comics-manga&crid=2774PTWZV6LSN&sprefix=nowhere+men%2Ccomics-manga%2C59&ref=nb_sb_noss_1) if anyone still uses that!

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipaedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nowhere_Men)

 Cancelled Greats (https://1comicbooksblog.blogspot.com/2019/03/cancelled-greats-nowhere-men.html) coverage of this... cancelled greats with LOTS of lovely visuals / pages from the series.

You'll learn all you need to by reading the First issue (https://imagecomics.com/comics/releases/nowhere-men-1) for free at the Image Comics website. [Note this appears to be down as I post this but the link from the issue one page is still there and it was up what a couple of weeks ago when I wrote this up, so fingers crossed this will be fixed?]

You have intrigued me, Colin.
That art. That overall design. Nice

Ordered.

(And the TPB you link to appears to be out of print, so I just paid half nothing for a secondhand copy.)

Quote from: JohnW on 13 November, 2023, 09:00:28 AMOrdered.

(And the TPB you link to appears to be out of print, so I just paid half nothing for a secondhand copy.)

Nice one. Really hope you enjoy it!

I'd always hoped with Nowhere Men they'd put out a final issue that would wrap things up in some way. I imagine it wouldn't have been satisfactory, but it would have been something. (Or perhaps a few issues.) I really liked the story. Annoyed it just got left hanging. And, honestly, this played a big part in me scaling back my Image purchases to stories that were either one-and-done, already finished, or that had enough within each HC to keep me going, even when release schedules are deeply, deeply frustrating. (I'm looking at you, Saga; and especially you, Lazarus.)

Yep its really really frustrating and the number of series I've hung onto, Mudman, Autumnlands etc etc and like you its made me a lot more reluctant to take a 'risk' which becomes a negative feedback cycle!

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 13 November, 2023, 10:40:26 AM(I'm looking at you, Saga; and especially you, Lazarus.)

Both of these are coming to a thread near you very soon, but for very different reasons...

More fantastic stuff Colin, thank you! I'm definitely reading Orbital on the strength of this.

Nowhere Men sounds fascinating... but I can't get invested in something with no ending.

These mini-articles are brilliant. Comprehensive and full of genuine love for the comic in question.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 09 November, 2023, 08:08:04 AMDo they still do those lush bulk buy offers?

They do! 10 for 5, in this economy? The mad lads.

I was already over budget by the time I found the stall so behaved and left it, but the Leo books (mostly the last few issues of Namibia and the later Aldebaran cycle volumes I've not got around too yet) tempted me something horrid.

Really enjoying reading this thread Colin. Shade has always been one of my all time favourite, and it seems insane that only the there's only the first three trades and that's that. I have been slowly collecting the rest as single issues (as I stupidly sold my original set when I was very, very broke in late nineties) and when I do I plan to get one of those comics binding companies to make it in to three omnibus editions so I can cherish it forevermore.

I'd not heard of Nowhere Men or Orbital, so shall add them to my already far too long Amazon wishlist!

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 13 November, 2023, 11:39:00 AM... I'm definitely reading Orbital on the strength of this.

... Comprehensive and full of genuine love for the comic in question.

Cool - really hope you enjoy Orbital. As for the love on show, we're at the bottom end of the list, just imagine how its going to get at the top end. It'll be positively sticky!

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 13 November, 2023, 12:04:44 PM

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 09 November, 2023, 08:08:04 AMDo they [Cinebooks] still do those lush bulk buy offers?

They do! 10 for 5, in this economy? The mad lads.

Cool Beans! I really need to get back on the Con trail so I can catch up with them, and any number of you lovely folks.

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 14 November, 2023, 07:17:15 AM... Shade has always been one of my all time favourite, and it seems insane that only the there's only the first three trades and that's that. I have been slowly collecting the rest as single issues (as I stupidly sold my original set when I was very, very broke in late nineties) and when I do I plan to get one of those comics binding companies to make it in to three omnibus editions so I can cherish it forevermore.

I'd not heard of Nowhere Men or Orbital, so shall add them to my already far too long Amazon wishlist!

I was a little surprised (well kinda in the context of being a bit surprised anyone reads my guff!!) there weren't more comments about Shade and the fact its relatively low on the list (mind all of these are GREAT comics). I thought there were a number of fans on the board and that the 2000ad crowd would love it.

Love the idea of doing some bindings... one day, one day...

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 13 November, 2023, 11:02:33 AMBoth of these are coming to a thread near you very soon, but for very different reasons...

Well, that's got me curious.

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 14 November, 2023, 07:17:15 AMI'd not heard of Nowhere Men or Orbital, so shall add them to my already far too long Amazon wishlist!

Just... prepare for disappointment with Nowhere Men just stopping. I got it in a Humble Bundle and within two issues was set to buy it, until I realised it'd never be completed. (And although what's there is really good, it for me was ultimately unsatisfying in how it's left. Fine as part of a Humble, but in print? Nah.)

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 14 November, 2023, 08:01:32 AMI was a little surprised (well kinda in the context of being a bit surprised anyone reads my guff!!) there weren't more comments about Shade and the fact its relatively low on the list (mind all of these are GREAT comics). I thought there were a number of fans on the board and that the 2000ad crowd would love it.

Love the idea of doing some bindings... one day, one day...

Out of the "British Invasion" of the late eighties it seems Shade is the one that has fallen off the radar, Moore's Swamp Thing and Watchmen, Morrison's Animal Man and Doom Patrol, Delano and Ennis's Hellblazer runs and Gaiman's The Sandman are held in incredibly high regard, but poor old Peter does seem to have been forgotten about a bit.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 14 November, 2023, 08:54:28 AM

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 14 November, 2023, 07:17:15 AMI'd not heard of Nowhere Men or Orbital, so shall add them to my already far too long Amazon wishlist!

Just... prepare for disappointment with Nowhere Men just stopping. I got it in a Humble Bundle and within two issues was set to buy it, until I realised it'd never be completed. (And although what's there is really good, it for me was ultimately unsatisfying in how it's left. Fine as part of a Humble, but in print? Nah.)

I've been reading a fair few Image comics where that's happened so am (unfortunately) starting to get used to it, but thanks for the heads up.

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 15 November, 2023, 11:11:09 AMpoor old Peter does seem to have been forgotten about a bit.

He does, and most unfairly, IMO. I was heartened to hear our very own Matt Smith mention Milligan/McKeever's "The Extremist" as his choice of under-rated comic (on the most recent Comics for the Apocalypse podcast). Also, "Enigma", which, in a better world, would be mentioned as reverentially as Watchmen.

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 15 November, 2023, 11:50:27 AM... Also, "Enigma", which, in a better world, would be mentioned as reverentially as Watchmen.

Oh you are going to be so mad at me when I do a post way down the road then! Currently planned for a post straight after my highest placing Pete Milligan series...

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 15 November, 2023, 01:43:45 PMOh you are going to be so mad at me when I do a post way down the road then! Currently planned for a post straight after my highest placing Pete Milligan series...

To be fair, Enigma did get me laid, which is more than I can say for Watchmen or DKR. :D

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 15 November, 2023, 07:50:48 PMTo be fair, Enigma did get me laid

And see the thread morph into Campbell Confidential: a Letterer After Dark

Quote from: JohnW on 15 November, 2023, 08:31:45 PM

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 15 November, 2023, 07:50:48 PMTo be fair, Enigma did get me laid

And see the thread morph into Campbell Confidential: a Letterer After Dark

There's a legion of comic fans just queueing up to hear how that worked. Jim you need to take this on a one man show World Tour!

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 15 November, 2023, 09:00:50 PMThere's a legion of comic fans just queueing up to hear how that worked.

Not as interesting as I made it sound... unsurprisingly. Went to UKCAC in '94 (I think!) and got into a conversation with a young lady who was waaaay out of my league about our shared love for Vertigo and, particularly, Enigma. Randomly bumped into her in a pub later on in the evening and the resumed conversation resolved itself in much a better fashion than I expected. :)

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 128 - Gotham Central

Keywords: Batman; needs a reread; Crime Comic

Creators:
Writer -  Greg Rucka, Ed Brubaker
Art - Michael Lark and a host of others

Publisher: DC Comics

No. issues: 40
Date of Publication: Dec 2002 - April 2006

Last read: 2016

While Batman gets all the attention when it comes to fighting costume crime it could be argued that the real heroes are the regular cops that have to deal with the costumed crazies that he attracts to the city. Doing that without the high tech resources of a super vigilante billionaire.  Gotham Central addresses this and in some ways is Hill Street Blues in a city as dark and dangerous as Batman's haunt. If being a cop (well according to the telly I watch) in America is as hard and emotionally destructive, what would it do to someone in a city so besieged by supervillains?

(https://i.imgur.com/Dxh4D8B.jpg)
 Copyright - DC Comics and not them what created it...

It's a simple concept that had been played with before, particularly in stories and mini-series focused on Jim Gordon. This series really ran with things though and provided a large ensemble cast to allow room for much more human investigation of the impact of being a cop in Gotham. As I recall it reads like folks who loved The Wire translating the cop elements of that tour-de-force to a city overrun with super crime, against which they are entirely out of their depth.

(https://i.imgur.com/D6yG3Vp.jpg)
Copyright -  DC Comics and not them what created it...

The serie's two writers used a smart set-up to allow them both as much scope and room to play with their own cast of characters. Gotham Central Police Force has two shifts, the Day Shift was written by Greg Rucka, the Night Shift written by Ed Brubaker. Each taking turns to produce short arcs with their cast, but giving the whole thing a sense of cohesion. It's smartly set up and really worked well.

The art was provided at first by Michael Lark. His earthy, gritty work was perfect for the tone of the series that was unsurprisingly hard boiled and dark. This is a comic that didn't hold back on the physical and emotional punches as you might expect.

(https://i.imgur.com/MERHsIh.jpg)
Copyright -  DC Comics and not them what created it...

Lark was inked by Stefano Gaudiano after a while and there were a number fill in artists. When Lark moved on after issue 25 a team of artists took the reins and to be fair they all kept up the tone and felt perfectly well. This was aided by colour artists who provided a suitably downtrodden colour palette. For all the artistic changes the series did feel consistent and well presented.

The cast featured a number of GCPD regulars from Batman, Detective and other Bat Family comics. It did a good job of not allowing them to take over and giving all the cast time and room to shine and grow... or very often get crushed and diminished. As it had a wide range of characters in such a hard environment no one felt entirely safe and that added to the gritty edge. The time this comic came out superhero comics had begun to move away from the idea that 'mature' comics required either big guns and plenty of pouches; or magic and cynicism. They still arguably lent too hard into the grim and gritty and this might be this series biggest drawback. Mind with the topic at hand it's hard to imagine this story working any other way.

(https://i.imgur.com/9nuh5wv.jpg)
Copyright -  DC Comics and not them what created it...

The series reached a natural conclusion. First Michael Lark left after a couple of years. After another year Brubaker moved on. At that point Greg Rucka wasn't needing to wrap things up but felt it belonged to all three and didn't want to continue without the others and so drew things to a close after a couple more stories with issue 40. Has to be said, while I'd have happily had more, it's probably to the series benefit that after a very strong, consistent run they called time and as such it is a tight, well remembered series that didn't drift from its original intent and didn't over play the premise.

I've not re-read this series since I first got it all almost 8 years ago now (well I'll have read it 7-8 years ago, likely I purchased them over 10 years ago such is the nature of my to read list... well spreadsheet!) but the series is getting close to the top of my reading list again and it will be interesting to see how well this holds up. As it is if you enjoy your comics hard boiled, downtrodden, gritty and rain soaked you can't ask for more. If you like shows like The Wire, comics like Criminal, or even better That Texas Blood, while having a hankering for a superhero universe this provides the perfect blend and though it's been a while I feel safe recommending it.   

(https://i.imgur.com/7DuNnxi.jpg)
Copyright -  DC Comics and not them what created it...


Where to find it

 couple of options (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=gotham+central&i=stripbooks&rh=n%3A274081%2Cp_n_feature_browse-bin%3A400530011&dc&ds=v1%3A2PdcEc2D9L2mjCbA33TuCSIZFZktS1TypYlhTwE6%2FmY&crid=1ZPYP1GJY0ZYO&qid=1697991660&rnid=400529011&sprefix=gotham+central%2Caps%2C82&ref=sr_nr_p_n_feature_browse-bin_1) in the big online book sellers or your LCS. A big reasonably priced Omnibus or 4 chunky trades.

It's also available digitally easily enough from what was Comixology in the UK now moving its content to Kindle - grrrrhh.

That said I doubt you'd pay much for the original floppies in the after market.

Worth noting there were 5 original trades released when the series first came out which I'd avoid simply as they aren't comprehensive and miss out the odd story.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotham_Central)

 Near Mint Collections (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApJ7CvhY1Do) has a review of the Omnibus which includes a nice insight into the story as well as the book.

 Maddogg Comics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIQWV7yLBhM) another decent video review of the series... why am I going for videos for this one?

Cover Gallery (https://www.comics.org/series/10806/covers/) from Grand Comics Database.

I hadn't seen The Wire when I read this, but the comparison is apt. But imagine if Penguin or the Riddler popped up from time to time in The Wire. The absurdity would deflate everything around it.
Gotham Central was very nearly a hard-boiled slice-of-life cop story and very nearly a Batman story for grownups, but narrowly missed both marks.
(...And then didn't it balls up the lot towards the end by dragging itself into a big fat DC crossover event of some sort?)
I'm possibly being unfair. I remember this as high-grade comics, but I also remember my frustration at its just-a-couple-of-inches-too-short shortcomings.

Quote from: JohnW on 16 November, 2023, 10:14:03 AM(...And then didn't it balls up the lot towards the end by dragging itself into a big fat DC crossover event of some sort?)

Twas ever thus.

One I'm incredibly ignorant of, but a curiosity or two has been piqued. On the pile it goes, cheers Colin.
Actually surprised how little none Vertigo DC stuff I own.
Grant and Breyfoggles Batman stuff, Ostranders original Suicide Squad stuff and that is sort of it.

Quote from: JohnW on 16 November, 2023, 10:14:03 AMI hadn't seen The Wire when I read this, but the comparison is apt. But imagine if Penguin or the Riddler popped up from time to time in The Wire. The absurdity would deflate everything around it.
Gotham Central was very nearly a hard-boiled slice-of-life cop story and very nearly a Batman story for grownups, but narrowly missed both marks.
(...And then didn't it balls up the lot towards the end by dragging itself into a big fat DC crossover event of some sort?)
I'm possibly being unfair. I remember this as high-grade comics, but I also remember my frustration at its just-a-couple-of-inches-too-short shortcomings.

That's a really good take. I think I approached it as good batverse stories told really well. As with all these things it what the reader brings to the party... and I've completely forgotten if there's a big crossover thing tied in at the end... or blanked it... its entirely possible.

Important to say its DEFO not as good as The Wire, if The Wire was comics it'd be top 20!

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 16 November, 2023, 10:20:17 AMOne I'm incredibly ignorant of, but a curiosity or two has been piqued. On the pile it goes, cheers Colin.
Actually surprised how little none Vertigo DC stuff I own.
Grant and Breyfoggles Batman stuff, Ostranders original Suicide Squad stuff and that is sort of it.

Well I'll be helping there (or not!) there are 15 or so DC titles on my list. Though fair to say many of them are DC Universe and don't all feel very DC. Grant and Breyfogle Batman is defo amongst them.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 09 November, 2023, 07:47:51 AM(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 130 - Orbital

Keywords: Cinebooks; Bande dessinée; Sci-fi; 2000ad

Creators:
Writer -  Sylvain Runberg
Art - Serge Pelle

Publisher: Cinebook, in UK, Dupuis for the original French publication

No. issues: 8 albums
Date of Publication: 2009 - 2020 (in UK); 2006 - 2019 (in France)

Last read: 2021

Orbital is an 8 volume French series published in the UK by the wonderful Cinebook. I'll be talking about the UK versions here as my French and indeed ability in all languages is embarrassingly lacking.

Thanks for this one, looks quite something.  Puts me in mind of Colin Wilson's Real: Into the Shadow of the Sun.  The first volume of a trilogy originally published in French, only the first got translated.  it's pretty typical Wilson artwork of the kind he was doing on the early Rogue Trooper.  Like you, I can't speak French, I am however tempted occasionally to get the complete edition and just luxuriate in Wilson's art.

Think I'lll be adding this to my list of things to look out for.

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 15 November, 2023, 11:50:27 AM

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 15 November, 2023, 11:11:09 AMpoor old Peter does seem to have been forgotten about a bit.

He does, and most unfairly, IMO. I was heartened to hear our very own Matt Smith mention Milligan/McKeever's "The Extremist" as his choice of under-rated comic (on the most recent Comics for the Apocalypse podcast). Also, "Enigma", which, in a better world, would be mentioned as reverentially as Watchmen.

I loved both of those as well, and though his modern work is a little patchy (Dogs Of London didn't work for me, but The-Excellent did) it would be great if he was able to have a huge hit on his hands again, if only so that his earlier work might be reprinted.

Really enjoying these submissions Colin. Am working through Copperhead, yep, it's a good un. Have ordered the initial Orbital volumes - they look really good art wise. And will give the first volume of Nowhere Men a go. My shelves are already groaning.

I did get a few issues of Nexus back in the day - when Dark Horse started publishing it. But just didn't get into it. It was perhaps too thoughtful for me at the time - looking back I was more into Lobo (on the back of the Biz drawing a couple of series)!

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 19 November, 2023, 09:16:30 AM[Pete Milligan] and though his modern work is a little patchy (Dogs Of London didn't work for me, but The-Excellent did) it would be great if he was able to have a huge hit on his hands again, if only so that his earlier work might be reprinted.

Yeah I've read a bunch of the recent Pete Milligan minis, it did seem for a while like he was an IP facotry running off short story after short story. All of which were enjoyable but to varying degrees. Dogs of London was probably my least favourite but there were some beauts as well. X-Cellent was really good and will be wrapped up into an entry coming later in the list...

Quote from: Le Fink on 19 November, 2023, 04:16:40 PMReally enjoying these submissions Colin. Am working through Copperhead, yep, it's a good un. Have ordered the initial Orbital volumes - they look really good art wise. And will give the first volume of Nowhere Men a go. My shelves are already groaning.

Cool and also YIKE! One of the aims of this list was to try to point folks to what I think are some of the best comics out there and its super great that folks are being turned onto things because of my yacking. That said as its so much my list and so idiosyncratic I'm also nervous when folks are actually spending their hard earned money at least in part based on things I say! Really hope you enjoy them. Do report back, glad you are enjoying Copperhead.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 127 - Giant Days

Keywords: Sheffield; needs a reread; slice of Life; comedy

Creators:
Writer -  John Allison
Art - Lissa Treiman, Max Sarin, with inks by Julia Fleming for much of the run
Colours - Whitney Cogar
Letters: Our own Jim Campbell

Publisher: Boom! Studios

No. issues: 54
Date of Publication: 2015 - 2019

Last read: 2010

Well this one is VERY interesting and raises a number of questions, being:

Why is this so low, even accepting all the comics on this list are GREAT.
Why does this need a re-read since its not been very long since I read it - the answer to which will in part, I suspect, answer my first question.
Why haven't I mentioned the Letterers before now and only do so here 'cos its our Jim?

I will try to answer all this and more when I discuss...

(https://i.imgur.com/wfRpQ7h.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

John Allison, writer and creator of Giant Days - and before folks jump on me, yes I know there's artists involved but John Allison did all the creative stuff on the webcomic that precedes the comic book... and I should note I've not read that and this guff only refers to the comic series - ahem where was I... oh yes John Allison writer and creator of Giant Days went to University of Sheffield in the mid to late nineties (judging by his age) and so did I. Giant Days uses that as a reference point and tells of the experience of three students in their three years at Sheffield Uni, though admittedly set later than my adventures there (I think).

The three are... well actually the panel below perfectly tells you so rather than me butcher it read this...

(https://i.imgur.com/JzqRWHC.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

The comic is hilarious, charming and fantastically drawn, by all three artists. The humour is playful, but doesn't undercut the wonderfully observed characters, not just the three leads but the supporting cast as well. The drama is mundane and yet carries the melodrama we all give small things as we live these moments of self discovery through our quiet realities. It's just great comics. Damnit, it didn't only get nominated for Eisners, by the end of the series it was winning them.

So why the hell is this appearing so early in this list? Bloody good question and one I will attempt to answer... but I'm a little mystified myself. See this has moments of feeling deeply personal to me. Not only can I relate so closely to many aspects of the different characters and their struggles... well their struggles...ish, I find myself laughing at myself for having gone through such pains over such silly (but important) things.

(https://i.imgur.com/Kolyhro.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

It's also genuinely set in Sheffield. I mean it doesn't labour the point BUT damn it is Sheffield. See that Library in the panels above that really is Western Bank Library, they are sat in the postgrad screened off bit (I mean they shouldn't really be in that bit but no one checked.) I tended to 'study' on the mezzanine literally above that bit, you can see the shelves that held the biology books above their heads as they study.

When they go to the train station, even though it's not featured in massive detail you can tell it's the train station, and when I say 'the' I mean it's specifically Sheffield Train Station. They even mention the bloody Cobden View, I used to live on the street that backed onto and drank in there a fair bit.

(https://i.imgur.com/zw1IB65.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

The thing is no one ever called it The Cobden View Arms (as is done in the panels above), no one. It's the Cobden View, or more likely The Cobden. I mean it's entirely possible that it's actually called Cobden View Arms, I strangely don't know. All I know is no one ever referred to it as that. And that, right there is my problem with this... my problem, not the comics. This is simply wonderful comics... but I'm too close to it.

When I started to read this I was bowled over with it. These are  amazing comics recounting my life, in my city, the city I love. Sheffield isn't over-stated, it's not one of the main characters in the way Mega City One, Gotham and Downlode are. Rather it's a supporting character, helping to shape the tone and feel of the series a little, giving a very real setting, especially to those that know it.

As I read on and the comics arguably gets better and better I found myself feeling a bit put out. This wasn't really my life, it reflected different aspects of my life but it wasn't really mine. It was close enough though that as it told its own stories, had its own reactions to adventures I'd almost lived, it started to grate a little. Those initial connections and intimate shared experiences seemed less and less important. Less and less significant. Just as they should. For 98.7% of readers that wouldn't matter a jot and it really shouldn't have to me.

But it did. I felt a little jilted. Too close to not still love it, to separate to be able to get past the fact it was changing, growing beyond me. And so I had a very silly, childish even, reaction, I started to resent things, feel annoyed and the characters started to grate, simply because they were living their own life, as they rightly should. It really is my problem, but it's also very real to me, entirely my honest reaction, however wrong that might be.

That's the only reason it's not much higher, my reaction, my silly childish needs from something that felt so perfect for me having the cheek to grow in its own ways. So if you are reading this and shaking your head in pity for me. GOOD. That's the appropriate reaction to this write-up. That's how it should be and you really should go and read these wonderful, charming, hilarious comics and pity my stupid personal reaction.

It's also why I really need to re-read it again. I need to give it a bit more space and come in again, fresh with my expectations adjusted. With a bit of time and distance I'll be able to read these as just great comics, set aside my childish, oh so personal objections and just appreciate the craft on display here.

(https://i.imgur.com/4EAySF5.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Now to the final question (you know the one's I posed at the beginning, go back, check um) why don't I mention lettering much, if at all. Well I'm a little ashamed to say I'm not great at analysing lettering. I'm more often than not in the school that the best lettering goes unnoticed... that is until I see the very best lettering (or bad lettering I guess) and I go WOW! Lettering is super important and part of the art... but day to day I have to be honest I don't have the skills to understand what makes it good, aside from knowing it helps with the flow of reading and doesn't interfere with the art. Or where the art doesn't take account of the lettering and the letterer has to work like billyo to make it work as best they can.

SO since this is turning into a confessional (and there will be a lot of that in these posts) now seems the perfect time to apologise to all the letterers who contribute to the works I discuss and I ignore and don't acknowledge. Again it's me, not them that's the problem. Which given the amount of comics I read is pretty poor. So sorry Jim, I do appreciate you, just not in a way I can articulate!

So yeah Giant Days, wonderful comics that expose so much about how this is a very personal list and how you should all just really ignore me and do your own list... well except you should all read ALL the comics on this list as they are all super good!

(https://i.imgur.com/HFfobto.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Where to find it

There are a load of trades omnibus (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=giant+days&rh=n%3A266239%2Cn%3A274081&dc&ds=v1%3A5704gj62mZ5P6ZvVMt%2FTULg%2BvHai9y6j%2FhUmw1HRsjA&crid=2ETCQ88I8SCIW&qid=1698134512&rnid=1642204031&sprefix=giant+days%2Caps%2C124&ref=sr_nr_n_2) and other collections out there.

I got these digitally in a sale a good while ago and Humble Bundle (https://www.humblebundle.com/books?hmb_source=navbar) is a great place to look out for great comic deals that also support some great charities - always remember to add a little extra if you can to boost the amount that goes to the charities and doesn't stiff the creators. You'll still be getting a crazy good deal.

The floppies are getting pretty hard to get comprehensively as I've discovered.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_Days)

 Nerdist (https://nerdist.com/article/giant-days-bright-future-a-comic-you-dont-know-you-need/) has a short, but decent write up.

To be honest there's not a great deal out there - and there really should be -  even publisher Boom! (https://www.boom-studios.com/series/giant-days/) doesn't have much to say. So I guess you'll just have to read them!

Great review this Colin, really appreciate the personal reasons you have for loving (and falling out of love with) this one.

I've read a bit of Giant Days and as someone who was at university in the 90s (not at Sheffield) can confirm that there's some perfectly observed moments in there and that this comic can be very charming. I'm sad to admit I'd forgotten all about it, but this has inspired me to pick up a copy of the first collected edition for my wife, who I'm hoping will enjoy it.
Something I really like is the title. I'm not sure why John Allison picked it, but I love it as a description of that period of my life.

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 20 November, 2023, 09:51:21 AMI'm sad to admit I'd forgotten all about it, but this has inspired me to pick up a copy of the first collected edition for my wife, who I'm hoping will enjoy it.

On the gift front, it's worth mentioning that Boom are currently releasing the whole series as a set of handsome hardcover books — each of the 'Library Editions' collects eight issues, so the series will run to seven volumes with 1-3 already out and 4 coming in January. They're a pretty reasonable twenty quid each on Amazon. (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Giant-Days-Library-Vol/dp/1684159598/ref=sr_1_1?crid=19BZ1J91GP07Q&keywords=giant+days+library+edition&qid=1700476282&sprefix=giant+days+libra%2Caps%2C82&sr=8-1)

(The whole thing was fully funded on Kickstarter, so Boom will definitely be releasing the complete set.)

Thanks for a lovely review, there, Colin. After fifteen years and somewhere north of 75,000 pages professionally lettered, Giant Days remains the favourite thing I've ever worked on — it's not just that the book is very funny, but it's also wise and kind.

I lettered about a thousand pages of Max Sarin's artwork in the course of doing Giant Days and every single one held something that brought me genuine joy. Max is, IMO, an absolute genius.

For anyone who missed them, John and Max also teamed up for Wicked Things from Boom, a murder mystery starring a grown-up Lottie Grote (who pops up in Giant Days a couple of times), and The Great British Bump-Off from Dark Horse... all about sinister shenanigans going on during the filming of a well-loved British TV show, "UK Bakery Tent", which in no way resembles the Great British Bake-Off.

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 20 November, 2023, 10:47:21 AMOn the gift front, it's worth mentioning that Boom are currently releasing the whole series as a set of handsome hardcover books — each of the 'Library Editions' collects eight issues, so the series will run to seven volumes with 1-3 already out and 4 coming in January. They're a pretty reasonable twenty quid each on Amazon. (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Giant-Days-Library-Vol/dp/1684159598/ref=sr_1_1?crid=19BZ1J91GP07Q&keywords=giant+days+library+edition&qid=1700476282&sprefix=giant+days+libra%2Caps%2C82&sr=8-1)

Arh damnit I keep meaning to get a nice phyiscial copy of these as I only have these digitally, to encourage the aforementioned re-read. This might have just got you a sale... how is this thread costing me money as well!?!

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 20 November, 2023, 09:51:21 AMGreat review this Colin, really appreciate the personal reasons you have for loving (and falling out of love with) this one.

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 20 November, 2023, 10:47:21 AMThanks for a lovely review, there, Colin. After fifteen years and somewhere north of 75,000 pages professionally lettered, Giant Days remains the favourite thing I've ever worked on — it's not just that the book is very funny, but it's also wise and kind.

I think you've mentioned this before Jim (well you defo have) and I was consious of this when writing this one. I tried not to be but failed which pervsely has turned this into my favourite one of these I've done to date (not to say best or even good!) as it gets to the personal reflection better than any others have!

Hence what Barrington very kindly said.

It's the nice hardback version of GD volume 1 that I just bought!

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 20 November, 2023, 07:42:05 AMCool and also YIKE! One of the aims of this list was to try to point folks to what I think are some of the best comics out there and its super great that folks are being turned onto things because of my yacking. That said as its so much my list and so idiosyncratic I'm also nervous when folks are actually spending their hard earned money at least in part based on things I say! Really hope you enjoy them. Do report back, glad you are enjoying Copperhead.

No worries, I'll let you know. Anything vaguely sci-fi I'm interested so I'm definitely applying a filter. How attractive I find the art also a factor.

It's really interesting what you said about letterers their Colin as up until very recently I felt the same way as you did, and had never paid attention to their work that much. But I'm in the process of producing my first comic and the letterer has improved it an enormous amount, and in a number of ways (partially positioning the text in the best possible way, but also breaking it up in to separate speech bubbles to make it more effective, along with the times where they've used a different font for a specific effect), and it's given me a whole new perspective on the work they do, and has had a knock on effect while reading comics over the past few weeks and I'm much more aware of their contribution. The campaign finishes this week and I've busy few weeks ahead of me, but when the dust settles I'll start a thread about lettering, as I feel the best letterers really do improve comics in a way I've never really given them credit for in the past.

I'm currently on the Giant Days re-read myself thanks to the Library Editions. I have them all preordered via FP where they can be got for more like £16, though you have to factor postage too.

Giant Days was one that completely passed me by, think it dropped at a time where that sort of thing just wasn't on my hits list, which seems infantile now but it is what it is.

This will most assuredly be rectified in the future (read as, most likely within the next few years if I haven't lost the plot).

QuoteBoom will definitely be releasing the complete set

* cries while pointing at incomplete Lumberjanes To The Max *

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 126 - Avengers by Roger Stern and John Buscema

Keywords: Superheroes, Marvel, Mainstream, Youthful favs, formative

Creators:
Writer -  Roger Stern
Art - John Buscema inked by Tom Palmer
Colours - Mainly Christie Scheele

Publisher: Marvel Comics

No. issues: 32 (Issues 255-285 and I'm going to throw in Annual 14 cos I can even though it's not drawn by John Buscema, it has rather lovely John Byrne art, largely due to glorious Kyle Baker inks BUT does carry on a storyline from the core series.)

Date of Publication: 1985 - 1987

Last read: 2015

Another very personal one here. This time for different reasons, in this case even though I know objectively these shouldn't be on the list, who ever said this list was ever going to be objective and I bloody love these comics.

(https://i.imgur.com/QSTOxuo.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics and not the folks who made them

Roger Stern took over the Avengers with issue 227 and while the first half of his run isn't too bad - I particularly like the Vision taking over the world storyline, it's when John Buscema and Tom Palmer come onboard that his stories are really elevated.

Now let's be very honest straight off the bat, these comics aren't breaking new ground. They are pretty standard fare, mainstream superhero comics from the 80s. I mean they are bloody good standard mainstream superhero comics from the 80s, but no more. Sometimes however I also just love stuff like this. Though less and less these days and there's less and less in my collection now and few have made this list. So why has this one?

Well simply put this is one of the first series I got into when I first got into American comics and so has that emotional connection. Unlike a lot of other comics from that time (but not all wait until MUCH later in the list for my favourite from this era) these really hold up well for their craft. The storylines are strong, in their own context and there are some good character beats across the run.

(https://i.imgur.com/R5wfjKf.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics and not the folks who made them

The Wasp, in my top five US superheroes, really develops as a character during these stories, she demonstrates what a superb leader she is. Hercules is a daft, egotistical delight, Namor an infuriating but fab interloper, Black Knight becomes that superhero stereotype, the lovelorn self doubter, perfect for teenage me.  The characters here had a real impact on me.

The run also contains some pretty excellent and pivotal story arcs, most famously 'Under Siege' in issues 273 to 277. In this much hailed story Baron Zemo (the second one) gathers a new Masters of Evil, a group of super villains with the specific purpose of defeating the Avengers. Really just so Zemo can avenge himself against Captain America.

You witness Zemo putting together his team in a series of subplots in the issues leading up to the main story. Then slowly they exploit the weaknesses of our heroes, Hercules' ego and impetuousness, Black Knight's desire to prove himself, to steadily take down the Avengers and capture Avengers Mansion, viciously beating Jarvis, the Avenger's much loved butler and driving the remaining Avengers to gather support and start a desperate fight back. It's epic, thrilling stuff.

(https://i.imgur.com/1Px1FOT.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics and not the folks who made them

There's plenty of others though besides that classic, we see Terminus destroy The Savage Land (Nooo! Why on earth did they do that, I chuffin' love the Savage Land!). The Skrulls in a civil war as Nebula makes her debut. The Council of Kangs is introduced as Kang battles himself as Immortus... don't ask, it's comic book complicated. The Avengers have to fight the Olympian gods as Zeus seeks to avenge (yes I may well keep doing that!) near fatal beating Hercules takes during 'Under Siege'. I mean this is top draw superheroics. The Secret Wars II storyline, in which the all-powerful Beyonder comes to Earth to try to understand humanity, does rather stop the momentum at times, but overall this is immense fun.

Oh and the art, the art is fantastic and provides proof, if proof be needed, that inkers are so much more than 'tracers'. John Buscema is an amazing artist but it's Tom Palmer who is the real star here for me. He adds incredible depth and solidity to Buscema's pencils. Elevating John Buscema from one of the very best to possibly produce the best superhero comic art of this era... well traditional American mainstream comic art. I mean Bill Sienkiewicz and others innovate more, but the art in this run is so comfortable and powerful. It's a massive part of why I love these comics so much.

(https://i.imgur.com/LJm4yLt.png)
Copyright - Marvel Comics and not the folks who made them

All that said, these are still just really good mainstream superhero comics. This run will rarely bother the lower end of most fan based top 100s comics and I doubt we'd see them in any critical list of the same. For me though as I've grown older I've gravitated to the Avengers over say the Uncanny X-Men.

It's much easier to be cool and appealing when you are outsiders. When you skirt the edges of the law, are renegades and outcasts avenging (well I did say I would...) those that oppress you while being chased by those you defend. The Avengers have an appeal to the older me, trying to do the right things while fitting in with society and operating in the status quo and all the rules and regulations that brings. For me that's why the Bendis run on the Avengers missed the mark so badly he just made The Avengers another version of the X-Men, outlaws having to work outside the system. In this run they have to work in the system, and alas I can relate to that all too well these days.

Ultimately though it's hard to get past issue 271

(https://i.imgur.com/pCVK5Zt.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics and not the folks who made them

When I first become aware of American comics, all thanks to Paul Webster, at an age most folks move away from such things, I wandered into a newsagent in Birkenhead and picked up 5, maybe 6 comics and Avengers 271 was amongst them and the one really struck me and blew me away. Over the following months I'd come across more and more titles in the newsagent and then be introduced to that scary oasis for the nerd Chapter One in Liverpool. The titles that meant most to me would quickly change and develop as I discovered more and more and my understanding of what was good, or even great expanded... but for the first year or so Avengers was a firm favourite and helped shape what I want from mainstream US superhero comics.

It's hard to separate that formative experience from any growth in my expectations as a reader and as we go through this list there will be a few of this type of comic in here. The one's that don't necessarily stand up to my modern expectations, but are so fundamental to my understanding of what I like that I can return to them time and again and still get incredible joy from them.

(https://i.imgur.com/nDp8Yme.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics and not the folks who made them

Where to find it

I think to get a complete set of these you'll need to track down the original floppies. I don't think there's been a comprehensive collection. I reckon you could do that pretty cheaply and easily with a bit of patience.

You can get close. Issues 255 - 261 and Annual 14 (and accompanying FF Annual) can be found in Avengers - The Legacy of Thanos (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Avengers-Legacy-Thanos-1963-1996-ebook/dp/B01EZ50P8W/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3GLKYBWDTLYPZ&keywords=roger+stern+avengers&qid=1698244997&sprefix=roger+stern+avengers+%2Caps%2C144&sr=8-3)

262 and 263 I think are missing out there, but on Comixology I believe.

Then 264 - 277 in Avengers Epic Collection: Under Siege (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Avengers-Epic-Collection-Under-1963-1996-ebook/dp/B01EKDYESQ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3GLKYBWDTLYPZ&keywords=roger+stern+avengers&qid=1698245190&sprefix=roger+stern+avengers+%2Caps%2C144&sr=8-1)

And the end of the run 278 - 285 in Avengers Epic Collection: Under Siege (http://[url=https://www.amazon.co.uk/Avengers-Epic-Collection-Under-1963-1996-ebook/dp/B01EKDYESQ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3GLKYBWDTLYPZ&keywords=roger+stern+avengers&qid=1698245190&sprefix=roger+stern+avengers+%2Caps%2C144&sr=8-1)]Avengers Epic Collection - Judgement Day[/url]

You get lots of lovely other stuff included in those Epic Collection too.

Under Siege has been reprinted numerous times and there is a collection Kang storyline called 'Avengers: The Once And Future Kang' but you might need to hunt the aftermarket for that as it can get pricey.

The stuff is out there and, from my personal perspective, well worth the hunt if you like this kind of thing.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page - oh actually this doesn't exist as there's not a specific page for this run.

There are a few write ups and discussions of these comics out there. Mars will send no more (https://marswillsendnomore.wordpress.com/2014/02/19/the-avengers-by-stern-buscema-palmer/) is okay.

13th Dimension (https://13thdimension.com/the-top-13-roger-stern-avengers-stories-ranked/) has a fun top 13 across all of Sterns Avengers comics (including his West Coast Avengers I was tempted to rope into this somehow). Most the key stories in this run are covered in that.

And there's and old thread on the CBR forums! (https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?107148-Avengers-Stern-Buscema-Palmer-Run-(-255-287)-Appreciation-Thread) that sings its praises... yes I'm scrapping a bit here.

If you search 'Under Siege' and add Avengers, or Roger Stern to avoid sites about Steven Seagal movies you'll find loads of chatter and videos about that particular story.

Another terrific write-up, thanks Colin. Hachette appear to have at least some of this too: Avengers Under Siege - Hachette (https://hachettepartworks.com/en-en/marvel-the-legendary-collection/avengers-under-siege/)
Probably not my cup of tea, but I'm liking your passion for it! Marvel-wise I only read the odd Iron Man back in the 80s. Good stuff though, fond memories.

Quote from: Le Fink on 23 November, 2023, 08:08:12 PMAnother terrific write-up, thanks Colin. Hachette appear to have at least some of this too: Avengers Under Siege - Hachette (https://hachettepartworks.com/en-en/marvel-the-legendary-collection/avengers-under-siege/)
Probably not my cup of tea, but I'm liking your passion for it! Marvel-wise I only read the odd Iron Man back in the 80s. Good stuff though, fond memories.

I did think this one would be quiet here as I doubt these comics will float many folks boats, here at least. Its interesting even at this early stage seeing which write ups get more reactions than others. That's the nature of the beast though, this list is as honest as possible for me and that is NEVER going to work for everyone and some of the stuff will stink this place up! Half the fun.

Which is kinda why I called out for folks to try their own lists as it will be such fun to compare and contrast.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 125 - Daredevil by Brian Michael Bendis and Alex Maleev

Keywords: Marvel; gritty; Marvel Knights era; needs a re-read

Creators:
Writer -  Brian Michael Bendis
Art - Alex Maleev... and errr others... which I admit seems odd given I've identified this as Alex Maleev's run, I'll get to that.
Colours - Matt Hollingsworth

Publisher: Marvel Comics

No. issues: 48 - Daredevil vol. 2: 28-50; 56-81. We'll also get to what I'm considering here as its a little fluid
Date of Publication: 2001 - 2006

Last read: 2010

Brian Michael Bendis gives good Daredevil, though I am a little nervous how it will hold up on re-read, a re-read that does seem a long time coming as it's not even on the list (spreadsheet) yet. Maybe I'm subconsciously worried I might not like it as much as my memory has it!

(https://i.imgur.com/J6aZtzb.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics and not the folks who made them

First things first, what are we covering here? Well I'm going with Bendis's vol. 2 run. He did an arc 'Wake Up' with David Mack in issues 16-19 of volume 2 which I recall being pretty good and a mini Daredevil - Ninja which was okay, and 'Daredevil - The End'  which was also good. I'm not really thinking about those though. It's really his ongoing arc that starts with issue 26 where he defines himself as a great DD writer. David Mack did do an arc during this run in issues 51 - 55 and while it's good it is tangential to the ongoing storyline, so again I'm not covering that. 

That is why I name Alex Maleev as the artist, there are a few fill-ins but really this is Maleev's run as well, as he really helps define the tone of the stories, for good (mostly) and ill (a little) and for me it's as much about him as Bendis.

Now the other thing to note is I'm a massive Daredevil fan, as this list will attest as we go on. He's my favourite superhero and the one with the best hit rate of great runs. Most ongoing series are lucky to get a Simonson run, or a Claremont era etc. DD has a LOAD. There are so many of them that it's almost easier to note the less fantastic ones as they stand out more than the good to great ones, once Frank Miller and Klaus Janson get their hands on him in the late 70s. He is so consistently well served. As we go through this list I hope to unpick why that is.

(https://i.imgur.com/3oOKHP7.png)
Copyright - Marvel Comics and not the folks who made them

The Bendis and Maleev run is the one that feels most referential to that classic Miller and Janson. It's Miller Janson², Miller and Janson if they got their hand on DD in the early 2000s uber grim and gritty, hard boiled, let's make these heroes 'real' era of mainstream comics. It's also interesting that this run places so close to Gotham Central (at number 128 with a literal bullet) as the two share so much in common in terms of tone and art.

Oh gosh I'm so not getting to the point here am I, I suspect that will be a common theme when I talk about DD, hopefully I'll get that out my system here, we'll see. What we need to discuss first (ahem) is what the heck happens in these comics.

(https://i.imgur.com/YNQ0Fjd.png)
Copyright - Marvel Comics and not the folks who made them

After an initial arc 'Underboss' which establishes tone and the fact we're going to be dealing with Daredevil fully immersed in the seedy underbelly of New York organised crime. That we'll be dealing with Matt Murdock (we all know Matt Murdock is DD right, well everyone will soon..) at his most grim, his darkest, most unwavering, most humourless, truly the hard bitten, but physiologically broken warrior. Only after that do we get to the arc's major driver.

In the second arc 'Out' Matt Murdock is exposed as Daredevil in the press and while the run takes twists and turns from there, that really is the fundamental basis that shapes these stories. Matt Murdock and Foggy fight this in the courts, Daredevil tries to find ways to fight it with his fists. Everybody knows Matt is Daredevil but he ties this up in so much legal red tape no one is able to legally act upon it and he never admits it. Of course some don't care about the legality of things and the crime world circles him armed with this new weapon.

The run slides effortless into other dark corners. When the Kingpin (Alex Maleev used Bendis as his model for Kingpin right, his Kingpin is just a less smirky Bendis ... right?) returns after having been sidelined having been gunned down in issue 26. Daredevil takes him down and then takes the most extreme of steps to try to control New York's criminal underworld.

(https://i.imgur.com/5jx05pB.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics and not the folks who made them

Matt becoming the new Kingpin clearly demonstrates one of the other key elements of this run. Here Daredevil is at his most uncompromising, his most extreme, his most determined, he will stop at nothing. Bendis takes all the character developments Frank Miller introduced or refined in his run and dials them up to 11. Matt Murdock is a guilt ridden, damaged, fragile individual. Well never as much as here. Matt Murdock is self destructive. Well never as much as here. Daredevil wants to be compassionate and deal with things with his head and Matt's legal skills, but ends up resorting to his fists. Well never as much as here.

And that is the story's biggest blessing and curse. That is why this run makes this list but is a lot lower than some other Daredevil runs. Bendis and Maleev have their vision of DD and they utterly commit to it. They are perfect for the dark and 'realistic' vision of superheroes so prevalent in the early 2000s and they really run with that. They have a singular vision and they use that to create fantastic hard, dark, rain soaked stories of New York, even in a fantasy superhero world, at its bleakest and most grounded. And it really works, but it limits things.

Earlier and later Daredevil runs, which I rate much more highly, deal with similar things, but do so in far more creative and imaginative ways. Ways that allow for much more thrilling examination of very similar themes and ideas. This is so anchored that it almost drags. That's not to say it's ever boring, far from it, rather it doesn't explore different areas or stretch what can be achieved with the character.

(https://i.imgur.com/YqOHYiE.png)
Copyright - Marvel Comics and not the folks who made them

Alex Maleev's art is a really big part of this too. I'm not 100% how he produces his work but I'm pretty sure it's very heavily, if not not entirely, photo-referenced. His art looks so perfectly real. Even the most fantastical elements are cast in shadow and designed to look as grounded as possible. New York looks like the hard, grimy and scarred city of 70s cop movies. His designs for Daredevils rogues gallery are made to make them feel real, to wash out the villainous colour and bring them violently and viciously down to earth.

Unlike so many artists who overly photo-reference and yes Greg Horn springs immediately to mind, he doesn't sacrifice movement and energy when doing this. His individual panels can be a little static I guess, but his page design and panel composition (look at me using big words I probably don't quite get!) breathe life into those static images and Daredevil swings, villains punch with real force, damage is dealt. It's really an incredible piece of work across the entire run. To say he is perfect for the stories Bendis writes would be an understatement, it's one of those writer / artist team-ups that truly brings the best out of both and each elevates the other. A marriage made in heaven... something poor ol' Matt will never know. Another DD trope that this run deals with!

(https://i.imgur.com/35qsjoJ.png)
Copyright - Marvel Comics and not the folks who made them

Matt Hollingsworth's colours also need to be highlighted as well. His muted tones, his palate of blue greys for backgrounds to make the subdued crimsons of Daredevil's costume really pop are another perfect element... well I say that but there's a bit of me that would love to see Klaus Janson colour this. His richer, more stark colours would make for a really interesting experiment. I'm not sure it would work as well, but I'd sure love to see it as an interesting contrast!

So across 48 issues Bendis, Maleev and Hollingsworth produce a really coherent, solid tale. It's hard, gritty stuff. Daredevil takes punishment both physically and mentally... mind he dishes out the same. It's a great example of the team being perfect for the story and that story is pretty damned good. I do need to re-read and I do wonder if it will hold up as well in my eyes now but it's well deserving of its place on the list and heck who knows might be even better on re-read?

The whole thing does end on an almighty cliffhanger, which is kinda central to the identity being revealed storyline, but it's still a satisfying ending in its own way. The run that follows and picks up that cliffhanger by Ed Brubaker and Michael Lark is well worth picking up anyway, though didn't quite make the list as there's quite enough DD on here already!

(https://i.imgur.com/qYSrKg5.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics and not the folks who made them

Where to find it

There have been lots of omnibuses and trades (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=daredevil+by+bendis+and+maleev&crid=2SFA2PC86ELK5&sprefix=Daredevil+by+bendis+and+%2Caps%2C64&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_5_24) of this run, but they seem to be at various stages of in-printness (that's probably a word?).

So I think 3 large collections or 11 single arc based trades in total. It can be a little tricky to track the lot down BUT if you are patient in the after market (or come to a Sheffield Comic Mart when I'm selling) you should find them easily enough. I got a full set of floppies (thus having all the trades for sale!) for the whole of vol.2 for about £100, which is really good value and gets you some great comics aside from the Bendis run.

They are all available digitally as well.

Learn more

For anything and everything Daredevil related Man without fear.com (https://www.manwithoutfear.com/daredevil-creators/Brian-Michael-Bendis) should always be your first port of call. That link takes you to a specific page detailing all of the Bendis issues in Volume 2

Again no Obligatory Wikipedia page as this specific run doesn't have a separate entry. But there are plenty of reviews of the individual collections, particularly the omnibuses just a Google search away.

Mars will send no more (https://marswillsendnomore.wordpress.com/2021/03/30/the-big-box-of-comics-daredevil-by-bendis-and-maleev/) does a short and snappy write up of Omnibuses 1 and 2 for example.

If you just want to see the highlights Chasing Amazing (https://www.chasingamazingblog.com/2015/04/22/great-moments-from-the-brian-michael-bendisalex-maleev-daredevil-run/) has a Greatest Moments from the run which is fun...

Behind the scenes, comics (https://atomicjunkshop.com/your-bendis-maleev-daredevil-timeline/) gives a nice little timeline of events, as these stories can jump around a little chronologically, just one of Bendis' little tricks that though he does rather over use, doesn't get in the way of the story and do on occasion enhance them.

Finally there's also a number of decent videos on the run Matt Draper (https://youtu.be/dGIfWz6QEqY?si=nktWQFd0sN6XRKjF) has an excellent YouTube channel and is a big fan of DD. I don't entirely agree with everything he says on the linked video but that's a good thing, different perspectives are useful.

I've never read any Daredevil but just wanted to say that I read a chunk of that Avengers run back in the 80s and really enjoyed it at the time.
As a kid, if I was lucky I would get Marvels Star Wars and Secret Wars comics and it means I've a real affection for that era of Marvel: old school Thor and Xmen, The West Coast Avengers, villains like Titania, Absorbing Man and The Wrecking Crew and so on. I've tried a few times to get back into Marvel comics since but I've always found them not to my taste. Reading short runs like these would probably be better for me as one of the things I really dislike is the way they're both mired in continuity and have a real lack of permeance/impact for any real actions.

Anyway, two more cool, impassioned writeups here Colin, great stuff!

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 27 November, 2023, 10:30:28 AM...As a kid, if I was lucky I would get Marvels Star Wars and Secret Wars comics and it means I've a real affection for that era of Marvel: old school Thor and Xmen, The West Coast Avengers, villains like Titania, Absorbing Man and The Wrecking Crew and so on...

Actually wish I'd cottoned on to this when I was doing my write ups for these two as they both represent formative comics for me as I get into American comics.

The Avengers run was one that featured when I first got into comics in the mid 80s. The Bendis Daredevils has a similar place for when I got back into comics in the early 2000s after my wilderness years. Interesting that they appear so close together on my list then... wellllll... it is to me anyway!

I also read those Marvel UK Secret Wars comics as I was getting into US comics and while they don't make the list I do remember them very fondly. Loved the Alpha Flight back-ups in them as I recall.

I have the issues in the loft but have just preordered Feburary's Modern Epic Collection (https://forbiddenplanet.com/405884-daredevil-modern-era-epic-collection-underboss/) which I guess is the first quarter?

I haven't read your entry for Bendis' Daredevil run as I want to avoid spoilers, as just looking at the art alone has made me want to buy it. There are times I really, really love his work (Alias is one of my all time favourite series, and Scarlet's pretty great too) but others start out well but kind of run out of steam (Guardians of the Galaxy being the main example of this, though I didn't get on with The Pulse either). Anyway, this has gone on to my Amazon wish list, and I'll hopefully get it early in 2024 once Christmas and the New Year are out of the way, and I look forward to reading your thoughts on it once I've finished it. :)

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 27 November, 2023, 10:30:28 AMI've tried a few times to get back into Marvel comics since but I've always found them not to my taste. Reading short runs like these would probably be better for me as one of the things I really dislike is the way they're both mired in continuity and have a real lack of permeance/impact for any real actions.

Same here.
The Bendis/Maleev run was my first dip into Marvel since I was a kid and I was enthralled. But I followed it for too long and it got all Marvelly on me.

Quote from: Tomwe on 27 November, 2023, 11:07:53 AMI have the issues in the loft but have just preordered Feburary's Modern Epic Collection (https://forbiddenplanet.com/405884-daredevil-modern-era-epic-collection-underboss/) which I guess is the first quarter?

That one seems to have his earlier arc I don't really discuss here and Underboss the first arc of the ongoing run covered in my post only. Lots of nice stuff in there, including an arc drawn by our own Phil Winslade, but not much of the Bendis run. I reckon the next one is likely to be all Bendis though.

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 27 November, 2023, 11:38:22 AMI haven't read your entry for Bendis' Daredevil run as I want to avoid spoilers, as just looking at the art alone has made me want to buy it.

Cool beans! Hope you enjoy it the Alex Maleev art is really something.

Quote from: JohnW on 27 November, 2023, 12:34:04 PMThe Bendis/Maleev run was my first dip into Marvel since I was a kid and I was enthralled. But I followed it for too long and it got all Marvelly on me.

Oh interesting. Even when they bring in more heros its done in shadows and typically out of costume as if Bendis and Maleev were embarrassed it was so sited in MCU.

I did drop off DD buying for a while with Shadowlands - which though by Andy Diggle, who I thought would be a great fit - was absolutely terrible. Some subsequent DD runs after that might well make the list though...

Peeps been raving about Chip Zdarsky's recent run.

Anyone on here read it? Is it raveworthy?

There's an omnibus of it incoming which I'd be interested in picking up.

Quote from: karlos on 27 November, 2023, 01:20:17 PMPeeps been raving about Chip Zdarsky's recent run.

Anyone on here read it? Is it raveworthy?

There's an omnibus of it incoming which I'd be interested in picking up.

I've read his second volume and it was fine, not my Daredevil but then I have a LOT of my Daredevil so its good to see the character being taken in all sorts of different directions. Those issues lent in heavily in the brilliant Nocenti run and are worth a read, but not one of the classic runs for me.

The first volume seems to be the one that gets all the praise and have that digitally but not read it yet, its reputation speaks so highly of it though.

What's this Wednesday post. Well this week we'll get the first of my 'Bonus' post - quite who thinks more of this will be a bonus I don't know. So I'll be back tomorrow with something a little different... oh kinda different still me whittering on at relentless lenght about comics!

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 124 - Lazarus

Keywords: Image; Ongoing; Sci-fi; dystopian future;

Creators:
Writer -  Greg Rucka
Art - Michael Lark
Colours - Santi Arcas

Publisher: Image

No. issues: 41 + 3 RPG source books!
Date of Publication: 2013 - date

Last read: Ongoing - so I've not done a reread yet

It's interesting to me I'm only 10 entries into my top 100 and there's already three entries when I've typed, grim and grounded far too much. I'm getting a little tired of it already and I think that's why a lot of the comics that force my limited vocabulary to resort to those cliches are at this end of the chart. They are still great comics but there's only so much grim and gritty I can take!

(https://i.imgur.com/o49rLxr.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

The series is set in a dystopian future (another phrase I'll almost certainly over use in this series of posts!). Modern society broke down a number of decades ago and all the world's power, money and resources is controlled by 16 families across the world. The relative few they employ due to their useful skills, be it industrial, scientific, military etc are 'Serfs', each 'lucky' enough to be entirely indebted to one of these families for their evaluated status. 'Lucky' as the rest of the world's population is 'Waste' forced to live in the barren wilderness, and scrap out a very meagre existence on the little that is left for them. Basically today's society nudged a little to the right!

Forever Carlyle is a Lazarus, of the title, the chosen warrior of the Carlyle Family (when they say Family they mean it.) which rules half of North America. Each Family has a Lazarus to represent them in combat if a dispute needs to be settled in a (soon to be vain) attempt to prevent expensive wars. These Lazaruses... Lazarui... warriors are genetically enhanced to be near immortal and able to heal from almost any wound short of beheading.

(https://i.imgur.com/z4nPWSZ.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

The comics initially examine Forever, her place in the Carlyle family, consisting of patriarch Malcolm Carlyle, her father and her four apparent siblings. The politics between the Families and their patriarchs / matriarchs is slowly laid out and as the series develops the reader is given a wider view of the world as the lives of Serfs and Waste are explored, the waste desperate to get choosen in the 'lift' to show their skills in an attempt to can become Serfs.

Oh and there's plenty of violence, action, espionage and political machinations along the way. Before tensions between two of the biggest Families the aforementioned Carlyles and the Hocks reach a head and war breaks out between them. Forcing all the families to choose a side.

I mean it all sounds a bit like Nikolai Dante, but it's really not the same below the surface. There are some shared themes, exploring family, how the poor are brutalised by the powerful, how war is so destructive and devastating... but all that aside, unlike a lot of comics that appear on my list Lazarus doesn't feel like a 2000ad story. Its pacing is different and while it doesn't lack for excitement it doesn't have that 6 page thrill pump that 2000ad stories do. It uses the time and space its format allows and builds its tale at a steady pace, enabling mystery, intrigue and tension to creep up. That's not to say one way is better than the other, just that it's different and Lazarus uses those differences to maximum effect.

(https://i.imgur.com/wf53NNq.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

World building is a large part of this series. It's clear, even with the stories that Rucka and Lark craft around Forever and her family that there is a deep and rich understanding of the world she inhabits. As the story expands different aspects are shown in detail. The depth of the world they create is evident by the fact that while the series was in one of its hiatus between storylines three RPG sourcebooks were created detailing that world in exquisite detail. Together these total over 150 pages of material for some established gaming system or other. Alongside this there is plenty of back matter in each issue providing more and more depth.

None of this stuff is superfluous, it's not just self pleasuring nonsense from the creators. It helps to embed the political commentary that the series is so rich in. It adds substance to the world and the reflections it has on modern society really well. You don't need to read any of this stuff, but all of it adds to the experience and makes the world feel complete and real. The actions in it have sharper consequences.

(https://i.imgur.com/7aAggmK.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Relentless world building, political commentary, steady pacing in the wrong hands can lead to a dry read. Not at all, as with Nikolai Dante there is plenty of melodrama to counter all that. For all the sharp reflections on modern times this comic never forgets its an action adventure comic. Okay the melodrama might not be as obvious as that in Dante, but it's there and not shy in coming forward. The human stories are only enhanced by the geo-political scaffolding used to prop it all up. For all the big stuff, the weighty issues the reader is never allowed to forget this is first and foremost the story of Forever trying to find her place in this world and family and the way it can twist and distort that search for identity.

It's a finely balanced piece of work delicately balancing the future opera elements with relatable human tales. It's deftly done. Michael Lark's art helps with that. Again (as with Alex Maleev in last post 125) I'm not 100% sure how he constructs his work. It seems to be largely photo referenced. This serves to ground the gritty and real elements of the tale, yet Lark is able to avoid that style dampening movement, energy and human emotion. Another deft balancing act supremely achieved.

(https://i.imgur.com/UYJDOLo.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Just as the story has been steadily paced so has the publication. We're now 10 years into the series run and we have 28 issues of the regular series, a six issue mini called X+66 which gave focus to individual members of the supporting cast from across Lazarus' society. After that the main story continued with seven issues of Risen, each of which being 64 pages with at least 40 of the main comic series, so really double single issue count, with lots of supporting material.

We've not hit the end yet. Rucka and Lark have promised one more mini series which is being created as I type... well maybe not literally I dunno. It was due out at the end of this year (2023) but is likely not to be seen until spring 2024 at the earliest. This will be much curtailed from the original ambition of 150 issues, but given the way the world has changed since it first started that might not, sadly, be a bad thing. If Rucka and Lark did go for 150 issues at this pace the whole thing might be all too prophetic to be seen as dystopian sci-fi by the time they hit this mark!

How well the ending lands will in part determine the position of this series in future iterations of this list (don't worry I have no plans at this stage!). At the time of typing its a really effective, exciting political thriller told through the lens of militaristic action. The tone and themes feel very familiar, its not doing anything earth shattering (as surrounding write-up attest to!) but what it does, it does really, really well.

(https://i.imgur.com/1qN2tGU.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Where to find it

Well we've not finished so you can get the ending live as floppies when it comes out. To catch up with the story to date there are four chunky collections (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=lazarus+rucka+collection&crid=1XMZOO2V8KBTI&sprefix=lazarus+rucka+collection%2Caps%2C82&ref=nb_sb_noss_2) of the story up to the end of X+66 and the RPG source books.

I'm not sure that Risen has been collected yet. I reckon they might release that ahead of the start of the final series to get folks warmed up (??)

As ever the aftermarket and patience is your friend. However good the series is, it has not generated any heat in the back issue market and you can pick this up before the telly series is surely announced!?!

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_(comics))

Image provided a summary (https://imagecomics.com/features/everything-you-need-to-know-about-lazarus-before-reading-risen) of the series ahead of the start of Risen.

Paste Magazine (https://www.pastemagazine.com/comics/greg-rucka/why-arent-you-reading-lazarus-by-greg-rucka-michae) provides a decent review of the earlier issues (from 2016)

All the standard reviewing places will give you feedback on the collections etc.

Lazarus is yet another Image series that is deeply frustrating solely because of how slow it's progressing. I really liked reading it. I blazed though the HCs (which, if folks are interested, are now all in general availability again, presumably only for a short while). I went back and re-read them, picking up additional nuance. But I'm so ready for it to be done, rather than left hanging for years and years. And that's a pity, because the scope here is epic, and we should really be on the fifth or sixth HC collection, building towards a conclusion, rather than hearing there might be one more chunky volume to end the run. Sigh.

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 27 November, 2023, 10:30:28 AMI've tried a few times to get back into Marvel comics since but I've always found them not to my taste.

Outside of toy tie-ins (Zoids; Transformers), I read little Marvel as a kid – mostly Spider-Man. Some years back, I discovered the Panini reprints were all being rebooted and bought a bunch of them. They were breezy and interesting, and I subscribed to most of them. Gradually, I let the subs lapse, primarily because three things became clear. First, the treadmill, with themes and ideas coming up again and again. Secondly, the tendency of Marvel to think it's very exciting when big characters ostensibly on the same side end up punching each other. Thirdly, the lack of any consequence whatsoever in the entire universe, because when someone wants to ret-con anything, they invariably do.

Around the same time, I also bought for a song a TON of back issues of these lines, which are now taking up way too much space in the garage that's earmarked for 1) future Progs and 2) mini-G Beano archive, and so I'm wading through them. They're mostly early-to-mid-2000s strips, with a smattering of classic runs.

Spidey was interesting. I enjoyed chunks of the stories that I recalled reading in Spider-Man and Zoids, but once he and MJ get married, the creative team changes and it becomes unreadable. Spider-Man 2099, brief snatches of which excited me as a kid, was intolerable today. And the modern run was really engaging until the soft reboot of Brand New Day, whereupon it became throwaway and quippy.

With the other strips, I mostly found myself gravitating to very specific runs, which I subsequently bought in HC. Matt Fraction's Hawkeye is fantastic comics. Slott's Silver Doctor Surfer Who run. Ms. Marvel. Aaron/Bachalo Doctor Strange. Tom King's Vision. These for me are equals to many of my favourites elsewhere, from 2000 AD or Image. Most of Marvel, I realised in the end, is the superhero equivalent of a soap opera. And that's fine. I'll happily read through all my Panini collections and then offload them on eBay. But I imagine once I'm finished with them, I'm not going to be reading a great deal of Marvel ever again.

Good series, Lazarus. I didn't realise they were ending it earlier than planned although I'm ok with that if they end it well. I've got the three big hardback collections and feel like I've been waiting ages for the next one.

Enjoying your write-ups Col! Quite tempted to try Orbital next year.

Cheers, Col!

And put me down as a fellow Nocenti DD fan!

Thanks Colin, Lazarus looks good. And Xmas is coming up...

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Not on the list - Saga

As part of creating the list of my Top 100 I thought almost as much about the series that didn't make the list as about those that did. Part of the understanding of why I like the comics I do so much is getting under the bonnet of why I'm not as big a fan of some series / runs that commonly appear on such listings, or are widely regarded as classics and I want to unpick that in a series of posts that will slip into the more positive posts to get closer to that.

The first such entry is a bit of a soft one, it's arguably not as glaring an omission as some will be, yet it does start to unpeel some interesting bias that I need to acknowledge. So why doesn't Saga make the list?

(https://i.imgur.com/w4CzaZe.jpg)

Saga is an ongoing series from Brian K Vaughan and Fiona Staples, published by Image. It's a space opera following the adventures of a pair of star crossed lovers of two different alien races who are on opposing sides of an intergalactic war. It's Romeo and Juliet if they'd survived their families conflict and gone on to have a child while escaping a cast of cool space bounty hunters and that war.

The series is currently just over its halfway mark, according to the creators and clocks in at 60 plus issues to date I believe. It started in 2013 and became the poster child for the post Walking Dead creator owned series boom from Image comics. That kind of irks me. Lazarus, which started during that boom as well, is much better and more interesting and gets half the praise and acclaim of this series for some reason and that's why I'm noting Saga here.

 It quickly found a very healthy audience and great critical and fan acclaim. In its first run, the series took an extended hiatus between 2018 having reached its halfway mark, returning in 2022 to much fanfare, it swept up awards. Winning Eisners and Harvey Awards a plenty. This series is a success on just about every level.

To add to that on paper Saga has all the elements of a series that should be on this list. I like Brian K Vaughan, a number of his creator owned works will be appearing on my list. The art from Fiona Staples is simply stella, it's amazing and her alien and world building designs are quite exemplify. And indeed I was happily picking this up in trades for much of the first run... but then...

... After the 7th Trade for whatever reason I managed to miss the 8th coming out and it drifted from my mind. When I realised I'd missed a couple of trades I just felt no compulsion to catch up and I no longer picked up anything. I've dropped off the series entirely and to be honest have no real desire to get back on board and after flicking through the trades I had I simply shrugged my shoulders, realised I wasn't going to read them again and off to the 'For Sale' pile they went.

The reason? Well I just didn't trust it, I didn't feel it was honest, it felt so manufactured, like the perfect popband.

Let me try to explain.

I remember Marc Riley (the radio DJ) explaining why he didn't like Bruce Springsteen - look this will be relevant okay, trust me... he said that he just didn't find his music authentic. All Bruce's blue collar heroics didn't ring true to him. It felt artificial, too considered and planned. Almost cynical. And I think that's how I felt about Saga (I will note for all my indie kid credentials I do love Bruce Springsteen!).

I didn't trust the characters, they read too cool, too much like so many NuDoctor Who assistants, all sass and quick one-liners, all sharp dialogue and cutting wit. They didn't ring true to me. Alana and Marko - the lead star crossed lovers - really started to grate on me and rather than be pulled into their arduous journey, their many fold trails I was being pushed further and further away from caring to the point where reading the comics became an exercise it appreciating the ideas, loving the art, liking the theme that the comic was really attempting to examine, what it's like to be a parent. Ultimately though not caring less about many of the characters. It read to me as an exercise in comic creators making a set of notes on how to make comic characters cool yet relatable and injecting those into their cast. I'm sure it wasn't but that was my unshakable take.

I know this isn't the experience of the vast majority of folks who read the series and this comic does seem to have done that most important of things and reached an audience outside regular comic buyers and that's fantastic. Just for me, nope didn't buy into things at all. As with most things that will get a write up on this subset of posts, it's not Saga, it really isn't, it's me.

There's another factor as well and one I'm a little more worried about.

I did enjoy the first few trades I really did. This was good comics, never great, but good comics. The fact that it was getting hailed by all corners of the comics-sphere, had heaps of praise piled on heaps of praise, was so many folks favourite also... well irked me. It rubbed me up the wrong way. I think this exposes a bias I have. When something is exalted, held on high, paraded as the comic to beat all comics and I don't get behind that it can actually make me via the other way. Even though I like these comics fine I was put off by the fact I didn't like them anywhere near as much as others. I questioned what it was I was missing. What didn't I get that others clearly did and that may have affected my judgement.

Is it as simple as having your expectations raised to a point that when they aren't matched, so I feel let down? Or is it more subconscious and I'm made to feel insecure about the fact that I'm not seeing the things that others do? I think there might be better examples of this as we look at more comics not on my list, or even the placing of some on it. Do I push against that praise as either I don't feel in with the 'in crowd', or as smart as folks who do get the layers in things. I worry this is what it really might be. I mean it could of course be that I bring different needs to the comics I read that everyone else - we all do on some level - and so they aren't meeting the needs I have where they are with others, a key understanding we need to get to so we can start to understand the impact we the reader have on the comics we read and what we get form them. I'm bringing different things to the table and so get different things out.

Likely I think it's a bit of all of that and I find that fascinating. Something that I think comes out particularly strongly in 2000ad fandom. The fact that 2000ad is an anthology that's lasted almost 50 years means it offers so much diversity in its stories and the reading needs it can satisfy for its readers. 2000ad fans have such varied opinions about the comic itself and their reading beyond 2000ad which is part of why I love the Galaxy's Greatest's fandom so much. We find kinship in the very things that exposes our differences. And Saga just didn't meet the needs I brought to it, but is a very good comics that meets the needs of so many folks absolutely perfectly. And good for it, just not for me.

Mind I do still call Indie, our cat, 'Lying Cat' whenever she claims to have not been fed when I bloody well know she has!

If you have not read Saga you are missing out. One of the best series I have read. I will have to make a plan when the newly released episodes are collected since I have them digitally and are boycotting ComiXology currently

Quote from: broodblik on 30 November, 2023, 08:09:25 AMIf you have not read Saga you are missing out. One of the best series I have read. I will have to make a plan when the newly released episodes are collected since I have them digitally and are boycotting ComiXology currently

Yeah as I said this defo seems to be the prevailing view so regardless of the fact that it bounced off me a little, as I said I thought the chunks I read were good, just not great, I'm very much in the minority and its clear that Saga is worth checking out if it sounds up your street.

I dropped off Saga I believe around 2016, it was just going in a direction that didn't endear itself to me and the shift in focal characters wasn't helping.

But thats just to my personal tastes, i'm sure it's maintained a pretty loyal readership even through the now oft-bemoaned Image hiatus'. I may, someday, return to it for a full reread.

Saga's an interesting one. There are moments in it that make me furiously angry. But then that's kind of the point. Bad things happen. And in this universe, it appears there's plenty of permanence. That's unusual for comics – even the better ones.

I'm mostly frustrated by the delays, though. I have the first three HCs and it all feels relevant rather than meandering (which is what some claim during the last third). I get that there are reasons for said delays, but after a years-long hiatus, that issues are still dripping out irregularly makes me wonder if Saga will be a comics Game of Thrones. I hope not.

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 30 November, 2023, 11:34:31 AMBut thats just to my personal tastes, i'm sure it's maintained a pretty loyal readership even through the now oft-bemoaned Image hiatus'. I may, someday, return to it for a full reread.

I imagine I'll be the same. The fact that I've read all of Walking Dead (spoilers!) and am so lukewarm to it, but did it as it always seemed to be available for bobbins via Humble Bundle gives me hope that some future YNWA will get to read all Saga when its done as its markedly better than Walking Dead.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 30 November, 2023, 12:37:00 PMI'm mostly frustrated by the delays, though. I have the first three HCs and it all feels relevant rather than meandering (which is what some claim during the last third). I get that there are reasons for said delays, but after a years-long hiatus, that issues are still dripping out irregularly makes me wonder if Saga will be a comics Game of Thrones. I hope not.

Still the Image models biggest problem (well that and apparently how the treat their back office staff?) its so hard to trust that you will get the story you are tease with. Always good reason for that, my desire and investment in a story pales when compared to the work that has to go into producing them. Either way it becomes a negative feedback cycle. Its more and more of a risk to get on board with a title promised as ongoing, so less folks will, so less of those titles are able to see it through.

Mark Russell (many others) get around that with the series of minis model. Never quite as satisfying but if its the model that allows story to come out then so be it.

Quote from: karlos on 29 November, 2023, 02:46:22 PMAnd put me down as a fellow Nocenti DD fan!

Cool Beans... though I hope you can be patient for me to get to discussing it... hint hint!

I never quite understood the love for TWD. I bought it on Humble but never managed to trudge through the entire thing. To me, it had no realism. It read like EastEnders half the time, or – worse – a juvenile take on interpersonal relationships that reminded me more of a school than adults interacting in in apocalypse. The big bad's were cartoons. A major character's major injury early on was a terrible decision.

I admit I skipped to the end. And that last issue was... fine? But I'm not sure I can be arsed to go back and read everything in between.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 01 December, 2023, 07:44:16 AMI never quite understood the love for TWD. I bought it on Humble but never managed to trudge through the entire thing. To me, it had no realism. It read like EastEnders half the time, or – worse – a juvenile take on interpersonal relationships that reminded me more of a school than adults interacting in in apocalypse. The big bad's were cartoons. A major character's major injury early on was a terrible decision.

This is a general issue I have with Kirkman. I was a fairly loyal reader of Invincible right up until the end, but something nagged me on my reread leading up to the final run of issues
The series that had spoke to me as an angsty edgy teenager and young adult now felt sour, ugly even. Kirkmans politics better reflecting a soap opera parody of pubescent nihilism other anything of actual substance.
I had a similar experience with my long readership with Erik Larsens Savage Dragon, which though I still applaud for it's longevity with Erik remaining as sole writer and illustrator, came to find over time just feels po-faced and dreary while maintaining an air of smug self importance.

In short, it's kinda gratifying to have that epiphany you don't settle for the lowest common denominator anymore.

Cheers Colin, enjoying this thread, nothing I've read here yet, but a few I've been curious about.

 

I had a similar reaction to Saga as you Colin. In theory I should love it but I became disengaged after a few of trades because I realised I was waiting to feel really invested and it wasn't happening. I read everything up to the hiatus but am not bothered about picking it up again. The whole thing has a kind of glossy sheen to it in terms of characters, plotting and art that feels conspicuously designed. I mean I know it was all designed, of course. But I feel like it was designed with a specific type of reader response in mind and I just didn't respond like that. Even though the characters can be irritating or engaging, which should mean they feel more flawed or fully formed, to me it seems somehow contrived or inauthentic. And their journey just... wasn't that interesting? The designs are great but again the art has this polished quality to it that doesn't engage me. Actually the series feels like when everyone loves a glossy US tv show I don't get.

 A lot of people love it though so that's grand.

Same with Bruce Springsteen. I once read someone saying they found his stuff a bit like a big broadway musical version of working class anthems, which they found a bit inauthentic, but other folk hear it as the genuine article. I realise I am saying nothing deep here, just that some people react differently to others!

Quote from: Proudhuff on 01 December, 2023, 03:09:18 PMCheers Colin, enjoying this thread, nothing I've read here yet, but a few I've been curious about.

Its a genuine pleasure - not just giving you joy you fine man you, but starting this thread.

Really wasn't sure how much of a response I'd get here and did think it might just become a journal of my thoughts seen by next to no one.

As it is thanks to all the ACE comments and enthusiasum of you folks its become a really cool place for comics chat with my posts just there to fire up the conversation. Its as more than I dared hoped so thank you folks and let's keep it up... well be warned I will be doing so regardless!

I've only read the first Saga book, really enjoyed it and was looking forward to picking up the next one.
Your post has made me second guess myself a bit though. 😂

But I think I still might continue it. I see it as just a light fun read anyway.The worst I can say about it is that I had the feeling the writer was just kind of making it up as he went along with no overarching story in mind.

The question of things feeling authentic regarding fiction or moreso music like Bruce Springsteen.
I think it just comes down to wheter you like the music or not. If you enjoy it then you give it a freepass for being inauthentic. If you dislike the music then the phoniness of the singer just helps to affirm your opinion.
Like I'm pretty sure very few fans of Tom Waits really believe he's a hobo out there riding the rails with a knapsack on a stick.
Yet people who dislike him will find this hobo persona ridiculous and use that to criticise him.

Perhaps in fiction/comics though, things feeling overly contrived can be harder to accept as reading takes more engagement than listening to music generally does.

Hi Colin,
Loved reading this thread, Logged on for the first time in years so I can comment.
I recently moved back to my home country of New Zealand, and after hauling my comics collection out of 10 years storage went through and sold about of half of it.  The major criteria for selling something was "Can see myself ever reading this again?"- with the added thought that "10 years in storage - did I miss it?" 
Anyhows that's just a bit of background to where some of my comments about your list are coming from. 

I'll start with the series you mentioned as not being on the list cos you've not read them:

100 Bullets - I read Azzarello's 'Hellblazer' before this, and 100 Bullets I actually collected for about the first 40 issues. Both his 'Hellblazer' and '100 Bullets" I rate lowly for the same reasons: they're bleak, dark, nihiistic, and almost gleeful in presenting unpleasant characters and scenarios that get dangerously close to caricature, - but then he doesn't have much to say about them - a comparison would be Brubaker's 'Criminal' - horrible flawed people in terrible situations, but still people, along with a sense of "there but for the grace of god"- what would I do in their situation?

Preacher - barrington Boots in his post (#25) nails it - although I never found any of the 90s humour funny even in the 90s when I first read it (and never finished it).       

Ghost World - I know I've read this and enjoyed, as a 20 something - can't remember much about it TBH

Starman - solid superhero comics avoids the DC/Johns "Grim and Gritty"TM, tells its tale and ends.  I enjoyed it very much, can't see myself reading it ever again though - out it went. Borrow it from the library, see what you think.

Blankets - a "worthy" "literary" read - good, but if I'm being honest, not what I read comics for. I can read a book if I want "literary". Borrow it from the library.

Black Hole - a "literary" comic that is a also a comic - the art and story together do what a novel alone cannot. 

Fables - I enjoyed this up until the point where the Fables defeated the villain - where Willingham's political subtext became too distasteful for me to ignore and continue reading - also without the villain the series lost much of its focus.

Astro City - I love Astro City, perfect almost nostalgic superhero comics - very well done with the advantage that being the vision of a single creator the continuity hangs together.  Will I read them again? Nope, sold them. Will I keep up with the series from the local library as it buys the TPBs? - absolutely.

Chris Ware/ Jason - never read.

Scott Pilgrim -  great fun. Try to read in one run in front of cosy fire on a rainy day :-)

Blacksad - I'm not a great fan of detective/thriller novels, but this has the visuals, which is what makes it for me - and I'm a sucker for historical fiction in comics. I also find non-American writers' takes on Americam genre fiction to often be more interesting than those of actual American writers.

Grandville - alt-history, Bryan Talbot art. Fantastic stuff. I can highly recommend it.  I just read it again for the 2nd time last week, and loved it all over again. 



       

Wow cool Kiwijohn.

Of those I've now got Preacher and fromm the comments here I do wonder how it hold up???

I've picked up Ghost World in a Complete Eightball I treated myself to after some recent sales (along with Ducks and Street Angel) as I loved the issues I had back in the day and having been wanting to catch up with Daniel Clowes.

I'm really weary of Fables as I'm aware of the political undertones and think they will really jarr with me.

Scott Pilgram I almost picked up in a recent Humble Bundle but decided against so... actually why did I do that????

I think Grandville and Blackhole will be the next purchases from my list of obvious omissions and hear such good things about both and both should be right up my alley.

That list was amazing kiwijohn - chuffed you decided to join in the chat.

Preacher is a funny one for me. At the time I thought it was the Best Comic Ever. It's partially responsible for me going off 2000ad at the time, as late teen me found this edgy fare to make 2000ad seem immature by comparison.
Ironically my introduction to preacher was through the megazine reprints.

When I think back on it now, all the things that made it seem adult to me then, make it seem far more immature than the average 2000ad story now.

I have a full set of the books here and I dont think I'll try reading them again. Without having to read it, its gone from my favourite comic to actively disliking it.

I read the first 100 Bullets book way back too, but it didnt make much of an impression.
Like you say KiwiJohn, its just overly nihilistic and dull. And no humour in it to give you a break.

I have a couple of Jason books and like them both. His books are really short so you might as well read them if you have them.
I reread the left bank gang last week and its a fun light read especially if you are interested in that generation of writers living in Paris.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 02 December, 2023, 07:30:27 AMWow cool Kiwijohn.

Of those I've now got Preacher and fromm the comments here I do wonder how it hold up???

I've picked up Ghost World in a Complete Eightball I treated myself to after some recent sales (along with Ducks and Street Angel) as I loved the issues I had back in the day and having been wanting to catch up with Daniel Clowes.

I'm really weary of Fables as I'm aware of the political undertones and think they will really jarr with me.

Scott Pilgram I almost picked up in a recent Humble Bundle but decided against so... actually why did I do that????

I think Grandville and Blackhole will be the next purchases from my list of obvious omissions and hear such good things about both and both should be right up my alley.

That list was amazing kiwijohn - chuffed you decided to join in the chat.

If we're talking anthropomorphic detective comics, Grandville towers above Blacksad for me. I found it wittier, warmer, the characters more engaging and the plots more satisfying. It's outstanding.

I like Daniel Clowes's stuff a lot - Icehaven, The Death Ray and Patience are among my favourites - and Velvet Glove if you like the films of David Lynch.

Quote from: Blue Cactus on 02 December, 2023, 10:08:33 PM

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 02 December, 2023, 07:30:27 AMWow cool Kiwijohn.

Of those I've now got Preacher and fromm the comments here I do wonder how it hold up???

I've picked up Ghost World in a Complete Eightball I treated myself to after some recent sales (along with Ducks and Street Angel) as I loved the issues I had back in the day and having been wanting to catch up with Daniel Clowes.

I'm really weary of Fables as I'm aware of the political undertones and think they will really
 jarr with me.

Scott Pilgram I almost picked up in a recent Humble Bundle but decided against so... actually why did I do that????

I think Grandville and Blackhole will be the next purchases from my list of obvious omissions and hear such good things about both and both should be right up my alley.

That list was amazing kiwijohn - chuffed you decided to join in the chat.

If we're talking anthropomorphic detective comics, Grandville towers above Blacksad for me. I found it wittier, warmer, the characters more engaging and the plots more satisfying. It's outstanding.

I like Daniel Clowes's stuff a lot - Icehaven, The Death Ray and Patience are among my favourites - and Velvet Glove if you like the films of David Lynch.

yes Colin, I'd be curious to hear your view of Preacher especially since you're coming to it as a first reader almost 25 years after it was written.

You and Blue Cactus have persuaded me to look for Daniel Clowes in my local library - looks like there is a very good selection - https://discover.aucklandlibraries.govt.nz/search?query=daniel%20clowes&searchType=everything&pageSize=10

Blue Cactus - if pushed, I'd have to agree with you on Grandville vs Blacksad, but I like them both for different reasons really.
 (Speaking of Grandville and Bryan Talbot, I hesitated on Alice in Sunderland for a long time - wondering whether the history of an English port town held relevance to me here in New Zealand - but after reading it I found that many of the themes resonated - especially since NZ has been taken in by the same kind of neo-liberal trickle-down BS that has effectively destroyed the UK economy - the main difference for NZ is that we still have exports that others want ie: food. (but not for long if vat-grown protein becomes economically viable)

Interesting debate on 'Saga' too - I haven't picked up Saga because 1/ I didn't really like the premise 2/ SF comics I almost invariably compare to 2000AD,and most fall short 3/ I also read a lot of SF novels and for me good comicbook SF has to stand up against them (most US SF comics I don't rate as SF, they're space opera ala Star Trek/Wars), 4/ I absolutely hated his Y-The Last Man - great world-building for the first issues then it got bogged down in tedious relationships and totally whiffed the ending with a pseudo-mystical handwave...


 

Onto THE LIST:
Copperhead, I did read the first few issues as they came out, and decided to wait for the trades - then went overseas and lost track completely. I agree that Copperhead wouldn't be at all out of place in 2000AD or the Meg - which is high praise as far as I'm concerned.  As I alluded to above, I inevitably end up comparing  comicbook Sf (whether US, BD or Manga) to 2000AD, and much falls short.  I do have a similar situation with movie/TV SF - I end up comparing it to the likes of Sapphire and Steel, Dr Who, the Tomorrow People or Blake's 7. (NZ in my 70s childhood really was a cultural colony of the UK). 




 

The closest thing in 2000 AD to Saga is probably the similarly incomplete Brass Sun.

I like both of them. Saga can be a bit brutal, but it's never dull.

Preacher's a weird one for me, I read it online in 2007 when I was all but bed bound for six months after breaking my leg really badly (in what is a surprisingly dull story I'll probably tell when I've a bit more time) and I enjoyed it a good deal, there were a few "Oh, Garth, really?" moments but mostly I found it fun. But then after a lucky charity shop find I reread it after the tv series had started and, well, I still like about half of it, but I do have issues with the way Jesse treats Tulip, and some of the gross out humour felt a bit dated. I'm glad I own it, but at the same time I'd be surprised if I read it a third time.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 123 - Fatale

Keywords: Image; horror; Brubaker and Phillips; Era spanning; Lovecraftian

Creators:
Writer -  Ed Brubaker
Art - Sean Phillips
Colours - David Stewart

Publisher: DC under the Vertigo imprint

No. issues: 24
Date of Publication: 2012 - 2014

Last read: 2016

Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips are a creative marriage made in heaven. They have a clear desire to tell the same sort of stories and they are both perfectly matched to create the comics they use to tell them and clearly work so well together. It was therefore a surprise when only a couple of their works, which I generally really like, made the list. Why this specific one did is therefore quite interesting to me.

(https://i.imgur.com/micZSPp.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

This is particularly true as Fatale deals with Lovecraftian, cthulhu type stuff and if I'm honest that kinda stuff doesn't really interest me... I might go as far as to so it bores the bejeezus outta me... but I'm getting ahead of myself, what is this story about?

Josephine or Jo as she is often referred to is the archetype femme fatale, little surprise given the title. She glides into people's lives and uses her inescapable charm and magnetism to enchant them into doing her bidding. She uses her superhuman charisma to manipulate men to serve her purposes, to try to escape the forces that surround her. Her ability isn't something she can control, though it provides her almost complete control of those who get caught in it. This, of course, has a significant cost to those that get entangled with her, and once used she moves on leaving them devastated.

It's the dark nature of the things she needs to escape that separate this from the typical noir tale. This isn't Criminal. Jo appears to be immortal, in her current incarnation since the early 20th Century and the series follows her moving through different eras trying to escape the grasps of a supernatural cult that wants to use her for their own elder God type machinations. Each of the arcs has an opening and closing sequence in the 'modern day as Jo's story races to a predictably tragic conclusion.

There is more though, other incarnations of Jo, or characters very similar that have lived in other times, we see mediaeval France and the Wild West. Her presence, or the powers that drive her exist across time. The similar dark forces trying to ensnare her.

(https://i.imgur.com/fUV05vZ.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

So far all I've talked about is Jo pretty much. Other characters do come in, focus is given to those she uses and the cost they bear. But really this story is centred very singularly on Jo and whether you engage with it rests largely on whether you also fall for her charms.

 I very much did.

Like the best femme fatales she knows the harm she will cause to those she uses, she feels guilt for the power and damage she will inflict. She tries to resist and understand what it is that she can do. But she is relentlessly driven. Terrified and does all she can to escape the clutches of those that pursue her regardless of the cost.

The cult that follows her is really just window dressing, a plot tool that gives motivation for Jo and a focus to allow us to sympathise with her plight. To that end while Lovecraftian things do tend to bore me, here it doesn't have a massive impact, any number of drivers might have worked and the story remains an examination of the concept of the femme fatale. This also allows the pursuing threat to suitably mysterious and vague, their desire to capture Jo and what that can mean oblique, just as Jo is.

(https://i.imgur.com/A8FeLoe.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Another major factor in my enjoyment of this is of course Sean Phillips and Ed Brubaker as said at the outset an almost perfect comics coupling. Brubaker, already discussed on this list, is superb at creating characters that inhabit dark corners of a world that feels at once grounded and 'real' yet also embroiled in the fantastic. He centres the stories he creates on people the reader can engage with and understand, the reader can relate to even as the character's worlds spin into places we can only imagine.

As said when I look at my  list and see the one other Phillips + Brubaker series that appears, and it kinda surprises me they only have two entries, it struck me the other one is a series that also has fantastical elements, not one of their 'straighter' pieces (why isn't Fade Out in the list... I do wonder about myself at times!). I think it's the fact that I do love genre fiction and the way they balance this with more 'real world' elements of many of their works really works for me.

Good as they are as a pairing it's hard to deny that Sean Phillips is the real star here, taking the characters and casting them into dark shadows and dimly lit worlds. He does this while never losing any of the subtlety of their humanity, their reactions portrayed as both real and nuanced. Yet still allowing the melodrama of the scenarios, interactions and world the characters inhabit chime through. Neither element detracts from the other and he balances things perfectly. This courses the readers to fully embrace the human elements, engage and fall into those characters. Always though emphasising that this isn't our world, we are looking into things we can't comprehend yet those things exist in a world we know and feel grounded in.

(https://i.imgur.com/v1BChln.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

As Jo is so dominant in this story it's also vital therefore that she is so perfectly realised by Phillips. He manages to make Jo astonishing, beautiful and sexual enough to believably compel men the way she does. Yet real and with the vulnerability we all have, and especially in extreme circumstances like those she lives in. He does this without leaning into bland sexualisation as so many would. Jo is so much more than her powers, yet her power over people is clear from the way Phillips draws her.

(https://i.imgur.com/VtG8fAx.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

The final thing I want to reflect on is really what they don't do. I was surprised to learn that this was originally created as a 12 issue series. That doesn't feel that it would allow the scope and range of the time scanning element and would have felt too compact. They expanded it to the 24 issues we get, which feels perfect. I do wonder if they considered taking it beyond that, as the fact that Jo and the other incarnations we see cross a vast range of time means that this could have spun on and explored other eras. It's great that it doesn't as we get to explore Jo completely with what we get and more would have felt like padding. They judge the story perfectly.

We also don't get full disclosure on Jo's powers, their origins and exactly what will happen if those that pursue her are successful. Things are alluded to, but it's never explicitly laid out. For me this is a really successful choice. It allows Jo to remain a mystery, have an element of enigma regardless of how closely we follow her during her tale. She remains forever slightly untouchable to the reader and that feels very smart to me. She is the perfect femme fatale after all.

So Fatale and Jo. If you get a knock on your office door, see a perfect figure behind its frosted glass and smell an alluring mix of sensuous perfume and tobacco smoke. Slip that whiskey bottle into your bottom draw, take your feet off the desk you sit behind and invite her in... just make sure your gun is loaded when you do.

(https://i.imgur.com/SK6cHgC.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Where to find it

There are five trades (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=fatale+phillips&rh=n%3A274081&ref=nb_sb_noss) that include the entire series and two deluxe edition hardbacks, though the first of these seems to have hit those fictional crazy prices some collections do (does anyone ever sell those things for like £150 or whatever?!?).

As ever the aftermarket is your friend and this being a nice compact 24 issues means it's not too hard or expensive to get hold of if you have that all important patience. Also reckon it'd be possible to get that first deluxe volume at a reasonable price.

Don't know if the collections include some nice back matter that Brubaker and Phillips normally include in the floppies, you like that kinda of thing it's worth tracking down the original comics.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatale_(Image_Comics))

Strange Brain Parts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iEamcA1XLE) the superb YouTube channel doesn't like it as much as me but provides a great alternative take

Image Page (https://imagecomics.com/comics/series/fatale) for the series which includes a gallery of covers. Always like those when the covers really give a nice sense of the series as these one's do.

As ever the various volumes and collections get plenty of reviews which are just a quick Google search away (add Brubaker and Phillips to that search to avoid other stuff!). I quite like this one from Lakes Festival (https://www.comicartfestival.com/sites/default/files/CL%20RRL%20Reviews%20FATALE.pdf), nice and succincent.

Brubaker and Phillips do make a great team! I think you're right about this series, the way they keep the full story just out of view and Jo remains an elusive figure you can't quite fathom. I think I found that a little perplexing on first read as I felt like it was me missing something or not grasping the full story, but like you say, that's by design isn't it. I'll bear that in mind when I come to reread it. I've read a fair bit from this creator team and with you mentioning The Fade Out, I will say I that was possibly my favourite series of theirs alongside Kill or Be Killed. Interesting to see which of their other series makes your list.

Quote from: Blue Cactus on 01 December, 2023, 06:57:02 PMSame with Bruce Springsteen. I once read someone saying they found his stuff a bit like a big broadway musical version of working class anthems, which they found a bit inauthentic, but other folk hear it as the genuine article. I realise I am saying nothing deep here, just that some people react differently to others!

Such a good analysis of Bruce Springsteen there! Music is beautifully subjective of course but this is one of the reasons I feel someone like Billy Bragg is authetic and Bruce isn't.

Also a very insightful critqiue of Kirkman from Hawk there that perfectly captures why I fell out of love with Invincible and TWD.

Anyway - I have tried and never rally engaged with Saga, but very interested to read everyones thoughts on it. Fatale isn't something I've read and I'm very interested to do so, I will check it out.

Super intrigued to read Preacher now with all the chat here. I do wonder how it will sit with me now, but excited to find out.

Alas quite a way to go before it gets to the top of the 'To read Spreadsheet' - sooo many comics to read!

On a related note do the Ennis + Dillon Hellblazers hold up? I've not read them in a long, long time but loved them as they came out.

Quote from: Blue Cactus on 02 December, 2023, 10:08:33 PMI like Daniel Clowes's stuff a lot - Icehaven, The Death Ray and Patience are among my favourites - and Velvet Glove if you like the films of David Lynch.

The newly purchased complete Eightball got a cheeky boost up that 'To Read Spreadsheet' as I spotted a gap. So looking forward to it.

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 04 December, 2023, 10:20:08 AM

Quote from: Blue Cactus on 01 December, 2023, 06:57:02 PMSame with Bruce Springsteen. I once read someone saying they found his stuff a bit like a big broadway musical version of working class anthems, which they found a bit inauthentic, but other folk hear it as the genuine article. I realise I am saying nothing deep here, just that some people react differently to others!

Such a good analysis of Bruce Springsteen there! Music is beautifully subjective of course but this is one of the reasons I feel someone like Billy Bragg is authetic and Bruce isn't.

Have to say I love them both.

I've got some of the Brubaker and Phillips books from a humble bundle. And like most things I buy on there in the £1 tier, I havent read any of them.
Maybe time to remedy that and check if Fatale is in there too.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 04 December, 2023, 04:43:55 PMOn a related note do the Ennis + Dillon Hellblazers hold up? I've not read them in a long, long time but loved them as they came out.

I think they largely do, I really love the character of Kit, there's some corking plotlines, and Ennis writes John beautifully. A couple of bits haven't aged that well, and though I love Steve Dillon's art elsewhere (Preacher, and his Dredd especially), it doesn't feel as grim and gritty as Delano's run (who had a number of astonishing artists like John Ridgway, Richard Piers Rayner, Mark Buckingham, Bryan Talbot, Steve Pugh and Sean Phillips), but I know I'm in the minority here, and I do like Dillon's art, I just don't love it.

Quote from: Vector14 on 04 December, 2023, 09:15:55 PMI've got some of the Brubaker and Phillips books from a humble bundle. And like most things I buy on there in the £1 tier, I havent read any of them.
Maybe time to remedy that and check if Fatale is in there too.

Oh definately. Though I only have a couple on my list all the stuff I've read by them is really good. and well worth someones time.

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 04 December, 2023, 11:51:58 PM

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 04 December, 2023, 04:43:55 PMOn a related note do the Ennis + Dillon Hellblazers hold up? I've not read them in a long, long time but loved them as they came out.

I think they largely do, I really love the character of Kit, there's some corking plotlines, and Ennis writes John beautifully.

Hmmm after I've done Preacher I may well check this out again as might be interesting to compare the two. Especially since their Punisher run doesn't hold any interest to me for some reason.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 122 -Dan Dare by Garth Ennis and Gary Erskine

Keywords: Reimagining; Englishness; Future War

Creators:
Writer - Garth Ennis
Art - Gary Erskine
Colours - Parasuraman A (??)

Publisher: Virgin Comics

No. issues: 7
Date of Publication: 2007- 2008

Last read: 2016

I'm not a particularly patriotic person. I appreciate how lucky I am to have been born in the UK, can see some of the good in my country but also see how our colonial past has left us with a sense of inflated self importance and exceptionalism therefore runs rift across our nation. Reading this however made me punch the air with glee at my Englishness!

It is of course fascinating that it took an Irish writer teamed up with a Scottish artist to make me feel just about as English as I probably ever have (well outside sport!).

(https://i.imgur.com/Xh2JIy4.jpg)
Copyright - Probably the Dan Dare Foundation, that's my guess

Or was it down to the fact they just got the quintessentially English Dan Dare so right? We all know Dan Dare don't we. Iconic 50s hero of British comics. The archetypal officer, all stuff upper lip and stoic bravery in the face of alien hordes, doing things 'right'. It's both his iconic nature and his rigid 50s origin that have made him so hard to successfully translate in the modern day... or indeed in the 70s when 2000ad tried. Throw away too much of what made him great then and you lose what made him iconic. Retain too much and he frankly looks ridiculous as we now know he's an illusion, an ideal that didn't really exist from a time we have long since grown away from romanticising, or should have.

Garth Ennis perfectly balances that conundrum by playing into the comics he does best. He focuses on Dan Dare as the British war hero. The gallant inspiration. He does however drop in just the right amount of modern introspection and self awareness, supported by the separation sci-fi grants you so that the story is kept on the right side of ridiculous. He leaves enough gung ho adventurous heroism so Dare can remain the iconic ideal. It's very deftly done.

(https://i.imgur.com/lQJ0rs6.jpg)
Copyright - Probably the Dan Dare Foundation, that's my guess

The story they tell is relatively straightforward. We start some years after Dare's classic adventures. He's largely forgotten as the world has moved on from that time and him. Dare has withdrawn from that world, it's changed from his romanticised image of the past and he very much feels like a man out of time and place. Then the alien forces amass (and there's no real secret made that they are led by The Mekon of course, with a new secret weapon) and politicians scheme. The few honourable amongst them know who they need to turn to and Dan is pulled out of retirement to once again draw arms and stand against invading forces.

From there this is structured like a 'typical' Ennis war story, ramped up through the lens of a boy's own adventure, which most of his war stories do well to avoid. Here though they can let loose a little more. We start by establishing characters, we are quickly made to care about the soldiers going out to battle. When the action starts it's almost a greatest hits of 'classic' war stories, we get tragic navel conflict - albeit spacecraft. Gallant last stands al la Rorke's Drift or rather the way 'Zulu' tells that tale. We get air combat - again with space craft, heroes face terrible fates to mean when Dare stirs The Mekon in the eye it's with cold revenge fueled hate. We get troops of commando's storming enemy bases. Commanders, in this case politicians sacrificing their own troops to support their own ends. All the tropes are there.

(https://i.imgur.com/onBArSd.jpg)
Copyright - Probably the Dan Dare Foundation, that's my guess

It should all be so cliche. Some of the dialogue should make you wince with its flag waving. Ennis knows how to play these naive classics perfectly though. His ear for dialogue is so precise and trained that he can turn those moments from cliche to colossal. He times them perfectly so they come at just the right time. When Dare is stirring down an evil you can't pretend doesn't need defeating, they turn from hand whinging to fist clenched punching the air moments. When you've just seen a character you've been made to care so much about being killed that stiff upper lip doesn't seem daft, it seems defiant and full of purpose.

Ennis knows how to use these moments to maximise their impact and lift the story rather than drown it in nonsense. It's a skill you see him practise time and again in his war stories. Here though liberated from reality by the fantasy trapping of classic sci-fi he's able to liberate them all the more and push them even further.

He is able to use this to make Dan Dare the man he needs to be. He's the fictional ideal of a true English officer and gentleman. He's brave, stoic, caring when it's right to be, 'manly'* when needed. He's just so damned proper. And he pulled me as a reader right along with him.

*Manly in the way it used to be used, basically translating here as violent!

(https://i.imgur.com/9vlhxvY.jpg)
Copyright - Probably the Dan Dare Foundation, that's my guess

So then we get to The Mekon. If Ennis is able to make Dan Dare the man he needs to, this is helped by being able to contrast him with a villain that doesn't need nuance and motivation. A villain who is just so wicked. Pete Milligan did a very good version of Dan Dare a few years after this for Titan where he played with the Mekon much more bravely, that series is well worth checking out as well. Here though that's not what the Mekon needed to be. Aided by a snivelling, cowardly Prime Minister he is the perfect foil. Snide where Dare is proper. Scheming where Dare is forthright. Weak were Dare is strong. The appalling PM allows Ennis to add snivelling where Dare is upright to the mix.

Again the contrast is used to allow this Dan Dare to get away with being closer to the classic. That's not to say it doesn't allow moments of modernity. There are flashes of a more cynical, 'realistic', more modern worldview, of romanticised commentary, but the steps taken above mean these can be minimised and have no need to dampen Dare's more classic heroism.

(https://i.imgur.com/6mzQrV2.jpg)
Copyright - Probably the Dan Dare Foundation, that's my guess

The art in this series is ... fine. I'm not Gary Erskine's biggest fan. I find his work solid and certainly does nothing to interfere with the story. His storytelling is entirely competent. Sorry I know this is damning with faint praise here, but that's how art goes.

I've been intrigued that I've heaped so much praise onto the art in the runs I've covered so far on this list. It shouldn't be a surprise that I like the art in a list of my favourite comics, of course not. But I've been surprised at the number of times I've thought the art was the star of a series. I consider myself a more story and writer driven reader of comics. This series is a good example of that. For me this is here much more about the story and the art does little more than not get it the way of my enjoyment of that story.

Gary Erskine does really good work on spaceships and hardware. The ships look solid, their interiors feel functional and real. I find his character acting a little muted and awkward, he doesn't always convey the emotions with the precise clarity of the best artists. This motion and action can also feel a little stilted. Mind he does give really good, evil Mekon. His Mekon is magnificently malevolent.

So yep there we have it, there is so much in this story that could very easily have tripped it up. It could have taken things too far from the original concept, as 2000ad Dan Dare did, however enjoyable it was. It could have played things to close and that would have left it feeling dated and tired. Instead Garth Ennis is able to tread a very fine line. Balance things perfectly, enabling the changes in the world since the original, yet leaning in perfectly to his strengths to leave Dan Dare feeling iconic. This is a cliche of what there is to be proud of being British and specifically English, it casts the perfect illusion and for these brief 7 issues allows you to feel so very proud of being born under that illusion of a magnificent past. It does that while delivering a fantastic, fast paced, emotionally driven war story. Tally-ho!

(https://i.imgur.com/KHxyxRg.jpg)
Copyright - Probably the Dan Dare Foundation, that's my guess


Where to find it

At seven issues kept in print this is an easy on to get hold of. There an omnibus (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Garth-Ennis-Dan-Dare-Omnibus/dp/1606900552/ref=sr_1_1?crid=17VDWJE6SUBTH&keywords=dan+dare+ennis&qid=1699105464&sprefix=dan+dare+ennis%2Caps%2C70&sr=8-1) of the series still easy to get hold of (calling it an omnibus is a little cheeky given its only 7 issues).

I also bet you can pick up the floppies for bobbins with little effort as well.

Learn more

Again no Obligatory Wikipedia page for this one, though there is of course a Dan Dare page if you fancy.

It hardly surprising to know that Colin Smith (https://toobusythinkingboutcomics.blogspot.com/2012/04/on-dan-dare-by-garth-ennis-gary-erskine.html) has an interesting take on things on his 'Too Busy thinking about My Comics' Blog. Read to the bottom as he links there to another write up too!

The Comics Journal (https://www.tcj.com/man-out-of-time/) has a nice retrospective on Dan Dare generally including 2/3s of the way down an decent take on this series.

The Comics Pusher (https://comicpusher.blogspot.com/2013/07/DanDare.html) does an very interesting piece essentially comparing this to Morrison's 'Dare' which is well worth a read too.

As ever there are plenty of reviews out there. Particularly as this one is collected in one volume if you search for Dan Dare Ennis Omnibus you'll find lots of views and opinions.

This was one off the better Dare strips.

It is unfortunate that the DDC does not care for their IP and it looks like we might never again get new stuff

Way hey, something I have and have read!

I struggled a little with this when I first bought it (which was when it was released). I'd read a lot of Dan Dare from both the 80s and the 50s Eagle. I'd tried to read the 2000 AD version from *ahem* *whispers* scans, but disliked how not-at-all-Dan-Dare-y it was.

But I was keen to read new Dare stuff, so I gave this new one a go. I was unfamiliar with any other work by either the artist or writer at that point, so I came to it completely cold.

Once it had got going into the second issue I warmed to it more. I've learned that when I embark on a new interpretation of something I've previously loved, it helps to think of it as 'just another story' unconnected from any previous material. It's helped me not hate new Star Trek and new Doctor Who - enjoy it in isolation and you get more out of it. Connect it up in your head after you start to enjoy it. And I found it was the case with this Dare story.

The art looks good, much better than the more cartoony later new Dare (outside of Spaceship Away, which has it's own quirks). And by the end of it I was enjoying it quite a lot - only slightly hampered by the fact that my copy of issue #7 is misprinted. (Some of the sheets that make up the pages are offset vertically by half their height, meaning that you get the bottom of the page at the top of the book, and the bottom of the page at the top, separated by a gap and some printers marks.)

Annoying, but I bought the collected volume later and that's fine.

I didn't find it particularly patriotic, but then I'm not patriotic either, and maybe I'm also inoculated against it by having read tons of 50s Dan Dare which is far more in that direction than this. :D

I did think they got the character of Dare right - or at least in keeping with the past Dare, albeit an aged, possible-future Dare with added weariness. It's been long enough now since I read it that I can't remember just how wearied, jaded, cynical, or whatever he might have been. Maybe time for a re-read. I need to make a queue.

I've read Peter Milligan's Dare mini-series and thought it was fine but missing a certain something, and have a major issue with Grant Morrison's series (it's just one thing, but it ruins the comic for me) but I'd not read Ennis so shall add that to my amazon wishlist.

Quote from: broodblik on 07 December, 2023, 08:35:02 AMThis was one off the better Dare strips.

It is unfortunate that the DDC does not care for their IP and it looks like we might never again get new stuff

Yeah, I was looking at the DDC corporation's website a couple of days it's filled with inaccuracies like the following:

QuoteThe Eagle was created by a British Vicar, Marcus Morris, who was seriously impressed by the stunning quality of artwork in US strips such as Marvel's Captain America and DC Comic's Spiderman and Batman. Morris wanted to create a new comic full of action and adventure tories in cartoon form which would also convey to children the standards and morals he advocated. He did just that with Dan Dare ilot of the Future, and action strips such as Doomlord, Computer Warrior, Ghost Squad and more.

Of course the worst thing about it is that it sounds like Morris was involved with Doomlord, Computer Warriot and Ghost Squad, but the typos irritate too - I get that they're made sometimes, but you would have thought someone would have fixed them given how glaring they are and that the page has been up for years now.

However I am very tempted to make my next comic "Adventure Tories", even though I have a worryingly feeling that terrible things might happen the characters all but constantly, so, er, maybe not. ;)

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 08 December, 2023, 06:48:31 AMI've read Peter Milligan's Dare mini-series and thought it was fine but missing a certain something, and have a major issue with Grant Morrison's series (it's just one thing, but it ruins the comic for me) but I'd not read Ennis so shall add that to my amazon wishlist.

I agree 100%. I have a very big dislike for the Grant Morrison series in some sense it feels like a big disrespect towards the character and whom he is. This is the same sentiment I have off most modern takes on the old characters and lore. Disrespecting the source material.

Quote from: Fortnight on 07 December, 2023, 09:50:00 AMI didn't find it particularly patriotic, but then I'm not patriotic either, and maybe I'm also inoculated against it by having read tons of 50s Dan Dare which is far more in that direction than this. :D

Oh that's interesting. Have to admit I'd read little or no original when I'd read this, still not read much. But that patriotic buzz, however naive, was so real for me. Even on a more aware re-read expecting it to be so. It taps into all those classic war movie tropes which is in large part what I think fired it for me.

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 08 December, 2023, 06:48:31 AMHowever I am very tempted to make my next comic "Adventure Tories", even though I have a worryingly feeling that terrible things might happen the characters all but constantly, so, er, maybe not. ;)

Ha! Now this is something I want to see. 'Adventure Tories - Rwanda Civil War' there's a story there (alas!).

Quote from: broodblik on 08 December, 2023, 07:01:52 AM

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 08 December, 2023, 06:48:31 AMI've read Peter Milligan's Dare mini-series and thought it was fine but missing a certain something, and have a major issue with Grant Morrison's series (it's just one thing, but it ruins the comic for me) but I'd not read Ennis so shall add that to my amazon wishlist.

I agree 100%. I have a very big dislike for the Grant Morrison series in some sense it feels like a big disrespect towards the character and whom he is. This is the same sentiment I have off most modern takes on the old characters and lore. Disrespecting the source material.

But that was so Edgelord Morrison of that time. They're so much better having got that out of their system!

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 08 December, 2023, 07:40:50 AMOh that's interesting. Have to admit I'd read little or no original when I'd read this, still not read much. But that patriotic buzz, however naive, was so real for me. Even on a more aware re-read expecting it to be so. It taps into all those classic war movie tropes which is in large part what I think fired it for me.

With the 50s stories the 'quintessential Englishness' is so baked into Dan Dare and other Spacefleet characters that it's almost a subtlty, whereas in the Ennis Dare it's pushed more overtly (presumably to ensure the character was stiff enough of upper lip to still be Dan Dare). So whilst the original Dan Dare stories aren't so hand-on-heart, tears-in-the-eyes gawd-luv-ol-Blighty-tastic, the overall effect of reading them is ultimately the same once you take a step back.

Obviously, part of reading fiction is the suspension of disbelief, which I find it easy to do, so it all seems a perfectly normal level of tally-ho-ness when you're reading it.

Quote from: Blue Cactus on 04 December, 2023, 09:35:03 AM...with you mentioning The Fade Out, I will say I that was possibly my favourite series of theirs alongside Kill or Be Killed. Interesting to see which of their other series makes your list.

THis^^^

I only recently got into this pairing, and am now getting the hardbacks as they come out! Will now thrack down Fatale, now I know its a limit series.

Quote from: broodblik on 08 December, 2023, 07:01:52 AM

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 08 December, 2023, 06:48:31 AMI've read Peter Milligan's Dare mini-series and thought it was fine but missing a certain something, and have a major issue with Grant Morrison's series (it's just one thing, but it ruins the comic for me) but I'd not read Ennis so shall add that to my amazon wishlist.

I agree 100%. I have a very big dislike for the Grant Morrison series in some sense it feels like a big disrespect towards the character and whom he is. This is the same sentiment I have off most modern takes on the old characters and lore. Disrespecting the source material.

I think it can be done well, and Morrison's Animal Man is a good example where they took a little known character and humanised him and gave him a very memorable storyline, and then decades later Jeff Lemire did an Animal Run which I love and think is almost on a par with Morrison's. But then I suppose Animal Man was a very minor character prior to when he finally got his own title, so it's perhaps not the same thing.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 08 December, 2023, 07:40:50 AMBut that was so Edgelord Morrison of that time. They're so much better having got that out of their system!

They are, you're right, and I didn't mind his other ridiculous idiocy at the time (Big Dave being the only other one I remember in detail to be honest), but I still wish he hadn't tackled Dare in the way he did. In a way it reminds me of Alan Moore's League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen The Tempest, but that was Moore angrily mocking or attacking popular culture, whereas with Morrison it just seems to be a way to wind people up.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 08 December, 2023, 07:40:50 AMHa! Now this is something I want to see. 'Adventure Tories - Rwanda Civil War' there's a story there (alas!).

As my comics our photocomics I'd need a very high budget, or get about 10 times better / quicker at photoshop, so that idea might have to go back to the drawing board for a while.

Gah, sorry about the pronoun errors, unfortunately I left it too late to edit.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 121 - Bat Lash by Nick Cardy and Sergio Argones

Keywords: Western; Charming; Comedic; 1960s

Creators:
Writers - Sergio Aragones and Denny O'Neil
Art - Nick Cardy and others... a bit
Colours - Unknown, but kinda not relevant to this write up... I'll explain...

Publisher: DC Comics

No. issues: 8
Date of Publication: 1968 -69

Last read: 2013

Couple of things to establish right off the bat (pun maybbbbeeee intended?). These comics are some of the oldest on this list and as such some of the characterisation and social attitudes within them have dated badly. I don't think Bat Lash is the worst for this by any means, but it does need to be acknowledged, but having said that I'll move on.

Second I read these in...

(https://i.imgur.com/al5zvDo.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics, not them what created it...

...and as such I've only read these as black and white comics (Showcase Presents were DCs answer to Marvel's Essential line, bumper, cheap, black and white presentations of classic comics.) which as we'll get into is an advantage in some cases, for me this is a prime example of that as we'll get into.

Bat Lash (and excuse me if I ever type Batlash, even though Bat Lash is short for Bartholomew Aloysius Lash, for some reason I seem to gravitate to calling him Batlash as one word, as if he's a member of the Bat Family, he's not...anywayyyy...) is an great example of a house character. Created from a vague idea from editor Joe Orlando, handed to Sheldon Mayer to develop, who then passed the ideas to Sergio Aragones to further refine and take on writing chores. He made his debut in Showcase Presents 76, before quickly moving to his own brief, 7 issue, series and these 8 issues form the comics I include on my list. We'll talk about other things later.

(https://i.imgur.com/YmJmxTM.png)
Copyright - DC Comics, not them what created it...

In my previous entry I mentioned how I was surprised how often the artists had been such a big part in the reasons I love the comics I've listed so far, given I consider myself more writer focused. This is another example of that and I wanted therefore to acknowledge that by talking from the off about why the art by Nick Cardy is so, so good here and what part it plays in my love of these comics.

Nick Cardy is for my money one of the great, underappreciated comic book artists of the 60s and 70s. His work is sublime and while folks like Neal Adams get so much praise, much deserved praise, heaped upon them just look at a selection of Cardy's Aquaman covers to get a view on what an astonishingly dramatic artist he is. I'll link to some more about him below, but here we can focus on why his work is so good on Bat Lash and how it reveals how important his art is for this time in comics.

(https://i.imgur.com/Jl8w1BC.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics, not them what created it...

Bat Lash was born in a time when Sergio Leone's Spaghetti Western's were leading the charge to redefine the western, cut away some of the romanticism and present a harder, less idealised version of the genre. Shifting the focus from the clean cut hero to the grisled anti-hero. Bat Lash seems to both embrace and push against that. He's a dandy, a rogue, womaniser and gambler, an absolute anti-hero while still the charming big hearted man who is compelled to do the right thing. He claims to be a pacifist while drawing his guns in the blink of an eye when he needs to. Few, if any artists could have balanced those elements as perfectly as Nick Cardy.

He can use a light clean line to capture the slap stick charm, the easy, cheeky charisma of Bat Lash. He draws the romantic world he wants to inhabit with a deft touch, everything feels fresh faced and so very good looking. The girls in the saloons make you swoon and you know why they swoon for Bat Lash's clean features under the flower he always carries in his stetson.

Then he can turn it on a dime. Turn with perfectly captured motion and action to use deeper, darker lines to show the violence, to fill out the saloons and dusty streets with hard grim characters full of tortured emotion and angst. When the clouds roll over and the sunshine disappears from Bat's life, Nick Cardy makes you feel the bitter harsh reality of the world our anti-hero inhabits.

(https://i.imgur.com/tkXrS3r.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics, not them what created it...

I mentioned Neal Adams early, quite deliberately. He's a superb artist and his work on Detective Comics, Batman and Green lantern + Green Arrow are rightly hailed as helping mainstream comics start to shift to a more contemporary edge. The thing is he was perfect for that darker, dynamic motion filled vision of these heroes, he captured that side of the shift in how comics were presented so brilliantly. Nicky Cardy does that as well. The difference is Nick Cardy is able to capture the fun, comedic moments with equal aplomb, to make your heart skip a beat with the beauty of the cheap romance. I've not seen Neal Adams do that side with anything like the same skill (watch someone post something to prove that wrong!). Nick Cardy had it all and that's seen no more than on this series.

He provides perfect covers that leap off the shelf and most have pulled the reader to the title. He fills those comics with amazingly dynamic action, dark moonlite introspection, cheeky romantic comedy. He really does have it all and these comics are the perfect showcase for that incredible talent. A talent that I think is slightly overlooked and deserves more eyes on it to appreciate it fully.

(https://i.imgur.com/yTwjzxo.png)
Copyright - DC Comics, not them what created it...

This is also why I'm perfectly happy to read these comics in the black and white reprint I do, albeit on cheap paper. Seen with the colour removed from the original comics the clarity of his use of line comes to the fore and I think you are better able to see some of how Nick Cardy  achieves what he does. Not exactly how, his brilliance makes it hard for me to quite grasp and fully express how he manages what he does, but it definitely does. Boy oy boy do I want there to be an Artist Edition of these, or at least for Nick Cardy more generally.

For all this talk of Nick Cardy I've almost lost sight of the fact that Sergio Aragones, creator of Groo, has a big part to play here, very ably assisted by another great Denny O'Neill. The character was originally set up to be a loner set out on revenge after the murder of his family. One can only assume that Aragones was a big part of the lighter more comedic elements used to perfectly contrast this. He wrote the original story and then as Bat Lash moved to his own title he apparently provided plot with breakdowns, which Nick Cardy then drew and Denny O'Neill took scripting duties.

With an editorially created character and mixed writing team it's a minor miracle these stories come across so coherently with its tone perfectly realised and consistency. They do though and they are simply put, immense fun. Some lend into the comedy elements more than others, some lean into the darker spaghetti western feel. They all balance those contrasting elements perfectly. Bat Lash has a real dark underbelly and that is superbly emphasised by the contrast with the womanising, dandy scoundrel who he presents himself as. For each money grabbing caper he might find himself in, there is a hard hitting tale where the violence has 'real' consequences.

(https://i.imgur.com/LHkHwZ4.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics, not them what created it...

Bat Lash has made a number of appearances after his series ended. The back up stories at the end of The Showcase Presents collection I have by no lesser lights as Len Wein and Dan Spiegle show just how well crafted the original tales are. These are good stories, they are fun and Spiegle is a fine artist himself. They don't however manage the balance of the light hearted gambler with the dark anti-hero with anything like the confidence that Aragones and O'Neil manage with Nick Cardy leading. They are a nice addendum to the volume, if for no other reason than to emphasise just how good the bulk of the comics, drawn by Cardy, are.

I will have a number of westerns pop up in my list. None of them are quite like this. These are comedy adventure comics from the late 60s and that needs to be appreciated when approaching these comics. In that context however they are (largely) forgotten masterpieces. They are a masterclass of art, and a text book for how a comic series doesn't have to have a singular tone and can balance humour with more serious elements, when in the right hands. Judge Dredd at its best manages that brilliantly, who'd have thought a cowboy story from almost 60 years ago would have pulled off the same trick, in a very different way, quite this wonderfully.

(https://i.imgur.com/SqJoP0W.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics, not them what created it...

Where to find it

The Showcase Presents collection (https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/5491797) I've referenced above seems to be out of print but can be picked up in the aftermarket at none crazy prices.

You don't seem to be able to get these digitally yet (apologise if folks find them) and the original floppies are a bit tricky to get at a decent price given their age. So yeah not as available as many on this list I'm afraid.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_Lash)

Nice Blog entry about Bat Lash from Siskoid (https://siskoid.blogspot.com/2020/07/whos-bat-lash.html) whoever they might be. Lots of nice art in this one.

Short but decent overview of the Gay League (https://gayleague.com/bat-lash-the-dandy-cowboy/)

Not a great deal more out there BUT while searching for more stuff I found this great examination of Nick Cardy's art Mint-Hunter Comics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9iFKtA93Yo). Focuses on his cover art and not his wonderful sequences but gives you a good sense of his immense talent.

Folks who know me know I can't resist a good western, and a good western written by Sergio Aragones is almost too tempting to believe, baffled how this has slipped under my radar.
That showcase is going on the hunting list.

Quote from: Proudhuff on 08 December, 2023, 11:45:47 AMI only recently got into this pairing, and am now getting the hardbacks as they come out! Will now thrack down Fatale, now I know its a limit series.

Wise to pick up Image HCs as they're released. Pausing for too long is the road to disappointment (as I imagine quite a few people found when Pulp abruptly vanished). Fatale is one of those that can be a PITA to find, although people may have luck on eBay. I think I bought my set for effectively cover price. (Right now, only book two is readily available in stores.)

Preacher: it really will be interesting, Colin, you coming to that series now, in this year and at your age, vs when it was released. As I've said elsewhere, it is right on the cusp of 'keep or sell' for me. Not sure it'll survive another re-read, whereupon I may well reallocate the shelf space for something more deserving. (I imagine, despite the fact I would never be able to rebuy them if I sold them, my BPRD HCs may well suffer the same fate. I hated where that ended up.)

Dare: Yeah. It's an odd one. Mind you, I think this is a character that I arrived at from weird directions (old 2000 AD annuals given to me by a cousin, and the C64 game!), and who I subsequently wanted to like a whole lot more than I did. I never cared much for the original, though, when I sat down and read it. And while Morrison's take was exciting at the time, I can't imagine it would hold up now. All the other runs have washed over me to the point I can't remember a single thing about them, which perhaps isn't the best sign.

Bat Lash looks really good - I'm actually pretty excited to have a go at that. Looks like the collected edition is out of print but not insanley expensive (unless Colin's post sparks a run on it!) so I'll see if that's something I can justify picking up in the new year.
I've seen it around before, but the title plus it being DC made me write it off thinking it was some kind of awful elseworlds cowboy Batman comic. Whoops!

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 11 December, 2023, 10:52:22 AMDare... the C64 game

Absolute classic!

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 11 December, 2023, 08:52:21 AMFolks who know me know I can't resist a good western, and a good western written by Sergio Aragones is almost too tempting to believe, baffled how this has slipped under my radar.
That showcase is going on the hunting list.

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 11 December, 2023, 02:45:17 PMBat Lash looks really good - I'm actually pretty excited to have a go at that. Looks like the collected edition is out of print but not insanley expensive (unless Colin's post sparks a run on it!) so I'll see if that's something I can justify picking up in the new year.

Now don't you two get into a bidding war and artifically push up prices... for a book I own... actually go for it!

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 11 December, 2023, 10:52:22 AMPreacher: it really will be interesting, Colin, you coming to that series now, in this year and at your age, vs when it was released. As I've said elsewhere, it is right on the cusp of 'keep or sell' for me. Not sure it'll survive another re-read, whereupon I may well reallocate the shelf space for something more deserving. (I imagine, despite the fact I would never be able to rebuy them if I sold them, my BPRD HCs may well suffer the same fate. I hated where that ended up.)

Damnit Preacher is as much as 4 years from getting to the top of the pile (spreadsheet) - I know, I know there are so many good comics to read! I kinda want to read it now after all this talk.

I'd not heard of Bat Lash before, and I never knew that Aragones* plotted comics that he didn't also draw, so that was fascinating to read, I have put it on my Amazon wishlist but that's so ridiculously large right now that it'll probably be 2026 before I get to it!



*Though outside of his work for Groo and Mad Magazine I know very little about the man, and really must rectify that.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 120 - The Li'l Depressed Boy

Keywords: Slice of Life, empathy, unfinished (a bit), forgotten

Creators:
Writer - Steven Struble
Art - Sina Grace
Colours - Steven Struble

Publisher: Image Comics

No. issues: 21
Date of Publication: 2011 - 2014

Last read: 2015

Some comics just get lost in the mix. They get forgotten, I mean there are a lot of comics out there. Some of those lost comics are well worth the effort of tracking down... if you think they will work for you. So give that let's remind folks of

(https://i.imgur.com/pZvFFcT.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

I got back into comics after my wilderness years around 2004 and fell into superhero stuff pretty hard. As my reading started to diversify after a few years I realised that the comics I was discovering really still centred around genre fiction and I began to feel an itch I needed to scratch. Where were the slice of life, autobiographical comics I used to love. Where was Peep Show, Yummy Fur (well when that did autobiographical stuff), Hate even. Then I stumbled across Li'l Depressed Boy and started to scratch that itch.

Now it's important to say that Li'l Depressed Boy wasn't like those mentioned above, or as good as this list will attest to, but it filled a gap that the absence those sorts of comics left me.

Initially created as a webcomic (I'm still to read those) Steven Struble created LDB as a semi-autobiographical account of his struggles with depression and life in general. The series follows Li'l Depressed Boy, or LDB to his friends, he's literally called that in the comics. He is also presented as a 'ragdoll' , a simplified representation of a person. Something I'll return to later.

(https://i.imgur.com/UrGcmRU.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

LDB moves through his life during the 21 issues. He falls in and out of love - or at least thinks he falls out of love, again another thing we'll come back to. Gets a bum job in a cinema that courses him all sorts of grief. Tries to find a creative outlet. Catches buses, walks in the park. Lives a life that many of us have lived and it serves as a useful meditative reflection of that life and for me, my life, at least when I was in the 20s / early 30s phase of my life.

One constant in LDB's life is music. He loves music. He goes to gigs, he constantly has his headphones and is listening to cool indie bands. He turns to music when he is feeling down, and he's listening to music when he's at his best. Music is the art form through which he draws so much from and how he processes his experience. Again this is something that I can relate to. In those aforementioned wilderness years, when I wasn't reading comics, music was a massive part of my life too. It still is, but during my 30s comics came back and dominated more. Either way I can easily relate to how you throw yourself into a creative medium as a way to try to understand who you are and to feel connection to others. So I do things like this to feel engaged with comics and the comics community, LDB is in the same phase with music.

(https://i.imgur.com/TklVE4N.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

This connection to music and the music scene has led to this series being labelled as 'hipster' by some folks. I'm not sure I see that. I mean firstly what exactly is it to be a hipster, just cos someone is into the indie music scene, being a 'hipster' is more than that isn't it? I'm too old and 'nerdy' to even really know and lots of lovely people have well maintained beards these days it seems to me. I don't think this comic is designed to appeal to a specific demographic, sub culture or group.

I mean look at me when I discovered it. I was past the stage of my life LDB is in. He's single or just starting in a relationship, in his 20s, lives alone, still dealing with the discovery of who he is. When I read these I was married, had young children and had well and truly settled down. I was well into my career and frankly far too busy to really dwell on who I was. I'm also lucky enough to have never suffered from depression, though many close to me have. I'm also not a cool dude from middle America. None of this matters, these are comics I feel empathy with. These are comics that tell a tale that reflects so many elements from my past and in different ways relate to me now.

LDB's relationships with his lovers, friends, and work colleagues still speak to me. I remember one scene that made me wince at myself - now I'm too lazy to track this down, but even my shoddy memory has held onto this. He relates to someone how he didn't want to become that friend to someone he was attracted to in some vain hope they were attracted to him but he 'wouldn't want to ruin the friendship' by not addressing his feelings head on. Christ I admired that, I've been that person so many times in my youth. He fact he addressed that, with a little scorn, hit home and settled in my mind. So much of this series does and that's why it comfortably makes this list. It's settled in my brain, it had an impact and I think of this series very fondly.

(https://i.imgur.com/izSPWku.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...
 
LDB isn't alone in his world and the story introduced any number of great, relatable characters, Spike his girlfriend, who is frankly very cool, Drew his best friend, Jazz a woman he fell for, but only saw LDB as a friend (see above!), Lance a pain in the ass work manager. All these people I know, or have known in one way or another over the years and that makes the series feel very real and grounded to me.

There's an artistic trick played here that helps all this as well and it revolves around the design of Little Depressed Boy. In a previous entry (Orbital #130) I flagged a video by Matttt (right number of 't's believe it or not!)  about how Manga (https://youtu.be/pF-nVvU_uHc?si=JwUHW2XN5O4ZGEvT) uses a technique of simplifying the way faces of characters are drawn in context of more detailed and fully realised background and environments. This allows the reader to more easily identify with the characters, as they don't have as defined specific features. They could just be you, so you engage with them and therefore their situations and story more. Do this in contrast with a more detailed realised world in the backgrounds and that impact is amplified.

This is done to great effect in this series. Little Depressed Boy is so simplified, there is nothing in their features to define them, so the reader can fully engage with them and there are no barriers to seeing yourself in them. This is further aided by the fact that here the other characters are more 'realistically' drawn, or at least more developed. So the reader feels a fuller connection, finding LDB more relatable than the folks that fill his life. It's really effective here.

Important to say that I don't know that Steven Struble does this deliberately. In an interview linked to below, he chooses not to say why LDB is drawn the way they are. It might be this, it might just as well be so that Struble is able to distance himself from the autobiographical elements. It could be that LDB sees himself as not as complete and whole as the other people in his life. There could be other reasons I'm not smart enough to read into. It may well be a combination of a number of reasons. Whatever.

It's important to remember however that the final product of any comic (or book, or film, whatever) is created by the reader. The work isn't completed until the reader comes to it, takes what is presented to them, adds the needs they bring to that piece of fiction, mixes in their reflections and reading. Sees the themes and ideas they want to give to the work and only then is the comic (see above) finally fully created. To that end, regardless of Steven Strable's intent, even if this effect isn't deliberate, I suspect it plays a large part into why I engage with this work the way I do.

(https://i.imgur.com/cxc6PJp.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

This leads us neatly to the rest of the art. It's good. Sina Grace handles the characters perfectly. Their interactions and emotional responses feel real and are projected simply and to great effect. The world feels as solid as it needs to. The action of the music that plans such a big part of the story is full of energy and life. The jagged, rugged line work carries the difficult world LDB lives in, difficult to him, to great effect.  It's a really good job, even if it doesn't blow me away.

The series had a 16 issue ongoing, then a 5 issue mini 'Supposed to be there' which ends on a bit of a cliffhanger. Just as LDB starts to feel settled with Spike and confident enough to tell her he loves her, Jazz appears back into his life. This shakes him as he begins to question whether he actually ever really got over her. Then Spike gets some news that might impact their relationship in another way... we just don't get to find out though. As the mini series ended we were promised more, but didn't get it. Life doesn't end neatly and so neither does this series, which kinda works, but is kinda annoying too. Would love there to be more.

The Little Depressed Boy. When reading it I remember one initial frustration was I whizzed through reading the issues. You pick them up and 5 minutes later you'd be done. The collected editions are a similarly quick read. This isn't as annoying as it is with some comics however. As though it might have drifted from most of the public's consciousness, its impact has lingered with me. If you enjoy slice of life comics and don't think what I've described to you will not relate or appeal, you could do worse than try this one out.

(https://i.imgur.com/V8RDbnp.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Where to find it

There are 5 trade paperbacks (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=li%27l+depressed+boy&i=stripbooks&rh=n%3A266239%2Cn%3A274081%2Cn%3A503400&dc&ds=v1%3Ai8cYRMhWRQU2X4atba%2BKnU6MFZ2unaefvoUX58b8Aco&crid=1MFL54K57MN9U&qid=1699278315&rnid=266239&sprefix=li%27l+depressed+boy%2Caps%2C58&ref=sr_nr_n_4) collecting the whole series and a Volume 0 collecting the webcomics. Alas some seem out of print.

The floppies didn't sell bundles and so this one is getting a bit hard to get hold of. If you have the patience I'm sure there won't be many tracking them down so you should be able to get um but alas this one isn't as readily available as many on this list physically at least. Add to that I can't immediately see digital versions. Sorry!

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page doesn't even seem to exist, how unknown does a comic need to be to achieve that! Even Image who published it only have a stub page without a cover gallery or anything!

Best I can is a Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/thelildepressedboy/) and and a Tumblr (https://lildepressedboy.tumblr.com/) from the creators. Both have not been updated for some time.

Bleeding Cool (https://bleedingcool.com/comics/recent-updates/lil-depressed-boy-interview/) has an interview with Steven Struble which provides some insight.

For the rest just the standard reviews from the standard places

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 119 - The Red Seas

Keywords: Pirates, 2000ad, stop-motion movie, adventure, black and white

Creators:
Writer - Ian Edginton
Art - The Mighty Yeowell
Colours - It's all in lovely black and white baby

Publisher: Rebellion

No. issues: 142 Prog episodes (doubling up for the numerous double length parts) which by my estimates is around 35 US size comics.
Date of Publication: 2002 - 2013

Last read: 2020

I love when two runs on my list sit next to each other but are so different. I do wonder if they'll be a better example of that than the quiet introspection of The Li'l Depressed Boy (last post) sitting right next to

(https://i.imgur.com/6Wp2Vaj.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion

I mean come on just look at the title of that volume - the title of the first story arc for Red Seas 'Under the banner of King Death' probably the greatest every 'chapter' name for any 2000ad story which perfectly sets up the tone and feel of this series!

We all know Red Seas here right, we've all read it. Well maybe not, you gotta hope that 2000ad is pulling in new readers on a regular basis and since this finished 10 years ago (I can't believe I've just typed that!) some may not have read this classic series. Red Seas is 'Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger' (It's the thrill of the fight, Rising up to the challenge of our rival...), Jason and the Argonauts, Clash of the Titans. The very best Ray Harryhausen film you've ever read.

Jack Dancer and his pirate crew travel the seven seas becoming embroiled in conflicts with numerous mythical beasts and monsters, ultimately angering the Devil himself. Leading them into a final conflict with Ol' Nick and his horde of the damned. Along the way they befall a giant shark, meet Aladdin, recruit Erebus the two headed guardian of Hell and Issac Newton, journey into the Earth to fight dinosaur riding lizard people and challenge the diminished Norse Gods to name but a few of their adventures. Yes it's as rip roaring and exciting as that makes it sound.

(https://i.imgur.com/Nh0DfxZ.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion

First and foremost then we need to salute Steve Yeowell, or the Mighty Yeowell as I've come to call him, who drew the entire series. He is able to draw all those fantastical creatures, those amazing worlds, the realms of wonder and mystery and never lose sight of the need of his characters to convey emotion and humanity. The action doesn't wipe out the importance of those characters, as the reader needs to engage with them, and their all to real reactions to the marvels they witness and so often fight.

(https://i.imgur.com/vNIxoZq.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion

His stark black and white work, his use of contrasts brings to the fore the celluloid aspects of this series. This is an old time action, adventure, fantasy movie and the fact it's in black and white really brings that to the fore. It's not just any ol' black and white it's the Mighty Yeowell's Black and White (capitals deliberate), he is just so expert in his use of the contrasts. He got flack from some quarters in the latter story arcs for seemingly not putting in enough lines, there's not enough detail for some folks. For me this is a prime example of him using the lack of colour to have real impact.

The idea that he doesn't add enough detail misses a key element here. He never skips on the important things, he always shows character and emotion, even if with just a few pen strokes. The use of white to open up space, to give the story the epic scale it needs on the comic page. He draws entire oceans with a few lines to suggest waves, the vast amount white space provides the sense of enormity. They allow the waters to spread beyond the limits of the page and in doing that throw the small vessels and creatures that inhabit that space into a larger than life world to operate in.

When he draws the monsters that are so central to the series he makes them large, they have power and strength. He somehow manages to give metal and stone beasts a sense of the moments that is that of a Ray Harryhausen's stop motion creations. Whether that's me that projects onto his images doesn't matter his designs, his superb storytelling awareness means his panel layout and creature design realise the world in a way I'm able to project those motions. Similarly when he draws organic beasts I get the same sense of old movie motion, rubbery limbs flail around and twist and bounce. It's astonishing stuff.

(https://i.imgur.com/yuOxXF2.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion

Mighty Yeowell's art across the Red Seas is consistent in its greatness, however the series ran over 11 years and as you might expect over that time there are changes in the details of his style. It always remains very distinctly The Mighty Yeowell's art, it never loses his core skills, his brilliant use of contrast, his ability to convey emotion and action, this fantastic design sense and storytelling. That is always there, but it's interesting to note the more subtle changes.

In the early stories he's using blocker, more solid blacks. It's closer in style to say Zenith Phases 2 and 3 as if he was leaning back into this earlier black and white work after a good few years having his work coloured most of the time. He was refinding that confidence in not leaving the spaces he'd learnt to open his work to colourists. During the middle stories he starts to add much more fine line detail. To my eye it looks almost as if he's being inked by Terry Austin (he's not) whose fine line work worked really well on say John Byrne's X-Men. Latterly he started to open things up and leave the white open spaces with the skills and confidence I mentioned above.

Across the series we are treated to a great example of an experienced and supremely talented artist still experimenting and developing his art style constantly. Restlessly trying new things, even though he has already mastered the form, grown into his fundamental stylistic choices and had a mature artistic voice. It's really an artistic masterclass.

(https://i.imgur.com/0rrc4mm.png)
Copyright - Rebellion

While I'd happily discuss The Mighty Yeowell's art all day, doing so would be a disservice to Ian Edginton and the fantastic story he crafts. Red Seas is on the surface a very straightforward tale. It's an adventure on the high seas, action, adventure, mystery with a smattering of romance and great barrels of good humour... and to be honest it's that below the surface as well! This isn't a deep comic. This won't change the way you think about yourself, your world or comics as a form. This is just what the individual story arc's magnificent titles suggest they will be:

Under the Banner of King Death
Twilight of the Idols
The Hollow Land
The Chimes at Midnight
Hell and High Water
Fire Across the Deep

And possibly most of all Gods and Monsters.

Ian Edginton seems to be having such great fun with it all and that crashes in waves through the pages to the reader. There are no holds barred on the imagination and with just plain fantastic and fantastical joyous yarn it weaves. Some folks claim it started to drift in the latter half, that it lost its way and needed to cut to the chase and get to its ending. I do not get that personally, I fully understand how the creators just didn't want to let this go and as I reader neither did I.

When it does get to that ending it wraps things up in perfect fashion. It's the climactic conflict between armies of good and evil. It resolves in a bombastic finale that the movies that it draws so much from could only dream of having been able to realise. It literally raises a glass to the reader to thank them for coming along on their breathless ride.

(https://i.imgur.com/4al7JEE.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion

For all this talk and Gods and Monsters it's possible to lose sight of the fact that the story is full of great characters. Jack Dancer, the captain of a brilliantly rich pirate crew is probably the least interesting of the lot. He's cheeky, charming, brave and suitably lost in the world of wonders he travels in. He acts as the perfect foil to emphasise quite how dazzling the world he is in is by being ... well frankly... a bit bland. Luckily his crew is anything but, Ginger Tom, Jim, Julius, Issac Newton and Jack's irascible brother Alexander all add something to the story, all have well crafted arcs of their own across the series. They all add to the humanity needed to ground the reader in a world that would otherwise wash them away. Best of all is Erebus the super intelligent, at times grumpy, but always endearing two headed canine guardian of the underworld. Without doubt the greatest bi-headed dog attached to a robotic body comics, or indeed any medium for imaginative literature has ever known.

(https://i.imgur.com/8NumKj3.png)
Copyright - Rebellion

So there we have it, Red Seas, a story that came out a year before Pirates of the Caribbean. I'm always a little amazed by that as it is hard to shake the idea that this did that most 2000ad of tricks of taking something from popular culture and placing a thrilling spin on it. Apparently not, what it does do is Pirates of the Caribbean even better than that movie franchise can ever dream of. A story I've talked about here so much I really can't have much left to say about... oh... well... yeah, sorry about that.... A story of scale and otherworldly wonder and delight. It popped back in a special brilliantly crossing over with Ant Wars, its high seas adventures leaving plenty of space for fun returns when the creators want to, but is entirely satisfying in itself.

(https://i.imgur.com/tuWRxL6.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion

Where to find it

Though this has never had a full trade collection from Tharg there are a couple of nice easy packages you can use to get the lot. Hachette Partworks (https://hachettepartworks.com/en-en/2000-ad-ultimate-collection/red-seas-volume-one/?search=red+seas#/dfclassic/query=red%20seas&query_name=match_and&session_id=f107259efb6a6d98e74c2ddcd8529382) has the entire series in 4 rather lovely hardcover volumes with some decent back matter. All seem to still be available (at the time of typing).

And if you fancy an even cheaper dollop of fun, and you do digital, there are two Rebellion Digital collections (https://shop.2000ad.com/catalogue/GRN556) of the whole thing. I link to vol.1 but from there you can link to the second volume from there as well before you check out.

Other than that you can do a lot worse than track down the Progs the story appears in and if you want to know which one's there's a couple of great links below.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Seas)

Though for all things 2000ad our own Funt Solo's 2000ad in Stages (https://2kstages.github.io/AtoZ/RedSeas/data.html) is a must see source...

... or to put it another way of course for all things 2000ad (well most we'll get to that down the road) Barney (https://www.2000ad.org/?zone=thrill&page=profiles&Comic=2000AD&choice=REDSEAS) is your first go to port of call.

There is also, again will be for most 2000ad stories, a nice brief video summary as part of 2000ad's ABCs (https://2000ad.com/news/the-2000-ad-abc-72-the-red-seas/)... although this one always bugged me as just as Molch-R is introducing the importance of The Mighty Yeowell the background image he talks to is a Cliff Robinson cover! Nothing against Cliff Robinson at he's he's aces, but come on!

Judge Tutor-Semple (https://judgetutorsemple.wordpress.com/2015/03/11/2000ad-digital-1st-red-seas-books-1-2-preview-pages/) does a brief review of the two digital collections...

... and after that... well not much. I mean you can do a search on this board and there will be LOTS of insightful and since I've talked about this series a lot less insightful comments.

This is one of my favorite 2000AD series. High adventure, great characters a true beginning, middle and end. And please do not forget the awesome B/W art by Steve Yeowell, he should now be one of the legends of the prog.

Though it was eventually the unfolding nightmare that was Day of Chaos that enthralled me into the tooth forevermore in my early days, it was the heady line up of Red Seas, Dante, and Flesh: Texas that first got me to pick up those initial precious progs.

I love love love love Red Seas and miss it terribly each year, and as nice i'm sure as the Hachette tomes are (and indeed the digital omnibus' (omnibusi? omnibuseses? fuck it...) surely are too) I long for an artists hard cover edition ala Zenith or the Deviant Editions to really give the mighty Ye-Owl droids art the respect it deserves.

I still have that massive stack of progs representing my first two years as a reader from 2011 to 2013, and was on a knifes edge about chucking them but might give them one final peruse for the sake of Red Seas if nothing else.

Here's one that I've read!
Lovely writeup Colin and I can echo the sentiments that Red Seas is great. I had the benefit of reading it for the first time in its entirety in the Hachette collection - I missed it in the Prog and only the first arc was available collected prior to that - and it was a terrific experience. I do think it lags a little bit coming into the final stretch, and some characters are poorly served (Erebus is the best character by far) but it picks it all up again for the ending and it's a glorious mashup of golden age piracy, Ray Harryhausen and myth and legend.

Also, picked up some Bat Lash and it looks good so far!

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 18 December, 2023, 10:44:35 AMHere's one that I've read!
...
Also, picked up some Bat Lash and it looks good so far!

Well I am playing to the home crowd here! And Gulp - hope you enjoy it. I get a little nervous when folks pick things up based on what I say as different tastes and all that. Glad you are enjoying it so far.

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 18 December, 2023, 08:54:38 AMI long for an artists hard cover edition ala Zenith or the Deviant Editions to really give the mighty Ye-Owl droids art the respect it deserves.

Amen to that. I mean it'll never happen but would be a thing of wonder.

Quote from: broodblik on 18 December, 2023, 07:52:59 AMThis is one of my favorite 2000AD series.

Really reasuring that folks here are so far 3 for 3 in loving this one. By the end of its run it was getting such a hard time but I genuninely believe if people revisit it they will see it as the 2000ad classic I do.

Red Seas was always a strip I wanted to like more than I did. I'd hoped it would read better collected, but we had two cracks at that – one skinny HC and then the paperback – and it never went further until the digital editions arrived. I never got around to reading those and so was delighted when the series ended up in the UC. And, sure enough, it was great, from start to end. One of those strips that heavily benefitted from being compiled.

I hope the same's true for The Order when the other half rocks up in the UC.

I haven't read this since it was in the progs, but remember enjoying it.  I'm not normally a fan of pirate themed stories but Steve Yeowell's amazing art got me interested and invested in the story.  For me his art on Red Seas tops his art on Zenith. (Although it's been many years since I've read either so maybe it's time for a re-read of both).  Another vote for an artists hardcover edition!

Quote from: 2000BC on 18 December, 2023, 06:11:40 PMI haven't read this since it was in the progs, but remember enjoying it.  I'm not normally a fan of pirate themed stories but Steve Yeowell's amazing art got me interested and invested in the story.  For me his art on Red Seas tops his art on Zenith. (Although it's been many years since I've read either so maybe it's time for a re-read of both).  Another vote for an artists hardcover edition!

Topping his art on Zenith is a BIG claim and really interesting. I might Books 2 and 3 are the zen... nah I can't do that... are the peak of his art but chunks of Red Seas certainly challenge it. Its incredible that even on Zenith there are 3 distinct phases (okay, okay I'll allow myself that one!) to his art. He's so distinct and yet so restless in the way he keeps reinvigouring his output.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 18 December, 2023, 01:29:29 PM... I never got around to reading those and so was delighted when the series ended up in the UC. And, sure enough, it was great, from start to end. One of those strips that heavily benefitted from being compiled.

So happy Red Seas is getting such a positive reception. It getting the re-evalution it deserves it seems... well at least in our small corner of fandom.

I only caught Red Seas in the Hachette collection and thought it one of the best of the more modern (to me) thrills. A very pleasant surprise as at first glance it didn't look that appealing to me (not sci-fi). But it is a very exciting romp with enjoyable characters and as Colin notes, just like those Sinbad/Titans stop motion adventures that I loved watching as a boy. Surprised they waited for the first extension before printing it. It's certainly more likely to be reread by me than many of the other books in the series. I raced through it and didn't detect any sagging in the story, or notice the changes in art style, oops! I suppose Yeowell may have moved to fewer strokes of the pen for expedience, who knows!

I get the feeling the first UC set was intentionally quite conservative, to include full runs to that point of the heavy hitters. That snares you subscribers who'll fuel the full series. Sláine, Nemesis/ABC Warriors, Strontium Dog, Rogue Trooper and Nikolai Dante between them adds up to well over half the original collection. Four of the remaining volumes on a fairly obscure thrill would have been quite the commitment.

What perhaps surprises me more is how little John Smith there was in the initial run. I realise he's also divisive, but Firekind/Leatherjack in particular would have been something I'd have dropped in that first 80, given that both strips were finite. Really glad we got them eventually, though (and then all of Indigo Prime, Tyranny Rex, Cradlegrave, etc).

Yes, fair enough.

We got a few John Smiths in the JD collection. Perhaps the non-JD stuff was considered a bit more obscure. I agree with you though, those series some of the best of Tooth.

Chart run down 133 - 120

For some reason I had the 90s TOTP music running in my head as I typed that not the 80s or even 70s chart rundown music... I blame BBC 4's repeats of TOTP for that!

Anyway I'm going to pop an occasional post of the list to date on here for easy reference ... cos I know folks will be returning to this as an essential comics reference for years to come... ahem... they will... honest...

ANYWAY.

133 - Copperhead (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106583#msg1106583)

132 - Nexus (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1106694)

131 - Shade the Changing Man (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1106859)

130 - Orbital (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1106965)

129 - Nowhere Men (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1107121)

128 - Gotham Central (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1107266)

127 - Giant Days (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1107414)

126 - Avengers by Roger Stern and John Buscema (and Tom Palmer) (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1107512)

125 - Daredevil by Brian Michael Bendis and Alex Maleev (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1107641)

124 - Lazarus (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1107711)

123 - Fatale (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1107909)

122 - Dan Dare by Garth Ennis (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1108057)

121 - Bat Lash by Nick Cardy and Sergio Argones (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1108249)

120 - The Li'l Depressed Boy (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1108438)

NOT ON THE LIST

Saga (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1107754)

Even though I've not even heard of 86.66^r% of these titles, this thread has been an excellent read! I've got at least Orbital on my list of things to find in the future (once I get through the acres of comics I already have and the gamebooks and the regular books I'm always reading :)

Quote from: Fortnight on 20 December, 2023, 09:54:27 AMEven though I've not even heard of 86.66^r% of these titles, this thread has been an excellent read! I've got at least Orbital on my list of things to find in the future (once I get through the acres of comics I already have and the gamebooks and the regular books I'm always reading :)

Cool Beans - thanks Fortnight. Loving chatting away on your thread too. I promise if you keep read those comics you have a load more will appear... just some might be a while yet!

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 118 - Johnny Red

Keywords: World War II, Battle, Formative, Boys own adventure

Creators:
Writer - Tom Tully (and others apparently but...)
Art - Joe Colquhoun, John Cooper (and Carlos Pino apparently, but...)
Colours - All in that lovely black and white so no colour here.

Publisher: IPC, now owned by Rebellions but I'm really talking about the Titan reprints

No. issues: Not sure to be honest, there are however 4 lovely hardcover collections from Titan as mentioned above which cover the first couple of years.

Date of Publication: Originally 1977 - 1987

Last read: 2016

There are certain comics that form cornerstones of your memories of reading comics as a young kid. However well or otherwise they hold up to the modern eye with an objective view they remain endlessly enjoyable to you ... well in most cases The Sarge didn't make this list as in re-read I didn't enjoy it half as much as I remember. A number of these that do hold up will appear on this list as we go on and the first to appear is

(https://i.imgur.com/hjGbVbz.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion these days

So we all know Johnny Red right, particularly since his adventures also appear to be a cornerstone of Garth Ennis' childhood reading and as such he appears more than any other Battle (or Battle Action) character in the Treasury's ongoing and increasingly fantastic revival of British comic classics. The story centres around Johnny Redburn, a cook onboard an arctic convoy vessel. When his convoy is attacked he takes to the 'catapult' Hurricane fighter on the ship he serves on, resisting attempts to stop him.

Flung into aerial combat, he could fly the plane as he'd trained with the RAF before being kicked out, he saves the day but must then flee as he knows he'll be court marshalled for his actions. He flees to Russia, crash lands and before you know it he's flying and saving the day countless more times with the Falcon Squadron, within the Russian Air Force. It's real boy's own stuff.

(https://i.imgur.com/yYp1LSo.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion these days

I read Johnny Red in my brother's copies of Battle (hi Robin), it started when I was 3 years old, I'm not sure if we got it then, I think it might be later in the run as I'll return to. If I'm honest I can't remember too much about those early experiences or those comics. Except to say that there are images from the stories burnt into my mind. There is also a distinct impression that these comics mattered to me an immense amount. Most of this review will be based on having read these stories in the four Titan hardcovers releases between 2010 and 2016 and I'll not really go much beyond those, except in the vague terms of the impact of those early reading (or I imagine at first just looking at the pictures!) experiences left on me.

It can be all too easy when doing a list like this to just throw things on because they feel so formative, but from those more recent readings I'm going to try to work out quite why they had such an impact and why therefore these stories make the list. What made them so good then, that they still impact on me now? Stories that if I'm honest if I read them for the first time today I'd find very of their time and while I'd enjoy the craft wouldn't, possibly, get too much from them, certainly not enough to get onto this list.

Nostalgia of course plays a big part of that. I remember loving this strip and so they can throw a warm blanket around me when I revisit them. That's too simplistic though. I think stories of this type that make this list do more. They've shaped the way I approach imaginative fiction in any medium to the extent that I still see them as great comics now, however much I see their problems. They have built the foundations of what I look for in story and I still see those fundamental elements so clearly today. So what are those elements?

(https://i.imgur.com/L2TIF8m.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion these days

Well since I suspect when I first saw Johnny Red I was just looking at the pictures let's talk about the art. Johnny Red is synonymous with two artists Joe Colquhoun and John Cooper. The Titan volumes are mainly drawn by Colquhorn and that disappointed me so much and I was so relieved when we eventually got to the fourth volume which showcases John Cooper's art... okay, okay that statement clearly requires a LOT of qualification. Joe Colquhoun's art is astonishingly good on the series. He's simply magnificent. For all the energy, dynamism and meticulously realised hardware he most importantly nails the human horror of war with a power that few others, if any, have ever bettered.

John Cooper picks up those traits and runs with them. His work, certainly in his early time on the strip when he's taken over, is very influenced by Colquhoun and feels tighter than his work on say 'One-eyed Jack'. To be very straightforward he's not as good as Colquhoun objectively, but his work just feels right to me on this series. He's a perfect fit because I assume of those early impacts his art had on my forming brain. I do wonder if I read many of the Colquhoun stories as a kid, certainly it's John Cooper's art I see when I reflect back.

It's more than just that though the art of both feels so real. The war they portray feels so scruffy and dirty. Everything feels covered in oil, mud. The filth of war permeates far deeper than outward appearances though. It's etched on characters' faces, subtly carried in their broken body language. It fills every corner of the world and the people forced to inhabit that brutal world. Growing up in the 70s that was how the world looked to me. It was dirty and broken so this felt right. We were also starting to be exposed to a more honest view of the brutalities of war but rarely was it presented so clearly then in comics like Battle.

(https://i.imgur.com/ANoQjZx.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion these days (not my original art alas!)

Secondly the 'boy's' own high paced adventure action starts to be tempered by ongoing long plots and subplots that build and develop genuine tension. The stories themselves stand up today for their craft regardless of how naive they may seem at times.

The high paced action really works for this strip; it doesn't feel rushed and compacted to the modern eye... well okay it does a bit, but it still works. Johnny and the Falcon Squadron's life is lived in quick bursts of fast moving action and the 3 to 4 page weekly instalments force that to the fore. The fighters go on these missions at high speed, cutting through the air and when they enter combat it is quick, brutal and finishes with sudden deadly accuracy. So unlike a lot of strips of the time the compressed storytelling really works to enhance the tales, not compromise them.

Add to that Johnny Red builds longer running stories that keep you hanging. They go on these high octane missions and flights but know they will return to have to deal with the evil squadron leader, or evade the secret police when they are back at base. The characters seem to develop and grow over time and actions have real consequence. Johnny Red is one of the first, if not the first UK strips that handles that balance masterfully. I'm not Tom Tully's biggest fan. Much of his 2000ad work doesn't quite get that balancing act right for me and in 2000ad his work does feel old to my modern eye. Here though he nails it. The stories, both plots and subplots working together to drive you along. To make things feel driven and breathless, but also grounded and 'real'.

(https://i.imgur.com/58UpNtP.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion these days (not my original art alas!)

I'm going on way too much about this now, so the final thing to reflect on is the characters. I love these characters. Johnny 'Red' Redburn himself is just so damned cool, then and now regardless of nostalgia. He's a tough, rugged anti-hero, then so at odds with the norms I came to expect, now so in keeping with characters I love. He's rough around the edges, coarse even, but under that brash exterior is a heart of gold (cliche maybe but it's hard not to love him). He has a strength and determination to not only fight hard, but to fight for the right things however difficult that may be. He pushes back against authority, when authority is wrong, with a braveness I've admired since I was a kid, and I do now, though I lack to the extent that Johnny has it. He's to be admired, even if I can't quite live up to him. The type of hero I'd not really seen as a child, and the type of hero I love in fiction to this day. Heck he's Han Solo flying a propeller plane... except harder... and cooler.

Heck he's from Liverpool too and that's always been cool and I didn't see that as a kid*, heroes from working class cities like my own Liverpool (well I'm Wirral but...) so I thought that made him even cooler. He was even a Liverpool fan to boot!**

So yeah there's Johnny himself but there's also a cast of fantastic supporting characters as well. From the Falcon Squadron, Yakob, a bear of a man being the standout, but others come and go. Nina Petrova and the Angels of Death - I mean a girl in my comic yuck... but okay she was kinda a cool girl... but NOOooo I didn't want to kiss her or anything.... The villains might have been a bit moustache twirling but they did it so well and the Russian military leaders seemed as much of a threat to Johnny as any German pilot, which spoke to a boy hearing tales of his dad's bosses. They all felt so real, like folks on my street at home. They all feel like characters, however simplified, I can translate as real now. It's a fantastic set up.

Add to that real situations from World War II which I was starting to understand and learn about, largely from my older brother and it's a period that I have a grim fascination with to this day. Everything about the series felt built for me, or in part build me, or the way I approach fiction at least, and those foundations still work and translate into a strip that works for the reader that has grown from those foundations. We could discuss cause and effect here, but there's little need. Whatever early paths these laid in my route to being a massive comics nerd today, whatever building blocks they laid to how I would engage with imaginative fiction in all media, however much that anti-authoritation streak reflected the life I was being brought up in, well that doesn't matter. What matters is the craft on display here is superb and nostalgia is weak in and of itself, nostalgia with great storytelling and art, when that's a powerful and potent mixture that helps us understand who and what we are and what we love today.

*I did always wonder how come you never saw the train station on Lime Street where the Leopard lived!

**Well he wasn't explicitly but come in it's all there, surely...

(https://i.imgur.com/xq1WJkY.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion these days

Where to find it

As said this is all really based in the four Hardcover volumes (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=johnny+red+titan&rh=n%3A266239%2Cp_n_binding_browse-bin%3A492563011&dc&ds=v1%3AWI2Lg4uAomwafDFg7v7Ck0SsVpBAH72MnDy6T4QlYPs&crid=2HSNGC8KY0BFT&qid=1699979702&rnid=492562011&sprefix=johnny+red+titan%2Caps%2C94&ref=sr_nr_p_n_binding_browse-bin_1) from Titan published between 2012 and 2016. I'm not aware of these being available digitally yet alas.

I reckon you can get that second volume in the aftermarket easily enough. Or just wait for Rebellion to think enough time has passed and they can start reprinting his stories.

I will go off track here and note that thanks largely to Garth Ennis' love of the character he's making quite a comeback. There's a collection of Titan's 8 issue mini-series (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Johnny-Red-Collection-Garth-Ennis/dp/1782761853/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3CHVHRX05BSV9&keywords=johnny+red+ennis&qid=1699979978&s=books&sprefix=johnny+red+ennis%2Cstripbooks%2C109&sr=1-1) written by Ennis and drawn by Keith Burns in 2016.

Johnny Red also appears in a host of Rebellion's Battle Action publications, with more on the way. I'll link to the Battle Action 2022 special (https://shop.2000ad.com/catalogue/RCA-B0115D) but there are others and these are available digitally and the more we buy um the more Johnny Red we'll get!

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Red)

The smarter Colin (https://toobusythinkingboutcomics.blogspot.com/2011/09/on-johnny-red-by-tom-tully-joe.html) has a really good write up of the first volume on his excellent 'To busy thinking about my comics.' blog.

A short interview (http://fanboy.frothersunite.com/johnnyred_cooper.html) short interview with John Cooper on the sadly abandoned (I think) Johnny Red Fan Page.

Down the Tubes (https://downthetubes.net/tag/johnny-red/) has lots of different things if you follow this tagged link and scroll down. Including reviews of the volumes I've discussed here.

My favorite Battle character, wish Rebellion can do a similar collection to the Charley's War collection.

Thanks for another great write-up Colin - your love for this one really shines through. It's not too long a write-up - make 'em longer! It wouldn't have the nostalgia factor for me so I'll not be massively seeking it out but that art looks bloody good so if I happen upon it I'll certainly give it a look. When I was a kid it was the beano, dandy, whizzer and chips, no war comics, alas. Clearly I missed out!

Quote from: broodblik on 21 December, 2023, 07:48:13 AMMy favorite Battle character, wish Rebellion can do a similar collection to the Charley's War collection.

I reckon we'll get there when the schedule allows. Then we'll have the dilemma I had with Charley's War as to whether to replace the hardcovers with the new editions.

Quote from: Le Fink on 21 December, 2023, 08:43:53 AMThanks for another great write-up Colin - your love for this one really shines through. It's not too long a write-up - make 'em longer! It wouldn't have the nostalgia factor for me so I'll not be massively seeking it out but that art looks bloody good so if I happen upon it I'll certainly give it a look. When I was a kid it was the beano, dandy, whizzer and chips, no war comics, alas. Clearly I missed out!

I mean any one could do worse things with two quid (https://forbiddenplanet.com/41076-johnny-red-volume-1-falcons-first-flight-titan-edition/) burning a hole in their pocket!

A truly marvellous thread Colin.

I don't know how you can write them so quickly that i don't even have time to comment in between.

I didn't realise Nina Petrova was in the original Johnny Red stories. I assumed it was Garth doing a sort of stealth crossover with his Night Witches stories.

Quote from: I, Cosh on 21 December, 2023, 10:53:43 AM...I don't know how you can write them so quickly that i don't even have time to comment in between....

Well I tend to find not worrying about good spelling and grammar, sentence structure and whether what I write makes a jot of sense to anyone else is a real time saver!

BRILL to see you here Pete. Don't see enough of you these days. Keep your eyes peeled you get name checked soon in a post coming up in the none to distant future!

Johnny Red was one of the big stories from Battle that I only knew about once Battle got absorbed into Eagle, and since that happened after I stopped getting Eagle as a kid, I only knew about it as an adult when I decided to buy up all the issues I'd missed both during and after I'd stopped getting it.

Unlike Charley's War, which I did read in Eagle once I'd finished collecting it, I only sort of skimmed through Johnny Red. I bought the Rebellion volumes and read those, but I didn't have the same enthusiasm for JR. Colin's enthusiasm as spurred me to add it to my list. Maybe I'll get the Titan volumes, or (since I've got plenty to read right now) I'll wait and see if Johnny is given the same treatment as Charlie by the time I'm stuck for something to read. In 2044.

Well slight delay due to X-Mas but I'm nothing if not relentless so onwards with go with one I suspect would be quiet regardless of when I posted it!

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 117 - Hourman - Tom Peyer amd Rags Morales

Keywords: Grant Morrison, hidden gem, mainstream, superheroes

Creators:
Writer - Tom Peyer
Art - Rags Morales (mainly a few fill ins here and there)
Colours - John Kalisz

Publisher: DC Comics

No. issues: 25
Date of Publication: 1999 - 2001

Last read: 2013

As the cliche goes, everyone has their 15 minutes of fame, so there's an opening for the fact that Hourman gets well... you can do that yourself... except it's barely true. This comic is the very definition of a hidden gem but one that's worth hunting for if you like leftfield superhero comics.

(https://i.imgur.com/FUyPWlj.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

In the late 90s Grant Morrison was a big name at DC, arguably the biggest and he created a new version of the classic hero Hourman during his JLA run. He wrote a short synopthesis for a possible ongoing series that was given to Tom Peyer who took that and exploded it into a magnificent, self contained 25 issue run.

The story focuses on Matthew Tyler the aforementioned new Hourman, an android from the 853rd Century cast back to the 20th (and then 21st, it was that time) century and his relationship with the world around him, legacy and time itself. He meets Snapper Carr - as Rick Jones is to the Avengers so Snapper Carr is to Justice League America... only less well remembered I think - at the Happy Harbor Coffeehouse. The two bond and together explore who and what they are. The events that have shaped them and the impacts those events have had on them emotionally, and in Snapper's case physically often. Oh but it's funny as well, very funny and it balances its different tones incredibly well, and naturally. Just like life at times it can be flippant and amusing, at times heartbreaking and sad. Just like life it always feels a bit of a roller coaster.

(https://i.imgur.com/GAc6CMn.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

When I reflect on this comic I really think about it being set so often in that small town coffee shop. I honestly don't think that happens all that often, the characters are cast through time and space, exploring many astonishing things and ideas, but it's indicative of the tone and feel of the comic. It feels grounded with real characters trying to deal with life and its consequences, just in hyper-realised superhero comic book ways. At one point (and it's been a while so excuse any errors in the specifics here) the Happy Harbour is literally attacked by demons haunting Snapper Carr.

In that sentence alone you get a good sense of how the series plays out. It could have been just an odd couple goof ball comic. Hourman is superhumanly intelligent, yet naive and childlike, lacking any experience to help him cope in the real world. Snapper has seen it all, lived a life and is now pretty broken, but worldly. Playing off those characters against the silver age fun and imagination that they encounter would have been fine and fun... but it's not that... well it is but it's much more.

(https://i.imgur.com/XH5qXRn.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

The idea of an android, or other form of artificial human or alien trying to learn how to cope in the 'real' world, teaming-up up for a world weary friend who guides them while smiling at their difficulty in ordering coffee is an old well worn path. Rarely though has the trope been handled with such aplomb and maybe even depth.

The story is as much about Snapper Carr's growth and 'journey' (yuck) as he copes with his guilt for past actions. He famously betrayed the Justice League back in the day when folks wanted to write him out of the series, he has a failed marriage - which we'll come back to. Snapper is damaged and even at times depressed and his struggles and the growth Hourman helps him with is actually more interesting. The two are an odd couple but it slides around the cliche and finds new territory to explore and ways to explore it. Tom Peyer crafts a fantastic tale of two people trying to adjust to their lives and find redemption.

(https://i.imgur.com/fEqfGQP.png)
Copyright - DC Comics

That might have been enough in itself to carry the series, but there is a cast of supporting characters that elevate things further. Bethany Snapper's ex-wife develops a romantic relationship with Hourman, and while she may be drawn as an example of 90s cheesecake, she is fantastic and adds so much to the series and has her own well developed 'story-arc' across the 25 issues. Legacy is explored with Rick Tyler, the original Hourman and his family as he nears the end of his life. Tomorrow Woman, another android, created to battle the Justice League, has a wonderful and powerful story. Even lesser characters who fill the pages feel complete and well developed and all add to the tapestry the series weaves.

Possibly most impressively is the way the villains, and don't lose sight of the fact this is a superhero comic with lots of that kinda things, super-villains that is, are brilliantly handled. Amazo, another android created to battle the Justice League (this time in the silver-age) is a recurring villain, but here he too is trying to discover himself and understand who and what they are beyond a construct designed to destroy. There is work with other classic villains as well. Professor Ivo, evil genius type who originally created Amazo and T.O. Morrow, the evil genius type who originally created Tomorrow Woman, all have the chance to shine and are used in a way that transcends the normal treatment of super-villains in the mainstream. There's even a demon who comes through in the attack on Happy Harbour and stays to become an endearing character (I really hope I'm not misremembering that... I can find no reference to this online, but sources are scant, you'll just have to read the comics to catch me out!).

All in all the cliche that this is a character driven story feels oh so true and the advantage here is there are just so many great characters driving the story.

(https://i.imgur.com/4tilxKe.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

Then there's the art. Rag Morales does the majority of the art in the series and his art is fantastic, perfect for the tone of the comic, mainly inked by David Meikis, though others step in on occasion. His style here is slightly 'cartoony' figures and facial expressions just slightly contorted, not in a way that diminished a sense of well realised art, rather to add emphasis and expression. Everything is just a touch hyper-realised so as to add punch and impact. Both in action and emotion. This is a mainstream comic, the art has a mainstream edge to it, but just slightly off centre, slightly different, slightly leftfield. In perfect keeping with the series itself. This is DC comics as you know them, but not quite as you expect.

There are a few fill-ins and these get more frequent as the series goes on. As Rags Morales became a superstar, in large part I imagine due to his wonderful work on this series, I guess he was given other things to do? That's a shame as none of the artists who come onboard for an issue or two here and there aren't able to deliver quite the same feel nor capture that unique place this comic and Rags Morales' art holds so well. None of the fill-ins are horrible, none of them are great either though. The monthly cycle means the series isn't the artist triumph it would have been if this had come from a different publisher, one who was able to wait for the artist to complete every issue.

(https://i.imgur.com/Xl1bAZV.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

The fact this isn't a superhero series from Image, Dark Horse or the like are this series biggest blessing and curse. The fact that something so unusual, yet in so many ways is firmly rooted in DC lore and history means it stands out as something different. The fact that it's wrapped in other ongoing mainstream series emphasises the unique things the story provides. It also means it's a little held back maybe, the art isn't quite what it might have been. Its came out as the original image guns and pouches period was coming to an end and just before mainstream comics dived into a gritty, harder period. It slips quietly between these two and so I suspect it gets largely forgotten.

Though it is a mainstream DC comic, told in shorter two, three issue chunks doesn't stop it being a really satisfying cohesive single story. The fact that Hourman is a legacy DC character and apparently goes on to make appearances here and there in the years that follow takes nothing away from this.

Even if you have no interest in mainstream DC comics. No knowledge or interest in the rich history and surrounding universe which frame the series, it doesn't matter. You can pick up (well see below) this series on its own and enjoy a really wonderful, whimsical and hard edged, humorous and serious and entirely satisfying story built not on that history or extended universe but on the characters you met and grew to love in Happy Habour.

Where to find it

These comics have never been collected to my knowledge. They are available digitally (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=hourman&page=2&crid=6DL73OD2YXS7&qid=1700034991&sprefix=hourman%2Caps%2C74&ref=sr_pg_2) via what was Comixology (as of today as I type I'm having to move over to Amazon Kindle - wish me luck!)

Other than that your at the hands of the aftermarket, be patient and you'll get these for bobbins.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hourman) except it's not really this is the page for Hourman the character, well characters, but since legacy plays such a big part in this series we'll go with it.

There is a Wikipedia entry for Matthew Tyler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hourman_(android)) specifically as well.

Well at least someone cares Sequential Planet (https://sequentialplanet.com/tom-peyers-hourman-turns-20/) ran a review of the run to mark its 20th Anniversary.

After that I'm kinda scrapping. Good Reads (https://www.goodreads.com/series/300338-hourman) has reviews of most the issues... other than that... well...

Another one I've never even heard of, but I hope at some point he was in Havana...  :lol: ...  :|  ...  :-\  ...  :-X ...  ::)

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 26 December, 2023, 06:33:40 AMThey are available digitally (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=hourman&page=2&crid=6DL73OD2YXS7&qid=1700034991&sprefix=hourman%2Caps%2C74&ref=sr_pg_2) via what was Comixology (as of today as I type I'm having to move over to Amazon Kindle - wish me luck!)

I refuse to bow to the increasing dominance of the you-never-really-own-what-you-buy culture that Amazon champions; presumably Bozos does it because it gets the horn from the power of control. (Yes I did just use an impersonal pronoun as an additional insult.)
I might be forced to buy digital books from Amazon but I won't buy a Kindle and I keep a Windows 7 virtual machine with the software to remove their shitty DRM on standby so I can convert them to ePub or cbz where I can read on my own choice of eReader or tablet, and Amazon can't reach their filthy cadaverous soul-starved fingers in and delete my purchases.

It's so much easier to get a pirated comic than it is to buy and de-DRM your own fairly-bought purchases that it's a wonder anyone bothers to buy them at all.

I want to buy my digital products legally, but Amazon has dominated the ebook market and they don't make it easy to do the right thing.

/rant

Yeah I have to admit I use Amazon more than I should and accept the risk of things changing therefore. The loss of Comixology was rubbish as the Kindle store is like 20% as good and all it really means is I buy a lot LOT less digital comics. Shame but there you go! I have quite enough to read... as do you!

In that Tween-mas (whatever its called I'm old) losing track of days thing BUT thinks its Thursday so...

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 116 - Irredeemable

Keywords: Superheroes, deconstruction, brutal, Mark Waid, Superman

Creators:
Writer - Mark Waid
Art - Peter Krause and Diego Barreto
Colours - Andrew Dalhouse

Publisher: Boom! Studios

No. issues: 37
Date of Publication: 2009 - 2012

Last read: 2018

Irredeemable takes the trend in superhero deconstruction to its sadly logical conclusion of going full on breakdown into supervillainy. It makes for a hard hitting story that deftly manages to avoid falling into the trap of just being a Millareque 'LOOK HOW BRUTAL I CAN MAKE THIS' by moving things into some very interesting directions.

(https://i.imgur.com/hQFV0va.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Plutonian is Superman, but unlike Clark Kent, raised by loving adoptive parents in the good ol' US of A to live life right, Plutonium is raised by a damaged mother and comes from a broken home. Which gives this series its weakest point, which I will return to. So what if you had those incredible powers but in a human with all the weakness and frailty that us regular folks commonly have. Well eventually you snap. Something gives, the pressure, the adoration, the separation from humanity twist, turn and eventually break you. When Plutonium breaks bad, he breaks on a scale fitting of a creature with his massive power and after killing a few folks here and there he levels Sky City, the stories version of Metropolis.

He truly is irredeemable.

(https://i.imgur.com/93KIogf.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Now so far this will all feel so familiar. There have been countless Superman analogues over the years, numerous tales of how Superman would have turned out if his origin had been different. We've seen superheroes break bad through the ages. There is nothing in that introduction that would make a reader think they are getting anything different. Yet you do. Mark Waid pulls off an incredible sleight of hand.

Firstly he's a bloody good writer and he delivers this tale as old as time, well as old as Superman at least, with the smart intelligence that his comics at their best offer. It's so well written you don't really feel that you've read it all before. At first he also does it with such gusto and commitment that he pulls you along. He takes that Mark Millar trick of throwing excess at a story and thinking his forced sense of scale will make it exciting and does what Millar so often fails to do and adds intelligence and character to the piece.

Plutonian is a terrible, broken person, and you feel that. You get a real sense of him and the extremes he knows he's fallen to and the pain that has driven him to this. His sense of power and inadequacy are laid bare. Yet he's made to feel real enough to be relatable... well as fair as that can go for a monster and you become invested in him, his story might be terrible but you engage with it and him. He's compelling.

(https://i.imgur.com/KtkG43y.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

This is enhanced by a rich supporting cast. Initially focused on the heroes and villains who have the paths they have chosen shaken to their core by Plutonian's actions. In the main these are super-powered folk on the whole. Paradigm (what a great name for a superhero team!) serves the role of the Justice League. Those that survive Plutonian's initial onslaught are terrified and desperately try to formulate plans to stop him. Samsara fulfilling the sidekick role seems to have a privital part to play as well. Then there are the villains, and particularly Modeus who fills the Lex Luthor role as Plutonian's super intelligent arch nemesis. Others join as the series continues.

All these characters are so well realised and freshly drawn that though a cast of archetypes they feel new and different. Nothing here feels tired and old, even when it should. The world these characters have inhabited is turned on its head and so then is irtheir role in it. This is so well handled it's made believable and yet the supporting cast all retain a sense of who and what they are.

(https://i.imgur.com/qlXwASS.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Waid has another trick up his sleeve. He keeps things moving at a really brisk pace. There are twists and turns a plenty. The large cast offers all sorts of different avenues for the story to move down. More than that however Mark Waid takes you to places you just don't expect. Just as the series could move into territory that makes it feel as old as its premise suggests, Waid will jig to the left, spin to the right and grab your attention by moving things in a direction you simply don't expect. You simply don't get the chance to sit still long enough to doubt what you are reading. Not in a way that feels manufactured or forced, it all fits together quite organically, but sets Irredeemable apart from other stories of a similar nature. Character reveals feel earnt and make sense, or if they don't you don't get the chance to reflect on it too much before the next plot beat slaps you in the face to grab your attention. Its breathless stuff, but while it keeps you moving its energy and commitment to its themes and characters keep you moving along with it.

There's magical mystery supre powerful alien races, robotic duplicates, extra-dimensional super demons, every exciting superhero trope is thrown into the mix. And there are some new concepts as well to keep things fresh. Gehnom, an asylum in the heart of a sun created to imprison the most dastardly of evil entities, is my favourite and provides the best example of how the series goes to the most fascinating extremes.

(https://i.imgur.com/DbjmRN1.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

There are a few things I have problems with. Lots of folks seem to love Peter Krause and Diego Barreto's art across the series. I have to be honest, while it's always fine, it's never more than that. Its functional, tells the story perfectly well, but doesn't take it to vistas of wonder it might have done in braver hands. That might be entirely deliberate, the solid art keeping the astonishing concepts and power on display grounded, keeping things focused on the characters and their reactions to staggering events. A great artist could have balanced these two with more skill and daring. To be clear the art isn't bad at all, but it's just there and doesn't quite live up to the highs the story takes the reader to.

I also think it's a shame that Plutonians' upbring is so rough. It almost provides too much of an excuse for what he becomes, well excuse might not be the correct word, his actions are inexcusable, but makes the reason for his fall too easy. I feel it might have been better if his upbringing had been more normal, given him a solid foundation, the contrast with Superman would have been stronger. The idea that such immense power can corrupt even the most well balanced of people would have been much more interesting. It would have emphasised the ideas that only the most exceptional of people can handle the fact that with great power comes great responsibility.

Neither of these things take too much away from the series but do mean it's lower down the list than it might have been. 

(https://i.imgur.com/Zg5joK8.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

A few endnotes before I leave you. There is a twin series by Mark Waid, Incorruptible that started a few months after Irredeemable and takes an opposite view in examining what happens when a supervillain is forced to become heroic due to the actions of Plutonian. For reasons that escape me I've not read this one, though I fully intend to at some point, just too many comics out there. It ends in parallel with the ending of Irredeemable to after 30 issues.

Irredeemable is also in the zeitgeist at the moment. The series was meant to return in 2023, quite how escapes me given the magnificent ending of the series. But I've not heard more about that for a while now. This might relate to the fact that netflix is also apparently developing the story into a movie. It's gone quiet on that front, possibly due to the writers strike, who knows and maybe the comic returning is designed to be coordinated with the movie. Time will tell.

All that said, Irredeemable is a brilliant, hard, entirely satisfying self contained superhero story that really does take modern reimagining of the superheroes to its logical end point. If that tickles your fancy then this is the series for you.


Where to find it

There's a really good value complete collection (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=irredeemable&crid=1WFAO48S8ME4K&sprefix=irredeemable%2Caps%2C76&ref=nb_sb_noss_1) if that works for you.

There are also two digital omnibuses if you don't like the idea of such a lump of a book!

Smaller trades and collections are also available in the aftermarket as well, though with all the attention this series has been getting of late the original floppies are beginning to get pricey.

I personally got these digitally via a Boom! Humble Bundle (https://www.humblebundle.com/) and it might well be worth taking a risk and waiting to see if there's another of those as they are always insanely good value, but I've no idea if one is planned anytime soon.


Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irredeemable) is pretty damned comprehensive, but be warned if you are tempted it has a great plot breakdown with massive spoilers!

Boom! Studio page (https://www.boom-studios.com/series/irredeemable/) is pretty good two with links to digital versions of all this.

Omnidog's Vault (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF44Oz09ouM) has a very positive take on this video. Don't agree with some of that he says, but that's kinda the point. Does have some spoilers mind.

Quite like this short article from There will be games (https://therewillbe.games/articles-books-comics/2182-the-boundaries-that-come-with-being-classic-with-a-review-of-irredeemable-thrown-in) nice little comparison to event superheroics.

Frankly there's a lot out there, just do a search for Irredeemable (not sh*t Sherlock!) but add comics or whatever to the end and there's loads of reviews of the collections and what not. This one isn't too difficult to read up on despite being a little off the beaten track.

No festive break Colin?

Or did you have these banked prior to the holidays?

really enjoying these reviews.

Keep them coming 😁

I've got a number banked. Try to keep at least 10 ahead. Haven't written much at all over the holidays - other stuff keeping me busy - BUT had planned for this so still have a 10 entry (excluding the not on's) - though may do some this week as I miss writing them.

So as its a little quiet on the board I've decided to do just the one this week while we rev up into the New Year. To 'make up' - ahem cos folks will miss these so much! - I've also got a 'Not on the list' tomorrow as well. But enough with the preamble to business...

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 115 - Spider-man: Kraven's Last Hunt

Keywords: Superheroes, super villains, death of Spider-man, black costume

Creators:
Writer - J.M. DeMatteis
Art - Mike Zeck pencils, Bob McLeod inks
Colours - Bob Sharen, Janet Jackson (not that one silly), Mike Zeck

Publisher: Marvel Comics

No. issues: 6
Date of Publication: 1987

Last read: 2009

Spider-man doesn't have too many truly great stories. Sure he has loads that folks love, from Lee and Ditko (see me tomorrow about that...), Stern and Romita Jr... errr others but these are good, fondly remembered stories. To me he only has one and that's great.

(https://i.imgur.com/FSIFMHs.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

And it's funny cos it could be argued this isn't even really a Spider-man comic, it's really a Kraven mini-series with Spidey in it... well kinda of. Rather it highlights the differences between the Kraven of this story and Spider-man. Kraven here is a broken, depressed man. Tormented by years of failure, in his mind, self medicating using drugs, in the form of spider venom here, and seeking a sad misplaced final victory, celebrated in the most terrible way.

Contrasted against this is Spider-man the hero who consistently finds hope and need to uphold what he loves and believes in. The hero who overcomes his challenges in the most positive ways - well in the context of superhero comics when overcoming challenges is so often simplified to hitting things. Who though tormented by his failing turns them into positive drivers to seek a better life and impact on his world. While his outward facing wise cracking nature maybe a facade it's symbolic of his positive nature.

(https://i.imgur.com/DFz3dOZ.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

Kraven 'kills' and literally puts Spider-man in a grave so he can replace him. Turning Spider-man into a vicious beast as he only sees the violence in the character, the violence in himself he projects onto Spider-man. In his depression, and by this stage it is riddled with mania as well, he is entirely incapable of understanding the love that means Spider-man is so much more. We the reader are given contrast very clearly, it's shown without doubt in very stark terms.

At the same time we are shown Spider-man's ability to escape even the most extreme situation, to escape even his death, driven by the love he has for life and his world. In this instance it's explicitly his love for Mary Jane - who he had recently married in the comics. Now at this point I can almost feel people cringing with another story akin to so many Doctor Whos or other pieces of genre melodrama of love saving the day. And it is that. It is however shaped and crafted so well, shown in contrast with so much darkness, so it doesn't feel like a trite truism. It's reflected so strongly in who and what Peter Parker is as a character and the specific events in his life in the comics at the time it feels personal and real in a story context well earnt. This is Spider-man finding inner strength as he does in the famous issue 33. It's rooted in his love and sense of responsibility but it's actuated for personal reasons by someone who we engage with and so we trust it. We feel his pain and struggle and rather than give a groan or cynical sigh as he triumphs, I punch the air with delight fueled by sympathy. He's the best of us, but he's us. The very thing that Kraven sadly fails to see.

(https://i.imgur.com/hugraHr.png)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

Vermin, a human rat type villain, a literal human animal, created by DeMatteis and Zeck during the Captain America run together, is placed in the middle of these two. When Kraven takes over Spider-man's name he hunts and defeats Vermin, something Spider-man was only able to do with the help of Captain America. So in his mind proving that he is a better Spider-man. The defeat of Vermin marks his apparent triumph. Kraven though cages Vermin in his victory, traps him, locks him inside. Later in the story - and there will be spoilers in this one, Spider-man rather than physically beat Vermin leads him into the light above the world of the sewers Vermin inhabits, this overwhelms and subdues him. Spider-man finds a more humane way to defeat the human animal. Always great when a superhero finds victory by not punching people, I mean don't get me wrong he does try some punching but realising showing Vermin hope in the form of the light of the world is what ultimately gives him victory.

There are many stories that centre on a villain trying to prove they can replace a hero, be a better version of that character. In fact in one of the runs we'll get to much later in these posts there's a story that does just that, but arguably better, we'll see when we get there. In fact the origins of this story show just how flexible the central conceit of the tale is. It was originally proposed as a Wonder Man story with Grim Reaper in the Kraven role (don't worry if you don't know these folks, all you need to know is they are a sibling Marvel hero and villain pairing). This was not taken up and so DeMatteis took the central idea to DC using Batman and the Joker, but it was seen as too similar to The Killing Joke, then in production. It finally found a home in the story here. This is a tried and true story idea in superhero comics.

(https://i.imgur.com/E2JM18l.png)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

What raises this above so many of this type of story, that stops it feeling cliche is the craft and passion that shines through. The long gestation of the tale seeing print seems to have given it the time to develop into something special. It has literally illusions. The William Blake poem 'Tyger' (hello Zenith!), changed to Spyder runs through the tale. It underlines the ideas of duality, fear of darkness, the unknown, the beauty and love that can co-exist in animals of violence and fear. There's likely more as well that I'm not getting. It has plenty of recurring motifs and themes. It's really well written and is layered with meaning, covered better than I will in the links below. It really stands out in the Spider-man stories that surround it at this time. It's incredibly dark, but not in the way that comics of this time will start to move towards, the violent, sexy idea of maturity that will dominate comics soon. This takes its themes and itself seriously and deserves to be read as such.

It has more in common with the Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen of this time. Using superheroes to really deal intelligently with grand ideas. Done less well, and this has so often been the case, in mainstream US comics this can become pretentious and expose the creators and superheroes limitations. Limitations that the best can break beyond and this story does. Is it as smart as the two series mentioned above? Well no it's probably not, do I enjoy it more, well very possibly (we'll come to those two later in this list!). In its context, this ran for two months across all three regular Spider-man comics, its strengths stand out all the more for this and it really is an astonishing piece of work.

(https://i.imgur.com/harbmMA.png)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

It's funny, almost all the series on this list that I've not read in the last 6 or 7 years I will say they need a re-read. For Kraven's Last Hunt that isn't the case, which isn't to say I don't want to read it, this write up, like most has made we want to do just that. Rather these comics are largely burnt into my memory. I picked these comics up when they first came out - and if you look back at my posts this was when I was loving The Avengers. So as you might imagine these blow my mind and I've read them over and over, even if at first I didn't get all the nuances and themes. Those comics are long gone, but I've always had a copy in some form or other, currently a lovely hardcover and I've read it time and again.

A big part of that is Mike Zeck and Bob McLoeds' frankly brilliant art. I love Mike Zeck, his clean, smooth art is so comfortable and easy on the eye. There's nothing immediately obvious as to why it's so good but it's like it gives your comic reading eyes a great big hug. Here though it has that quality and yet it carries the dark, foreboding tone of the story perfectly. His page layouts are also exemplary, it carries the pacing and the story beats with a precision that is hard to beat. All of this in no way compromises his ability to convey the fluidity of movement, the brutality of violence and the powerful emotions the story needs. It's an absolute masterclass, the care and passion for the project just shines through the immaculate art.

The colouring also smashes home the tone and atmosphere of the piece. It's been digitally recoloured in the modern versions I own now, but I think this carries over the deep blues and purples, stark reds and the rich browns of the grave. I think it's Bob Sharen, Janet Jackson and Mike Zeck that deserve the credit for that from their original colouring job, however well it's been redone. Even though there's three folks working on across the three different titles this originally appears in it remains consistent, though that might be done to the recolouring job when this has been treated as a single graphic novel, I'm not sure. Whatever the case in all aspects this is an artistic triumph.

(https://i.imgur.com/EZdfWRT.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

I could go on, I really could, as there is a lot to break down in these comics. Best bet is to check out some of the links below as there are much better takes and alternatives there which will give you really good insights into the story and its themes. Also worth mentioning that it deals with severe mental health issues in a very 80s action comic way. It's better than most in this context but the ending should have trigger warnings these days.

Where to find it

Not a hard one to get hold of this one and is available in all the usual places (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=kraven%27s+last+hunt&crid=U1D06KDVSKZI&sprefix=kraven%27s+last+hunt%2Caps%2C70&ref=nb_sb_noss_1), both physically and digitally. I have a hardcopy of the deluxe edition but if those aftermarket prices for that are to be believed I've made my fortune!

The original floppies are always pretty easy to get hold in the aftermarket but are starting to get a little pricey, though not extreme yet if that's you bag.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraven%27s_Last_Hunt)

Matt Draper (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8G3SvWNFHE) has a brilliant breakdown of the themes in the story.

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kraven%27s+last+hunt) has a few analysis of the story, I've not watched these (aside form the one above) so can't speak to their quality but bet they all offer something of interest.

Interesting take from Shelfdust (https://shelfdust.com/2023/07/12/fearful-symmetry-on-kravens-last-hunt/)

To be honest there is a host of reviews and analysis of this one, it's that sort of story so a quick Google (other search engines are available) will return a LOT of things to dig into so fill ya boots!

Another cool article Colin! I read this in my teens and was blown away by it at the time. Obviously Marvel retconned a certain someone's death some years later, because Marvel sucks.

Mentally I'd sort of mushed this story in with all the 90s slurry era of Superhero stuff where they got all grim and not at all fun, so it was a nice reminder that this pre-dated all that stuff and was actually something of an outlier as a serious, exploratory tale.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Not on the list - Lee / Kirby / Ditko Marvel Comics

This feels like a good time to drop another of these examinations of why some really important comics, that so often make this sort of thing, aren't on my list. And this one is a biggie that sweeps away a LOT of very important and loved comics from the North American mainstream in one easy go.

I said in my last post about Kraven's Last Hunt that that story is the one great Spider-man story I've read and on that basis I need to talk about why you'll not be getting any of Stan Lee's co-created 60s Marvel Comics. So no

(https://i.imgur.com/NaRrahO.png)

Nor any

(https://i.imgur.com/wf3fSEl.png)

Fantastic Four, Spider-man, Hulk, Iron Man, X-Men etc etc all those incredible comics from the start of modern Marvel are of course astonishingly important in terms of how they shaped the modern US comic market. They've indelibly stamped superheroes on the medium, I could argue to the detriment of the art form as a whole in North America and by association the UK. This is slowly changing and the new mainstream of genuine graphic novels found on the shelves of Waterstones and other bookshops are becoming increasingly the dominant form, as superhero comics seem to be starving themselves to death in the self made cage of the Direct Market. The superheroes themselves are running free to film and television to finally find their mass market away from the art form that birthed them...

...or something like that... ANYWAY I say all that as a fan of superhero comics. They have formed a massive part of my comics reading over many, many years and I have an incredible fondness for them still as this list will testify. They are a lot less important to my current reading but still a very significant chunk. So these comics are important to me. I've read a heck of a lot of them via the Essential editions of chunky black and white reprints that Marvel released.

I read them gleefully and then put them up for sale as I realised I probably didn't need to read them again. Or indeed when I have tried to return to them I've not particularly enjoyed them. The simple fact of the matter is they have dated badly, very badly.

That is hardly a surprise. These were mass produced products, churned out at great speed to feed a market of kids hungry for more. Again I need to acknowledge their importance, it's a market for superhero comics that Stan Lee and his co-creators largely built by their seemingly unending imaginations. That however does take away from the factory system that produced them with a rapidity that limited their quality... I think that might annoy fans of the stories, but it's true.

That's not to say they have no quality, Jack Kirby is rightly remembered as the King of comics, he really changed the way art was presented in the mass market. He provided an energy and punch that was so far ahead of its time that it shaped the superhero genre for years to follow and still leaves a massive mark. Steve Dikto wasn't far behind. In their astonishing art the weakness of that mass production is still seen however. Often their vibrant, thrilling pencils were pulled back by inking that simply needed to get the comics out. Inkers like Chic Stone, Vince Colletta and dare I say it Joe Sinnott (look I've just never got on with his inks okay!) churned out these comics to hit deadlines. Frankly this can often show. There will be Jack Kirby comics on my list but they are from a later time when I feel his unequalled creative engine wasn't hampered as much. Where his imagination was allowed to be realised with the liberation it needed to be truly appreciated.

So that leaves us with two other things that hamper these works. Firstly and possibly most controversially for me, that's Stan Lee. Let's put aside the unending debate about who did what. Where credit should be given, I think it's undeniable that Stan Lee played a massive part here. The one element of their creation that doesn't seem to be up for debate is that he scripted the stories that Kirby and Ditko produced from his story outlines. And that scripting isn't great. I really don't enjoy Lee's dialogue. It's hackneyed and laboured. Over wordy and ponderous. Verbose and pulls the energy inherent in the art... yes I do get the irony of me saying that! Honestly it makes the comics a chore to read at times.

The second thing to hamper these comics is the reason for all that. The market these comics are aimed at and clearly hit with singular accuracy. These are aimed at young boys and maybe early teens in the 60s. They worked perfectly for that market and have left an impression that lingers to this day. The fact that these are so readily available still is testament to that. It can't be ignored though that this was the target audience and it shows through so clearly. I'm not that market and so more often than not these stories bounce off me and feel the full weight of their simplicity and naivety. Even the greats, Fantastic Four 51 'This man this monster', Spider-man 33, when he struggles magnificently to throw massive machinery from his shoulders, amazing though they were at the time do not have the power of the stories they will inspire.

Now that is not to say I won't be including comics that have similarly dated. One's that to a modern audience just doesn't hold up. They will however hold a place in my comic reading, indeed in how I engage with fiction in all art forms. These will be the formative stories of my childhood that shape how I understand good story and the great works of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko are not those comics for me. I read these much later in life as an adult reader. So on that basis I can appreciate these for what they did, for the impact they have had. I can enjoy these for what they are but I see them through a 'modern' lens for what they are and as such there are much better comics out there I enjoy much, much more.

If these comics hold a place for someone as they read them as they were growing up. If they are part of someone's foundations as a reader I can fully understand why they love them. If someone is a superhero fan and is able to see the craft in these where I see limitations, again that makes perfect sense. Heck if these are just the type of comics some folks love regardless of how they have come to them that makes perfect sense and I get that entirely. They are massively well regarded still after all.

For me however, while I'm glad I've read them and indeed really enjoyed doing so to see and understand how they influenced things I have learnt to love. They are comics I can't see myself returning to anytime soon as they aren't my foundations and don't hold up to the comics reader I have become. 

I imagine for many people this is a matter of nostalgia. I've always found the earliest Marvel stuff not great to read. It often looks good, but it's very of its time, which means bucketloads of sexism and racism. (Mind you, I'm surprised how much this continues to more modern runs – I'm working my way through boxes of Panini Marvel reprints of 2000s-era Marvel, and the number of times 'females' comes up for women or the word 'retard' is used as an insult is astonishing.)

It's also slightly odd to see the humblebrag thing with Spidey. Poor Pete. So put upon. Such a nerd. And yet having to constantly juggle a gaggle of supermodel girlfriends. (It reminds me a lot of Robert Webb's autobiography, which I at the time thought would be a good read, but did this all the way through.) That's also something that seems to have stuck around into more modern takes on the character.

For me, a lot of the above is similarly true of very early 2000 AD. I wasn't there at the time, and so it holds relatively little appeal. I'm no more likely to reread Invasion than the earliest Spidey. Perhaps that's the way with any media – more often than not, your history begins with what you experienced as a kid.

Another eloquent writeup there Colin!

I also think there's definitely a nostalgia factor in the appreciation of books of this age. I occasionally pick up old Marvel comics that I used to have a boy if I see them secondhand, and they still give me a real thrill to read, even though as an adult reader I can see that they're flawed in many ways. Reading old comics that I'm not familiar with however, and these flaws become almost too much to bear: dated dialogue and attitudes, and I'm glad Colin mentions Stan Lee's overworked verbiage because oh my goodness. In fairness it's not just him: I'm reading some old Roy Thomas Marvel Conan stuff on and off, and sometimes it's a serious slog to get through and essentially the polar opposite to Howards original stuff.

I think it's interesting that I retain much more affection for comics of that era of my life though over stuff I read later (to circle back to the Preacher debate, that's a good example of one where the issues now outweigh the delight in reading whereas I can't get enough of Secret Wars). I'm positive the nostalgia is tied into the whole experience: a carefree childhood, reading the same six comics again and again until you could almost quote them word for word, the feel of the pages and the memory of where I'd tried to colour in Boomerang's costume and stay within the lines. It's the same reason I still love stuff like Whizzer and Chips, or away from comics, Starfleet or Masters of the Universe.

Anyway - my early experience of this era is mainly odd, unconnected issues of Spidey, because it was rare I was bought a comic in those days, and even through the haze of nostalgia I don't think they're essential reading for anyone. I do remember Peter and being a put-upon little nerd though who couldn't get a date with Betty Brant and everyone hated him. I'm sure I read a few issues years later where he was married to a supermodel and yeah, that kind of takes the pathos out of the character, doesn't it?

I've been a Ditko fan for a long while (yes, I'm the one who likes those demented rant comics he put out later in his career) but it took me until relatively recently - maybe a decade ago - to get around to his Spider-Man and Dr Strange comics. Sure, they're dated in loads of ways, but I found them to be surprisingly strong and still very readable. Strange especially, which took a while to get going but really took off - Spider-Man I could understand why he survived the loss of Ditko and went in different directions but I can't really figure out* why anyone thought they could do better with Doctor Strange, if for no other reason than he's such a Ditko character it's difficult to see anyone else making him more than just a regular mystical supporting character brought in whenever the Avengers or whoever want to fight a magic monster.

*well, okay, I can: he's a character owned by Marvel, they're always going to want to bring him back

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 04 January, 2024, 04:34:47 PMI'm sure I read a few issues years later where he was married to a supermodel and yeah, that kind of takes the pathos out of the character, doesn't it?

It felt like he became a projection of writer wish-lists sometimes. "Oh, woe is me. I have such a complicated love life, having to choose between 17 gorgeous women. Pity me!" The marriage thing is also quite something. I re-read that recently in the Panini comics (which at the time ran a 'classic' strip), and Parker is awful. MJ should have told him to shove it, but, well, 1980s comics.

It's also interesting to note that I quite enjoyed chunks of the run I recalled from Spider-Man and Zoids, despite its various problems. But the bits around the wedding put me off. I carried on for a bit, but then the comic started running a lot of Todd McFarlane strips and that was my off ramp. I'm not keen on the art and the writing was trash.

Quote from: 13school on 05 January, 2024, 10:25:39 AM...Spider-Man I could understand why he survived the loss of Ditko and went in different directions but I can't really figure out* why anyone thought they could do better with Doctor Strange, if for no other reason than he's such a Ditko character it's difficult to see anyone else making him more than just a regular mystical supporting character brought in whenever the Avengers or whoever want to fight a magic monster.

Oh that's interesting I'd have gone the other way. Much as I like any number of Spidey stories and think he's a great character has anything really changed, in the very top level sense, since thr Ditko stories? They are fun stories of a fun character but functionally run the same ground? Where as in my mind Doc Strange, who I don't like as much as Spidey as it goes, has much more scope for other creators to explore in truly different ways? Interesting to hear the opposite point made. Mind fair to say I'm nowhere near as well versed in Doc Strange as I am in Spidey so could be miles off.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 05 January, 2024, 07:18:41 PM

Quote from: 13school on 05 January, 2024, 10:25:39 AM...Spider-Man I could understand why he survived the loss of Ditko and went in different directions but I can't really figure out* why anyone thought they could do better with Doctor Strange, if for no other reason than he's such a Ditko character it's difficult to see anyone else making him more than just a regular mystical supporting character brought in whenever the Avengers or whoever want to fight a magic monster.

Oh that's interesting I'd have gone the other way. Much as I like any number of Spidey stories and think he's a great character has anything really changed, in the very top level sense, since thr Ditko stories? They are fun stories of a fun character but functionally run the same ground? Where as in my mind Doc Strange, who I don't like as much as Spidey as it goes, has much more scope for other creators to explore in truly different ways? Interesting to hear the opposite point made. Mind fair to say I'm nowhere near as well versed in Doc Strange as I am in Spidey so could be miles off.

I guess I'm thinking more that Spidey as a character had more scope to develop and grow naturally. Peter Parker could get older, meet new people, face new villains, etc, all while still retaining his core "Spider-man", whereas Strange is much more set in stone as a concept, with less room to develop beyond his initial set-up without massively changing the character.

Put another way, Spider-Man is a much more modern character, where his personality is the focus and soap-opera style hijinx are part of his appeal (and changes developing out of that side of things can seem organic and natural). But Strange is a pulp character, where his basic set-up and character are set in stone (like James Bond or The Shadow) and the stories come from him having new adventures rather than ongoing personal dramas.

With Strange those weird Dikto settings for the various mystic realms (plus his brilliant visuals for the bad guys) are the big thing that sets the character apart for mine - without them he's just another comic book mystic, for good or ill.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 114 -  Worlds of Aldebaran

Keywords: Sci-Fi, Bande dessinee, Cinebook, epic

Creators:
Writer - Leo
Art - Leo
Colours - Leo

Publisher: Dargaud in the original French, Cinebook in english

No. issues: 27 albums in French, 26 of which have been translated.
Date of Publication:

Last read: 2012, though I have more on the list to catch up with soon

Originally published for the French (and Continental European market) The Worlds of Aldebaran centres around the adventures of Kim Keller and their exploration of alien worlds and the life forms that inhabit them. Its epic nature expands things well beyond that. The stories are in cycles, each focusing on a different planet. To date we have Aldebaran, Betelgeuse, Antares, Survivors (which explores the past in story terms), Return to Aldebaran and Neptune. With Bellatrix having hit the French market as well.

(https://i.imgur.com/7WZssMq.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Worldbuilding can become incredibly dry when not done correctly. When done correctly however it can make for astonishing rich stories that balance that worldbuilding with great storytelling and that's what Leo (who I should note is Brazilian though he works in the French market.) does in Worlds of Aldebaran. The stories travel between world's, typically, exploring the flora and fauna of each, not only in great detail, but also in a way that makes the astonishing life forms shown believable and dare I say it scientifically plausible, well as much as any fiction of this type is able too.

This is however centred in a very human story. Earth's population is looking for worlds it can colonise and so it sends teams to various possible planets to see if they are fit for human habitation. Hence we naturally get introduced to the lifeforms on these planets as the exploratory teams learn more to assess how viable human colonisation is. The story centres on the very human reactions to these worlds as they are explored. Those reactions are very varied as you might imagine. The reasons behind all this also provide a bigger scale to things and the political motivations for this exploration have a big impact on the stories and there are plenty of other mysteries that slowly unfold.

Ecology, human impacts on nature and the greed, fears and desperation that can underpin those impacts are all explored as well as the alien biomes.

(https://i.imgur.com/BKTxbDG.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

So if the exploration of human characters is so important to that world building who are they? Well our point of view character is Kim Keller and I'm going to commit heresy in these parts by saying she's a character that really reminds me of Halo Jones. She starts the saga as a young teen and while she feels a little lost and out of her depth at first she is tenacious and smart, resourceful and compassionate. She is orphaned by an apparent natural disaster at the start of the series and so liberated from a home life that binds her she grows before our eyes. Across the series of books she becomes a trained biologist, falls in love, has a mysterious, exceptional baby with an equally exceptional father, finds fame and finds wisdom and significance that transcends her humble origins. Just like Halo she becomes something so much as she goes 'Out' and explores the world to find her place in a universe. She shines with a similar light as inimitable Ms Jones.

As to be expected in a saga that explores the galaxy there are so many more fantastic characters. The cast is rich and diverse. As with so many bande dessinee the characters don't fall into simple archetypes. They do populate a sci-fi action adventure but within the confines of that they don't fall into simple tropes and all feel fleshed out and real. Their relationships feel complex and you can love and hate them in equal measure. They are as well explored and detailed as the alien lifeforms they example. The delicate balancing act of the world building and character driven story is perfectly maintained.

(https://i.imgur.com/d0PFTpd.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

The scope of the series extends beyond all this as well. The reasons for the exploration of the stars are underlined. There are also regulations put in place by the UN to ensure that should a planet be inhabited by 'evolved' lifeforms, those who use tools, then that planet can't be colonised. The definition of evolved and use of tools of course relates to far more human thinking and definitions. So the determination of whether a planet is fit for habitation is open to interruption and manipulation. This leads to political undercurrents throughout the series. The financial investment and greed inherent in modern human society aren't ignored and there are consequences to the actions of those investigating planets should they not meet the capitalised drivers to achieve.

The alien specifics encountered are also vast and a number of them have 'powers' and ability far beyond what the earth has seen. To the extent that to our limited perspective they have almost mystical powers, or at least capacity beyond human comprehension. These are played off really well against the more 'typical' species with commonality in structure and life cycle that have evolved on earth. The Mantris are foremost of these in the series mysterious, massive intelligent aquatic shapeshifters that have a very significant impact on the planets they inhabit and seemingly human colonisation as well. Another alien species from the homeworld of the Mantris are more humanoid and one of them, Sven, has a very profound impact on Kim and her story.

The whole series feels both massive and epic in scale while providing an intimate character driven story and can't say too often how well it balances these elements.

(https://i.imgur.com/nDLt8l0.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

Leo's art is at its strongest when he's realising the worlds he creates and their inhabitants. Alien species, both alien and planet look entirely real and plausible. Even the most goofy looking seems to make perfect sense. You feel you understand and comprehend the way they move, inhabit their biomes and would interact with other creatures on their planets. It feels as if Leo must have reams of notes about how the species live, feed, their life cycles and structures far beyond that which we see in the series. It's not just the alien lifeforms, the environments and landscapes seem entirely solid and present the possibility of things far beyond what we see on the page. Forests are lush and beautiful while foreboding and creepy. Sweeping savannah, dusty canyons, isolated shoreline all feel familiar and recognisable while being broken with the alien and wonderful. The art for the worlds he crafts is astonishing.

To be honest though his work on human characters isn't as strong. They can feel rigid and a little stilted. While he is able to convey emotions and reactions really well the figure work isn't the best. Nothing is so bad as to pull you out of the story, but it doesn't enhance it. The best comparison I can give is that he's a more grounded Massimo Belardinelli, though important to note that the fact he is more grounded takes nothing away from the visual imagination on display.

The art is also slightly hampered by some clumsy edits to remove nudity, but this does make them more accessible to younger readers.

Overall though these stories are an absolute triumph of world building (how often have I used that term here!) and human storytelling. Each cycle - they are detailed in the Wikipedia link below - is a well crafted stand alone tale. Pulled together they are an epic saga that is greater than the sum of its parts. Whether there is an end in sight I don't know, but don't be put off by that, this one is about exploration and long may it continue as we discover more and more.

From thinking about this series I realise how much I enjoy world building, when crafted well and revealed through real relatable story and characters. The wonderous elements appeal to me here and in so many stories. They allow the tales that do this at its best to expand horizons into the realms of imagination while at the same time giving me insights into myself and human nature using the exaggerations inherent in sci-fi.

(https://i.imgur.com/RSMqyXm.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Error log 1.01

I'm going to make a quick note at the end here as I've made a mistake on the list, this won't be the last such note. This is the last entry from Cinebook and that just shouldn't be the case. As I've typed this one up I've realised this should be a LOT higher and there are other Cinebook that should have been included. My bad but I'm trying to keep the list as it is but this one feels like an error that needs pointing out. The Scorpion, Chimpanzee Complex, SAM, Long John Silver should all be included. It's not even that I didn't think about them when making the list. Rather I just didn't feel the impact from them at that time. Writing this one up has made me aware what an error that was!

(https://i.imgur.com/RlY5kBR.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

Where to find it

Cinebook keep most of their titles in print. They don't alas have a comprehensive single page for all the World of Aldebaran series so bear with me.

Aldebaran and Betelgeuse (https://www.cinebook.co.uk/aldebaran-c-142_149_251.html)

Antares (https://www.cinebook.co.uk/antares-c-142_149_272.html)

The Survivors (https://www.cinebook.co.uk/the-survivors-c-142_149_309.html) - set 100 years before the main series but well worth reading.

Return to Aldebaran (https://www.cinebook.co.uk/return-to-aldebaran-c-142_149_401.html)

Neptune (https://www.cinebook.co.uk/neptune-c-142_149_463.html)

There are digital versions available via Amazon Kindle (https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/Leo/author/B074PQQRJW?ref=ap_rdr&store_ref=ap_rdr&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true). Just check the language before purchasing as I couldn't find a filter!

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worlds_of_Aldebaran)

Creatures of Aldebaran (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUUs-tNRd4g) are detailed in this 'documentary' video that's cutely put together. If some of the creature graphics are a little naive.

Same same for the Creatures of Betelgeuse (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APMb4BemK6s)

Grovel (https://www.grovel.org.uk/category/series/worlds-of-aldebaran/) has a nice life page collecting reviews from a number of the albums in the series.

If your French (or other languages in fact) are better than mine you'll find a lot more worth looking at I'd imagine.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

Intriguing one there Colin. I've looked at this series once or twice but never read any. The name always puts me in mind of All-Bran unfortunately and I think that's subliminally put me off by flavouring the series like a bland breakfast cereal in my mind.

I also think this looks really good and worth a look.

Cinebooks sheer volume of titles can often be a bit overwhelming if you don't know anything about them, so a recommendation is always welcome. The ones I've read have been generally excellent, although it's annoying (if understandable) when the art is edited.

Anyway, the first part of this series is definitely going on my future purchase list.

Quote from: Blue Cactus on 08 January, 2024, 05:46:11 PMIntriguing one there Colin. I've looked at this series once or twice but never read any. The name always puts me in mind of All-Bran unfortunately and I think that's subliminally put me off by flavouring the series like a bland breakfast cereal in my mind.

I also always call Betelgeuse, Beetlejuice and have never been able to do otherwise regardless of what Tharg says!

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 09 January, 2024, 10:22:16 AMI also think this looks really good and worth a look.

Cinebooks sheer volume of titles can often be a bit overwhelming if you don't know anything about them, so a recommendation is always welcome. The ones I've read have been generally excellent, although it's annoying (if understandable) when the art is edited.

Anyway, the first part of this series is definitely going on my future purchase list.

There's a thread (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=35245.msg1065787#msg1065787) with various recommendation if you can face wading through it. Generally just go for it as I've rarely been disappointed and the truism 'You can't judge a book by its cover.' is often wrong when it comes to Cinebook!

Cheers Colin! Not sure how I've missed that thread in the past.

Big Cinebook order coming up...

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 09 January, 2024, 11:42:51 AMCheers Colin! Not sure how I've missed that thread in the past.

Big Cinebook order coming up...

If you wait until you are at a Con they are at they typically have amazing deals if you buy in bulk. Just depends if you attend cons they go to... I miss going to Thought Bubble!

I'm not much of a con dude generally, but noted!
I've ordered a handful of books based off that thread, so that's my upcoming comic reading sorted.

Whilst on the topic, I really enjoyed my first experience of Bat Lash Colin, thanks for the impassioned post about it!

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 08 January, 2024, 07:47:20 AMThe art is also slightly hampered by some clumsy edits to remove nudity, but this does make them more accessible to younger readers.

I remain baffled by the decision to do this, and indeed it somewhat rubs up against my anti-censorship stance in a particularly irksome way (the nudity in these books is so much a nothingness and unerotic that it really begs the question of what the point was), so it's probably a testament to how much I agree with Colin that Leo has crafted one of the most enriching, all encompassing worlds in comics through this series that I can not only let it slide but offer it the highest of recommendations.
I really, really must get around to catching up!

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 09 January, 2024, 12:06:29 PMWhilst on the topic, I really enjoyed my first experience of Bat Lash Colin, thanks for the impassioned post about it!

That's cool to hear, it really is such a fun comic.

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 10 January, 2024, 09:52:29 AM...Leo has crafted one of the most enriching, all encompassing worlds in comics through this series that I can not only let it slide but offer it the highest of recommendations.
I really, really must get around to catching up!

Testify brother.

Love when so contrasting series appear next to each other. All-bran is a wide open, massive piece of world building cross many volumes. This next, understandly (I hope) shorter entry... well its at the opposite end of the world building scale! That said may I give you...

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 113 - Cowboys and Insects

Keywords: Short story, giant insects, morality tale

Creators:
Writer - David Hine
Art - Shaky Kane
Colours - Shaky Kane

Publisher: Aces Weekly digitally and Floating World Comics physically.

No. issues: 1
Date of Publication: 2013

Last read: The other day

By far the shortest series on the list, which might seem fitting but the insects in it are huge!

(https://i.imgur.com/ISRKdqH.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

Cowboys and Insects first appeared in the weekly digital comic Aces Weekly, and was picked up by Floating World Comics (a comic shop turned publisher) for a physical release in 2016. It comes in at a tiny 28 5.25" by 8" landscape pages and proves that good things do indeed come in small packages.

It tells a short morality tale about group think - or indeed a hivemind - being anathema to individuality, however ridiculous the ideas that group think is based on. Set in an alternative mid 20th century middle America it shows a society where nuclear testing has seen insects grow to enormous size and become the foundation of the US economy and life style. They are used for entertainment, and primary food source, herded by the cowboys of the title. We are introduced to this world by Chip, a young teenager in the 'perfect' nuclear family.

(https://i.imgur.com/fnZ6QAH.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

He moves to a new town, falls for a girl, eats fried insect wings and rides with an ant-headed version of the KKK. A tale as old as time. His naivety and innocence is used to brilliantly contrast with the dark undercurrent of the world he lives in, covered in a veneer of civility. The wanderlust and just plain lust shines through his eyes. The damage of the cruelty towards those that don't conform is subtly presented in his quiet actions, the harm that does to him in turn.

All of this, the incredible world, the human characters are wonderfully realised by Shaky Kane's astonishing art. It conveys the abnormal with a gruesome calmness that really underpins its darker aspects without neutering them by sensationalising things... well not sensationalising giant stag beetles clashing as much as possible! Kane's characters look entirely normal, utterly real and yet his style has an uncanny ability to draw out the ugly in this normality, to juxtapose the bizarre with homely goodness to give it a jagged, uncomfortable feel that runs much deeper than the simple discomfort of the things we see before us. An insect production line is much more unsettling when drawn by Shaky Kane than anyone else.

(https://i.imgur.com/4EEvifR.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

The colours add to this effect as well. Bright, welcoming, daylight colours that present the world in sunshine and add to the feeling that all is well, regardless of darkness slipping below the surface. Shaky Kane presents a David Lynch film in comic form, which perfectly adds to David Hine's story that plays with precisely this tone.

When making this list, Cowboys and Insects came quickly and easily to mind as one to be added. I did then wonder whether a one-shot like this could really justify the place. After all, can it really cover the ground and have the 'value' of much longer form stories that are able to explore much deeper, richer territory simply by virtue of the space they have. Unlike almost everything else I'll write about I therefore quickly re-read it. After all, it didn't take long. That re-read made it all too clear that it was entirely justified in its place, in fact I wondered if I'd placed it too low. That size doesn't indeed matter,... well much... it's how well you use it as the cliche holds.

All 28 pages here are used to perfection. The story is simple. Its key theme didn't need drawing out and the creators knew this and knew how much that story needed and didn't drag things out unnecessarily. In less skillful hands, or with creators with less abundant ideas that might well have been a temptation.

(https://i.imgur.com/8MpEAkU.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

After all, the world is very engaging and entertaining. There are plenty of ways this could be spun out. That temptation was deftly avoided though. Hine and Kane had a tale to tell, one with a focused point to make and they had the confidence to tell it with the space it needed. The dressing of a world with giant insects might be a temptation but the story came first and it's told with expert craft and then left.

While it might have limited space, it is densely packed. The world is fleshed out with detail and precision in the art work. The impact of the giant insects drops quietly and unobtrusively into any appropriate corner so you can dwell on the glorious pages to get a real sense of the world and how it operates. The characters are developed well to carry the story, but if we're honest it's not about them, they serve the story in this instance they don't need to be the story.

Then the ending, it is chilling as it is brilliant. It raises the dark undercurrents in the tale slowly and steadily to the surface making it clear that even in a short story such as this pacing is absolutely key. And here the pacing is perfect. Yes if there was more to tell this could place higher, longer form stories by these creators will show that later in the list. So its scale does limit its placing to some degree, but it takes nothing away from the fact that this story works perfectly in 28 pages and those 28 pages alone are worth a place in this list.

(https://i.imgur.com/gCn4frO.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...


Where to find it

This one looked like it was going to be tricky as the physical copy is long out of print and the one copy I could find in the aftermarket was stupidly expensive (I imagine with a bit of effort and patience you could get it a lot cheaper). I did wonder if this one was going to be next to impossible to get hold of BUT I checked Aces Weekly and it seems you can get the original Aces Weekly - its a digital comic - pretty cheaply. All the previous volumes (https://www.acesweekly.co.uk/Back-issues) are still available and if you scroll all the way down to Volume 5 the entire volume is just £6.99 apparently. You get a lot more besides. I can't speak to any of that as I haven't done it BUT it is good to know this stuff is available.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page ain't there for this one.

Not really surprisingly there is not a great deal out there about Cowboys and Insects, but there are a few bits and pieces.

The ever reliable Down the tubes (https://downthetubes.net/sneak-peek-david-hine-and-shaky-kanes-cowboys-and-insects/#:~:text=In%20Cowboys%20and%20Insects%2C%20first,effect%20on%20North%20America's%20insects.) has a nice preview - from where I 'nicked most me images.

Multiversity (http://www.multiversitycomics.com/reviews/cowboys-and-insects/) has a decent review.

As does Haunted phonograph (https://www.hauntedphonograph.com/consequential/2016/cowboys-and-insects-david-hine-shaky-kane).

I'm sure with a bit of effort you can dig out more.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

Hine and Kane are a great combo. Loved The Bulletproof Coffin in particular.

Quote from: Blue Cactus on 11 January, 2024, 11:31:22 AMHine and Kane are a great combo. Loved The Bulletproof Coffin in particular.

Yep I'm very fond of that one too. They are a great team and fit so well together.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 112 - Human Target - Peter Milligan

Keywords: Milligan, Identity, Vertigo, reimagining

Creators:
Writer - Peter Milligan
Art - Edvin Biukovic, Javier Pulido, Cliff Chang and more
Colours - Lee Loughridge and Dave Stewart

Publisher: DC Comics under Vertigo imprint

No. issues: 4 issue mini, OGN and 21 issue ongoing
Date of Publication: 1999 - 2005

Last read: 2012

Identity is an almost ever present theme in Peter Milligan's writing and so what better character for him to work with than Christopher Chance, a character whose specific 'power' is to take over the identity of others. Judge for yourself in

(https://i.imgur.com/sGIudAI.png)
Copyright - DC Comics

Christopher Chance was created for DC by Len Wein and Carmine Infantino in the early 70s. He adapts the role of people targeted by criminals to protect them by becoming a human target for those criminals. Peter Milligan picked the character out of limbo and used him to explore identity across initially a four issue mini-series, then a stand alone graphic novel and finally a 21 issue ongoing series, all of which combine to tell one fantastic tale. They have a singular focus that few of his other works have. That's not to say that he's not explored the ideas of identity before, far from it, as said identity is very much central to almost all his work, rather that it was done with clarity here. His work typically wraps these ideas deeper, combining with other themes, here they are very much on the surface.

For many this was a little too on the nose, it removed the enigma (mayyybe pun intended...ahem.) and complexities that he typically uses. It was all a little too obvious. For me stripping things right back allowed for a much richer exploration of the theme. Allowed the ideas to become clear and detailed, to spread and have the scope, within that theme, that other works of his may have lacked. Also not to say this isn't complex, identity is complex, but it removes other distractions and allows clarity on his core ideas.

(https://i.imgur.com/ek2GkHS.png)
Copyright - DC Comics

Christopher Chance in these stories is really feeling the harm caused to him by being other people to place himself in their danger. The damage he takes isn't just physical, though there is plenty of that, it's much more fundamental damage to who he actually is. He doesn't just mimic people to fool threats, he almost literally becomes them. To then return to being Christopher Chance becomes increasingly difficult. When you have become so many other people for so long what is left of who you are. What does he take of them, what does he lose of himself.

At the beginning of the ongoing this has reached extremes, he doesn't simply return to being Christopher Chance, he has to become Christopher Chance again. Chance has just become another identity he has to adopt. This impacts on his ability to form relationships. How can he be with someone else if he doesn't know who he is and can't find the person he needs to give to another? Is he really in love or is he just trying to find something to feel as though he is still a complete, single person. This is pointedly reflected physically. As Christopher Chance he is unable to perform sexually. When he adopts another persona he has no such issue. Chance seems lost to the Human Target on so many levels. Yet facing this he continues to be the Human Target casting himself deeper and deeper into his own dilemma.

(https://i.imgur.com/v1qZE8t.png)
Copyright - DC Comics

This close examination of the confusion about and loss of identity in of itself would make for fascinating, at times uncomfortable reading. Peter Milligan goes further however. The cast he creates all seem to be having struggles with their identity in some way or other. The targets Chance replaces, the folks chasing them and a host of others all seem to have some sort of double life, or crisis of identity that stops them being who they are, or appear to be.

Two examples are particularly interesting, to me at least. Firstly Tom McFadden whose story book ends the run. First appearing in the mini-series and who comes back at the end of the ongoing run. McFadden is Chance's assistant, who impersonates Chance's after he (Chance) is horribly injured and having to undergo facial reconstruction. McFadden goes even further than Chance does in his assumption of someone else's identity and wants to actually become Chance rather than simply impersonate him. There is a resolution at the end of the mini, but he returns for the final ongoing arc of the series to try once again to assume Chance's life. Including his relationship with Mary White the woman Chance is trying to settle down with. Mary has of course been leading a double life as well as had been revealed earlier.

This sets up a fascinating conclusion with the three in an complex entanglement of who makes the better Christopher Chance. Does it matter if Mary loves Tom as Christopher more than the original Christopher and whether the loss of his identity to someone is actually liberating for Chance. How all this impacts on Tom and why he is so desperate to become this broken man. It's really heady stuff and just typing about it makes me want to re-read it so I can get my head back into it all. 

(https://i.imgur.com/LrmKo0U.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

The second character whose identity issues fascinate me, more than the rest, they are all interesting, is Emma Connors. Apparently a housewife (ouch should we use that term these days?) married to an author, her husband writes books about a character called Emerald, an assassin. Connors, when not supporting her husband, is indeed the assassin Emerald sent to kill Chance in the mini. What we don't know is whether the novels inspired Emma, or Emerald inspired the novels. Her husband apparently doesn't know that Emma is Emerald, or at least doesn't admit to knowing. Again the layers can be peeled away. Is her husband just allowing the lie to exist, denying the double life for his own needs, this happens a lot in the series.

Emma / Emerald also opens the ideas of how fiction impacts the double lives we create for ourselves, the way we play with our own identity or create for ourselves based on the story we engage with. She is of course a fictional character, creating an persona based on a fictional character, so there's probably an over reading I've done that this is all getting pretty meta... but that's likely just me stretching things. These comics will do that to you. They make you think. They make you consider the fictions you create for yourself about yourself. And that is why I think the clear focus of these stories really works.

There are plenty more characters, all the fleshed out ones in this work lead some sort of double life, or play with their identity in some way and I imagine everyone who reads it will be able to find their go to in the story, that reflects things to them about how we deal with our own identity and the fictions we show to others.

(https://i.imgur.com/2qWG8Pw.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

So this all sounds a little cerebral so far, or at least I've tried to reflect that, whether that's worked, well that's up to you. I'm just trying to present as smart! With all this these comics never lose sight of the fact they are action adventure comics. All the playing with its key themes doesn't distract it from being a fun, action packed, violent, sexy piece of entertainment. They're dramatic and exciting. At times genuinely tense. Again a real benefit of Milligan giving things a really tight focus. By concentrating on his key theme the comics have the space and clarity they need to explore intriguing ideas really closely while keeping a pace and sense of action and adventure that I feel can sometimes get lost in Peter Milligan's more complex work (see I'm only pretending to be smart!).

I can't think of a story he's done that's managed to quite balance those two elements: the thought provoking ideas and the action, as well since maybe Bad Company. He does it with real skill in Human Target and it pulls you along with break neck speed and only when I'd stop to take a breath did I start to dwell on the deeper, more satisfying thoughts this was kicking off. It's brilliant stuff.

(https://i.imgur.com/dnZqBZM.png)
Copyright - DC Comics

With all this talk of Peter Milligan it's easy to lose sight of quite how good the art is throughout this run. Principally by Edvin Biukovic for the mini-series, Javier Pulido for the OGN and start of the ongoing, Cliff Chang finishing off the ongoing. There are a couple of fill-ins here and there. Each of these incredibly talented artists brings something different to the stories, they all add a slightly different slant. It is also of course very fitting that a series that deals with conflicts in identity and double lives has a number of different artists giving it varied looks and feels.

All of the artists are fantastic though and carry the storytelling, action and motion and the more intimate human moments real power and work perfectly well. The entire run is an artist treat.

Human Target is relatively close to the top of my re-read list and while writing the nonsense for all these series makes me want to immediately re-read pretty much everything I've whittered about, few, if any, have made me excited to return to a series more than this one. It's the type of series that I know will give me more, provide different insights each time I read it. While providing a thrilling comic adventure with a satisfying beginning, middle and end.

(https://i.imgur.com/KkotbN5.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

Where to find it

Not  all of the run has been released (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=human+target+peter+milligan&i=stripbooks&rh=n%3A266239%2Cn%3A274081%2Cp_n_feature_browse-bin%3A400530011&dc&ds=v1%3A1JjHAQOUNC%2FfK0cFKdiTiKkyku4XP6R4oeio4ErlWxE&crid=2HPRQGDP9BHIQ&qid=1701942663&rnid=266239&sprefix=human+target+peter+%2Caps%2C68&ref=sr_nr_n_7) in trades. You can get the mini, the OGN and the first 10 issues of the ongoing physically I believe. Which is a shame as this would make a lovely omnibus for those that like that sort of thing. What is it with DC and not releasing all of Peter Milligan's runs!

You can get it all digitally via Comixology... well Amazon Kindle (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07JK3B194?binding=kindle_edition&qid=1701942876&sr=1-17&ref=dbs_dp_rwt_sb_pc_tukn) these days I guess.

The aftermarket will be your friend here though. I got these from the lovely still occasional boarder 'I Cosh' (Hi Pete - thanks again for these, still love um. Hope this one might draw you here!) for bobbins. I've just done a quick search and you can get a full run of the ongoing for £25 all in for example (as I type likely finished by the time this comes out so no link). So worth it at that price.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Target_(Vertigo))

Atomic Junk Shop (https://atomicjunkshop.com/comics-you-should-own-human-target/) has a fantastic overview of the series well worth reading.

Good Reads (https://www.goodreads.com/series/53537-human-target) has all the normal reviews from folks.

That aside a criminally under discussed title worthy of much more love and attention. Kinda gets lost a little when you search in discussion of Tom King and Greg Smallwood's very good, but not this good recent mini.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

I wish I could say more than "I remember enjoying reading this in 2007 when I was bed bound after breaking my leg", but that's all I can summon from my memory. The break was a bad one and I spent six months mostly in bed (though I did have a wheelchair it was a pain in the arse / leg to use) and so I spent a lot of time watching dvds via lovefilm and reading comics, and I read so many that some are hard to recall in detail. I'm glad to hear you rate it so highly though, and if I ever see it out in the wild for a fair price I'll pick it up.

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 16 January, 2024, 09:21:19 PMI wish I could say more than "I remember enjoying reading this in 2007 when I was bed bound after breaking my leg", but that's all I can summon from my memory. The break was a bad one and I spent six months mostly in bed (though I did have a wheelchair it was a pain in the arse / leg to use) and so I spent a lot of time watching dvds via lovefilm and reading comics, and I read so many that some are hard to recall in detail. I'm glad to hear you rate it so highly though, and if I ever see it out in the wild for a fair price I'll pick it up.

Well worth it it for sure.

This is the kind of series I would now hunt down but I'm just not a single issues collector (other than 2000ad/Meg. Maybe one day they'll collect the lot.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 111 - Paper Girls

Keywords: TV series, Image, Brian K Vaughan, Stranger Things

Creators:
Writer - Brian K Vaughan
Art - Cliff Chiang
Colours - Matt Wilson

Publisher: Image Comics

No. issues: 30
Date of Publication: 2015 - 2019

Last read: 2023

Arh it's nice to have a series that I've happened to re-read recently on the list. To have my own thoughts fresh in my mind and not triggered by reading around the stories. I sometimes wonder how much that, the reading around the series I do to jog my memories, impacts my reflections. Anyway this one I read a few months ago after watching the decent and sadly curtailed TV series. The better version of Stranger Things* its

(https://i.imgur.com/5d0kTkj.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

*I've not got around to watching Stranger Things and so have no idea if this is better, but I love these comics so I said it anyway!

Paper Girl's tells the story of four 12 year old paper girls who meet up on their paper round in the small American town of Stony Stream during the early hours of 1st November 1988, so called Hell Day. Named as such, at least by the girls, as due to the troubling ne're do wells still rumbling around after Halloween. As the girls ride around together, finding protection in unity they soon discover that teenages on a sugar comedown are the least of their worries. The sky becomes pink, mysterious hooded characters appear, they find a time machine...by the time pterosaurs appear ridden by white clad future warriors it's apparent things aren't as they should be.

Erin - the new girl, Mac a troubled straight talking, no-nonsense 'tomboy', Tiff the smart gamer who carries two walkie talkies and KJ the rich kid from 'private school' armed with a hockey stick, are then cast into an adventure across time. Discovering all sorts of wonders and most importantly so much about themselves.

Before I go any further let's put aside the comparisons to Stranger Days. To be honest from my understanding (see above I've still to watch Stranger Days, but do intend to get around to it.) it's very similar to the comparisons 'Dredd' 2012 had with 'The Raid'. The comic was out long before Stranger Days - the comparisons came into focus when the comics were adapted to TV. So any similarities are actually Stranger Days drawing on Paper Girls rather than the other way around. They are also pretty surface level. Both stories are driven by a group of young teens in the 80s. Both groups are cast into alternative worlds, or in Paper Girls future (and past) timelines. Both groups confront authority groups that are dubious at best. And that's about it, look any deeper and these are apparently very different. There's a good article from Screenrant that tackles and boxes off all that.

(https://i.imgur.com/gzRj6VY.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

That said it'll be no surprise to learn that for all the time travelling adventure and sci-fi hi-jinx the absolute heartbeat of the comic is the four lead characters. How their friendships develop, how they develop is central to all the themes the comics have. And frankly they are wonderful. They feel honest and real. My daughter is now 14 so I have relatively fresh memories of 12 year old girls and while each is different to her, different maturity, focus and backgrounds they all capture that struggle between childhood and the very beginning of growing up. They act far more maturely than they actually are, but the need to learn and grow shines through.

They are also fundamentally fantastic characters as well. I engaged with them straight away and as things unfolded events mattered simply due to the characters pulling you in and making you care about them. It's also incredibly refreshing to see a diverse cast, primarily of women from all generations handled so well. Typically the males play a less important part and those that play a significant role typically follow more rigidly to dogmatic views. Though this isn't forced or pushed, there's no overt agenda there, mind screaming non progressive males on the internet seem duty bound to dig into it and kick back. Here the diversity is rich and that diversity just happens to be from a female perspective.

(https://i.imgur.com/m6GH3A8.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

The story itself is structured over six arcs. The first sets the wheels in motion and puts all the pieces in place. The last wraps things up and we will return to that later in a spoiler free way. The four middle arcs each have a focus on one of the paper girls. That is not to the detriment of the others as the key to understanding any one character is found in their interactions and developing relationships with their friends, they do have a clear focus though. So we get to spend some time exploring each and really getting to know them and how their adventures help them grow.

This is enhanced by the fact that all the girls, with one notable exception (cue ominous music) met future versions of themselves. These interactions, the 12 year olds meeting their older selves provide some of the best character moments in a series of brilliant character moments. Try to imagine your twelve year old self meeting you now, or you in your 20s or you as at any stage of your life... yeah it's like that...disappointment is involved! At age 12 we are still a world of possibilities old enough to start anticipating the seeming infinite and wonderful opportunities we will have. Young enough to be full of naive hopes and dreams. As we grow older and our lives are defined, our options diminished, well... well in most cases we don't quite achieve what we might have dreamt at that formative age. This rich vein is explored brilliantly as the paper girls move across time.

(https://i.imgur.com/JBts8k1.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

This is made all the more powerful by the juxtaposition between their astonishing adventures and the banal reality of where life seems to lead them, well in most cases. Not only do they encounter themselves but as they travel across time they encounter all sorts of wonders. They travel forward to see glorious neon sci-fi futures, they travel back to encounter prehistoric monsters and cultures, they visit 1999... hey look I had a great time in 1999 okay, that was a good year!

Erin, Tiff, KJ and Mac's adventures start as they get embroiled in a war between two future cultures. The Old Timers, led by Grand Father determined to close down time travel to prevent meddling with the past, changing the future and disrupting fate. Their descendants and enemies The Teenagers, who believe history can be altered for the better and travel back to try to achieve just that while pursued by the much better resourced Old Timers.

This conflict opens up themes that run through the series beyond friendship and growing up. This is much more than 'Stand by Me.' set in the 80s. The idea that friendship at this formative time can shape and change you and how we try to cling onto those friendships and the hopes and insights they give you that you've been unable to see in yourself are all there. In addition to this the ideas of determinism are dealt with. Can we change our fates, do we as adults fear that the choices we made in our formative years have been from free will, or do we give ourselves the excuse that it was all bound to happen.

The Old Timers present as holding onto what has gone, refusing to accept that change is possibly positive. Suitably the teenages are far less bound by the status quo and feel change must be made for the better. The paper girls, at the point in their lives that writer Vaughan believes determines so much, seem trapped in this struggle. There seem to be certain fates they can't change and yet when they see the consequence of that fate they fight against it, trying to do all they can to alter their lives. Though all the time they really just want to get home and live those lives, regardless of whether they are bound or not.

(https://i.imgur.com/GowNLkA.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

The way Paper Girls handles the view of the past and nostalgia is also important. Attitudes of the 80s are lead bare, This isn't a romanticised view of the past, one soaked in nostalgia. Early on Mac uses some pretty horrible language and while she is called on it it's a fair reflection of attitudes of the time and the casual prejudicial language we used, with intent or not. Retaining the 'glory' of the past is important to the Old Timers.

We see however that our four leads, though bound to that past, are able to learn and grow beyond its attitudes. In Mac's case specifically in very significant ways. The past has shaped Mac, and her 'earthy' views. The opportunity of the future and personal revelations and acceptances she gains from her adventure and new friends, allow her to grow so far beyond that. There are similar examples of young characters, when given the opportunities escaping the past that has shaped them, at least metaphorically, damn they still battle to get back to it. But get back to it for the better. This story isn't filled with nostalgia, it warns us against it. It doesn't dwell, it encourages moving forward.

All of this is realised with breathless adventure that moves the reader forward through the story. This is in no small part due to Cliff Chiang' superb art. It's at times naive and 'cartoony' capturing the innocence of the main characters. But it too doesn't dwell, he varies his style of expressing the characters and how they convey their feelings when the story needs it. His ability to capture the human moments that are so central to the story is faultless.

On top of that his design of times both future and past are quite brilliant. As is the colour design. Matt Wilson does a phenomenal job. The palette used is not like anything I've seen before. It somehow combines subdued pastels with screaming neon... I guess it's very 80s and yet in keeping with the nature of the comic feels incredibly modern and fresh. The night time / early morning scenes really emphasise the trick that's pulled off. The colours make the atmosphere seem dark and foreboding and yet its curiously light, nothing is obscured, everything feels visible and distinct. Oh how some filmmakers could learn from the way colour is used here to give the sense of darkness without actually washing away detail and clarity. Different time periods have different feelings. The prehistoric past feels light and subdued, without lacking any colour. The distant future is neon and glowing, unworldly. Yet the entire series seems to blend together with a distinct single use of colour. It really is one of the best colouring jobs I've seen.

(https://i.imgur.com/5FzJvul.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

Paper Girls is a complete story with a heck of a lot going on. It seems to pack as much into its  30 issues as many longer series would. It also manages an ending that really gives you a sense of everything that allows all the ideas it's jammed into to be encapsulated in a final issue. The final scene allows the reader to stamp their views on fate, nostalgia and hope and fear of being 12 years old. That Ending is both punch the air uplifting but also potentially heart breaking, well if you think that fate is cast in stone. If you don't maybe, just maybe those four girls can change not just their own lives but the world itself as they ride into the dawn of a new day. The paper girls ride off into the sunrise, not the sunset. Into a day that might, just might be filled with new possibilities.

Where to find it

Paper Girls is readily available  (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=paper+girls&rh=n%3A266239%2Cn%3A274105&dc&ds=v1%3AT4eWR0G%2B%2BrLJK9rwgCYpjGdgUN1q4h3Cqj6mIOYv46c&crid=1JAIIAPUZSW80&qid=1702368632&rnid=1642204031&sprefix=paper+girls%2Caps%2C62&ref=sr_nr_n_4) in a host of formats. The 6 original have a trade each, then there was 3 deluxe editions, finally a paperback all in one at a pretty good price. All available digitally.

The TV series didn't get a second series so the aftermarket is pretty healthy as folks snapped things up only to let things go at reasonable prices once this didn't become the next Stranger Thing and so I reckon you can pick up a decent price if you have some patience - some folks seem to still be trying to get the money they shelled out back!

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_Girls)

https://screenrant.com/paper-girls-vs-stranger-things-comparison-wrong/ (http://screen%20rant) makes short work of the Stranger Days comparisons.

Matt Draper (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2xyXML-Fog) has a brilliant video review of the series.

Another great review from SKTCHD (https://sktchd.com/review/paper-girls-vol-1-review/)

Frankly there's a lot out there discussing Paper Girls, most springing out when the telly show was coming up, but a decent amount before that too. I've just picked a smattering. If you do a search you'll unearth a load more I reckon.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

I'm not sure why I picked up the Paper Girl deluxe editions. I suspect I think I like Brian K Vaughan more than I do, whereas I in fact find him wildly inconsistent. Saga is frequently great but also frustrating. Y The Last Man sits in the space space as Preacher in my collection – probably going to head to eBay if I need more space. Ex Machina started well but by the end I was sick of it.

Paper Girls, though, I recall being intrigued by from a Humble Bundle, enough to grab the deluxes. And the entire thing was pretty great. Like you, Colin, I found the characters solid and the worldbuilding nicely done. Moreover, it had far fewer of the Brian K Vaughan traps regarding inclusion that tripped up Y (which has some horrifically toe-curling moments, even if you can see what he's trying to do).

I also don't get the Stranger Things references. Sure, kids and bikes, and the 1980s. But they're no more similar stories than Dredd is the same as Star Trek, because they're both science fiction stories set in the future.

Anyway, this one definitely needs a re-read in the not-too-distant.

In your opinion is Paper Girls age appropriate for an eleven year old? I realize that's quite a broad question.

It's been a while since I read it. My own youngling is coming up 10 and I'm not sure I'd be thrilled about her reading it. There's a fair amount of swearing, death and mature themes in the mix. I've seen it referred to elsewhere as 13+. Best bet would probably to read a bit yourself and decide that way. Which I know sounds like a cop out, but kids are all very different. (Mine reads relatively mature books and is way ahead with reading. But her telly habits are quite young for her age. Games were, but have now kind of 'caught up', with the Switch and Apple Arcade.)

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 18 January, 2024, 03:17:40 PMbut kids are all very different

True.

I'd say no for my kids. The girl child is 14 now so no problem with her reading it. The boy child is 12 and I'm not sure yet. While it deals with young folk as Indigo Prime says it has some quite mature themes. Its not say Lumberjanes.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 18 January, 2024, 09:26:12 AMY The Last Man sits in the space space as Preacher in my collection ...
... Moreover, it [Papergirls] had far fewer of the Brian K Vaughan traps regarding inclusion that tripped up Y (which has some horrifically toe-curling moments, even if you can see what he's trying to do).

Ohhh that's interesting. I think you'll have things to say in a post which is written already and will be appearing quite soon(ish).

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 110 - My Bad

Keywords: Satire, Mark Russell, Superhero, parody

Creators:
Writer - Mark Russell and Bryce Ingman
Art - Peter Krause
Colours - Kelly Fitzpatrick

Publisher: Ahoy Comics

No. issues: 10 to date
Date of Publication: 2022 to date

Last read: 2023 - this is ongoing

There are loads and loads of superhero parody comics out there and a number will appear on this list. Analogues of Batman, Superman and all the classic heroes are plentiful. Affectionate takes on the craziness of the silver and bronze ages ten a penny. So why does...

(https://i.imgur.com/PCdi9yi.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

...make the list?

Well at first the answer would appear obvious. Mark Russell is one of the few writers of modern comics that I go to by default. I see his name on almost any comic series and I add it to my pull list without further thought... I say almost any even he (and Dabnett) couldn't make me shell out for a Red Sonja comic from Dynamite... though I keep getting close. He's by far the best satirist I'm aware of in comics today. His comics are sharp, hilarious and always incredibly thoughtful and he will be appearing a number of times on this list for very good reason.

It's a surprise then for me to realise that, while Mark Russell is very much a part of the reason, my favourite bits of this series actually come from co-creator and otherwise seemingly unknown (in the world of comics) writer Bryce Ingman. Ingman is apparently a friend of Russell's from their school days. He created a back-up strip for one of Russell's other series 'Second Coming' which Russell realised worked well with another idea he was working up around a Batman analogue, The Chandelier, who we will return to. They flesh out the ideas and so was born 'My Bad'.

(https://i.imgur.com/BnobzLI.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

The series has so far appeared in two 5 issue mini-series and I'm pleased to say there is apparently more to come, but the two series work fine on their own. In the main these comics are made up of short stories, that feel like a collection of back-up strips from the bronze and silver age. These short stories are weaved together brilliantly to create a cohesive whole in each five issue mini. Across the two series we see a sharp superhero parody world build up. I'd say the sum is greater than the parts, but in this comic the individual parts are fantastic on their own.

As said though, probably my favourite parts are those written by Ingman. In particular Emperor King, The Chandalier's arch nemesis. Half Lex Luthor, a dash of Doctor Doom and a healthy dose of self aware daftness come together quite wonderfully to make one of the great, ridiculous villains for our times. In the second series, while good as the first is, the real standout is the second series, as the multitude of ideas seem to come together all the more strongly there. Emperor King has to deal with the retirement of The Chandelier, but more compellingly falls for the brilliant hero Good Karen and in a pathetic attempt to win her over adopts a superhero guise to try to impress her.

This simple idea captures the inherent inadequacies that absolutely underpinned the majority of what would really drive super villains. It contextualises that idea in contemporary ways that speak to this reader and the way modern society has twisted romantic liaisons. It plays that mundane, yet real and individually significant aspect of life so many of us have faced... not pretending to become a superhero to win over the affection of a superhero, I mean the way we attempt to find love and companionship, against the fundamental surreal landscape of superheroes. Oh and it's just plain funny.

In so many ways this encapsulates what Russell does at his best, and yet here it's Bryson that pulls it off to perfection. I get why these two get on so well!

(https://i.imgur.com/f9hN9nR.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

Oh and Emperor King has a villainous 'side-kick' called Acid Chimp. Now I'd love to pretend there's some deep seated social commentary to be found with this character. I'd like to pretend I enjoy them as they reflect some inner chimp within me or I see a cutting satire of modern society... But I have to be honest I love this character as they're a chimp that gets their kicks by throwing deadly acid around and that's just plain funny.

For all I'll wax lyrical about how great the social commentary is in this series, how much I like the cutting parody of superhero comics, I think I like it and place it on the list, because it's just plain good fun. It's hilarious both in how sharp and insightful it is, but also in the fact everyone seems to be having such daft fun with it all. Alongside Acid Chimp there's glorious ideas like Rush Hour the superhero dedicated solely to stopping traffic crime. Man Child a Hulk like character who is becalmed by a cave full of toys and collectibles, the aforementioned Good Karen a girl called Karen driven to heroic deeds by her peers mocking her for being a 'Karen' when in fact she's a good person, now forced to prove that not all Karen's are bad. We get assassins disguised as a Pizza delivery boy who apparently mistakenly kills innocent citizen's whose names just happen to be similar to those of superheroes.

We get an invasion of intelligent lizard aliens.

This is a series that knows how to have a good time. To pock affectionate (and sometimes cutting) fun at so many of the tropes of modern society and the comics the writers clearly love. I love this series in large part because it's simply very entertaining and funny.

(https://i.imgur.com/3MquDoU.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

While I've talked a lot about a host of things that impact on my enjoyment of this series I do have to acknowledge Mark Russell who is an absolute titan of modern comics... or should be. All his titles have a certain tone and feel. It's something I can't quite express in the same way I can't quite define and verbalise what it is about Wes Anderson or Coen Brothers films that are so distinct, immediately identifiable and bloody fantastic. That's not to say his tone is like those other creative giants, it's not, it's entirely unique, just to say I find it hard to define in a way I can express, I just get it instinctively. It amazes me even though his work has such a distinct flavour, that is frankly ever present, I never get bored of it. I sometimes feel I should, like I should reach peak Russell and then bottom out and not engage as much. I don't however, each time I start a new series by him I find it's the same, in many ways, and yet there are new things he explores, new ways he uses his great powers to show us all our responsibilities.

I'll be talking about Mark Russell a fair bit during this list so don't want to have to say the same thing time and again... well too much anyway. Here though it is worth looking at The Chandelier as I try to unpick what it is I like so much about his writing. The Chandelier, a Batman / Bruce Wayne analogue, is in many ways a real archetypal  Mark Russell character. Entirely unself aware, believing they are noble, or at least driven by the right motives, but oblivious to their faults and failings. Wrapped in self doubt, yet at the same time curiously confident in their abilities on a surface level. Thoughtless of the needs of others, yet with enough of a sprinkling of decency to give you just a bit of hope. A reflection of modern society then. It's this type of character that in part helps define the brilliance and dark humour that cuts through both My Bad and Mark Russell's work in general.

(https://i.imgur.com/9hIa5x7.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

The art in the series is largely by Peter Krause, who has already appeared on this list for his work on Irredeemable. He provides solid if not astonishing work. The art is good, not great. He captures the feel of silver age comics really well and has cheeky, neat designs for the most outlandish of heroes and villains. His character work and storytelling is likewise solid if not fantastic. Basically he's perfectly good. Which again may feel like damning with faint praise but there is no doubt there are many artists who couldn't have pulled this off with the success he does. So while the art isn't something that really pulls me to these comics it's certainly not something that is a detriment to the series.

What does work really well is the design and back matter in the series. There is a heck of a lot of care and attention taken to make everything that wraps the story up work really well. The cover of the first series has the glorious tagline "Valuable new I.P. inside!" which a fine example of how the final product is crafted really adds to the feel of the series as a whole. The design of the 'credits' page is great and they have cheeky 'The Story so far' summaries that I really like. For example from the fourth issue of the second volume:

"Customed heroes and villains were working together on a case that was basically solved last issue. So there's really nothing you need to know. Sorry to bother you."

This attention to detail across the presentation of the final comics is a real bonus. Mark Russell even adds fake ads of the type you'd see in old comics. The overall design makes for a really nice package.

(https://i.imgur.com/10YhpR3.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

So there we have it. Get on board with My Bad due to the top draw writer. Hang around due to the amazing co-writer and get excited for more to come as it's just so much damned fun!

... just handle with care...

 Where to find it

Two nice neat trades (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=my+bad&i=stripbooks&rh=n%3A266239%2Cn%3A274081&dc&ds=v1%3AqqGKdXKEtlaoE915drWALFkBBtsmVG%2BF%2BaFhY9r1zjw&crid=2PR3GLZ30Z84K&qid=1702396583&rnid=266239&sprefix=my+bad%2Caps%2C98&ref=sr_nr_n_7) collect all the issues to date. By the time this is posted I think the second one will be available, not out as I type this, but it'll be there by the time you read this. Available from the usual places both physically and digitally.

Aftermarket for this one might require some patience. These haven't set the sales charts alight so won't cost much but I imagine won't appear too often.

Learn more

No Obligatory Wikipedia page for this one... happening surprisingly often that!

And to be honest not a great deal out there for these comics BUT you can read the complete first issue (https://www.ign.com/articles/my-bad-first-issue-preview-ahoy-comics) to try it out.

How about Ahoy Comics homepage (https://comicsahoy.com/comics/my-bad) for the series. I mean there's not much there but I have to add something here!

Maybe some Good Reads reviews (https://www.goodreads.com/series/354324-my-bad)... yep I'm scratching around here. This comic really deserves more attention, and better star ratings it would seem!

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Before we carry on tomorrow with Number 109 another quick rundown of what's been on the list 119 - 110.

Run down of top 100 - 133 -120 (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1108701#msg1108701)

119 – Red Seas (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1108580#msg1108580)

118 - Johnny Red (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1108762#msg1108762)

117 - Hourman - Tom Peyer and Rags Morales (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1108963#msg1108963)

116 - Irredeemable (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1108984#msg1108984)

115 - Spider-man: Kraven's Last Hunt (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1109138#msg1109138)

114 -  Worlds of Aldebaran (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1109305#msg1109305)

113 - Cowboys and Insects (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1109422#msg1109422)

112 - Human Target - Peter Milligan (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1109556#msg1109556)

111 - Paper Girls (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1109685#msg1109685)

110 - My Bad (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1109929#msg1109929)

Not on the list - Lee / Kirby / Ditko Marvel Comics (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1109195#msg1109195)

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 24 January, 2024, 08:09:45 AM(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Before we carry on tomorrow with Number 109 another quick rundown of what's been on the list 119 - 110.

Really enjoying your write-ups Colin - almost too fast to keep up with! Keep 'em coming!

Nice mini summary to keep me right.

This must be keeping your grey matter on overtime to remember (in some depth)how each of these "runs" inspired you!

Excellent stuff I look forward to the next batch 👍🏻😁

Going back to the first ten or so, I've picked up a few volumes of these:

133 - Copperhead
130 - Orbital - got the first 3. Quick skim reveals lovely art.
129 - Nowhere Men - got the first volume.
126 - Avengers by Roger Stern and John Buscema (and Tom Palmer) - ordered the single Hachette volume with the raid
124 - Lazarus - found a few second hand

I'll look out for:
125 - Daredevil by Brian Michael Bendis and Alex Maleev
123 - Fatale
122 - Dan Dare by Garth Ennis

I've only read some Copperhead so far - first two volumes. It's really solid stuff, nice western sci-fi vibe, and I'm into the characters. Thanks for recommending!

Fatale made me revisit and finish Fade Out, which I'd only got halfway through first time. It's a great achievement, a work of art really, just a bit too grim for me. Not sure I'll be reading it again.

Quote from: Trooper McFad on 24 January, 2024, 09:50:32 AMNice mini summary to keep me right.

This must be keeping your grey matter on overtime to remember (in some depth)how each of these "runs" inspired you!

Excellent stuff I look forward to the next batch 👍🏻😁

Its weird its a really enjoyable process I have to say. Typically by the time I've started writing up my next one (I'm actually writing up #98 at the moment) and doing some research (I do wonder how reading around the comics to jog my memory distorts those memories!) my mind has typically moved onto what I'd like to say about the next couple or three in broad terms. In fact there a few later on seem to always be perculating, see you #95 which I feel I'm constantly writing and drafting since I started this!

Its a really good way to organise the 'thinking too much about comics' part of my noggin.

Quote from: Le Fink on 24 January, 2024, 11:29:17 AMGoing back to the first ten or so, I've picked up a few volumes of these:

133 - Copperhead
130 - Orbital - got the first 3. Quick skim reveals lovely art.
129 - Nowhere Men - got the first volume.
126 - Avengers by Roger Stern and John Buscema (and Tom Palmer) - ordered the single Hachette volume with the raid
124 - Lazarus - found a few second hand

I'll look out for:
125 - Daredevil by Brian Michael Bendis and Alex Maleev
123 - Fatale
122 - Dan Dare by Garth Ennis

I've only read some Copperhead so far - first two volumes. It's really solid stuff, nice western sci-fi vibe, and I'm into the characters. Thanks for recommending!

Fatale made me revisit and finish Fade Out, which I'd only got halfway through first time. It's a great achievement, a work of art really, just a bit too grim for me. Not sure I'll be reading it again.

And inputs like this make it all the more lovely to do. Jez Le Fink its amazing to see you pick up so much based on my clumsy nonsense. Really hope you enjoy them!

Oh which reminds me I've been meaning to say. The fact that I'm getting so much out of this means I'd really suggest doing so yourself.

I mean don't do anything as daft as me but I'd heartly recommend drafting your own top 10s, 20s whatever as a list, as its a fascinating thought process.

And remember if you do post um here to fire up even more discussion.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 109 - Six Gun Gorilla

Keywords: Stories about story, Cool Apes, space western, The Vort, 2000adesque (it turns out!)

Creators:
Writer - Si Spurrier
Art - Jeff Stokely
Colours - Andre May

Publisher: Boom! Studios

No. issues: 6
Date of Publication: 2013

Last read: 2016

Six Gun Gorilla is a character created for the UK's Wizard Magazine in the late 1930s and has since lapsed (is that the right word) to the public domain. For some reason they hit the public consciousness in 2013 when two stories using the character came out. The one by Si Spurrier is very good.

(https://i.imgur.com/6lZyomN.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

I should note from the get go this comic does deal with suicidal ideation and folks need to be aware of that before we go on. That said it handles these things really well from my perspective, but clearly other folks might have different reactions so be aware they do form a significant theme in the story.

For me though, let's be honest straight from the bat. I love westerns. I love apes and stories with apes. So I'm predisposed to love this. I mean come on a comic with that cover by Si Spurrier I don't really have to say any more do I? Well except I do as there is so much more to say about this wonderful comic series.

The story is set in a conflict in the Blister. An alien, alternative dimension, or is it a mindscape, we don't really know. Blue  3425 has volunteered for an army of troops who feel they have nothing to live for, convicts on death row, folks with terminal illness or people whose reasons to live seem to have left them. The offer is money for their families, or just an exciting death. Fame, of a sort is also on the cards as they receive an implant which captures what happens to them to be broadcast across the mass and social media of the future, as part of a horrible piece of reality TV. Their often short, always brutal lives in this war become a story for others to entertain themselves.

(https://i.imgur.com/jz35p7u.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

The war on The Blister is primitive and hard. The conflict between government forces and rebels trying to free themselves can't be fought with modern weaponry as in The Blister combustion and electricity don't work. So arrows and saw blades thrown from mechanical devices are used. Oh and they can be launched from the backs of giant armoured tortoises. The landscape feels like a western straight from Gwangi! The lack of 'traditional' modern weapons in a story by Si Spurrier reminds me of 'The Vort' from 2000ad and there are other parallels with that series as well. The Vort deals with how people tell the story of a war, the lies within that narrative. Story plays a BIG part in Six Gun Gorilla as well.

Blue 3425 was a librarian. So obsessed by the stories he classified and catalogued that he withdrew from the world around him and eventually from his family and lost his wife and children. Hence escaping to The Blister to become someone else's story. So while on one level this is a tale examining how war is exploited by the media as entertainment. How as a society we've moved past the horror of war to use it to fill hours of air time. How the reasons for war are often a narrative, a story for deeper darker motives... we're back to story again.

You can't escape story in this one. Yes it has that first level but really it's what's under that which makes this tale work so well. A story about story that underpins the whole thing. I love stories about story, even if often I don't think I unpick them as well as I might. They fascinate me and this is a key reason why I engage with Six Gun Gorilla so much. It's a great story on the surface and even more fascinating under that surface.

(https://i.imgur.com/tswTaNL.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Oh yeah and there's that giant gun toting gorilla, best not to lose sight of him! For all the highfalutin' ideas and themes this series has it never forgets the title character demands the sort of story he does. The tale is filled with all the intrigue its setting demands, all the cynical commentary the masters of the media companies draw out and all the high octane action our six gun gorilla conjures up in our imagination. As Blue 3425 desperately navigates The Blister we are introduced to a host of horrible and thrilling threats. Monsters and lifeforms filled with energy and excitement.

The Blister itself seems to react to the horrors committed on its 'surface' and not unlike Ararat in 2000ad's Bad Company it throws dramatic and thrilling dangers and trauma at the combatant savaging its landscape. All the thrills and spills suggest so much about the bigger story beneath the surface. But Si Spurrier never forgets that the surface story must be full of hi-jinx, excitement and dark humour. The story is about story, but the story is still king and this one is a blast.

(https://i.imgur.com/5zf48Q8.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

I say Si Spurrier never lets us lose sight of the excitement but Jeff Stokely's superb art plays a massive part in that as well. He provides perfect art for the story, it's a superb piece of work. His art is so dynamic and kinetic. It reminds me of Norm Breyfogle in that respect. The rendering style is pretty different but they both have an incredible ability to make all the action and movement so filled with energy. No one, or ape, simply jumps through the air. They fling themselves with force and momentum through the air. The way he captures emotions and reactions has an equal amount of melodrama. None of this sacrifices a sense of things feeling real. This doesn't look like some 90s Marvel comic, motion and emotion are all hyper-realised but work perfectly in feeling as real as the fantasy allows. It's this aspect of his work that screams Norm Breyfogle at me and there are few higher compliments I can pay. As we all know Norm Breyfogle is the best Batman artist there's been - discuss! And it's this almost unequalled sense of dramatic action and movement that allow the parallels to be drawn.

Stokely's work is more than that though. The way his inks feel scratchy and rough really capture the western vibes of The Blister and its inhabitants and visitors. There's an earthy quality that makes the western landscapes hot, dusty and hostile, they feel real and yet alien at the same time. Andre May's colours add to this as well. Rich off kilter reds and pinks, sticky yellows broken by murky blues and purples give the world a sense of other, of difference. They are almost sickly and uncomfortable at times. They always add to the dynamic punch of Stokely's art and combining the art as a whole is a really successful, uncomfortable and energetic delight. A spikey feast for the eyes.

(https://i.imgur.com/DzVhatz.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Having discussed the art we return to the Gorilla himself, as we always should. He does raise the question how in a world with no combustion does he fire his six shooters? Where has he come from? How does he appear like that out of nowhere - like a reverse Batman? He raises as many questions as he fires impossible bullets.

And the answer is of course the story. So I'll use a piece from the story to answer my own questions

(https://i.imgur.com/kbBYs8V.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

Freed into the public domain, Six Gun Gorilla is free to become what he needs to drive Spurrier and Stokely's story, to become what their particular story needs. He's now more than that though they are the embodiment of the freedom a public domain character grants to fill different needs in different story. The fact there was another tale about the character, one I've not read, but that doesn't matter, at the same time as this wonderfully underpins the theme of story in his role in this tale. He can fulfil the function in our adventure here, and at the same time fulfilling a different need in a story elsewhere. Indeed I believe there have been more stories featuring Six Gun Gorilla since 2013.

This pulls out further as we read a story about war and its horrors being used to give story to fill the lives of others. To be presented as entertainment. The lives of the characters on The Blister being reduced to the value they have in the media. We do this as we ourselves watch a character, a dehumanised character, entertain us. There purely to serve the story (and draw those side irons!) for our enjoyment. When we stop seeing the value in our own stories, beyond that we gain from reality tv and social media what do we leave of ourselves and how do we get back to value in ourselves and those we actually live with.

There are also smarter folks than me who will unpick more. It's a really rich topic, a story full of themes and ideas that mean I know each time I re-read it I'll get something a little different from it, see a little more. I'll view the story afresh.

(https://i.imgur.com/xXXycDB.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

When a story has this many levels told, through the lens of a Six Gun Gorilla you know its a story well worth telling and one that will give value in your life.

Where to find it

Nice straightforward one this. A Trade Paperback (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Six-Gun-Gorilla-Simon-Spurrier/dp/1608863905) collects all six issues in one nice neat package. This is available digitally as well.

The floppies don't seem too hard or too expensive to get hold in the aftermarket either.

So fill ya boots however you choose to get hold of this one.

Learn more

Another one without an Obligatory Wikipedia page. Am I getting too obscure here!

Bookforager (https://bookforager.wordpress.com/2019/04/01/six-gun-gorilla-by-simon-spurrier-jeff-stokely/) provides an excellent overview.

As does The Haunted Phonograph (https://www.hauntedphonograph.com/consequential/2013/six-gun-gorilla-by-simon-spurrier-and-jeff-stokely).

Good Reads (https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/18775094) has some nice takes as well.

That aside not a great deal out there about this one. I'm sure a search will pull up bits and pieces.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

Very cool topic, gotta love comics. And all the different takes, and well said on the contexts and different tastes and what everyone brings to entertainment they take in.

For example, two of my top three comics ever were mentioned and not favs in the topic. Savage Dragon and Invincible. My #1 is of course Wagner Dredd.

I dig what you said about 60s Spider-Man and FF, I did enjoy that issue 32/33 thing where he lifted the heavy thing.  :D

Great stuff, and reading your write-up just now Human Target by Milligan is on my list now for sure. And lots of others to check out.

Are you a Frank Miller fan, the classic stuff? That's stuff that I know is divisive that I rate high. Also, any manga on the list?

Quote from: PsychoGoatee on 26 January, 2024, 07:49:03 AMAre you a Frank Miller fan, the classic stuff? That's stuff that I know is divisive that I rate high. Also, any manga on the list?

Thank you for the kind words. I do worry about folks buying stuff based on my blathering but I guess directing folks to stuff I like is part the idea here and we're all adults and can decide what we want to try - just hope folks enjoy the stuff!

To answer the specifics - in vague terms. I've written up two Frank Miller stories already so they will be appearing soon AND possibly more interestingly he features a 'Not on the list' entry which will be posted next week GULP!

As for his DD run. I like it but it ... drum roll... won't be on the list, though it is planned for an entry down the road as to why. There's a lot of DD on the list, so there are runs I really think built on what Miller did but do it better (see Bendis DD entry). That's not to say I don't like it. I just think its dated a little and others have built on what he and Janson did as I say.

Oh sorry just to be clear there is a specific storyline that he did after his main run on DD that appears ... I mean that's not leaving much to doubt is it! I think that will be my highest Miller entry.

As for Manga, my Manga reading is very limited - its an area I keep meaning to investigate more as its a real blind spot for me - just too many great comics. That said there are a couple and one is very high on the list.

Writing my list brought this home and I've got a list of things I want to read - but this bloody list have made that quite long when I've reflected on the gaps in my reading so as and when really. I have just bought a complete run of Mai the Psychic Girl as I saw it going for a great price and loved it growing up. Probably far from the best example but its a start. I'm also likely to buy some Shigeru Mizuki's History of Japan soon as that's a series I've always wanted to investigate.

Very cool to hear! I've been meaning to read more myself, so many great comics for the read list. I can say I have not read 100 full distinct titles, I think, so I've gotta get reading to get my own top 100 going!

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 108 - Batman - Year One

Keywords: Classic; Origin Story; Frank Miller; Gritty

Creators:
Writer - Frank Miller
Art - David Mazzucchelli
Colours - Richmond Lewis
Publisher: DC Comics

No. issues: 4
Date of Publication: 1987

Last read: 2010

Frank Miller's Batman - Year One is Frank Miller's best* Batman story. But it is neither the best Batman story, nor Miller's best work.

(https://i.imgur.com/VrYVQiA.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

*When I say 'best' here I clearly mean my favourite. It's almost impossible to get an objective opinion as to which of this and that is literally BEST.

Tantalising foreshadowing of what's to come on this list aside it's almost impossible to make that statement, or indeed talk about Year One without referencing Dark Knight Returns, but I'm going to try and talk about DKR next post and focus solely on Year One here. I'm going to try to detach it from Miller's Daredevil, Mazzucehelli's later works, or indeed his Daredevil. I'm going to try to ignore its influence and the endless inferior 'Year Ones' that have followed it. I'm going to try to drill down to why I think Batman - Year One is just a bloody good comic story.

Just in case let's get some basics out of the way. Year One appeared in 1987 in issues 404 - 407 of the ongoing Batman comic and was used to redefine Batman and his world in the post Crisis on Infinite Earths DC Universe. To start a shallow relaunch of the character in a way that was nowhere near as dramatic as other character's relaunch and reimaginings after that series reset the DCU. It retells Batman's origin, in large part through his interactions with Jim Gordon and Gotham City Police Department.

(https://i.imgur.com/4z1KYPv.png)
Copyright - DC Comics

One of the biggest factors in Year One being so good is David Mazzuchelli's astonishing art. Mazzuchelli's trajectory is quite something. We saw him grow in front of our eyes in the pages of a Daredevil run with Denny O'Neill. This reached a very notable peak with the classic DD story Born Again when he showed he was as capable 'traditional' mainstream artist as anyone, before getting tired of all that and spinning off into other styles of both art and storytelling. It's this ability to capture 'real' superheroes crafted from Daredevil that he took to Year One.

His Batman looks real, tangible, he's a man in a cloth suit punching things with his human fists. He's not a God or an icon. He's a gymnast and as vulnerable as you or I, well if we were super fit brawlers anyway! His motion and combat feel entirely plausible. It's by far the best art I've seen for realistic superheroes, if not my favourite Batman art, which we'll get to later in my list. But 'realistic' Batman, yeah it's Mazzucelli everytime.

Of course it's not just his Batman that shines here. He portrays all the stories characters with real humanity and inhumanity as appropriate. His villains are crooked and untrustworthy, or solid and titanic. He populates Gotham City with folks you will see as you walk through any town centre. Their fear and joy palpable, how life has beaten them shows in the weight on their shoulders.  Even the most minor of characters look like the everyday folks we all see surviving a major city. This is exemplified in his portrayal of Jim Gordon, the character we spend as much time with as Bruce Wayne. He's tired, almost broken, but under that is a strength to fight on

It's also exemplified in the City that he creates for these characters to inhabit. His Gotham City is... and can I get to this without saying dark, dirty and rain drenched as I have so often already i earlier entries ...gulp... in its shadows you understand why Batman lurks. Litter blows through the air broken by cracking neon lights. Buildings need care and attention after years of neglect. It's run down like so many places we see in everyday life, or in 70s or 80s cinema. It's a city that needs its heroes to rise up and protect it, to give it hope.

(https://i.imgur.com/Xm6v5Db.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

The real magic Mazzuchelli pulls off though is while keeping everything so grounded he uses quite brilliant page design to make so many iconic images. The four covers to the series alone show that, such strong design and layout even if what is shown is relatively mundane for superhero comics, they standout as some of the best and most striking covers there has ever been. This ability to elevate the real to the iconic translates into this interior work as well. Page layouts and storytelling that is rarely matched mean that through the story there are moments, images that transcended the normal and risen to be those moments that grasp the comics consciousness and influence so much of what will come after. The art I've discussed already on this list in stories like Bendis' Daredevil, Gotham Central, Fatale all draw so much from these pages.

This is enhanced by an amazing colouring job by Richmond Lewis, who I learnt was (is) Mazzachelli's wife when reading up for this write up. That makes perfect sense as both line work and colour art come together in such perfect union. Each is elevated by the other. Lewis, who went on to be a painter after a brief stint in the comics industry, has coloured the series twice. Once for the original four colour comics and later using newly available techniques for better paper for various trades and other reprintings. The fact that neither is better, that both work with the resources available so well is testament to the talent of Lewis.

Each time I see images from one colouring job I think 'Yep that's the one they should stick with' and then flip the moment I see images from the other. One of the links below from Cartoonist Kayfabe really explores this as the Absolute edition presents both apparently. I could never justify having something like that just to explore the impact of the colouring... could I. I doubt there's a story that would make me so tempted!

(https://i.imgur.com/h4PQoRk.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

This masterful art needs a story to do it justice and Frank Miller doesn't miss a step in providing just that. It's often said that it's Jim Gordon's story as much as Batman's. For me it's neither as it's absolutely essentially and inescapably both's. The story of either character wouldn't work in isolation, the contrasts and connections in both their stories are what makes this work.

Both arrive in Gotham at the start of the Year and the contrast in those arrivals provides the perfect summation of the differences in the two men with a united mission. Both have the same motivation, to clean up Gotham City. They just choose to tackle that challenge in very different ways. Gordon will do it in a 'real' way, from the streets, in the real world restrictions of the police force. Bruce Wayne will tackle it from on high, with an almost impossible vantage point unimaginable to Gordon, or the reader.

Both are damaged by taking on the challenge. On the surface the harm of his commitment to the battle is more emotional for Gordon. He places his marriage, this family and so much of himself on the edge to stick to his task. Bruce Wayne's harm seems to come in a very physical way. Batman takes a real kicking in this comic as he learns his vigilante craft. He has never seemed quite so vulnerable. Not to the hyper-real shenanigans of costumed villains, but even to the switchblades of Gotham's downtrodden. The damage on his psyche is just as significant though. We learn more about Batman's psychological make-up in this story as we do in any other. His motives and reason for his frankly ridiculous methodology to clean up Gotham are examined to perfection here. This is as real as Batman gets and it's just to the comparison with Gordon that it works so well.

(https://i.imgur.com/kKTBzF4.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

Frank Miller uses a simple trick to get us as close as possible to these two lead characters. We get to see inside them by reading their personal journals. It's as efficient and effective as everything else in this tale. A simple short cut to mean that even though this story is less than 100 pages, in that tight lean package we get everything we need for a Batman story of this style.

It's not light on development of other characters as well. Just as I say that Mazzuchelli crafts a perfect cast, it's Miller that sets things up for him to be able to do this. As said about Mazzuchelli Miller makes villains sticky and sweaty, or brutal and hard. His work on Catwoman in a very short page count is as good as any I've seen. It's astonishing that both creators working in perfect harmony it would seem, at least in terms of their craft, achieve so much with so little.

As said this story was designed to reimagine Batman for the post Crisis world and it's entirely successful in doing that. It crafts a story that embraces the past of the character while ruthlessly shedding it to open up the new possibilities for others. The problem is few had the skill of these two to use that to maximum effect, though we will see a couple later in this list that do manage that. That's an impressive task in and of itself, but to do so while being an entirely satisfying story in its own right. By not being beholden to that daunting task at the sacrifice of the tale it tells is quite an astounding thing to pull off. By doing so they tell one of the single best mainstream comic book stories in just four issues.

That both these creators go on to use the craft they so perfect here, in such different ways in future works is a wonderfully apt outcome from this story. The way they both go on to tackle how to drive the American comics industry forward and do so with such different methods and impacts is the perfect take on the tale of the two men facing the same challenge in such different ways we get told here.

All that said if you never read another Batman comic either side of this it could well be said that you get all you would ever need in Batman Year One. Though it brilliantly tantalises the world it sets up.

(https://i.imgur.com/106ZlSM.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

Where to find it

I mean it's not going to be hard to do this. It's one of those comics that's been perpetually in print since its first publication.

The Absolute Edition (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Absolute-Batman-Year-One-HC/dp/1401243797/ref=asc_df_1401243797/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310961947917&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8952180822150519584&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007064&hvtargid=pla-435319596438&psc=1&mcid=e7dc0c66400f34b99f57469fc30366b9) mentioned above is still readily available - move away from it Taylor!

Cheaper editions (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Batman-Year-One-Deluxe-SC/dp/1401207529/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=batman+year+one&qid=1702897788&s=books&sr=1-1) are of course available.

To be honest the original floppies are still at reasonable(ish) prices for a comic so significant in the aftermarket as well if you fancy those.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_Year_One)

Matt Draper (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9WEGBhRL4w) does a typically brilliant overview of the story.

Cartoonist Kayfabe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdw2a4qwECw) take a pretty deep dive into the story and do a really good job of comparing the newsprint edition compared to the recoloured edition.

These a LOAD of stuff written and indeed recorded about this story. I've just pulled a couple I like out as to do otherwise would mean I was here all day listing interesting takes on the story. Just do a search and you'll not struggle to find plenty of insightful and not so insightful reflections.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

Great review of Year One, Colin. Thanks.

At last Colin one I've actually read 😂 loved the review- I'll have to do a reread for myself as I've not read it in years see if it holds up on a full read.

Another Olympian review Colin, and this time one I've read - thanks!

When I read it at the time I was a little disappointed with the art - quite gloomy and not flashy enough for younger me. Maybe too realistic, and too down to earth. I didn't appreciate at the time how the drawing was (seemingly) effortlessly telling the story. And what a story.

I think I would now probably prefer to read this one than Dark Knight Returns so I think they have swapped places in my affections. Or perhaps I've just read DKR too many times. Looking forward to your DKR review, on the list or not.

Quote from: Le Fink on 29 January, 2024, 07:37:12 PMLooking forward to your DKR review, on the list or not.

I'll not keep you waiting then...

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Not on the list - Dark Knight Returns

Of the 1986 Trinity of comics, Watchmen, Maus and Dark Knight Returns, Miller's DKR is the one that hasn't stood the test of time, it also doesn't make my list. For me this one is not even close to Batman Year One. which is a far better Frank Miller Batman story. How does

(https://i.imgur.com/YNM8DmY.jpg)

stand up in my mind's eye. It's important to say I don't think DKR is a bad comic, far from it. It's just to be honest I'm not convinced it holds up as a truly great comic either, though I know many, MANY disagree with that assessment.

Now fair to say I've not read it for sometime and fully expect to do so again at some point and who knows how that will change my reflections. Last time I did re-read it, maybe a little over 10 years ago now I enjoyed it nowhere near as much as I did Maus or Watchmen which I read at a similar time. Frankly it felt too nasty and mean spirited. Now that alone shouldn't impact on my enjoyment of a tale. I mean there are a lot of comics I really enjoy that could be described as such. Its misanthropic tone certainly didn't help though, but there are other issues as well.

I've mentioned in a number of my write ups to this point that certain comics have the ability to balance different aspects of their story, different tones, themes and ideas really well. It's something I feel DKR doesn't do that well. For me it has two key things it tries to balance and fails. It seems to be trying to make Batman feel realistic, grounded and open to analysis as a serious superhero portrayal. At the same time it's examining Batman as an icon, an almost God like figure needed to set straight a world collapsing into chaos. To pull society out of a downward spiral with clenched fists and gritted teeth alone.

The two ideas seem to jar against each other in my reading, far from being balanced and thus able to enhance each other by their contrast, the impact of each lessens the impact of the other. It works best as an examination of superheroes as God-like figures, or figureheads. Pillars of society to be impressed by, even if not admired. Icons of such strength, force of will and purpose as to be able to drag society back from the brink. Frank Miller's art, at least when inked by Klaus Janson - a point I will return to - really supports that.

This however sits against closer examination of Bruce Wayne as a man. As a real person we can understand getting back in the rubber suit to once again fight the good fight. That closer examination, all the words used to scaffold it, detract from the iconic aspect. The close examination pulls you too close to successfully see the scale of the icon. The iconic portrayal undermines the attempts to mine the potential for a closer examination. One done so much more successfully and succinctly in Batman Year One only a year or so later.

This unsuccessful balance is probably most obvious in the story's use of Superman. I really don't like it at all. Now fair to say Superman has a specific purpose in a story set outside continuity and so this shouldn't bother me and to one degree it doesn't. Take this alternative Superman and use him as you will make him work how the story needs him too. After all we still have all the Superman stories with Clark as the finest, most righteous of us all. So here he can have another function. And to be honest I'm not even too fussed about Supes anyway, he's not a character I'm overly fond of just because of those portrayals of the square jaws, cleaner than clean  'boy scout'. However for Superman to work in this story, as a contrast with Bruce / Batman, he kind of needs to be that. Yet for him to work successfully in his role in this story he also can't be that. He needs to be something Bruce can rally against, he needs to represent the government. It just doesn't work. He needs to be the iconic good guy, the God-like figure, the contrast to Batman. Yet he needs to also be the puppet of an extreme Government otherwise he doesn't fulfil the story's needs.

The needs of the story trump the work on the character. So it is with Batman. He needs to be the iconic demi-God, yet he needs to feel entirely vulnerable and human. He ends up just feeling like a nasty piece of work.

I've mentioned the art already and while it's good, it's far from great and not as successful as Frank Miller and Klaus Janson collaboration on their Daredevil run.  To my eye Klaus Janson is a better inker of Frank Miller than Frank Miller is. His inks contribute so much to making Batman iconic, monolithic as opposed to the more fragile and broken inks Miller uses. I'm not sure who does what on DKR but it seems to be acknowledged that Frank Miller increasingly played with the inks as the series went on. In some ways that works as it emphasises the broken and fragile state of mind that Bruce Wayne has, but for me it also detracts from the hyper-real elements of the story. This story isn't realistic. It's so much more, but the shift in the art almost undermines that.

All that said the art is pretty damned great. It's just not as good as it could be. There lies another issue I have, one I've raised before. I worry I judge this not so much on how good it is in and of itself, but how good I'm meant to find it based on outside expectations. I know that Miller / Janson art is astonishing as I've seen it, so when it doesn't meet that expectation quite as well this time I judge it far more harshly than I otherwise would taking the art on its own merits. DKR is regularly heralded as one of the all time greats and as it doesn't meet those expectations for me I judge it all the harsher than I would without those expectations. Again I'm not sure I do, but I worry that I might. After all this is a very good comic story, it's one I look forward to reading again, if for no other reason than to completely re-evaluate everything I've just said! I might retract all this on re-read, it might escalate the points I have made, who knows?

Either way my current reflections, this work is a very good, but flawed story that was significant back in the day - though not as much as all three of those hailed titles should be, they became figureheads for 'Comics growing up.' but were part of a larger change, not the change in and of itself. It had massive influence but how positive that was is open to discussion. Frank Miller's Batman Year One is a much more successful Batman story examining many of the same themes and is an absolute artistic triumph where DKR is not.

One final thing when considering DKR, look at that image at the top of the page. That's Batman leaping into the future, away from the reader, heading towards the lightning and thunder. Always has been, is now... right, right... Well by complete coincidence just before writing this I saw a video that explained that Frank Miller has been quite clear the Batman figure is leaping forward towards the reader, it's his crotch you're seeing, not his bum. Can't unsee that now and so to me he's neither jumping away, nor jumping towards, he's not doing either properly anymore... fitting huh!

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 30 January, 2024, 07:55:03 AMNot on the list - Dark Knight Returns

Yeah - it's not aged well. Or - I've aged away from it. I have a lot of fondness for what a lot of what DKR does (more in a minute), but ultimately it's presented the argument that a Strong Man is needed to lead us, brutally, into the future. He will use a violent youth army to achieve his goal. It's all a little bit fascistic at that point.

The stuff I still love is the "what if Batman retired?" angle. Having The Joker incapacitated until Bruce tumbles out of retirement is masterful. Providing an answer to the question of "how will the battle between these two opposing forces end" was brave. That idea - of Batman (and Spidey, and Supes et al) being eternally ageless - was something that Dredd (at the time) seemed to be an antidote for. So, a story in which Batman has aged was so fresh.

Of course, DK2 and on gives the lie to that sense of the story being finite. Our own experience with Dredd is that he's stupidly old now but *magic hands*, and then somehow Anderson manages to get younger all the time (or, as I have it, has had an off-page daughter).

I'm veering wildly off-topic now, but The Small House bugged me because it used meta-comic-logic as Smiley's rationale. When he's explaining why he felt that allowing (for example) The Apocalypse War to happen was okay, because the statistics showed they'd probably win the war - he says to Dredd "and we had you". But Dredd is as destructible as anyone - there are loads of moments where he survives by the skin of his teeth - including during the War. You wouldn't logically hedge your bets on a guy that tends to like to run into bullets, unless you knew he was the main bread-winner for a successful British sci-fi comic and therefore had plot-armor. Smiley doesn't just exist between the walls - he exists between the pages.

Anyway, yeah - DKR - it really isn't as good as Year One.

There is another magic in Dredd, which I don't see in Batman or the Marvel stuff I'm slowly ploughing through: it's not a revolving door. There are few recurring villains. You don't every few issues see Villain 7 from a selection of 20 wheeled out, or yet another scrap between superheroes. So even given the hand-wave getting older thing (which seems slightly absurd given that Dredd started having doubts in, what the 300s or 400s and actually quit in the 600s), I think Dredd holds up as an ongoing well compared to many other strips.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 30 January, 2024, 07:58:09 PMit's not a revolving door. There are few recurring villains.

This was one of things I remember causing a stir about Alan Grant's extended run across multiple Batman titles — he expanded the Rogue's Gallery enormously, because he just kept coming up with new villains.

I've really enjoyed reading the differing views about The Dark Knight Returns, I've read it a couple of times but not for about twenty years, but I'm considering doing so again soon, and then checking out the sequels. I gather they're not as good, and that Miller's views became even more right wing as the years pass, though I read an interview in The Guardian from 2018 recently where he talks about regretting having said certain things (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/apr/27/frank-miller-xerxes-cursed-sin-city-the-dark-knight-returns).

I also read for the first time Elektra: Assassin last year which I thought was superb, it's not without certain problems but I really found it to be gripping reading, and I've just started his Daredevil run. Again, it's not perfect, some of the writing is a little cliched, but I do really find it fascinating to see a far more adult take on the character, even if aspects of the story have dated.

I got my hands on a UK reprint of Year One back when I only owned a few comics. I read it over and over.

I think the reprint only had the first two parts of the story in it. Years later,I picked up the graphic novel and it was still great.
In fact your post made me want to read it again now but I don't know where I've left the book.


Dark Knight Returns didnt make much of an impression on me either. Maybe I would have enjoyed it more without the hype.

I always felt there was an extremely small Dredd influence on DKR, just on the "grim future city where gangs rule the streets and only one man dealing out instant justice can beat back the wave of crime" level. Which is much more just something going around pop culture at the time, but hey, they're both comics.

I read DKR when it first came out so I always wonder how much new readers (if it even has any) get the sense that it's meant to be taking place in the future, and not just a grim present day. There's been so many elseworlds and what if superhero stories since then that are set in the present but have had superheroes retire or change in the past that I assume these days DKR is seen in that light - the story is set now and Batman retired ten years ago, rather than Batman will retire in the near future and this is happening ten years beyond that.

Or I could stop worrying and just read Batman Year 100, which is more than decent in its own right.

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 30 January, 2024, 08:00:34 PM

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 30 January, 2024, 07:58:09 PMit's not a revolving door. There are few recurring villains.

This was one of things I remember causing a stir about Alan Grant's extended run across multiple Batman titles — he expanded the Rogue's Gallery enormously, because he just kept coming up with new villains.

Yeah this is definately true and something we might be getting to down the road here. Grant's Batman run certainly drews a lot form what he learnt from Dredd, while expanding that in different way. Also Norm Breyfogle greatest Batman artist ever (discuss!).

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 30 January, 2024, 08:23:21 PMI also read for the first time Elektra: Assassin last year which I thought was superb, it's not without certain problems but I really found it to be gripping reading, and I've just started his Daredevil run. Again, it's not perfect, some of the writing is a little cliched, but I do really find it fascinating to see a far more adult take on the character, even if aspects of the story have dated.

Things that we will be getting to and also relates to the point above. Miller does a great job of restoring what already existed in DD's universe to something that will define the series from that point on. There's a later run that we'll all have to be very patient for me to get to that takes that and does it better. Part of what makes that run better is the creative team expand upon what Miller did and introduce characters and villians in a way that's similar to Grant on Batman. Rather than restore the past that run, like Grant on Batman, builds it forward and one part of that is adding villians at a great rate, rather than going back to the well once again.

This is something it appears I really appreciate in my superhero comic runs and I do wonder if that stems from years of reading Dredd.

Quote from: Vector14 on 31 January, 2024, 12:09:17 AMDark Knight Returns didnt make much of an impression on me either. Maybe I would have enjoyed it more without the hype.

Yeah this is something I'm increasingly beginning to think about and maybe understand. My love of a comic is in part based on the expectation I have going in. Id its built as the best and I don't get that my institive reaction is is measure not against how much I enjoy it, rather how much I expect to enjoy it.

Great comics get past that as I enjoy them as much as I expect anyway, but others I judge with a harsher light. That's unfair but defo there I suspect.

Quote from: 13school on 31 January, 2024, 04:35:27 AMOr I could stop worrying and just read Batman Year 100, which is more than decent in its own right.

Which is agreat series, one I really must return to at some point. Its not on the list but Batman Year 100 is great.

I don't recall when I read DKR. I do remember thinking it was quite an impactful story and an interesting concept, although to that point I'd read relatively little Batman. Its slightly fascistic leanings didn't irk too much, primarily because it was set in a dystopia and I'd read a lot of Dredd, although I suspect in the modern-day context I might have issues with it. The sequel, though, I recall being bloody awful in every conceivable way.

I only read Year One relatively recently. I thought that was solid, to the point I ended up tracking down an Eaglemoss take so I had it in HC. That said, even then I didn't have much to compare it to, not really being big on DC. Since then, I did end up buying a big box of Eaglemoss partwork titles from someone locally. I've read most of them now and, well, I dunno. Maybe I'm just not a Batman kinda guy.

(I didn't find the books bad. But the basic premise rubs me up the wrong way, and the revolving door doesn't help. "Villain X has escaped for the 47th time, and now Batman must stop him from killing more than a handful of people!" So I've only kept a smallish number of books. Marvel has similar issues, natch, although I find that more broadly readable, albeit in a 'throwaway' fashion. With that, I had the first 60 of the partwork, sold the collection and re-bought just two.)

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 31 January, 2024, 09:15:31 AMI only read Year One relatively recently. I thought that was solid, to the point I ended up tracking down an Eaglemoss take so I had it in HC. That said, even then I didn't have much to compare it to, not really being big on DC. Since then, I did end up buying a big box of Eaglemoss partwork titles from someone locally. I've read most of them now and, well, I dunno. Maybe I'm just not a Batman kinda guy.

I dip in and out with Batman, preferring mostly the 70's and 80's take on the character when he was supposed to be the world's greatest detective, and as with any long running series there's a hell of a lot of rubbish out there. I did just finish the Grant Morrison run though and in general I enjoyed it a lot, there are parts I have major problems with, but I thought Damian was handled very effectively, especially when he teamed up with Dick Grayson. It also only briefly uses the Joker, and when it spins off in to Batman Incorporated I thought Morrison took it in a fascinating direction. Again, not everything was to my taste (some of the Professor Pyg aspects felt too horrible) but I'd highly recommend picking up the first volume Batman and Son to see if it's too your taste.

I had those in the Eaglemoss run. They looked great and I enjoyed them enough, but they didn't stick in my keepers pile. Looking at that, it currently comprises (bar Year One/Killing Joke*+Man Who Laughs/DKR) Doom that Came to Gotham, Court of Owls/City of Owls, and three or four books all written by Paul Dini. I've no idea if this is Batman sacrilege, akin to being very excited about Sonny Steelgrave Dredd.

* Which I'm half keeping because of its importance in comics. I can't say I like it at all.

I was nine when the first Tim Burton Batman film was released and became a big fan. At that time there was a great monthly DC reprint comic which featured the ongoing Grant/Breyfogle stuff alongside selected other stories - some earlier ones, strange obscurities and some classics like Year One. As such I'm still very very fond of the Grant / Breyfogle run but haven't read any of it for well over twenty years. More recently I also enjoyed the Morrison stuff. DKR I first read in my mid teens and found it a bit of a slog, to be honest, thought I did enjoy it. Some of that was down to the very deliberate slow pacing and Millar's tired, lumbering tank of a Batman, which was a big contrast to Breyfogle's fluid, shadow-flitting detective.

As I've suggested both the Grant Breyfogle and the GMozz run's will be featuring on my list.

One aspect of the GMozz run I'm particularly fond of is the way it dealt with the circle of a heroes tales when they are a long ongoing continuity. I've always read the Ouroboros stuff as saying, well yes all this happened but find which bit of the circling story that works for you and thats all you need to worry about. Otherwise your in a self devouring cycle of trying to fit it all in your head. Love what you love and don't sweat the rest.

My takes are often wrong!

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 31 January, 2024, 12:21:32 PMI had those in the Eaglemoss run. They looked great and I enjoyed them enough, but they didn't stick in my keepers pile. Looking at that, it currently comprises (bar Year One/Killing Joke*+Man Who Laughs/DKR) Doom that Came to Gotham, Court of Owls/City of Owls, and three or four books all written by Paul Dini. I've no idea if this is Batman sacrilege, akin to being very excited about Sonny Steelgrave Dredd.

* Which I'm half keeping because of its importance in comics. I can't say I like it at all.

Half of my Morrison collection are the Eaglemoss volumes and half of it are the trade paperbacks, and yes, the differences in size does annoy me a lot when I look at them on my bookshelf! I'm keeping them for the time being but if I ever needed to raise some cash quickly I think they'd be among the first to go, I did really enjoy it but I can't ever imagine rereading them now.

There's a good few Bat titles I'd like to read but out of my current collection the only ones I'd definitely keep are The Killing Joke, The Dark Knight Returns and Death In The Family, the latter's not a great read but it took place during my early teenage years and I still find myself amused that the fate of a character was decided by a telephone vote, and that it went in the direction that it did.

I think Death In The Family is in my to-read pile. I still have about 20 DC partworks from my big Batman box and also those cheapo Zavvi deals from years ago. Good enough to read, but it's surprising how few I care about keeping. (Mind you, that beats the Panini Marvels, all of which are heading elsewhere, bar perhaps MWOM if there's enough there I don't have in HC.)

Thanks for posting Colin! I read DKR in the collected format, not sure when - probably in my late teens, or very early 20s. It was my first graphic novel, away from the 2000AD Titan books. It was also my first DC and so Batman comic, and first experience of Frank Miller. I was absolutely blown away by it - I loved it. The little vox-pops panels were novel to me, and the take on various characters being interviewed in them amusingly snarky.

I found the stories really gripping and wasn't bothered by the politics. The art was sometimes a bit loose but all held together well enough, with several really great splashes. Yindel I thought was a good foil, good to see Batman having to battle the cops. Kelley/Robin a good addition, add child endangerment to the list indeed. I thought the take on Superman as a government stooge was inventive, and the Supes v Batman battle well done. The treatment for Harvey was great, the mutant leader suitably grotesque, Joker was ghastly, the final confrontation with Joker in the tunnel, surrounded by cops, all is lost - just really exciting stuff, well told. Bats generally gets through by the skin of his teeth - he's older, and vulnerable. He's rescued by his ward a couple of times.

Now, I haven't read it for over a decade, maybe two, so I need to give it another go. But for now I only have fond memories for it!

I've not read much Bats in general, so I'd be interested in people's choice picks. I am currently working my way through the Grant Morrison omnibuses. I found the first one a drag, I hope things improve. The art is flashy but often I can't make out what's meant to be going on. There is a lot of jumping around and then exposition to cover the jumps. I'm finding it a bit dull to be honest.

Oh yes I've got and read the Killing Joke. Art aside, I didn't particularly like it. Not one I'll be reading again soon.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 30 January, 2024, 07:58:09 PMThere is another magic in Dredd, which I don't see in Batman or the Marvel stuff I'm slowly ploughing through: it's not a revolving door. There are few recurring villains. You don't every few issues see Villain 7 from a selection of 20 wheeled out, or yet another scrap between superheroes. So even given the hand-wave getting older thing (which seems slightly absurd given that Dredd started having doubts in, what the 300s or 400s and actually quit in the 600s), I think Dredd holds up as an ongoing well compared to many other strips.

Dredd does a good job of keeping the threats fresh, yes. The ones that do get wheeled back around stand out, because of it. I rather liked Owen Krysler becoming The Mutant. On the one hand, resurrecting Mean Angel was a bit convenient (author's regret, there), but he really was too great a character to have killed off. It was good that he had a missing arm, and then they did eventually age him out.

I didn't like last year's The Hagger They Fall exactly because it suggests that all these interstellar villains have a long-term boner for Dredd - who's just some cop they met once. Like, "the thing from the pit" - a monster from a Texas City theme park, gives a shit that Dredd broke its arm decades ago? Mind you, I've not enjoyed the entire Red Queen arc because it relied too heavily on a recurring Orlok, and now it's knotting itself into Maitland continuity. Humbug!

I should stop ranting, now. Pretty sure I'm inventing a splinter-thread.

Carry on!

From one extreme to another today. From the super popular dark and gritty world of The Batman, which has drawn so much good chat, and now, well its Time for Something Completely Different that I don't think a lot of folks will have read, but more of us certainly should.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 107 - Squid Bits

Keywords: Funny, All Ages, Hilarious, LOL. Amusing

Creators:
Writer - Jess Bradley
Art - Jess Bradley
Colours - Jess Bradley

Publisher: The Phoenix Comic (I think)

No. issues: I've no idea to be honest - it's appeared in maybe 400 pages across the issues of The Phoenix

Date of Publication: 2014 to date

Last read: Still reading it.

Sometimes you love something just because it's funny. That's the case with

(https://i.imgur.com/zbMlojk.png)
Copyright - The Phoenix or Jess Bradley

I'm not sure there's much to say about this and I did consider just posting a load of images of the hilarious gags that appear in this brilliant series and that will say just about everything you need to know about this one. There are a few bits I want to say though.

Firstly this just about qualifies. That's on the basis that I've chosen to exclude single panel gag or editorial cartoons and Squid Bits contains a lot of those. It also has however a number of short sequential gags so it counts. Squid Bits is a series of one or two page jokes collections that appears pretty damned regularly in The Phoenix - The Weekly Story Comic by Jess Bradley. I have to be honest I'm not sure where ownership lies and whether Jess Bradley retains ownership or the comic does? Either way it must be a pretty healthy relationship as it has appeared most weeks for almost 10 years now. Initially as two pages a week. These days normally one.

Best way to give folks a clear understanding of Squid Bits is to just post a couple and so...

(https://i.imgur.com/Zed4lJo.jpg)
Copyright - The Phoenix or Jess Bradley

(https://i.imgur.com/XGTpw7z.jpg)
Copyright - The Phoenix or Jess Bradley

That's it really. That's all you need to know. If you found those as funny as I do then you know why it's on the list. If you don't, then aside from having a cold dead heart, we also know this isn't the series for you!

There are a number of recurring characters and ideas, Red Panda - Nature's Jerk, Art Shark, Horoscopes, Business Dog, Oh Banana, the 'doodles' on the page commenting - Jess Bradley has surely read some Jamie Hewlett - and so many more. But let's be clear they don't grow or develop. There's no insights or character driven stories that give self perspective. No, they just make you laugh.

A LOT.

(https://i.imgur.com/2gOnSds.png)
Copyright - The Phoenix or Jess Bradley

And you know what. That's enough in this case.

I do wonder if this is proxy for a host of Phoenix strips that I adore and this just happens to be my favourite of those. Doug Slugman P.I., The Lovely Pirates, Doggo are all just fantastic gag strips from The Phoenix and its very possible any of them could have had this slot, but one of them definitely needed to and Squid Bits has long been my favourite of these, so it gets the space. I think there might be a few entries like that. An entry deserving of the space in and of itself but also a standard bearer for other strips almost as good.

Tell you what since we're here I'll tell you why this makes the list as one of MY favourite comics. When I got the kids a subscription to The Phoenix we used to lie on the living room floor and read it together. I remember reading Squid Bits and thinking - gosh are the kids going to get this, is this a little too surreal for them. Of course they adored it. They got as much from its nonsense brilliance as I did, more possibly.

The Girl child was the first to move on from those shared readings. Now even the Boy Child reads the comic first and then passes it onto me. BUT we still discuss how good Squid Bits is over the tea sometimes and pick out particular favourites.

Then I'll ask the Boy Child to draw a birthday card or what not and while he'll not copy anything from the strip the surreal leftfield humour will shine through in what he produces. The glorious, carefree, magical comedy of these pieces has set a seed in his brain. I'm very happy to say I don't think that will ever quite ever leave him.

That's why Squid Bits is on this list, and damn it should be higher.

(https://i.imgur.com/IUjLbzL.png)
Copyright - The Phoenix or Jess Bradley

So that's it. A really short one this time. Please don't read that as a lack of passion for this comic series. Far from it, it's just that it's that good as it's simply that funny. Jess Bradley's art is superb, fresh and clean and carries the humour so well. She is a relentless joke engine crafting brilliant laugh after brilliant laugh week in week out with a seemingly endless source of good ideas, that is quite remarkable.

In this case though the work really does speak for itself!

(https://i.imgur.com/qVUGp0L.jpg)
Copyright - The Phoenix or Jess Bradley

Where to find it

Well most weeks in The Phoenix Weekly Story Comic (https://thephoenixcomic.co.uk/). It does take the odd break but this is there most of the time.

It's not been collected on its own yet but you will get samples in The Phoenix Colossal Comics Collection (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Phoenix-Colossal-Comics-Collection-Two/dp/1788450787/ref=sr_1_3?crid=39ONQFAN25WZK&keywords=phoenix+comic&qid=1702996332&s=books&sprefix=phoenix+comic%2Cstripbooks%2C88&sr=1-3). I think Volume 2 has most, one doesn't have much alas.

You can pick up back issues of the Phoenix really cheaply and easily in the aftermarket. Really worth it for Squid Bits and so much more!

I'm not aware that these are available digitally unfortunately.

Learn more

No Obligatory Wikipedia page for this one.

And frankly not very much else as well. Jess Bradley (https://www.jessbradley.com/) has a website and does Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/venkman_project/) if you do.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

Squid Bits RULES. My brother often sends me this from his kids copy of the Phoenix. Delighted and surprised to find it on this list.

His children love this and this kind of humour. Without wanting to do another '40 something bloke says how Regened should be', I always see this kind of stuff go over so well with children and I thought a page of little weird jokes like this would have been worth a punt.

Great choice Colin!

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 01 February, 2024, 03:38:18 PMSquid Bits RULES. My brother often sends me this from his kids copy of the Phoenix. Delighted and surprised to find it on this list.

His children love this and this kind of humour. Without wanting to do another '40 something bloke says how Regened should be', I always see this kind of stuff go over so well with children and I thought a page of little weird jokes like this would have been worth a punt.

Great choice Colin!

Cool Beans. I genuninely love this strip - another great example of real all ages. Funny, is funny regardless.

I also like the fact that I feel to it so naturally when doing my list. For all my pontificatin' and wordifyin' on other posts sometimes things are just great for the simplest of reasons and this is a case in point.

I'm pretty sure during the Jess Bradley draw-a-long, they said a Squid Bits collection of some kind was coming out this year. As for The Phoenix in general, it has a lot going for it. I'm slightly miffed the publisher didn't redo all of Bunny vs Monkey in the HC editions, because I would have bought them all and put them up with my Peanuts collections.

"You have 20 seconds to comply!" Is absolutely squeezed in for the parents sneaking a read of their kids Phoenix.

These are all so sweet!

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 01 February, 2024, 04:56:04 PMI'm pretty sure during the Jess Bradley draw-a-long, they said a Squid Bits collection of some kind was coming out this year. 

Oh that us good news. The boy child is going to a Jess Bradley masterclass later this month so hopefully something will be said then.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 106 - Bad Company

Keywords: War, Battle, Peter Milligan, Identity, 2000ad, formative

Creators:
Writer - Peter Milligan
Art - Brett Ewins, Jim McCarthy, Rufus Dayglo
Colours - It's all in lovely Black and White - well except when its not and then I think its by Brett Ewins and or Jim McCarthy.

Publisher: Rebellion

No. issues: Not sure by a very rough estimate about 24ish US comics would cover this
Date of Publication: 1986 - 2018

Last read: 2022

The observant amongst you will note I include Rufus Dayglo in the art bit. Yes I'm going to do it, I'm going to stand up for not only Kano, but the later stories as well. I felt I should warn you of that from the off as later

(https://i.imgur.com/OyymtEV.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion

can get a pretty hard time and I personally think it stands up really well, one exception aside which we'll get to.... Or just try to avoid talking about too much.

Being the second 2000ad entry on the list, a recap of what this one is about seems redundant, but who knows who's reading these (I wish!) So let's get some basics in. Bad Company started life as a Dredd World story written for the abandoned first go at a Judge Dredd comic by John Wagner, Alan Grant and Carlos Ezquerra. When the comic didn't launch the strip wasn't abandoned but handed over to Pete Milligan and co. They really stripped it right back and the final product became an examination of the horrors of war more explicitly, pulling in the idea of Wagner's Darkie's Mob in Battle.

The first story follows Danny Franks and a troop of raw recruits fighting a war against vicious aliens, the none too subtly named Krool on the planet Ararat. His unit is overrun and seems doomed, only to be saved by Bad Company and their leader Kano. Bad Company is a unit of renegade misfits, fighting a guerilla war against the Krool. The survivors of Danny's unit are allowed to join Bad Company but need to quickly adapt to their ways and prove their worth or they struggle to survive. Most are killed as we witness Danny and the few of his fellow recruits who survive become hardened and brutalised by what they have to do to survive. On the surface a pretty well rehearsed war is hell type tale. Under that surface it deals with that must Milligan of themes identity and the dehumanising impacts of extreme circumstances.

(https://i.imgur.com/cQ0UFRs.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion

The tale of Danny, Kano and Bad Company continues through six more stories, shattered through 2000ad's history, all of which take a different war story trope. Book II follows Book I pretty closely  and involves the assembly of a commando group created to launch a desperate mission into the very heart of the Krool world - literally as it happens. This story shares themes with the first, but also touches on spiritualism and philosophies. It also raises the fascinating (very spoilery - skip to the end of the paragraph if you plan to read this story) question of why Danny Franks is chosen to become the new Krool Heart, the centre of the hivemind that drives the Krool. My answer is it exposes the fact that since Danny is our POV character, and represents the everyman and the way war impacts on them, that any of us are capable of becoming the very thing we fight against, but later stories add fresh light on that which I will return to.

We then had to wait 5 years for the third, which focuses on Kano and indeed is simply called 'Kano' as he tries to come to terms with the end of his war and to settle down into civilian life. I'm going to come back to Kano later. The fourth, appeared 9 years after 'Kano'... well it's there and as it's a relatively short note in the series I'm largely going to skip over it.

There was a further 13 years between Bad Company '2002' and its return in 'First Casualties' and 'Terrorists' which followed shortly after. These two stories came out after the sad passing of Brett Ewins and saw Rufus Dayglo take over on art. They deal with the veteran soldiers, many of whom had died in the first story, long after the war had ended, being sidelined. They fight the powers that be in a world that doesn't need them anymore, to expose the truth behind the Ararat War.

It's clear Peter Milligan has never quite been done with Bad Company. Whenever he gets snaffled up by the American comics market as they recognise what an exceptional writer he is, something seems to draw him back to Bad Company. I think it's because by its very nature it's a really good vehicle for carrying a story about war and as alas war never leaves us as time goes on Peter Milligan gets more stories that he wishes to reflect on war in and so he returns to his classic. It's this flexible, robust nature that in part informs why I like almost all of Bad Company (let's skip 2002 shall we) so much, when many fans will look at Books I and II as the real quality and see later books as best ignored.

(https://i.imgur.com/sxaCsXj.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion

I'd like to unpick that a bit here as it's important as to why this story places on the list, as a whole, remember I'm trying to judge things in their entirety (however I define that entirety admittedly)  and I think all of Bad Company (yeah yeah 2002) is really good.  First Casualties and Terrorists, the most recent stories upset many fans as they overturned much of what we 'saw' in the first two, fan favourite books of the series. They certainly don't fit in with the established continuity. Characters like Thrax and Mad Tommy, seen killed in previous stories, return with no reference or explanation. Indeed Kano spends large parts of these stories with half his head blown away - a clear reference to the reveal at the end of the first story.

Now at first glance none of this makes any sense. Yet the reason behind it all is very front and central to the whole piece. It's in the title 'First Casualties', as the saying goes the first casualty of war is truth. The theme that runs through these two stories. Due to that through the whole of Bad Company, regardless of whether we've seen them die, exposes the truth behind the war with the Krool, and who the real 'bad guys' are. That single idea means you can play with this story, and indeed previous stories as you see fit. You can find your truth in the stories that work for you. You can see the latter books as not the truth, the victims of war and out of continuity works of fictional reportage. After all, Kano runs through most of them with half a head. Or you can view these stories as largely true, and the earlier ones the work of Boys Own fiction. This doesn't take those truly excellent stories away from us, even if they are stories and not 'what happened' we still have them, we can still love them and be enthralled by them.

The themes and ideas of these latter stories can, if you choose, change meaning in the first stories in other ways. For example I make a reading that casts fresh light on the end of Book II when Danny is chosen to become the Krool Heart. Given the revelations of Terrorists it's entirely possible that the Krool selected a human host to broker peace. Or similarly if the Krool Heart is a driver for war then the fact that it 'becomes' human says much about the origin of the war. These new stories cast new possibilities onto the old ones. They enhance them rather than detract from them. As well as being great stories in their own right.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZW8okKd.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion

Similarly Kano isn't universally well received, but I really like it. I really like it. For me it's on a par with the first two. It's certainly not as bombastic, there's a different pace, but then it's telling a different type of War story . This is The Deer Hunter to Book 1's Apocalypse Now. On a planet where people literally can't escape their past, for an hour everyday time runs backwards, Kano is trying to live a civilian life. As might be expected this does not go well. 

The story is quite clearly dealing with post traumatic stress but really takes the ideas we've seen in many stories across different media, that of veterans not being able to live a normal life, to 2000ad extremes. The mental anguish that Kano faces means that even aided by a planet, a good planet, that 'gives you what you need.' he is unable to sustain a family. When his new life starts to unpeel, the planet gives him Thrax, arguably the worst of Bad Company. You can't keep the now twice resurrected Thrax down! It's powerful stuff, different in pacing, but not tone to the two original stories. Adding to the idea that Bad Company isn't really about Kano and co, rather a vehicle to examine any aspect of war and that the characters need to be malleable to support this. Requiring the reader to be likewise flexible.

For me all the stories (2002 aside) really, really work well and build from each other and each subsequent tale add something to what's gone before.

(https://i.imgur.com/6LHwVAr.png)
Copyright - Rebellion

The art across the series is interesting. Brett Ewins and Jim McCarthy make an incredible pairing in the first two books. It's both so easy on the eye and so comfortable to read, yet effortlessly conveys the hyper-realised horrors of war the story demands. It looks both solid and grounded when it needs to, yet psychedelic (which is impressive in black and white!) and trippy at others. The imaginative character and creature design is quite brilliant and even the most surreal of events seem plausible. It's an astonishing piece of work.

Kano moves to colour and while it adopts the more stylised approach to Ewins art of much of the 90s work, it's no less effective. The use of colour is particularly effective. A phrase I've used before when discussing the colour work on Six Gun Gorilla applies just as well here. It's sickly and uncomfortable, yet in a way that while jarring actually enhances the storytelling and reading experience. Its palette isn't like anything I've really seen before or since.

The work by Rufus Dayglo in the latter two stories returns to black and white which is a shame for two reasons. Firstly I think Dayglo's art work is much better when coloured, his colour work really pops. For me this would have also enhanced the differences between these stories and the first. Flagging my reading (which of course may not be the intended reading!) that the original are a black and white telling of a tale, the later one's a more 'complete' truth, all be it if Dayglo had provided his colours, one with eye popping hyper-reality built in. Anyway it's not so I shouldn't have got distracted there! It's in black and white and is entirely effective, if not on a par with the astonishing work of the first books.

One of the key strengths of Bad Company, certainly the earliest is they provide arguably the best early example of 2000ad growing up and shifting its focus to an older teen audience. Halo Jones clearly does this, but is such an outlier in the comic, in character and themes. Bad Company does a very smart thing, it tells a story that is so 2000ad in tone and presentation, an all action war story, but layers things under its surface, and indeed in moments in the art, to subvert that 'traditional' all action idea into something with much deeper meaning. It's fair to say that many 2000ad stories were doing this, Wagner and Grant's Dredd had been for years, but Bad Company feels like the first story specifically designed to do this.

I was 14 when it started, had been back onboard with the Prog for a year or so and suddenly this story appeared that took all those strips I'd loved in comics as a kid and turned them into a pop art explosion of things I knew I wasn't quite getting, right in front of me. It gave me a story I recognised from my previous formative reading, one I could lap up on a visceral level, but one that I knew was doing more. That I didn't quite get to what that 'more' was didn't matter to me. It sparked something. This thing needed re-reading, this thing made me try to understand and think about what meaning was there. I talked about it to my brother and the few friends still reading comics in a way that was different.

Where Halo Jones (I'd only read Book 3 at this point) left me a little agog and intimidated by what it was doing with my comic. Bad Company invited me in, soothed by nerves by being so brutally familiar, but challenged me to be a better (comic) reader as well.

That the series went on to stretch and tell other stories, to be a robust vehicle for the examination of war as time has gone on, has only served to make it go up even further in my estimations.

(https://i.imgur.com/VFQFyy1.jpg)
Copyright - Rebellion

Where to find it

To my surprise this isn't as available as I thought it would be. Everything has been released (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=bad+company+milligan&rh=n%3A274081&ref=nb_sb_noss) but some seem out of print and going for silly money in certain areas of the aftermarket.

You can pick up the Progs these stories appeared in pretty easily I'd imagine. For the issue number there's a couple of links below that will sort you out.

You can get the digital collections from Rebellion easily enough. The Complete Bad Company (https://shop.2000ad.com/catalogue/GRN394) is available for a lovely tenner and collects all the stories before First Casulties.


Learn more

As I've said before, for all things 2000ad our own Funt Solo's 2000ad in Stages (https://2kstages.github.io/AtoZ/BadCompany/data.html) is a must see source...

As is  is your first go to port of call.

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Company_(comics)]Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://www.2000ad.org/?zone=thrill&page=profiles&choice=BADCOMP)

Beyond that though I'm a little surprised to discover there's not a great deal more out there. Maybe I missed things but I thought they'd be plenty of critical evaluation of this well regarded series?

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

The first two books of Bad Company was awesome but as time progressed the follow-ups quality deteriorated with each new book. The last Bad Company Terrorists was maybe a bridge too far and the series should have already been at the sunset and not waiting to ride towards it.

I remember liking Kano a lot at the time. It was creepy and intriguing. As for you excising the 2002 series from the above, my brain appears to have done the same more generally. I don't remember anything about it at all.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 05 February, 2024, 09:04:45 AMAs for you excising the 2002 series from the above, my brain appears to have done the same more generally. I don't remember anything about it at all.

Its best that way!

Quote from: broodblik on 05 February, 2024, 08:05:40 AMThe first two books of Bad Company was awesome but as time progressed the follow-ups quality deteriorated with each new book. The last Bad Company Terrorists was maybe a bridge too far and the series should have already been at the sunset and not waiting to ride towards it.

I do think that's the commonly held view of things.

Nice write-up as always Colin.

I didn't see the Kano story at the time but read it in collected form years later. I still really like it - such a strange, dream-like atmosphere with this sense of trauma and existential dread underlying everything. Of course it's very different to the early stories but I enjoy it just as much. The most recent couple of series really did lose me, however - I should probably read them all in one sitting sometime as the plot felt so scattergun week by week in the prog.

Another good mini-article Colin and a spirited defence of latter Bad Company!

For my money Bad Company, like Star Wars, started off with a perfect couple of installments and then gradually messed itself up to its own detriment.

I'll chime in for the defence of more contemporary Bad Company, its good stuff all around!
I've never read the '02 run so likely one to miss out on, eh? Pity the phonebook is out of print, one I never got around to and one I hope to see get a reprint.

Another nice write up Colin!

Excellent write up as usual Colin.

I picked up a Joblot of random issues of Best of 2000ad Monthly from Ebay in December last year partly because it contained Bad Company (issues 77 & 78 contain book 1, 101 & 102 book 2 if anyone is looking).  It's been at least 25 years since I last read it.  I remember enjoying the first two books a lot when I read them as a youngster, so am interested to see how it goes when it gets to the top of the pile.  Lots to think about after reading your review.

I read Kano in the original progs, remember liking it as well even though it was different to the original books. 

Given my username it's not going to come as a surprise that I thoroughly enjoyed your write up of the series Colin, it was packed with a lot of fascinating insight and reminded me of why I love it so. I don't actually only any physical copies of it any more which frustrates me an enormous amount, but I've got the Amazon page bookmarked and I think if I haven't stumbled upon it in a charity shop or cheaply on Ebay by the end of the year I'm going to bite the bullet and pay £80 odd quid for the phone book edition.

80 quid seems terrifying for that book. I'm slightly surprised it's not been reprinted. FWIW, someone's offloading the two Hachette books for a total of 40 quid and postage on eBay, which nets you the same stories. (Still overpriced, mind.)

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 06 February, 2024, 03:53:10 PM80 quid seems terrifying for that book. I'm slightly surprised it's not been reprinted. FWIW, someone's offloading the two Hachette books for a total of 40 quid and postage on eBay, which nets you the same stories. (Still overpriced, mind.)

It is a lot, and there's not many series I'd even consider spending that much on, but I'd really love to own it. Thanks for the heads up about the Hatchette books as well, I've got a lot of outgoings coming up over the next few months (myself and many of my friends are all turning 50 this year which is going to be quite expensive!) but I am tempted.

Am I right in thinking the final Bad Company story hasn't been collected anywhere? Is it in the Hatchette series?

Not at this point. The Hachette series basically carved the phone book in half and gave it to us in two separate HCs.

Be nice if we can get a lot of those early phonebooks reissued, I appreciate there isn't the demand for deluxe, rescanned and retouched editions of Bad Company, Ace Trucking, or Meltdown Man (among others) that there may be for Stronty or Nemesis so those big phonebooks where kind of perfect for what they needed to do.

Indeed. Although I imagine there are some tough calculations going on at Rebellion HQ regarding various books that should be evergreen and those that get reprints, because the last thing they want (especially with rapidly rising costs) is to end up sitting on a thousand copies of Meltdown Man or similar.

Yeah it must be tricky for Rebellion to try to balance the titles and stories in it oh so deep back catelogue that justify being perpetually available. The team are all fans as well as office folks and so the struggle to see through the fan reaction to 'This is a classic and needs to be on the shelves' with what is actually commercially viable, would horrible for me!

Brace yourself Indigo Prime, I think you might want words with me for this one!

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 105 - Y the Last Man

Keywords: Post apocalyptic, Brian K Vaughan, Makes you cry, gender

Creators:
Writer - Brian K Vaughan 
Art - Pia Guerra and Jose Marzan Jr.
Colours - Zylonol and others

Publisher: DC Comics under Vertigo imprint

No. issues: 60
Date of Publication: 2002 - 2008

Last read: 2017

Second Brian K Vaughn entry, this time teamed up with Pia Guerra to being us the tale of

(https://i.imgur.com/1K7EMm4.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

The high concept of the series is one that's been played with a lot in stories over the years. In an instant 50% of the mammalian population dies, not just humans, but all mammals. The 50% (or thereabouts) all have Y chromosomes, those that are biologically of the male sex (as opposed to gender which is the wider social construct that is a lot more varied). There are two known exceptions both living in the same flat in a major US city (I want to say New York but I honestly don't remember and it doesn't matter!). Yorick is an amateur escape artist and magician in his early twenties. Ampersand is his pet 'helper' monkey. Why they survive is a major clue (in my mind) to the origins of the 'plague' that kills the male 'sex' which we will return to.

The series then follows these two as the world and society rebuilds without anyone from the male sex. The appearance of Yorick of course has a serious impact on that process. Oh and his mum just happens to become President of the United States as a result of the disaster. So there's that as well!

(https://i.imgur.com/Xhcuvwd.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Before I go any further I want to discuss points of debate or controversy that surround this series and explain from the start why they weren't barriers to me, but why some may disagree. And I will note I'm happy to be educated if it will help my interpretation of these issues.

Firstly the panels above make clear that the series tackles gender as opposed to biological sex. I remembered this panel from my first read. Firstly as it uses some horrible language, this is based on character, I'm not claiming the use of the term inappropriately is okay. Brian K Vaughn has form here. In Paper Girls (111 on this list) he used inappropriate language BUT appropriate within character, i.e. the character would say it even though it's not okay. I'm fine with that, in fact I applaud  it, though with the caveat I would hope in that context it doesn't put folks off reading it. As I recall there are other references to the idea that being the last 'man' on earth is a clumsy use of the term, though I can't remember specific examples. This series is almost 20 years old as well and the honest truth is even that relatively short time ago we weren't as educated or conscious of the dismissal of the trans community. So while the reflections on this topic may not be as developed as they would likely be these days, the fact they are acknowledged was relatively progressive for the time. So for me, a cis male this gets a pass. The fact that I'm a cis male means that is the least important pass it can get, but the only one I can give.

Secondly there are arguments that the sudden death of all mammals of male sex wouldn't be a disaster and I find that just daft. There is absolutely no way any 50% of the mammalian population suddenly dying wouldn't be a devastating event for society from any perspective, emotional and psychological, infrastructure and economics and instantaneous calamity. The fact that the 50% of the human population would all be involved in activity, driving, flying, maintaining infrastructure etc  would mean that the immediate impact would be massive. There would be numerous accidents and other disastrous situations that would lead to further, significant loss of life.

(https://i.imgur.com/tO7loAX.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

The fact that it's all mammals of male sex would exaggerate that for all the wrong reasons. We do live in a society that gives massive advantage and therefore power and influence to males, this would mean that immediate damage to society and its structures would be greater. The impairment on the first stages of rebuilding would disproportionately increase. That's not right, but it is a fact of the patriarchal world we live in. Add to that the emotional trauma and impact on those that survive hindering their ability to start that reconstruction and of course the event would be massive and devastate the structures we all come to depend upon.

So really I'm not sure about this argument, that it's insulting to say the death of all male sex mammals, would be so disastrous holds any water at all. It's utterly ridiculous in fact. This is also something the comic deals with in very interesting ways. If anything it supports the idea that the male bias in our cultures is a rubbish thing in the first place, we can't deny however it's still a very significant thing.

Let's move on from those 'controversies'. They don't impact on my reading of the story, though as I have said this is as a cis male so I do need to listen to the counter arguments and certainly acknowledge them even if I don't agree.

The comic and the world it builds, or we see rebuilding tells a fascinating tale on many levels. There are a number of key focuses the series uses. Firstly, rebuilding. The way an almost exclusively female society will approach not on the events but building back, the different pressures and drivers this would put in place. If the 'male' world has failed so dramatically and let's be honest in so many ways is failing without any horrific catastrophe would it make sense to build back based on what's been done before? As humans we have an incredible ability to defend the status quo, change is hard so many just try to do that, return to what there was before. Other groups reject that option and see the change to build a different, reimagined society. 

Greed, power struggles so familiar today don't simply get wiped out and this is used to great effect in Y the Last Man. Pressures and tensions inherent in rebuilding a shattered world order make for natural drama and conflict. Add to that our POV character is the one surviving human of male sex and questions and opportunity they bring further escalated this. Over its 60 issues there's a lot of excitement and adventure to add to the other questions raised. It's thrilling stuff.

(https://i.imgur.com/sxzwptG.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

A second focus and this is another way having Yorick as our led is very important, it is a primary concern in rebuilding to sustain the human race, and indeed other mammalian species. The lack of members of the male sex and all Y chromosomes, so sperm in storage has been wiped out as well, mean that the existence of the human race is on a clock. Ways of reproducing, however that can be done are an immediate priority and this provides another key strand of the story. And links to the next.

As well as looking forward the series asks the question what was behind the plague, why did 50% of the population suddenly die? Is understanding that part of the route to restoring a new world? How did Yorick survive and that is surely key to understanding this puzzle. Brian K Vaughn is smart enough to not provide a clear answer to this. Different groups and fractions all find an explanation which means their needs and drivers.

A key theory is held by a group called the Amazons - based in the ancient culture to the extend they too cut off one of their beasts to make firing a bow easier, that believe the discovery of cloning - as detailed in the very first issue, has done away with the need for those of male sex. They believe that this breakthrough, made by a person of female sex, has allowed 'mother nature' to strip away her greatest error and most terrible creation, those of male sex.

There are other spiritual answers, each religion comes up with a theory that adheres - at least to their reading - to the dogma of their religion. For example some christians believe what was seen was the rapture and males ascended to heaven. Those without Y chromosomes were left on earth as punishment for original sin.

(https://i.imgur.com/1Ww6ksT.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Other more mythical reasons are alluded to. In the very first issue Agent 355, a secret service type working for the American government and a central character throughout the series, seeks out an ancient amulet for reasons that are never fully made clear (or that I recall at least). It is suggested this amulet may provide a magical explanation for the mass death event. The explanations are manyfold and the reader is invited to find the one that makes the story work for them. Brian K Vaughan understands that the reader will bring their own needs and understanding to any story so he very smartly allows them room to build their reading of events from what he shows.

SPOILERS ABOUT TO START - the next chunk will be pretty spoiler heavy. So please skip the next few paragraphs if you plan to read the series and don't want to be spoiled. I will keep things vague but will detail:

The reasons given for Yorick surviving and my theory based on that.
An emotionally powerful moment from the end of the series - which explains why I love this series as much as I do BUT does give away some key bits... and might make you cry! though this will be after a spoiler free break!

I will clearly mark when it's okay to read again if you wish to avoid all this.

There is the idea that some sort of chemical attack, biological weapon or other scientific explanation is behind the plague. I bring a scientific background to this series and I'm an atheist so he's where I land. It's what I bring with me. There are clear clues though. Yorick is believed to be immune to the plague due to the fact that he owns Ampersand and its Ampersand (his monkey if you remember) who has developed the actual immunity. Yorick survives as he picks up immunity from dealing so closely with Ampersand, cleaning up the poo that he flings around and the like. So this strongly suggests that indeed there is a biological element to this.

Now it's not a plague or virus like Covid as the horror strikes in an instant. Everyone dies immediately. So it's not 'natural' there has to be some trigger, some human developed elements that allows the mass death to happen in a single moment... that seems far-fetched and points to a more mythical element... so even though I have an answer and it's clear and in the text, the specific still leaves me with questions and I love that!

SPOILERS ENDED for now

(https://i.imgur.com/2JpHfFr.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...
 
For all the ideas and concepts you get to play with while reading Y the Last Man, for the action and adventure as with all of Brian K Vaughan's work it's really character driven. It seems criminal that in a series dominated, for obvious reasons by female characters I've talked most about Yorick, who is an interesting lead, he is a nice down to earth chap, annoys lots of folks, but isn't anything exceptional, which makes him an exceptional POV character I have to say. Damn even when aware that he's the last human of male sex he still thinks tracking down his love Beth is the most important thing!

BUT Vaughan and Guerra draw on a cast of others who really make this comic work. The aforementioned Agent 355 is a violent, grounded delight. Beth, Yorick's lost love - she starts the story on a trip in Australia (see above). Hero Brown Torick's sister with whom he has a very... complex... relationship as she is an Amazon and many, many more. It's full of characters you love and love to hate. The series is rich with characters that drive the intricate plot and events forward.

This is helped by Pia Guerra and Jose Marzan Jr's art (a few fill-ins aside) throughout the series. Now I'm not going to say that their art is a major factor in why I like this comic so much. It's not, it's competent and solid, not astonishing. What it does really well is capture characters and their interactions. Everyone is distinct and easy to read. The storytelling flows perfectly and it's the type of art that 'keeps out the way' that allows the story to rule and I really appreciate that.

This write-up is becoming longer than I planned (that often happens when I come to a series I'm not sure I have much to say about, as I dig in and research I remember so much that needs to be said and things run out of hand!) BUT there is one very significant thing I must say before calling time. And I'm about to turn spoilers back on!

Before I read a single issue of this series in some countdown of the best comic moments or other (possibly over at Comic should be good?) I read a three page scene from the end of the series without context, without knowledge of the characters in the scene and it made me weep like a baby. I found it so powerful. Having read that I immediately determined to track the whole thing down and when I read it, the power of that scene formed an already positive view. Those three pages meant I went into this one already predetermined to love it and while nothing else quite matched this, it didn't disappoint.

I'm going to present those three pages here, as I read them. If you want to avoid spoilers - though it's quite a self contained scene, but does give away key parts of the ending. I'd say read them however, I did and it didn't impact on my enjoyment when I read it all, but only fair to warn folks. If you do want to know why this makes this list and there are a lot of reasons, it is a compelling high concept thrilling adventure. It's full of ideas that make you think. Its plot twists and turns and is utterly compelling. It's driven by its wonderful rich cast of characters.

But the real reason is held in the three pages I present below. If you want to be spoiler free skip to the end of those... but I say read them, just have some tissues handy!

(https://i.imgur.com/EmgEN99.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/UpnqX21.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/APJA4R9.png)

Where to find it

This one is easily found in various editions (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=y+the+last+man&rh=n%3A266239%2Cn%3A274081&dc&ds=v1%3A6KbB2YB60gCno8JLpxHFpkl90bquGDseS0d63h%2B0Db0&crid=30OL4M30D5UXQ&qid=1704026945&rnid=1642204031&sprefix=y+the+last+man%2Caps%2C72&ref=sr_nr_n_3).

I have the five hardcover deluxe editions (I may have bought them from someone here, sorry if so as i don't remember???) and they are great. They are available in softcover at a lower price as well. There are now three absolute volumes that are meant to be really nice too. Or an Omnibus.

All of these are available digitally easily enough from the normal places.

I suspect the original floppies won't be too hard to track down either with a little patience. Fill ya boots however you like basically. 

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y:_The_Last_Man)

Queer Comics Database (https://queercomicsdatabase.com/series/y-the-last-man/) does carry a warning about regressive treatment of transgender issues.

Near Mint Conditions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSkNXj23TWk&t=71s) has a nice overview of the different formats available. And a nice three way discussion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDYyX_iFkBQ) that has one mega fan and two readers new to the series and it provides an interesting contrast.

The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/dec/21/y-the-last-man-by-brian-k-vaughan-and-pia-guerra-a-dystopia-built-by-women) has a nice review.

This one isn't hard to find out about. Do a search - just remember to add 'comic' to 'Y the last man' as there was a short lived, not well received telly series which can dominate returns. Anyway there is way to much to list here but plenty of insight to be found.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 08 February, 2024, 07:44:32 AMthe struggle to see through the fan reaction to 'This is a classic and needs to be on the shelves' with what is actually commercially viable, would horrible for me!

One might surmise that all the noisy shouting for HC Case Files, for example, didn't exactly translate to sales, given that we only got one of the things. (Similarly, while I often see calls from the US that they'd buy Dredd or other 2000 AD titles in omnibus format, I suspect that would be maybe a few dozen copies sold and an awful lot of books sitting in warehouses.)

As for Y... I've read this one a few times. I have it in the same deluxe format as you. And I put it kind of on that tipping point Preacher sits on, although slightly closer to 'keep'. There are a lot of great moments in the series, but during my last re-read, I felt it hadn't aged terribly well, or I'd moved on from when I first read it. The book as a whole felt weirdly sexist quite often, for a title based on an almost exclusively female world. There were quite a few moments that felt quite cringeworthy.

I could never quite get the world building to work either. The disaster aspect made sense. But the rebuild felt too swift. I mean, the instantaneous removal of 'males' means an instantaneous collapse of the food chain. It's not just a case if "we can't eat beef now and should all go vegan". There'd be no pollinators. In fact, no insects at all. Cloning isn't going to cut it. It probably helps if you don't think about it too hard.

Broadly, though, I do recall liking the series – I mean, I must have given that I replaced my paperbacks with the deluxe editions. And while I know people disliked the ending, I thought that at least worked very well. That's more than I can say for quite a few things I've read of late. (I'm looking at you, Gideon Falls...)

I enjoyed Y when I read it but for some reason I will never see it as a true classic. I think my mine problem was that later on it felt like it is just continuing for the sake of it (reminds me of ABC Warriors going on and on and going nowhere)

Mm. There was a sense of that. You quite often see series where they say they're doing X issues and so they damn well do them. I fear Saga might be heading the same way. It's quite refreshing when creators don't do that. Mignola wrapping up Hellboy when he was done, for example.

True about Saga it might be they are aiming for some 100 plus episodes

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 08 February, 2024, 09:42:55 AM(Similarly, while I often see calls from the US that they'd buy Dredd or other 2000 AD titles in omnibus format, I suspect that would be maybe a few dozen copies sold and an awful lot of books sitting in warehouses.)

I think there's gotta be at least 100s of us US fans. :D But I do prefer the regular trade paperbacks to heavy hardcover omnibuses. Although I do like the new Strontium Dog hardcovers, just got the latest Portrait of a Mutant one. Mainly paperback for me though, lightweight works for me.

Great countdown as always! And even 2000AD titles that had kind of slid down my to-read list are being bolstered here and higher. I've never read Bad Company, not much Red Seas etc, so much great stuff to read. Been meaning to read Y too. For Saga, I just started it recently.

Quote from: PsychoGoatee on 08 February, 2024, 01:06:58 PM...But I do prefer the regular trade paperbacks to heavy hardcover omnibuses....

I'm just writing about that in the latest entry I'm typing up (#94 fact fans). Omnibus look lovely on the shelves but are a 'mare to read.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 08 February, 2024, 09:52:44 AMMm. There was a sense of that. You quite often see series where they say they're doing X issues and so they damn well do them. I fear Saga might be heading the same way. It's quite refreshing when creators don't do that. Mignola wrapping up Hellboy when he was done, for example.

This is defo true, in all media to be honest. All my fav shows ended before it was too late (though The Sopranos did tease us for a while in Season 6!). In comics its all the more important as they appeal to the collector in me and I've stuck with series long after I should have so I 'had them all' unless there is a conventient jumping off point. Both Vertigo in the past and Image these days seems to do all that really well. Creator, assuming they get going more often then not seem to nail the time to bow out.

There are of course exceptions. Dredd, Usagi Yojimbo and Bunny vs Monkey are diverse examples of series that seem to keep momentum and quality regardless of longevity. That's a rare beast though.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 08 February, 2024, 09:42:55 AMI could never quite get the world building to work either. The disaster aspect made sense. But the rebuild felt too swift. I mean, the instantaneous removal of 'males' means an instantaneous collapse of the food chain. It's not just a case if "we can't eat beef now and should all go vegan". There'd be no pollinators. In fact, no insects at all. Cloning isn't going to cut it. It probably helps if you don't think about it too hard.

I thought it was just mammals that died and insects were all good? I might be misremembering?

It will be interesting how I see the gender issues on a re-read, after even 6 years since I read this I've learnt a lot (look at ol' Woke me!) so I'm intrigued how this one would be impacted by a re-read.

QuoteThere are of course exceptions.

Indeed. And while Dredd has longevity, it's not nearly as consistent as Usagi Yojimbo. In fact, I can't think of another comic as consistent as that, in terms of sheer ongoing quality. (As for BvM, I'd like to do a full read on that at some point, assuming the 9yo will let me borrow her books. But even though that's a comic, my brain aligns it more with Peanuts than Usagi, even though that's in many cases arguably unfair – not least given the ambition Jamie Smart often shows in terms of the stories.)

As for formats, I'm a sucker for a HC, but my ideal would probably be the typical deluxe Image volume. No dustjacket (horrible things). Not too unwieldy. Outsized. Beyond that, the Hachette volumes are very nice, as are the Reckless ones. I do own some omnis, but they tend to be a bit much. And I will never understand the appeal of having everything under one cover. I'm much happier with eg my Hellboy Library Editions (which are frankly more than big enough) and my four Invisibles deluxe HCs, rather than getting that Monster-Sized Hellboy or the all-in-one Invisibles.

Regarding Y, I'm misremembering. Wiki argues that they have different sex chromosomes, and so I guess that future society will be eating a lot of fish and chicken. So not a complete collapse, but a partial one that would have interesting repercussions in the long term. If mammals are wiped out, the landscape of almost every country would change. Birds would presumably quite rapidly start to fill niches again. And while I recall in Y we saw society continue into the future and Yorick's old age, I don't remember quite how it was sustaining itself. (I'm assuming something something cloning. But there's no way that would be viable to retain more than a tiny number of people. You'd rapidly have severe issues as the people alive when the event happened got old and died, because there would be few to care for and replace them. Ultimately, I imagine Y in any reasonably realistic scenario has humans basically going extinct within a couple of generations.)

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 08 February, 2024, 01:28:06 PMIf mammals are wiped out, the landscape of almost every country would change. Birds would presumably quite rapidly start to fill niches again. And while I recall in Y we saw society continue into the future and Yorick's old age, I don't remember quite how it was sustaining itself. (I'm assuming something something cloning...

There's a different book that I'd really like that couold cover that as the rammifcations would be so far reaching on ecosystems and yeah a few hundred years down the line I like to think we'd have 'Death birds' back on the board! For Y it covers as much of that ground as the story needs, but is in no way forensic in its approach and by necessity hand waves a lot of stuff so as not to let the yarn get bogged down.

As for the end yeah something, something cloning sums it up.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 08 February, 2024, 01:28:06 PMAs for formats, I'm a sucker for a HC, but my ideal would probably be the typical deluxe Image volume. No dustjacket (horrible things). Not too unwieldy. Outsized. Beyond that, the Hachette volumes are very nice, as are the Reckless ones. I do own some omnis, but they tend to be a bit much.

Yeah I love a good hardcover but have a low tolerance for size. I have a Humanoids Bouncer collection (fun continental western along the lines of Blueberry - not on the list) and at 412 pages just about defines my limit (see #94 when it comes) BUT have lots of nice collections under that mark. My complete Bone Hardcover is an object to me rather than something I'd read - as it a thing of beauty, I have the series in various forms so don't need to read it.

For paperbacks I'll stretch a bit further I do look at my Usagi Yojimbo Saga collection which I picked up a while ago bit haven't quite made it to the top of the reading list yet) a little nervously at 600+ pages I wonder what they will be like to read. One day I'll take the plunge and think about collecting all the original floppies but that seems a while off yet!

With Usagi, I went full HC. So I have the second edition of the original books, and then the Dark Horse hardcovers. I'll admit I haven't read most of that though. (I do still have all the paperbacks, in a box in the garage. They need another home at some point, but I couldn't shift them on eBay last time I tried.)

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 104 - X-Statix

Keywords: Peter Milligan, X-Men, Allred, Mass media, Social Media, Funny

Creators:
Writer - Peter Milligan
Art - Mike Allred (in the main, others join in but!)
Colours - Laura Allred (in the main see above)

Publisher: Marvel Comics

No. issues: 56 (to date, we might get more?)
Date of Publication: 2001 - 2023

Last read: 2023

Peter Milligan's fourth entry so far, putting him way ahead of anyone else. So it's fair to say I'm a big fan of his writing. BUT

(https://i.imgur.com/6U7WG0Z.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel

will be his last entry for a while and he only has one more to go (I think). So one thing I need to consider here is why I like his work so much yet the bulk of what I like most by him is at the lower end of my list? I think this series will reveal some of that.

First things first I've labelled this X-Statix but it includes a number of different comics based around the same themes and ideas, teams and characters as they develop in the Marvel Universe. So included in my thoughts here are:

X-Force 116-129
X-Statix (ongoing) 1-26
X-Statix Presents - Dead girl 1-5
Giant-Sized X-Static
X-Cellent (vol. 1) 1-5
X-Cellent (vol. 2) 1-5

There are various other bits and bats - the character Doop has a mini or two for example, but this is the core of the material.

X-Statix actually started life as a revamp of X-Force after the original team was believed to all be killed a couple of issues before, with issues 114 and 115 being an epilogue of sorts (it would seem, I've not read any of the issues). Side note these later original X-Force comics were written by our own Ian Edginton so I'd imagine they have some merit, who knows? Anyway, back on track, the tables cleared, the scene is set for a relaunch, but I'm not sure that anyone was expecting the change to be quite like what happened. Joe Quesada had become Marvel's Editor in Chief a year or so beforehand and was really shaking things up. It's hard to imagine any title being changed quite so much as X-Force.

X-Force was born at the dawn of the pouches and big guns era of mainstream comics. Created by Rob Liefeld it was at the very vanguard of that 'gritty' 'tough' era. Now I'm sure in the subsequent 10 years or so it developed beyond that - as I say I've really not read much of the earlier X-Force material but it was still a mainstream mutant title in the X-verse and I believe they were still the most militant of the groups. The new team that appeared in X-Force 116, lead by Zeitgeist, the name tells you a lot, were a team of self-interested, media savvy, media hungry young 'heroes' driven by the need for exposure.

They tried to fight the same battle as previous X-Teams, but rather than do so as underground operatives, defending those that persecuted them, they did so in the glare of the media spotlight and courted popularity, quite successfully. This was the era of television pop shows that produced numerous manufactured bands (as ever it was) but those bands formed on televisions and selected by popular vote. The new X-force reflected this. They must have felt like polar opposites to long term fans and this was seen strongly in the letters column with many fans baulking at the change.

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Copyright - Marvel

Nowhere was this change better emphasised than in the art of Mike and Laura Allred. Prior to 2001 Mike Allred has established himself as a bit of an indie darling with Madman (which we may well talk about later in this list) and Red Rocket 7. X-Force was (almost) his first major work in the mainstream brought to the title by editor Alex Alonso who he had worked with at Vertigo. His art is vastly different to the hyper-realised, death by many lines, early 90s mainstream action comics from which X-Force had grown. Allred's pop-art, with clean beautiful clear lines, open to superb storytelling and a leftfield sense of design that is quite wonderful. It retains a real retro feel while remaining entirely modern and fresh.

It's a breath of fresh air when compared to even the great work of this time at Marvel, see my entry for Bendis Daredevil (entry 125) and Gotham Central (DC but ya know, entry 128) for how I view the art of this era. I should note very possibly incorrectly, but this is how I think of the art of the time from my exposure. It pops (pun possibly intended) off the page. Brims with energy and zeal, carries human interactions to perfection but is so, so clean and neat in the best possible way. The 'indie sensibility' to his character designs, the way he posed characters, with real drama but feeling entirely different to the traditional house style. Characters lounge, relax, they move naturally, though like pop stars there's a real glamour to things. His art has real charm while keeping all the melodrama and danger of a superhero title.

The colouring of his partner Laura Allred makes the art sing as well. In the early days of computer colouring she didn't fall into the trap of overusing effects or grading. She gives the art flat colours enhancing the retro tone of Mike Allred's art, yet just as he does, keeping things feeling modern and current with her colour choices. When computer effects are used they are done with perfect placement and they have real impact and express super-powers and other psychedelic elements of the stories with dynamism and in ways that I believe would have been new and exciting at the time.

(https://i.imgur.com/T3kxs2Y.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel

Mike and Laura Allred's art is a massive part of why I enjoy this series so much. It would seem a shame therefore that over both the X-Force and X-Statix ongoing runs there were a number of guest artists. When those guest artists are the likes of Darwyn Cooke, Duncan Fegredo, Paul Pope and Phil Bond, all coloured by Laura Allred to maintain a consistent through line, there really isn't much to complain about. Sure the series would have benefited by Marvel having the patience to wait for Allred, but Marvel was a monthly grind in those days so fill-ins of that quality are a cross it's a joy to bear! Overall the entire run of comics is an artistic triumph.

(https://i.imgur.com/dFHLVeJ.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel

Having acknowledged the wonderful art it's time to talk about Peter Milligan. In doing that I need to put a little bit of context in as I'm going to attempt to unpick why so much of the work of his that I really like is so low down the list. Why is there only one (can you guess which) that breaks the top 100 (though I do wonder if on re-read others would make it?), yet so much in these early placings. In doing that there will be some emphasis on some of the elements of their work I enjoy less and this may come across a little negatively.

It's important therefore to remember that I LOVE Peter Milligan as a writer. He's one of my absolute favourites, hence having so many great comics on this list, keep in mind any comic on this list I think is really great. Not just good, but GREAT! There are a number of other titles by him that almost made it, he's had a run of IP generating minis over the last few years that have been various degrees of good. He's one of the few writers that I will always consider getting everything I see their name on.

Got it. I think Pete Milligan is a sensational writer... can I stop being defensive now and crack on with this?

In X-Statix Milligan created a rich and diverse cast of characters. They are wonderful. Tike Alcar, Mr Sensitive, U-go Girl, Dead Girl, Doop, Venus Dee Milo, Phat, Vivisector, Spike Freeman... I could go on, I really could. There are so many fascinating and original characters, quite unlike the cast of any other mainstream comic I can think of. Each one fresh and original. Each one is enhanced by being part of the ensemble, interacting with the others in ways that reveal them and make them grow as characters.

Yet sometimes they can feel a little forced and edgy. Made for dramatic tension and those interactions can sometimes read as a little unnatural, only sometimes, but it's there. They are very often unlikable. Now unlikable characters aren't a bad thing. I love so many unlikable characters, I've mentioned this before, but here they can be, well... just unlikable. A bit too cool for school, a bit too edgy, not people I actually want to spend time with, unlike many unlikable characters who I feel

'Well you know what, they might be a twat but it's fun being around them!'

People I imagine if I met them at a party I'd feel really self consciously uncool around. This is a trait that I've noticed before in his work, Lenny in Shade The Changing Man (position 131 on my list) is the example that strings to mind. There are others, sorry for picking you out Lenny. Characters I don't feel I fit in with and end up apologising for myself too. That is probably seen most in X-Statix. I love the fact there is such a cool, diverse cast of characters, he does wonderful things with them so often. Apparently X-Statix has Marvel's first gay kiss, astonishing it took until the 21st Century but there you go. It's just on occasion I don't enjoy hanging around with them as much as I do other characters.

(https://i.imgur.com/WSLwM9X.png)
Copyright - Marvel

Mind for many of the characters this isn't a major problem as many meet quick unpleasant deaths. Zeitgeist and most of the team introduced in X-Force 116 don't make it out of that issue alive. Interesting side note X-Force 116 was the first Marvel comics since the early 70s Spider-man 'drug' issues to not carry the Comics Authority Code, something that marked the start of the end of that awful body.

As the series progresses many characters meet a fatal ending. This creates a wonderful sense of tension in the series. Imagine 'The Walking Dead' if it was as good as this. You genuinely don't know who will make it out any given issues, even characters you'd assume to be safe can be seen off. So overall this is a good thing, but does add to my sense that Milligan's writing can be cold, can feel a little sensationalist, it's not as human as my very favourite writers works. It puts a sense of being edgy over a sense of humanity at times. Again important to note it can have some really powerful, human moments, just often they can feel a little knowing and cynical.

(https://i.imgur.com/vfsnvHI.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel

That sense of sensationalism is no more apparent than in the curtailed, infamous Princess Diana storyline. For those that don't know Milligan and Allred were going to introduce Princess Diana into the series as a superhero. This makes perfect sense given how she craved publicity, while at the same time claiming to shun it and be fearful of the media's glare. So don't get me wrong I have absolutely no problem with the idea, in fact I think I would have loved it, I'm a big fan of criticism of our monarchy.

However others weren't so keen. The English press got hold of the storyline, creating a whirlwind of outrage at how a comic could so abuse 'The People's Princess'. I know the irony is staggering even for the English press, anyway. The issues were pulled and redone with Diana changed to Henrietta Hunter, a pop princess rather than the literal Princess. It was a thin veil drawn across the matter and the press quickly moved on to bullying immigrants or some such.

So, while this particular example didn't worry me at all. In fact I'd have applauded it, it does illustrate Milligan's ability to be too edgy and a little abrasive. And this is the reason a lot of Milligan's stuff isn't higher than it is. As said he can be a little too cool for school and not quite hit those human moments as well as others. While, as I have said already, being a wonderful writer and the vast majority of this work I really, really like.

(https://i.imgur.com/mL71JOX.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel

X-Force and X-Statix told its story and even though cancelled before its time after 40 issues across both ongoing series it feels like it has a satisfying beginning, middle and end. With issue 26 of X-Statix it felt like a good time for the comic to end. The idea of a superhero team as media darling had been explored as far as really needed.

The creators have returned to their world on a number of occasions. X-Statix Presents Dead Girl being a particularly fine example. The mini parodies how comic books treat death as a revolving door very well.

The core theme of the series is robust enough though that the return in 2022 felt almost necessary. It isn't forced at all and feels entirely satisfying and indeed timely. It makes perfect sense to return to the ideas and characters in the age of the internet and the constant drive by people to create content to be consumed. The later X-Cellent minis, starting only a couple of years ago, deal with that perfectly. I do wonder if we will get another return at some point as media consumption and the drivers from creators to satisfy that and clutch at fame, takes its next significant shift. Will the next iteration of X-Statix be AI generated facsimiles of the current team? I wait with excitement to see if we get more as this is a truly great series and comfortably the best and most interesting of all of Marvel's many, MANY X-based mutants books. Something I will return to later in the list for the other (kinda) X-Men comic that makes my top 100(ish)*

*Which isn't an X-Men comic at all - wait until we get there to find out more!

Where to find it

As is so often the case Marvel's best comics get overlooked and there is little or no heat around these comics despite the masterful creative team. With a little patience you'll be able to pick these up in the aftermarket for next to nothing. It's what I did buying the bulk as back issues maybe 15 years ago and picking up the rest for bobbins over the following year or two. A series like this, both timeless and of its time is well served by having in the original floppies as the adverts and similar really place them in their context.

That said the usual online stores (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=x-statix&i=stripbooks&rh=n%3A266239%2Cn%3A274081&dc&ds=v1%3AyLRVOtHzmwjY5aMiZmt9LGsWMGJzc%2FJMDjWKA0yvccQ&crid=10HR99DO8LGM1&qid=1704203694&rnid=266239&sprefix=x-statix%2Caps%2C87&ref=sr_nr_n_7) have these in a variety of collections. The X-Statix omnibus (which does include the X-Force issues) goes for silly money these days.

Wait long enough and I'm sure they'll get reprinted or a new edition. It's one of those series that while not a massive commercial success Marvel knows what they have and keeps returning too.

If you prefer digital you'll have no problem getting these as they are all available via Comixology - or Kindle as it now is!

There are also trade collections (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=x-cellent&crid=2MHWOKRCQ82R5&sprefix=x-cellent%2Caps%2C86&ref=nb_sb_noss_1) of the two recent X-Cellent mini-series readily available.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Statix)

The fantastic Cartoonist Kayfabe (https://youtu.be/_AvmWy5x4mU?si=XSFIGt15R5uPtCYk) provide an excellent analysis of X-Force 116 which introduced the concept.

The not as good, but still watchable Comic Tropes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi0GlGo5pOg&t=897s) has a nice series overview.

My favourite Strange Brain Parts (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CR1dYIJ8Ek4) has a video too... but its a 30 second short so I'm struggling to justify including it! If you want a really quick succinct summary it's worth 30 seconds of your life surely!

Crushing Krisis (https://www.crushingkrisis.com/definitive-guide-to-collecting-x-men-as-graphic-novels/x-statix-x-cellent-definitive-reading-order-collecting-guide/) provides a good overview with a reading order, that isn't really required, but hey its there.

There's a fair amount out there in this one so just a quick google search will get you other takes on the series.


What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

I've read this one! Or at least most of it.

I'm generally not a superhero fan, so when this came out I found it a very refreshing and interesting read. On a revisit, I found a lot of the things I liked about the first time around - such as the cynicism, the brutal violence, the joke names, the vapid characters and their propensity for meeting sudden deaths - to be the things I didn't like about it. It all felt a bit forced, which I think is part of the point - very few of these characters are likeable or relatable and it does feel like a superhero team that could be on instagram, which is brilliantly executed but also not really that fun to read about. Everyone is very zeitgeisty as well, so it's a weird mix of ahead of its time and of its time.

I think the art is fantastic.

Really good writeup though Colin and some really good and interesting points made that has made me consider anothe re-read, if I still have the comics - I'm going to search them out later!

Great read as always! I myself prefer other X-stuff, Allred I respect, bought a bunch of Madman trades etc, just not quite my thing. And the trying to be edgy and cold or off-putting thing you describe is not my fav. But I like hearing what other people enjoy about it, and vicariously I can appreciate it.

I'll take an operatic Claremont run for me.

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 12 February, 2024, 10:30:47 AMI'm generally not a superhero fan, so when this came out I found it a very refreshing and interesting read. On a revisit, I found a lot of the things I liked about the first time around - such as the cynicism, the brutal violence, the joke names, the vapid characters and their propensity for meeting sudden deaths - to be the things I didn't like about it.

Quote from: PsychoGoatee on 15 February, 2024, 01:00:15 AMGreat read as always! I myself prefer other X-stuff, Allred I respect, bought a bunch of Madman trades etc, just not quite my thing. And the trying to be edgy and cold or off-putting thing you describe is not my fav. But I like hearing what other people enjoy about it, and vicariously I can appreciate it.

I'll take an operatic Claremont run for me.

I can defo see why folks don't like that cynical side of these comics. I enjoy it as the context in which they come makes sense as this series deals with the cynicism of mass media, but yeah it can be 'too cool for skool' at times.

As for the Claremont X-run I've got a post coming up about that at some point a little off yet...

Speaking of a series that could be said to be 'too cool for skool'...

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 103 - Gunning for hits

Keywords: Pop music, 1st Album, Record industry sharks, rock music, assassins

Creators:
Writer - Jeff Rougvie
Art - Moritat
Colours - Casey Silver

Publisher: Image Comics

No. issues: 6
Date of Publication: 2019

Last read: 2023

Some comics early in a writer's career can show their inexperience, can be naive in their use of the craft and expose their formative mistakes as a storyteller. Just like first records from bands however they can have an energy and enthusiasm that just means they get away with it and pull you along. Such is the case with

(https://i.imgur.com/Ttq87AI.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Gunning for Hits was the first and as far as I'm aware only comic written by 80s music A&R person Jeff Rougvie. In six issues he shares his experience working at the top of the industry in a fictionalised account of the cut-throat record business of the late 80s. I say cut-throat as the lead character, Martin Mills is not just an A&R person but an ex-assassin / special ops type. A clear allusion to the ruthless nature of the industry, and one that frankly probably wasn't necessary for the story, something I will return to.

The story starts as Mills does all he can to sign a new rock sensation, a real potential powerhouse for the industry managed by their very robust and no nonsense partner. Mills pulls out all the stops to get the deal done before more A&R folks see the band the following evening. Pulls out all the stops and indeed his guns. It's a no nonsense, vicious business!

Deal done, albeit at gunpoint, he then has to get the deal past his superiors, or at least seniors. The problems really start though when an old icon, not even thinly veiled as being modelled on David Bowie catches wind of the new talent and starts to influence him to further his own desire to resurrect his ailing career.

(https://i.imgur.com/SaTbR6m.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

And it is here that we find one of the things that really attaches me to this series.  Jeff Rougvie has lived this life. He's worked with Davis Bowie during this specific period of time. That's not to say this Bowie is the real Bowie, in the story he's actually called Brian Slade. He's a manipulated form of Bowie, crafted for the fiction here. There's a real sense that the characters in this piece are based on reality. Even if it's the specific reality of the writer. I should also note that Jeff Rougvie seems to have nothing but respect for Bowie, regardless of how Brian Slade is present in Gunning for Hits.

In the first issue he also gives a very exposition heavy detailing of the working of a record deal. A big record deal and how the numbers and apparent concessions made by a record company  involved to attract the talent aren't anything like as advantageous as they seem for the artist. Things that comics fans have seen reported and detailed on many occasions within the comics industry if you pay attention to that kind of thing.

Here though the story gives me a peek into a world that fascinates me and I've had less awareness of. That seems valid and based on reality and I trust it - though given the way Mills asks who knows if we can trust Rougvie! It's an aspect of this series that I really enjoy.

It also exposes a weakness in the series, or a potential weakness. The way these machinations within the record industry is a little clumsy from a craft point of view. We get a very specific pointed way of presenting the intricacies. A little 'cartoon' Martin Mills literally breaks down the pitfalls of the deal he has just brokered and how it's nowhere near as good as it might seem. It seems to be playing off the way Scott McCloud presented information about comics in Understanding Comics and there is why it both works and doesn't.

(https://i.imgur.com/pKj4Ko2.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

From a craft point of view there would be smarter ways to build this into the story. It could have been developed via conversation when the deal is presented to Mills' boss to explain why it won't impact the record company in the ways the figures will make it seem to. Indeed in the scene where that happens there is some repetition of this. Smarter, or more experienced writers at least, filter in this sort of exposition heavy fact dump all the time. Both Ian Edginton and Dan Abnett are masters of doing just this. So this is an example of the inexperience Rougvie shows throughout the series.

Yet it really works. Breaking the fourth wall in a way that could be clumsy but here carries a charm and energy that the whole series does. It made me as the reader feel like I was being let in by a writer who has lived this. Indeed it was explicitly doing just that. So while technically there might be 'better' ways to deliver the information, indeed does all the information, in such detail, even need to be there? Does it enhance the story itself? Well no but I love that it's there and for me the way it broke the tone and flow of the tale really worked.

If these little 'breaks' to discuss the inner workings of the industry had occurred on a regular basis it might have become a neat feature. But it doesn't. Once we are past the 4-5 pages of delivery in issue one it never occurs again. A shame on one level, but again it works really nicely, like a song on an album that breaks the tone and feel of the album as a whole. As cute aside that actually in its conspicuous dropping in really enhances the slightly off centre feel of the whole series. It nods to the reader. Let's them know we're being given a peak behind the curtain and does so in such a direct, unfiltered way as to have an energy that it otherwise might not.

Something this story does in spades for me is when it does things badly or a little clumsy it does so with a charm, energy or just plain vigour that it's made to work. This is something I will be returning to.

(https://i.imgur.com/7aZBfTP.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Before I go on any more about the inexperience shown in the writing side of Gunning for Hits I need to make it clear that the art suffers from none of this. The art by Moritat is superb. I've enjoyed his work on a number of titles and he will be appearing later in this list. Here though their work captures wonderfully the darker side of the energy in the music industry. Comics are of course a visual medium and therefore capturing the vibrancy and punch of music is a challenge, Moriat does a very impressive job of exposing the music scene.

It's not that he is able to provide a visual representation of the music itself, rather his work is  suited to presenting the grubby gigs I've been to so many of. They nail the greasy, seedier side of even the biggest stars, the sweat and grime of music shows. The lived in feel of recording studios, juxtaposed with the more glamorous commercial building and people who operate in them, while retaining a clear presentation of their dirty underbelly.

Their use of colour does however punch home the power and vitality of a fantastic music performance. You might not 'hear' the music but you are left in no doubt of the heat of venues, the glare of lights and the sweat on stage and in the crowds dancing before the stage. They add some fantastic effects as well to enhance the presence of music. It fills the backgrounds and the pages when its present.

It's an incredibly impressive job. Their characters are all fantastically delivered, Brian Slade is Bowie in all his glory and in the specifics of this story his dark desperation. Bands play with conviction and the posing and movement of the folks performing is sublime. All of this works so well to paper over the crack in the story.

(https://i.imgur.com/foz4nUV.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Those problems are there though, I got the sense that having Mills be an assassin who literally pulls his guns on people to get them to sign deals feels like it's left over from the initial pitch. It felt to me like Rougvie didn't quite have the courage and confidence as a writer to move away from it. When the elements of the story return to the guntrotting it does feel as if it's to remind us of that aspect of the character, not because it's enhancing or changing the story. The music business shenanigans provide quite enough conflict and tension in their own right to need the genre elements thrown in and that does make them feel tacked on.

The showdown at the end of the series left me feeling all

"Damn - REALLY that happened???"

When you look too closely.

In the end though all these apparent problems actually serve the story really well. They give it real dynamism and raw, unpolished power. You are pulled into the story, dragged along by your hair - well when I was this into music I had some! - and it doesn't let go. Which when you consider this is a tale of corporate wheeler dealing at its heart is very impressive.

There's a commonality in my response to this comic as to my response to music. It doesn't have to be technically good for me to have a positive reaction to something. Indeed sometimes something can be technically very good, have amazing craft and I can find that a bit cold and mechanical. Certainly the case with music but I think we'll see as we go on there are loads of examples of that reaction to the comics I read as well.

I've actually re-read the series - something I've not done with most of my entries as I was worried it didn't deserve the place I gave it on the list so intuitively. It sprang to my mind very early as I was putting together my long list of possible entries. I doubted whether it could be as good as I remember and having read it, for all the problems I see it absolutely is. It absolutely does deserve its place. There aren't enough great comics out there that deal with music, or at least that I've read, for possibly obvious reasons - it hard to represent the actual music effectively in a visual medium, this one does it really well. It's a rough first album, holding onto all the youthful naivety and best ideas of bands as they form. With an unshackled courage to do things that the more considered approach that comes with experiences might have edited out. I might not recommend it as readily as others, but if you find it and it works for you it's a real belter.

(https://i.imgur.com/LR59jLk.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Gunning for Hits is indeed a one hit wonder. As far as I'm aware Jeff Rougvie hasn't written anything else for comics. A sequel was planned, dealing with a later period in the record industry's history but never came to be. Maybe that's a good thing, well if the truism of the tricky second album holds up? Meaning as it is we get this rough diamond, his under produced, raw, energetic delight of a comic.

Where to find it

The trade collection is still readily available from all the usual places (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gunning-Hits-Jeff-Rougvie/dp/153431234X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2YYAKAKPZECQF&keywords=gunning+for+hits&qid=1704205922&sprefix=gunning+for+hits%2Caps%2C67&sr=8-1). You can pick it up digitally at those same places too.

It's not particularly hard or expensive to get in the aftermarket either if back issues are your bag.

If you're luckily enough to be in America, or know someone who'll get it for you there, there's a few LOVELY editions I'd love but can't get at Jeff Rougvie's Store (https://www.jeffrougvie.com/store) as well.

Learn more

No Obligatory Wikipedia page for this one BUT it does have its own website (https://www.gunningforhits.com/).

Read the first issue (https://imagecomics.com/read/gunning-for-hits) online for free over at the Image Comics website!

Quick review over at Comics Bookcase (https://www.comicsbookcase.com/updates/2019/1/7/review-gunning-for-hits-1-is-a-fascinating-if-esoteric-look-at-the-music-business)

Appropriately there is also a Spotify playlist (https://open.spotify.com/playlist/33zoHBRqgVaAxbVQ4P9HRe) to accompany the series. It's available on most music streaming services with a quick search.

You don't Read Comics (https://www.youdontreadcomics.com/comics/tag/Jeff+Rougvie) likes this one as much as me.

You'll get a much more balanced set of reviews in the typical places like Good Reads (https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/42835861)

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

Sounds cool! Comics and rock music, that's the good stuff.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 102 - Zorro by Matt Wagner

Keywords: Western(ish), Matt Wagner, Favourite characters, Francesco Francavilla, Proto-superhero

Creators:
Writer - Matt Wagner
Art - Francesco Francavilla, Cezar Razek, Esteve Polls, John K. Snyder III
Colours - Various

Publisher: Dynamite

No. issues: 32
Date of Publication: 2008 - 2012

Last read: 2018

One thing I've not discussed as much as maybe I should is how much my favourite characters influence my favourite comics. I think of myself as a 'writer driven reader'. It's been clear from these write-ups that artists play a bigger part in my choice than I might consciously acknowledge. There's also a third determinant and that's character. And this is not better illustrated than the mysterious case of my love for

(https://i.imgur.com/qa4qcCh.jpg)
Copyright - Dynamite Comics I assume

See I love Zorro, or rather the concept of Zorro. Just in case someone had managed to live in a world without Zorro - The Fox -  he's a black clad, caped avenger of justice. His secret identity is Don Diego de la Vega the dandy son of Don Alejandro de la Vega a rich Spanish landowner in Alta California - modern day California under Spanish colonial rule in the early part of the 19th Century.  At night he wears his proto-superhero garb and fights the cruelty and injustice of that colonial rule, defending the rights of the indigenous people and commoners of that hot and dusty territory.

He was created as a prose pulp action hero by Johnston McCulley in 1919 and has been a mainstay of popular culture ever since, regularly appearing in books, tv series, films, theatre and yes of course comics, anywhere that carries stories of adventure.

The sad fact is not many of those Zorro stories are any good or I enjoy. I've owned quite a few Zorro comics, the old Marvel run, reprints of supposedly classic series by Don McGregor and Mike Mayhew and more and they've all been a bit rubbish and cast aside. Even the Zorro work by Alex Toth I've let go. Don't get me wrong, they looked astonishing. Alex Toth was a genius, but the stories didn't hold up at all so they went.

I like the Antonio Banderas movies well enough, but they aren't amazing. The older movies kinda suck to my modern (well ish these days) eyes. Years ago I'd even tried one of the original Johnston McCulley pulp books and well it was pretty horrible. I mean this was early 20th Century pulp fiction so... The best Zorro content I'd consumed, in fact the only Zorro content I'd enjoyed a lot was the 2005 novel by Isabel Allende which detailed Zorro's origin and I will of course (well of course to folks who know the comics I'm talking about) be returning to.

So yeah, not much good stuff, but I still love Zorro. There's something about the proto-western setting. The romance of the swashbuckler. The idea of a rich fop living a double life defending the poor and disenfranchised from the rich and powerful that really appealed. And of course he looks bloomin' fantastic. That black silhouette, all flowing movement and rapier thrusts. Galloping in on a jet black steed and springing athletically into the air. The sharp wit.

Sure there are a load of proto-superheroes but Zorro is the one. Surely there's no coincidence that Bruce Wayne loved Zorro, but the elements he gives to superheroes, swirling capes and all run much deeper. I'm so often drawn back to him, however much I bounce off such a large proportion of his actual appearances across almost all media.

(https://i.imgur.com/W4EtwGd.jpg)
Copyright - Dynamite Comics I assume

So when I get a series by one of my all time favourite comic creators Matt Wagner, with art by one of my favourite artists Francesco Francavilla. I'll be returning to both at different points on this list. It's not so much the fact I'm predestined to love them. Rather it's as if I owe them a massive debt of gratitude for finally giving me the Zorro story I've always craved!

Okay let's get a few facts straight in the order of things here. I'd read the Isabel Allende novel before discovering these comics. When I first picked them up I wasn't aware the first arc was a comic adaptation of that story. I also wasn't as big a fan of Matt Wagner as I am now when I first got these. I was aware of him, had dabbled a very little with Grendel and enjoyed a few of his Batman comics. Returning from my Wilderness Years I'm not delved into him properly yet and when I was first reading comics hadn't really got into his work.

It was these comics, over two series, the original 20 issue ongoing and then a 12 issue mini Zorro Rides Again that wraps the series up that introduced me to Matt Wagner properly. It was these comics that led me to tracking down more of his work. So another thing I owe to these comics! I'd also not read anything by Francesco Francavilla. So my affection for these comics sits very much for the story itself and the character. The rest I understood only after.

(https://i.imgur.com/UCp9HZT.jpg)
Copyright - Dynamite Comics I assume

The story across the 32 issues deals with all the Zorro standards. As said the first 8 issue arc details his origin based on the novel and then it solidly stamps itself on all the tropes that make Zorro great. He rights wrongs committed by the rich and powerful colonial powers. He fights for the rights of the oppressed and put upon. We meet all the key characters, Bernardo his mute 'brother', Don Alejandro de la Vega his father who resists the Spanish authorities in California of the early 19th Century in less dramatic ways than our lead. Lady Zorro arrives towards the end of the series. Thunder is his black stead. The villains of course include Sergeant Garcia the luckless clumsy soldier who increasingly bears the classic 'Z' scars of all Zorro's enemies with whom he crosses blades. Ramirez and the Dons.

It's all there and Matt Wagner does the smart thing and realises that none of this needs changing - well arguably his use of Garcia moves things beyond the fat, bumbling buffoon of the original stories. That aside he knew that the character and his world had been popular for 100 years for a reason. He side-stepped the desire to reinvent the character, to modernise him or throw him into scenarios that expanded onto the grounded classic battles of good vs evil in a world where power and wealth drives the villainous rich. There's no vampires, or zombies, magic or demons. Zorro works just fine if you tell great stories with all the elements 'The Fox' was created with. And boy does he tell good stories.

These are classic ripping yarns told by a master of the art form they are presented in. They read more modern and up to date than 'classic' tales, but that's by virtue of craft rather than re-imagining. These are the Zorro stories I craved for so many years. If only more creators realised that when a character has solid, perfectly defined roots you don't need to re-invent to make them work for a modern audience, you just need to tell the stories well and people will gravitate to the tropes and world of that character.

That is of course not to say changing classic characters and re-inventing is always a bad thing. Far from it. It can open new ideas and aspects to those well worn favourites. I don't dislike that by default. In fact I often welcome and embrace it. Rather it's not necessary for its own sake. This is for me very specifically the case with Zorro whose classical presentation had been so poorly served, so there was real purpose and reason to stick to the original model and just tell good stories.

(https://i.imgur.com/xAahGAO.jpg)
Copyright - Dynamite Comics I assume

That is not to say that Matt Wagner rests on his laurels. After all this is Matt Wagner he's restlessly inventive when it comes to his use of comics. In the brilliant final arc of the ongoing series he plays with the very idea of re-imagining Zorro. It's done creatively however, in context. He provides short vignettes of how the characters and people who live in this world see him. The stories depict Zorro as others perserve the legendary hero, a demon riding a literal tornado. A monster in the night. A beast of indigenous folklore. He doesn't hold back on the imagination, he just controls it and uses it to tell classic stories of a classic character.

When teamed up with Francesco Franavilla the comics look amazing as well. Franavilla does the majority of the ongoing series, with one arc by Cezar Razek in the middle. This was at a time when (to my awareness) he was breaking into the American market hence they kept him before he understandably got snapped up by others. He's perfect for the series. His art echoes Alex Toth, perfect use of spot blacks, bold use of dark shadows to convey character and tone. It's deceptively simple, allowing it to portray atmosphere, emotion perfectly while retraining an energy and dynamism Zorro demands.

His page layouts are sublime. Creative and exciting, thrusting the story along with a verve and precision of Zorro's blade itself. Yet never needing to sacrifice clarity and storytelling. When he provides his own colours in issues 15-20 of the ongoing they are pitch perfect. Different palette and hues to capture the requirements of the scene and location. Enhancing atmosphere and story as the best colourists always do.

When the art is not by Franavilla it's honestly nowhere near as good. Cezar Razek is ... competent in the middle issues of that series. In the 12 issues when Zorro rides again Francavilla has moved on alas. Esteve Polls leans into the strengths of his style in the first half of that mini-series, but the execution just isn't in the same league. Its notable the art steps up when longtime Wagner collaborator John K. Snyder III steps in for the second half of that series. He's bolder, confident enough to do his own thing and those final 6 issues are the only ones that get close to the Francavilla issues, they are really nice, just not Francavilla nice!

(https://i.imgur.com/PRPyqx3.png)
Copyright - Dynamite Comics I assume

So we are left with the question; do I like these comics as I love the character of Zorro so much? Well no, as said from the start there are so many Zorro stories that don't work for me. Do I like these comics because of the creators, well yes great stories by great creators really appeal to me. Do I LOVE these comics because of the character or the creator and the answer is of course a bit of both. There is absolutely no doubt that I really rate these comics in and of themselves. These are great stories told well. The fact that they are great stories of a character that really appeals to me undoubtedly elevates them in my mind. I don't need to forgive their flaws as they are so few, so these comics make the list based on their craft I suspect. Their placing is almost certainly raised by the fact these are my favourite stories about a character I really like however and I suspect we will see other examples of that as we go on.

That is not to say I wouldn't recommend these comics to someone who is Zorro agnostic. Across the 32 issues you get a really satisfying complete tale of a character that is compelling, in a time and setting that feels different and atypical. Anyone can pick these up and enjoy them. I just hope by doing so they realise how wonderful and timeless Don Diego de la Vega, 'The Fox', Zorro really is.

(https://i.imgur.com/9WEJ6ve.jpg)
Copyright - Dynamite Comics I assume

Where to find it

It appears as if most the trades (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=zorro+matt+wagner&crid=7ASIYTCWC74Y&sprefix=zorro+matt+wagner%2Caps%2C75&ref=nb_sb_noss_2) are still readily available from the usual online places. Though alas an omnibus of the ongoing seems to be out of print at this time. Can be a bit of scrolling involved so I've pulled out the options for the mini Rides Again (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=zorro+rides+again+matt+wagner&crid=3FQOTYG18WKR9&sprefix=zorro+rides+again+matt+wagner%2Caps%2C61&ref=nb_sb_noss), to save you all time as you rush to get these!

All available digitally via Kindle it would seem too.

As ever the aftermarket is another good option and you can get these pretty quickly and cheaply.

Learn more

There is not an Obligatory Wikipedia page specific to this one so I've included Zorro Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorro) as it does mention the comics at least.

Not a great deal out there specific to this comic run. MTV of all places (https://www.mtv.com/news/m71yu6/dynamite-comics-zorro-rides-again-matt-wagner-interview) has an interview with Matt Wagner done ahead of the start of Zorro Riders Again.

Aside from that its the normal places Good Reads (https://www.goodreads.com/series/68800-dynamite-s-zorro) has its typical range of options always worth looking at.

Publisher Dynamite (https://www.dynamite.com/htmlfiles/viewProduct.html?CAT=DF-Zorro) has a page of sorts and most issues get a preview when you open the specific entry.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

Added to the read list for sure, that sounds great. Also curious about Django/Zorro.

Quote from: PsychoGoatee on 19 February, 2024, 11:16:14 PMAdded to the read list for sure, that sounds great. Also curious about Django/Zorro.

I keep an eye out for that one but the comics go for silly prices. One day!

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 101 - Star Wars - Marvel original series (1977)

Keywords: Movie tie in, formative, needs a re-read, sci-fi adventure

Creators:
Writer - Various
Art - Various
Colours - Various

Publisher: Marvel Comics, then Dark Horse, now Marvel Comics again.

No. issues: 107 issues
Date of Publication: 1977 - 1986 - though I'm basing my reflections on the 7 Dark Horse Reprints 'A Long Time Ago...' released between 2002 and 2003... kinda... we'll get to that...

Last read: 2013

Interesting that having discussed my love of Zorro in my previous entry and how that impacts on how highly I rate the comics discussed there, this one extends that beyond to discuss how my love of a franchise can have a similar impact. Find out more as I discuss

(https://i.imgur.com/TJ6oQYi.png)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

...well actually not that series... well come to think of it kinda that series... let's dig into it to try to explain.

I first read Star Wars comics, like so many fans in the UK I imagine, in Star Wars Weekly the Marvel UK reprint series of the 1977 Marvel Star Wars Comic. The UK comic started in 1978, in line with the later release of Star Wars in cinemas over here. I was 6 when this came out, I genuinely can't remember if they were my brother's or mine. I suspect it might well have been mine as I think my brother was getting 2000ad and Battle at this time and we each got two comics... look it doesn't matter, what matters is Star Wars Weekly was among the regular comics in the Taylor household from the off. I mean how could it not be it meant

MORE STAR WARS!!!!

In the world of young Taylor in the late 70s the possibility of more Star Wars was an enormous delight. It wasn't like these days where there's more Star Wars available on tap than can remotely be needed and more is squeezed from its ailing teat with each passing day. Back in 1978 there was the film, recently out, but now gone from the UK in cinemas and videos weren't really an option yet and it took yearssssss for things to get to telly. There were Star Wars figures to make your own adventures with, as long as your adventures involved maybe 10 characters (if you were lucky and spent all your pocket money on figures) and some cobbled together Lego spaceships and bases. There were a couple of books, I was too young to read them and a recording of a heavily edited version of the soundtrack. I will forever remember our LP had a scratch on it and went into a loop as Han told Luke he had to go pay Jabba rather than stay and join the battle to destroy the Death Star and Luke responds.

"All right. Take care of yourself Han. I guess that's what you're best at isn't it - CLICK

I guess that's what you're best at isn't it - CLICK

I guess that's what you're best at isn't it - CLICK..."

Well okay you don't need all that person reminiscence do you, but it demonstrates how important those films were to me, and so many others back then. So therefore how important Star Wars Weekly was because of that and the joy it gave me, by giving me stories of these characters, this world, or worlds I love so much.  New one's I'd not visited yet too. These comics blow my formative brain in a way maybe even 2000ad couldn't match... though fair to say the impact hasn't lasted quite the same into adult life as the impact of 2000ad... I'm going off target again, I need to stay on target, stay on target...ahem...

(https://i.imgur.com/wOzKIN3.png)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

Who cares if once we'd got past the adaptation of the movie we got a barely recognisable Han Solo forming a version of the Magnificent Seven that included a humanoid green space bunny. This was more Star Wars and these stories mattered and I read them over and over. There are images from these comics burnt onto my retinas.

Comics came and comics went in the Taylor household and however much we loved the movies after 2 or 3 years other comics got those precious slots - after all we have well over 100 of them already and there were so many great comics back then.

Fast forward to 2004(ish) and I'm getting back into comics after my Wilderness Years and to my delight I discovered Dark Horse then reprinted the entire Marvel 1977 series in 7 reasonably priced trade paperbacks. Even in those early days of my return to comics I snapped this up as quick as finances would allow.

(https://i.imgur.com/EUGsd7C.png)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

It's here that trying to unpick precisely why I love these comics so much gets a little tricky. Clearly there is a massive dollop of nostalgia involved. Luke fighting and riding giant water serpents on a water world I now know is called Drexel was so exciting to me. Han fighting Chewie on a space  wheel gambling hive (the name of which I've not stumbled across yet) BRILLIANT. Everyone seems to tussle with Chewie as fighting Chewie is cool. All drawn with the angular wonder that is Carmine Infantio's utter inability to capture likenesses, but who cared we knew who was who and that's all that mattered. These were objectively not great comics. So here nostalgia carries (there's a pun there if I tried harder!) the heavy lifting.

This can only go so far though as after the first couple of the Dark Horse collections I have we get to comics I'd not read in my Star Wars hungry childhood. Stories that will have been reprinted in Star Wars Weekly after we stopped getting it and there are many stories in the last 5 volumes of 'A Long Time Ago...' that I really, really enjoy.

Walt Simonson art with inks by Tom Palmer - yep him again, I do love Palmer's inks! - execute stories written largely by David Michelinie quite brilliantly. I really like their run on the comic, they are really good. Lando returning to Bespin. Luke and Leia on a commando mission to take out the Empire's next super weapon 'The Tarkin' standout without having to give it much thought at all.

(https://i.imgur.com/K3GdgUo.png)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

The later, post Return of the Jedi stories by Mary Jo Duffy and a variety artists, including the super stylised and dynamic work of Cynthia Martin whose work springs readily to mind as amongst my favourite across the whole run, are immense fun. They find a fantastic way to carry on the post Return stories in ways that it could be argued others could have looked at for inspiration. Duffy moves things forward and doesn't roll things back the way Force Awakens did. We get new threads that build on what's gone before, rather than try to recreate... but that's me getting distracted by things that aren't really relevant here. It does however illustrate how there are some great stories being crafted here regardless of the nature of these comics.

There are many more besides those highlighted that are great tales. There are also some dips it has to be said, but not as many as you might think. The inconsistency in writers and artists on the title is very apparent. These are comics produced in the monthly grind and while that shows in the ebb and flow of the quality they are largely good tales, often great tales and almost always very, very entertaining tales that build on my love of the movies. These aren't the greatest comics ever written, by any stretch, but they are some of the most fun to me.

It's fair to say there's an energetic delight to those comics that is difficult to beat. Especially when set in a universe I am incredibly invested in. With characters you just love spending time with. So while nostalgia does play a big part it's entirely possible the naive charm of the comics goes a long way to make them highly enjoyable regardless.

(https://i.imgur.com/v7ZK3t5.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

To try to understand exactly where my love for these comics comes from it is interesting to me to contrast what I'm trying to unpick here with what I said in my previous entry (102) as to why I liked the Zorro comics of Matt Wagner particularly. As I discussed there I've sort out Zorro comics and stories in other media, and dismissed them as they are stories that I just wasn't able to invest in as an adult reader. I only love the Zorro comics when I enjoyed the craft that Matt Wagner and co brought to the carnival, to add to my affection for the character. I clearly am not seeking that level of craft when it comes to Star Wars - though see above that doesn't make these bad comics, they are just not Matt Wagner good!

With these Star Wars comics I find things to enjoy, even in the poorest of stories.  Well okay the very worst I don't get on with, but is it as simple as I like Star Wars so much I'll enjoy any story set in that Universe. Well no, I am able to read Star Wars comics and not like them. I certainly don't enjoy the lots of the Dark Horse material I've read. Regardless of whether it's set around the original trilogy in which I'm most invested. Even well regarded comics like original Dark Horse comics Dark Empire - with glorious art by Cam Kennedy and later by Jim Baike - who we'll learn as this list goes on I adore - I'm not a big fan of.

This is true in other media as well. I don't enjoy many of the newer (post original trilogy) tv and films, I do really enjoy some, but far from all. So setting things in and around the original trilogy isn't the only thing involved in my enjoyment. And to be honest I'm pretty Star Warsed out at this time of my life. I'm sure someone has come up with the term Star Wars fatigue. If they have I've got it!

I clearly do have some critical facility left when it comes to Star Wars as a setting as I do with Zorro. If I don't like Star Wars stuff I'll read them (or watched them) but quickly move on. Nostalgia doesn't dominate my thoughts with the comics I didn't read as a kid, yet I still love them. It's apparent the benchmark I judge those comics by is considerably lowered when it comes to Star Wars. Yet there must be something in them that is objectively fun and allows me to embrace them with glee, over most other comics of this time.

I think in a large part this might stem from what the creators bring to the party. In the 70s and early 80s I can only imagine the excitement creators felt when they were offered the chance to work in the Star Wars universe. They certainly aren't immune to the excitement the franchise generated. Heavens only knows how many pitches were made to get onboard creating these comics. So If they did get the gig, the best ideas cherry picked from a galaxy of potential stories (I'm guessing), they would have attacked the assignment with joyous abandon. It's that which really makes these comics so enjoyable, to me and anyone else who reads them.

I'm sure that's also the case with modern folks working in the Universe. With these comics though, there was just less. There was more freedom, possibly less pressure (well aside from meeting the monthly grind) to meet expectations. Less relentless feedback and critique from fan circles, so they could just have more fun and that shines through. I find it hard to imagine it's not some sort of combination of all the things I've tried to discuss, nostalgia, affection for character and setting and the fact these are just plain, fun, entertaining comics.

The fact that nostalgia and love of the movies help paper over numerous cracks is a factor for sure. That helps cover that many of these stories are objectively not far off the stories I used to create with my action figures. The energy and sheer joy the creators bring to the tales makes them more than just that and explains why they make the list in the position they do... or at least that's what I force myself to believe!

(https://i.imgur.com/aaHWHjb.png)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

Where to find it

These aren't hard to find - in reprint at least, as Marvel taking over the licence to Marvel Comics after years of Dark Horse doing the hard grind mean they have been collected in various ways.

The Dark Horse Collections, in the 7 comic sized volumes I have and the later just bigger than digest  'omnibus' collections aren't as readily available (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=long+time+ago+dark+horse&rh=n%3A274081&ref=nb_sb_noss) as they were.

That's cos Marvel have them in Epic Collections (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=original+marvel+years+star+wars+epic+collection&rh=n%3A274081&ref=nb_sb_noss) and Omnibus (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=original+marvel+years+star+wars+omnibus&rh=n%3A274081&ref=nb_sb_noss) if that's your bag.

All of these are easily available digitally via Kindle (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=marvel+original+star+wars&i=stripbooks&rh=n%3A266239%2Cp_n_binding_browse-bin%3A368165031&dc&ds=v1%3ASgdUtZvNqP9J%2BlqHIMkVISjnA1MXHTTVArY4PK7%2Bghs&crid=17Y72GMH35KH3&qid=1705310924&rnid=492562011&sprefix=marvel+original+star+wars%2Cstripbooks%2C69&ref=sr_nr_p_n_binding_browse-bin_3).

The aftermarket for the original Marvel Stars Wars comics probably isn't your friend this time. They are out there and not particularly difficult to find but they are getting pricey these days. Some issues go for silly money. So unless you are feeling a real desire to invest I'd say reprints / digital is the way to go. The links below help work out which stories are in which collections.

Learn more

The Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_comics) for this one actually covers the history of Marvel Comics more generally, beyond the one's I'm talking about here.

Luckily Wookieepedia (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_(Marvel_Comics_1977)) (always loved that pun!) has a specific section dedicated to the original Marvel run I'm covering here. This one even has entries with summaries of each issue. They also group things together really well so you can tell which issues are in which collections.

If that's too much detail the ever fantastic Grand Comics Database (https://www.comics.org/series/2406/covers/) entry for the series so you can scan through and check the creative teams and runs etc at your leisure.

Lots of videos on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=star+wars+original+marvel+comics) discussing the original series. I've not watched many of these, but sure they are fun.

Also it's not hard to track down other reflections. How to Love Comics (https://www.howtolovecomics.com/2023/05/04/original-marvel-star-wars-comics/) has a nice overview but plenty more are just a Google Search away.

We even have our own recent thread (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49466.0) started by Barrington Boots discussing these comics. Why not jump in there and share your love for them?

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

This is going back a few dozen years. I can remember that my brother and I got some issues when it came out. We did struggle to get most issues. I enjoyed it when I was younger but my older me (the sinical older grumpy me) just do not see this as proper Star Wars.

Like Colin I read these as a kid, and later picked up some of the Dark Horse trades. There was a period where the last few books were pretty costly, but when that changed I was able to complete my collection last year and then re-read the whole lot.
To quote myself:

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 20 October, 2023, 11:07:19 AMSome of it is really good, some of it is pretty dark, and some of it is really boring. Jo Duffy's stuff in particular gets really enaging although I felt towards the end it's starting to collapse under the weight of too many Zeltrons and dark elves. I loved the almost all the Tay Vanis stuff, Lando's Drebble character, See You in the Throne Room, the story with the Stormtrooper from Alderaan - and of course the Han Solo magnificent seven pastiche.
The worst story: possibly the one where Luke has to join a jousting tournament on lizardman world although the John Carter reskin was abysmal.

On the whole I'm a big fan of these books. I'm not sure if anyone without the nostalgia factor could come into them and have the same level of affection, although when they're good they're sooo good - I'm not a fan of modern / extended universe SW either, but I know a bunch of characters and stuff have crossed over into the 'canon' universe because they're such great ideas.
Awesome choice Colin and a great writeup!

Quote from: broodblik on 22 February, 2024, 08:09:53 AMThis is going back a few dozen years. I can remember that my brother and I got some issues when it came out. We did struggle to get most issues. I enjoyed it when I was younger but my older me (the sinical older grumpy me) just do not see this as proper Star Wars.

In many ways its not really, but that's kinda half the fun. Its Star Wars off the leash!

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 22 February, 2024, 08:58:15 AMTo quote myself:

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 20 October, 2023, 11:07:19 AM...See You in the Throne Room, the story with the Stormtrooper from Alderaan...

Ohh I'd forgotten that Stormtrooper story that was really good. Is 'See You in the Throne Room' that Alan Moore + John Stokes (I think) Vader playing chess with a squid story? That was great.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Next post will actually see this thread turn into an actual top 100 so this feels like a good time to have another run down and recap for those joining us late:

Run down of top 100 - 133 -120 (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1108701#msg1108701)

Run down of Top 100: 119 - 110 (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1110054)

109 - Six Gun Gorilla (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1110096)

108 - Batman Year One (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1110266)

107 - Squid Bits (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1110537)

106 - Bad Company  (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1110722)

105 - Y the Last Man (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1110873)

104 - X-Statix (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1111110)

103 - Gunning for Hits (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1111285)

102 - Zorro - Matt Wagner (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1111396)

101 - Star Wars (Original Marvel series 1977) (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1111510)

Not on the List - Dark Knight Returns (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?msg=1110357)

I'm looking forward to the top 100 👍🏻

The reviews of those that didn't make have been very interesting and I will go back and make a wee shopping list.

Keep up the good work

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 23 February, 2024, 09:22:56 AMIs 'See You in the Throne Room' that Alan Moore + John Stokes (I think) Vader playing chess with a squid story? That was great.

I remember that one!
'See you in the Throne Room' is a Luke story where he helps some dude lead an overthrow of a tyrant only for the rebel leader to get assassinated and the Empire to immediately take over. The title is the last thing the guy says to Luke before his murder and he has to figure out who did it.
I was very impressed with it when i first read it: it's quite grim in places, with the female lead cut down by laser fire randomly and Luke having to stop her body being looted by a panicked mob. I also remember the gigantic evil tyrant crushing some guy and moaning about getting blood on his boots - a visceral scene for a Star Wars comic that isn't as good on the page as my youthful mind pictured it!

That story with the Alderaanian Stormtrooper is fantastic though.

Afraid I haven't read the last three, but did want to just say how much I've enjoyed reading your reviews of them.

Excellent write ups as ever Colin. Gunning for Hits is absolutely going on the reading list.

Left field question but is the 2006-7 limited series 52 making the list? Don't know why that ones been in my head lately, recall it getting a lot of buzz in the years following its conclusion and one I always meant to get around to reading.

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 24 February, 2024, 05:49:08 PMLeft field question but is the 2006-7 limited series 52 making the list? Don't know why that ones been in my head lately, recall it getting a lot of buzz in the years following its conclusion and one I always meant to get around to reading.

Not on the list BUT has very recently (like last weekend recently) survived a purge of my collection. Needed to clear out some space as there's been a bit of a shift of late in the stuff I'm reading and the nerd cave was getting full. There went in to see what might go and a couple of hours later turns out I could clear maybe 5 short boxes of comics (maybe more?) into the 'to sell' pile. A lot of my remaining superhero stuff (not all by any means) has gone and only have the really important to me stuff left (pretty much the stuff that makes this list). Even some GMozz stuff as I'm not seeing myself rushing to read certain series by him any time soon.

BUT amongst the other stuff 52 survived cos I want to give it another read. I loved it at the time and in my head is a really nice 'summary' series of the DCU at the time when I got back into comics.

The re-read is a few years off so we'll see how it does then but if you can find it cheaply it definiately worth a go.

I've recently finished 52 as part of my exploration of DC's 'Crisis' crossovers.  It seems that Infinite Crisis runs into 52, runs into Countdown to Final Crisis, runs into Final Crisis.

It's been fascinating in many respects as the myriad storylines seem to explore the minor characters that inhabit the DCU.  Some of the lead-ins to Infinite Crisis such as the Rann-Thanagar War were well worth the read (but then I've always had a thing for Adam Strange mainly because of the Sci-Fi leanings there).

Not sure about how cheap the individual issues are but the graphic novels are definitely not cheap right now.  In fact since Covid it seems that there has been a real ramp up in asking prices.  I managed to pull together the older 4 volume editions of 52 and Countdown.  There are 2 volume editions as well.  Tracking down decent copies at sensible prices turned out to be quite a challenge.

Quote from: Tjm86 on 24 February, 2024, 09:19:18 PMI've recently finished 52 as part of my exploration of DC's 'Crisis' crossovers.  It seems that Infinite Crisis runs into 52, runs into Countdown to Final Crisis, runs into Final Crisis.

Yeah this is an interesting aspect of the core DCU comics of this period. They have 'big' stories that run into each other, each leading to the next. There are side project that add depth and flavour to those stories, to give a sense of the scale of the universe we are playing in. I had pretty much all that key stuff from the time up to Final Crisis (and a little beyond up the Flashpoint really). I've now whittled that down to just the core stuff, or not even that the chunks I enjoy most. I'm therefore fascinated to see how these stories stand up in their own right, stripped of the bigger fanboy dedication to the wider world these stories operate in. I'm looking forward to reading the bits I have left as just stories, set in this wider world, but stripped of the full context.

Well would you look at that, my top 100 has finally reached... well number 100! Took my time getting here or what. Nice that something as significant as this landed at the number 100 slot. I ordered things before adding numbers, so this is a nice, heady coincidence.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 100 - Contract with God

Keywords: Classic, Graphic Novel, Formative, historic, melodrama

Creators:
Writer - Will Eisner
Art - Will Eisner
Colours - Sepia and Cream

Publisher: Various over the years.

No. issues: 200 pages
Date of Publication: 1978

Last read: 2012

(https://i.imgur.com/zUnPGS5.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

Will Eisner's Contract with God holds a very important place in comic book history... well kinda. It's often sighted as the first Graphic Novel and to be honest that's not true on a couple of counts. Firstly there were a lot of comics that would be described as 'Graphic Novels' that came out before Contract with God (it's hard to type Contract with God without prefixing it with 'Will Eisner's'.) I'll not go on about that too much here about the stories that got there first, some much earlier, or debate wha qualifies them as the 'first'. I have linked to a video below that gives a really good summary of the other western comics that have a better case for that title though for those interested.

Secondly this isn't really a novel in the purest sense. Rather a collection of four loosely connected stories. The connection being that all the characters live in the same tenement building on Dropsie Avenue in New York. There are some themes that reach across the four stories but they are very distinct.

Now fair to say that in real terms none of this matters. Who cares if this was or wasn't the first graphic novel. Who cares about some imposed definitions about what that means. The important thing is that Contract with God is a fantastic comic and deserving of its place in history.

(https://i.imgur.com/xIIdNc2.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

The origins and ideas behind Contract with God are steeped in Eisner's history, both personally and as a creator. He grew up in the very tenement buildings the stories are set around, born into a poor a Jewish family in 1917 in New York. Both religious and social upbringing are reflected very clearly in the stories. He lived amongst the people whose story he tells.

Beyond that as a creator he had always strived to elevate the comics medium. He came to fame in the 40s and 50s via his legionary newspaper strip The Spirit. Not the sort of 3 or 4 panel gag strip that such strips would become, The Spirit was magnificent, presented in pullouts included in many papers in the US. Each story was 7 pages and presented in these pulls were many other strip, they were astonishing repositories of comic storytelling. While the series might have had mainstream family entertainment at it heart Eisner, supported by talents like Jules Feiffer in his studio, used the series to restlessly experiment with how the comics medium could be used to tell different stories and be made to work in different ways. The splash pages from these comics are now the stuff of legend and provide so much inspiration for creators who followed and are endlessly homaged.

We'll talk more about The Spirit if you are very patient with me.

In the early 50's Eisner grew restless and handed The Spirit increasingly to other creators and it wrapped up fairly quickly thereafter. He turned his hand to developing his ideas of comics as more than just children's entertainment. He returned to work he had done as part of the US second world war effort, using comics as an educational tool for troops. He produced the instructional magazine PS, The Preventive Maintenance Monthly for the US army. Using his unsurpassed visual storytelling skills to instruct often barely literate US soldiers in the repair and good upkeep of all sorts of equipment.

At the start of the 70s he attended a comic convention in New York and seeing the attendees and materials being produced there realised comics were moving towards the literature he always knew they were capable of. The readers were now adults, not children and teens and so started to develop the ideas of the long held ambition to produce comics with adult themes and literary ambition.

(https://i.imgur.com/RYHHltV.jpg)
Copyright - them what created it...

He also determined that these comics should be sold through the mainstream book market, rather than newsstands and the newly developing direct market of comic specialists. And so in 1978 A Contract with God was released by Baronet Books and marketed to the more adult audience Eisner craved.

The book sold slowly at first. Book shops just didn't know what to do with it. Famously Eisner visited one book shop in his home of New York and asked after the comic. The book seller told him that at first they stocked it with the religious books due to its title and religious themes. Then after customer feedback had to move it to humour, but it certainly didn't belong there. So in the end it was put into storage in the cellar!

However it gained critical acclaim and slowly built its audience and has remained in print almost constantly since its release. Eisner of course went onto the third stage of his career and continued to produce fantastic 'Graphic Novels' until he passed in 2005.

The comics' origin and purpose is important, given that it was at the vanguard (if not the first) of the movement to try to break the barriers of comics getting recognised in the mainstream. It serves as a great introduction to comics as a medium, so I don't think readers new to the art form will be intimidated when approaching it. The opening scenes are more akin to illustrated books than sequential art. It eases people in gently to reading 'graphic novels' literally in its opening pages. Allowing them to acclimatise to this new vehicle for stories of this type. The opening of the second story is wordless, training the reader in a different way. It's capable of slowly building the reader's understanding of the tools and techniques of sequential art and how to read them. It is incredibly smartly done.

(https://i.imgur.com/0nIUNJH.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

This introduction to new readers is helped further by the art. It is of course astonishing, arguably the absolute peak of Eisner's work. Crafted from those years of experience both on The Spirit and arguably most significantly PS he knows how to use all the tools available to make the storytelling so distinct and clear. While it may seem cartoonish, the character acting is perfect, exaggerated and really leaves nothing to doubt. It presents the story and carries the melodrama of the tales. Every texture is delivered with the skill of a master of the form, who has developed their craft over years, and he still has 30 years to go after this.

The page layouts are also absolutely top draw. Use of light, page design, panel design everything is perfect. If you read this as an instructional piece alone and Eisner's done a couple of those as well, it's worth picking up. Just happens to be four brilliant stories as well. Esiner is the very best of any comics creator in the use of the form. I will however talk much more about Eisner's craft in an entry due much later in this list so I'll leave that there for now.

The fact that this is a melodrama is a key consideration when discussing the comic. While Will Eisner had clear literary intent when writing the stories it doesn't reach the levels he might have aimed for. Indeed he seemed to believe he reached. He would reach higher levels himself in the later stages of his career. The themes and characters are writ large, lack real subtlety and depth. Frankly it's quite an easy read, well at least from a literary point of view we'll come back to some other issues.

In the context of what it was trying to do this is a strength though. It's good storytelling, these are great stories, but the reader new to sequential art can focus on the process of reading that new art form. The 'text' itself isn't too taxing. Worth noting I don't think Eisner meant this, indeed he defended the stories and literacy quality from such criticism, but this was fiction from a different time and absolutely melodrama. As said that in no way stops them being fantastic stories however, the reader just needs to understand what they are getting.

(https://i.imgur.com/YXwX1g9.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

It's also worth noting that this has not dated well in some ways. It has a lot of violence against woman, sexual harassment. There are ugly characters in these tales acting in very ugly manners. It doesn't shy away from this, it doesn't excuse these actions, or create sympathy for them. These actions are however likely very appropriate depictions of attitudes of the time this is set in. They are an honest reflection and so it that context they don't detract from my reading.

For me this comic means a lot, I encountered it at the perfect time in my life. Just as I've discussed some of what might be seen as weaknesses to 'proper' readers of comics are in many ways strengths when considered in relation to the intended audience. Prose readers new to the comic form. They also worked perfectly for me when I first read this. I bought and read this in my late teens, early twenties. I was starting to pick up the Kitchen Sink The Spirit reprints whenever I stumbled across them. Via that I heard about A Contract with God and this became my gateway to 'sophisticated' comics.

I was beginning to realise that comics could rise above even the best mainstream superhero comics, even Watchmen. However good that comic is as a piece of art it is still constructed with the trappings of the mainstream, in the comics sense of mainstream. I was still immersed in that mainstream however and Contract with God's simple melodrama made it land like a slap across my face. Character's broad sweeps, almost cliche, with a veneer of depth, well that made this land perfectly and that's why this comic is so formative to me as a reader. Still great characters, still dealing with adult themes and ideas but not with the real depth of works that will build from this, and that is what I needed as a reader when I came to the stories.

I was slowly breaking into comics from the 80s indie scene and this made the perfect bridge. The fact it's melodrama fitted in with what I understand and came to comics for. The fact its ideas, while great, are surface was just right for me then and that creates a nostalgia for how this shifted my mindset. This started to help me define what comics were beyond my four colour wonders and opened my eyes to what they could be.

I still really enjoyed it last time I read it and flicking throuhg it holds up to this day. This is great comics and from an artistic point of view near perfection. I do accept though that my love of it is based in a large part in how it affected me when I first came to it, how it helped shape my approach to all fiction. While still a critical darling I do sometimes wonder how it would hold up in comparison to other more modern works as an introduction to the potential of comics for the adult prose reader.

(https://i.imgur.com/3tS1LyE.png)
Copyright - them what created it...

If you haven't read A Contract with God I can't recommend it highly enough. Approach it with open eyes, it reads as a YA read to me now. A YA read with depiction of very graphic and adult events, but still a YA read. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, it's still truly magnificent comics. If you have read it, well just treasure how it helped elevate the medium we love.

Where to find it

Not a hard one to find either as a stand alone or with the other two titles that get wrapped into the 'trilogy'. Just visit any of the major online sellers (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=contract+with+god&i=stripbooks&rh=n%3A266239%2Cn%3A274081&dc&ds=v1%3AWmZEntc4TgZ9rLYD8d42xg7KqfO1eDk1QwB2d2Cjprg&crid=3T4DC211UB12E&qid=1705479465&rnid=266239&sprefix=contract+with+god%2Caps%2C75&ref=sr_nr_n_7). Or better still visit your local comic shop (if you have one), or independent bookshop and they'll likely have it. If they don't remind them that they should!

The only challenge is deciding which of the many versions to get. Writing this has made me think I need to update my tatty ol' version. The one with the Scott McCloud intro is tempting, though maybe its time to get the trilogy in one volume.. decisions, decisions.

Available digitally via Kindle (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Contract-God-Tenement-Stories-Library-ebook/dp/B06XCVWBGC/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=contract+with+god+kindle&qid=1705479851&s=books&sr=1-2) and I'd imagine other platforms if that's how you like to read the classics.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Contract_with_God)

Cartoonist Kayfabe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPap29ZCviU) has a nice introduction to the 'Graphic Novels' that proceed Contract with God. They also have a video about Contract with God that references the other titles in the 'trilogy' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83t-osoVr0Q).

Contract with God is understandably talked about a LOT in comic circles, so references to it aren't hard to find. The wonderful For the Love of Comics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em6NrFL2abU) actually has two of them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPUm5PPIgPs) (well actually more but these are the directly relevant ones!) and the videos on this channel are always insightful.

You can do a quick search and you'll find plenty, but really they won't be better than Cartoonist Kayfabe and For the Love of Comics... well until Strange Brain Parts does one that is.

I mean the comic has so enter the mainstream consciousness there were even plans to adapt it to a Broadway Musical (https://variety.com/2022/legit/news/will-eisner-a-contract-with-god-adapted-into-broadway-musical-teg-1235354691/) it would seem. I can't work out if that's a good thing or not.

So I'll leave it there but really just do a search in your search engine of choice and you'll find a gazillion website, blogs and what not discussing this historic work.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

Oh.

Oh this is going in the 'prioritise for this year' pile. Indisputably, undoubtedly my kind of bad times.
Any excuse to finally get around to reading more Eisner.
Thanks as always, Colin! Wonderful write up.

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 26 February, 2024, 08:51:16 AMAny excuse to finally get around to reading more Eisner.

No one ever needs an excuse to read more Eisner!

Cool stuff! Somehow this ended with me getting The Building, since it seems a little easier to get into for me (also shorter), always cool to hear about comics history.

That page with the dog is devastating.

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 27 February, 2024, 09:10:39 AMThat page with the dog is devastating.

I wrote about another one like that for an entry coming up. If you want to hammer emotional impact harm a dog (or pet monkey) seems to be the key!

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 99  - Elektra: Assassin

Keywords: Sienkiewicz, Daredevil, Superhero(ish), Stunning art, Needs a re-read, formative

Creators:
Writer - Frank Miller
Art - Bill Sienkiewicz
Colours - Bill Sienkiewicz

Publisher: Marvel Comics (originally under the Epic imprint)

No. issues: 8
Date of Publication: 1986-7

Last read: 2007

Wow has it really been that long since I read this?!? And to be honest that's a guess as it was before I started 'tracking' such things. Mind the point here is this series is kinda melted on my brain, particularly the art. Let's just bask in the artist glory that is

(https://i.imgur.com/3eEpqlM.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

Elektra Assassin came out in 1986 and 1987, what a period that was for Frank Miller, this, Daredevil Born Again and Love and War, Batman Year One, Dark Knight Returns. Wow that is quite an output, as this list will testify one way or another.  In those heady days of the late 80s I held Miller's work in such high regard that in my head Elektra Assassin was held in the same regard as the media triumvirate of Watchmen, Maus and the aforementioned Dark Knight Returns. This was mistaken, but that's where I placed this and explains in part why it appears on this list, but that only gets half way there. This comic does very exciting things.

Before I get ahead of myself let's step back a bit. Elektra was a character created by Frank Miller (and Klaus Janson a bit) in his seminal run on Daredevil. She was created by Miller to examine the nature of love and sex between folks who dress up in tight circus garb and punch each other. She was both villain and ally, in a love-hate relationship with Matt Murdock. This was exciting stuff to find hidden amongst early 80s mainstream superhero comics and sets up tone and surface drivers for Elektra Assassin. It's a violent, sexy attempt to examine things that you won't expect to see in a Marvel comic, albeit under the Epic imprint.

The series ran in eight extra length, glossy issues, a vehicle that Bill Sienkiewicz's astonishing art demanded and has been in print ever since in a variety of formats to try to get the best out of this artistic tour-de-force.  The story was deceptively simple, something I will return to. Elektra is an assassin (well it's in the title isn't it) on a mission to kill presidential candidate Ken Wind. Wind is actually a servant of the Beast, the demonic master of The Hand, who are a secret ninja sect of baddies within Daredevil's universe. She's tracked down by S.H.I.E.L.D. a Marvel US Government Agency and particularly John Garrett, who she manipulates into assisting her.

(https://i.imgur.com/TWj2Uh4.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

Lots of things explode, cyborgs attack, giant evil psychic beasts and are fought desperately. It takes all the comic books tropes of the time and plays with them with a distorted, vicious energy that has rarely if ever been surpassed. It reads like a natural extreme presentation of all the ridiculous things folks had come to take for granted and normalised in mainstream superheroics. It fired the magical nonsense of those comics, to the point of breaking, then dragged them, screaming, beyond that point before pulling things back and putting them back together again in a jagged, hungry way that is like nothing else I've read.

When you've read Elektra Assassin you have to question why 90s comics of the Image generation even tried to do that hard, gritty, ultra-violent hyper-realised version of superheroes they did. It had been done better than anything else could have hoped to achieve in the 80s!

All that is only possible because of Bill Sienkiewicz's mind melting art. Sienkiewicz had spent the 80s developing this art, pushing the boundaries of what could be done in mainstream comics. His work on Moon Knight saw him evolve from a Neal Adams tribute act to a dynamic and kinetic pen and ink artist rarely matched. He grew further during his New Mutants run, as he twisted and turned the possibilities of that pen and ink art, scratched and splattered ink in ways that hadn't been seen before. His covers across numerous titles took that development and used paint to elevate that unmatched energy and hyper-realised edge in ways that just leapt off the shelves. He was the best artist in 80s mainstream comics as he refused to just be fantastic, he redefined what comic art in that arena could be.

(https://i.imgur.com/jXWCrT3.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

Elektra Assassin is the natural conclusion of Sienkiewicz's growth as an artist. The series is over 200 pages, each as wonderfully crafted as the best of his painted covers. This is done while at no time sacrificing the brutal clarity of his storytelling learnt over years of experience. It innovates, experiments with how paint is laid on paper, how that's integrated with other media as it's needed. While doing this retaining the core basics of good comic art.

It's hard to imagine any other artist taking Miller's story, with all its convoluted complexity and presenting it in a way that matches that complexity, yet presents it with a clarity to stop it becoming an impenetrable mess. In the hands of a lesser artist this story would have collapsed. In the hands of even the best 'typical' artist it would have been neutered. Only Sienkiewicz is able to balance the story's savage intent while still making it something you want to approach and spend time with, that feels sharp and piercing and yet luxurious and welcoming.

Simply put this is one of the greatest contributions to not only mainstream comic art, but comic art of all types. As you might be able to tell, art is a massive part of why I love this series so much.

(https://i.imgur.com/0Tj9S5r.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

That said this is not necessarily an easy comic to read for a couple of reasons. Firstly the plot, which when you dig down you realise is actually not that complex, its superhero shenanigans are realised with an awkward edge that masks its simplicity. The first issue is told in a broken unclear narrative representing Elektra's damaged mental state. She starts out in an isolated mental institution in South America, trying to pull together who she is and the pieces of her past she holds onto and Miller uses that to piece by fractured piece reveal the character and her past. It's actually really effective but can be alienating to readers coming into things fresh. This is exaggerated by Sienkeiwiciz's atypical, explosive art. This isn't the comic to give to the novice comics reader.

As Elektra escapes and the main plot unfolds it doesn't present its story in a simple linear fashion, plot points are thrown at you in clumps and it can feel deliberately unsettling and tricky. Things do come together but you have to work with it a little, or just bask in the action and adventure and allow things to come to you in time.

It's also quite a nasty work. Similar to Dark Knight Returns I find it a bit misanthropic. It's deliberately caustic and grim. In Elektra Assassin this works better though than I find it does in DKR (to its friends). Elektra has always inhabited a world of dark undercurrents and evil, so it serves the character examination well. A story focused on Elektra should not be pleasant and comfortable. She operates in a world that inspires misanthropy, but while this makes sense in context it does mean it will put some folks off.

(https://i.imgur.com/9HmalOr.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

This is a satire. A not very subtle satire, it's pretty on the nose, but again that works in context. Ken Wind is always shown using the same gritty photograph of Dan Quayle, George W Bush's Vice President and not a decent chap. His fixed grin always stirring out at the reader, regardless of what he's doing or saying. Hammering home the idea that whatever dark schemes politicians have they always present a steady, cheerful public face. That face though is pretty cracked and broken in reality.

He has terrible schemes too. He plots to bring about the downfall of the status quo in frightening ways, very pertinent for the times. Don't forget though the Presidential candidate is just a figurehead. They are the public face being used to advance the demonic plans of The Beast and its ninja hordes. Miller and Sienkiewicz let their liberal flag fly very openly, remember when Miller had those liberal tendencies, he really did once. Side note to say Bill Sienkiewicz has always had and still retains very progressive views so it's no surprise he drives this to the fore when working with Miller of this time.

It also satires the excesses of superhero fantastic fiction. As said it pulls out and pocks fun at tropes of the time. Making it clear that taking superheroes too seriously is probably a bit daft and there are better ways to approach the genre to get the best out of it.

It also lays bare the ways women are presented in comics. Elektra is throughout a capable, resourceful character. Wrapped in the nasty world she inhabits however the attempts to create a well realised female lead sometimes missteps and fall into the pitfall of trying to present a valid female hero by giving them the action trapping of a 'typical' male lead. Intention is there though and, in the context of the times this was produced, not entirely horribly done.

(https://i.imgur.com/cGXeNTL.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics
 
To return to the start of this entry Elektra Assassin came out at the perfect time for me. My comics brain was developing and starting to stretch in ways it hadn't up to this point. In my late teens this is the series that in many ways captured the essence of the media hype that surrounded 'The year comics grew up'. This one looked to me to be important, as mind blowing as 1986's holy trinity. It involved a character I cared about in a story that to an 18 year old felt grown up and mature. Add to that artwork I simply couldn't comprehend was so good and it's another title shaped the way I engage with story in any media.

It's not really that good in retrospect. It still holds up though in so many ways. It's a classic 80s action movie told with the energy and dynamism of the very best story in any media. What it really holds onto is that sense of ambition and restless need to drive the way comics were perceived and could present themselves. In the main that is carried through the art more than anything, but the story isn't without merit. It's an awkward, sharp edged read but covers up its problems with a bombast and power that is still to this day hard to deny.

(https://i.imgur.com/8IHLxLK.jpg)
Copyright - Marvel Comics

Where to find it

This one is easy to get hold of and is available in lots of formats (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=elektra+assassin&crid=1EOLOJOB6PLYY&sprefix=elektra+ass%2Caps%2C77&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_11), both physically and digitally from the usual places. Like many from its era it's always been in print and likely will for years to come.

There's not a specific Artist Edition for it, and this is a story that absolutely deserves that treatment. However the first issue, with lots of other Bill Sienkiewicz work can be picked up in Bill Sienkiewicz's Mutants and Moon Knights and Assassins Artisan Edition (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sienkiewiczs-Mutants-Knights-Assassins-Artisan/dp/1684059682/ref=sr_1_1?crid=AAM3ZGBA8108&keywords=Bill+Sienkiewicz%27s+Mutants+%26+Moon+Knights...+%26+Assassins%3A+Artisan+Edition&qid=1705915468&sprefix=bill+sienkiewicz%27s+mutants+%26+moon+knights...+%26+assassins+artisan+edition%2Caps%2C109&sr=8-1). I really must get this one!

The original floppies can still be purchased at reasonable prices in the aftermarket as well if that tickles your comics fancy.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektra:_Assassin)

The ever readable Greg Burgas (https://atomicjunkshop.com/comics-you-should-own-elektra-assassin/) has a great entry in his series 'Comics You Should Own' series now on 'Atomic Junk Shop'.

For some balance read Slings and Arrows (https://theslingsandarrows.com/elektra-assassin/) short review that pulls out some of the problems with the comic.

iFanyboy (https://ifanboy.com/articles/elektra-assassin-this-should-be-your-favorite-comic/) gives a write up even more passionate than mine.

I must admit I've not watched this video from Cartoonist Kayfabe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhrLRz-XKgg) yet, it's on my 'Watch List', but I'm pretty sure it will be great.

There's quite a lot out there about this one. For good reason.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

This looks great I cannot believe that I never read this.

Read the collected edition way back in the late 80's. The page which always sticks in my head is the one that details the handful of seconds it takes Electra to deal with the elite SWAT team types that storm the room, attempting to kill her.

Oh, and it was a long time before I had any more mayonnaise.

The thing that always sticks with me about Miller's projects around this time was that he was extremely willing to listen to his artists and change his stories in major ways depending on what they wanted to do (or what they were giving him art wise).

Supposedly with Elektra the idea was going to be that each issue after the first was going to be narrated from the point of view of another supporting character - Garrett was going to die in issue #2 (or be stuck forever in a hospital bed) so someone else would step up in #3 and so on. But Miller liked the design of Garrett so much he kept him around and by the end it's easily as much his story as it is Elektra's.

I remember seeing a lot of talk about this one in my youth but never knew it was so high quality. Will definitely be trying to get this!

It's also easy to forget exactly how divisive Elektra was at the time, or how narrow the range of art styles that many comics fans found 'acceptable' was. Certainly, in my local shop, and amongst my comic-reading friends, people who liked it were very much in the minority. Letter columns in comics mags and fanzines were full of people howling "What is this crap?"

(Mind you, Mazzucchelli's art on Year One wasn't greeted with universal acclaim, either. Lotta people hated that at the time, too.)

I loved it, but I put that down to a certain M. McMahon more or less re-wiring my brain a few years earlier, in respect of what 'good' comic art was, and what it could do, with Slaine.

Quote from: broodblik on 29 February, 2024, 08:46:12 AMThis looks great I cannot believe that I never read this.

Defo worth sorting that out!

Quote from: norton canes on 29 February, 2024, 09:14:53 AMOh, and it was a long time before I had any more mayonnaise.

Oh God yeah!

Quote from: 13school on 29 February, 2024, 12:59:06 PMSupposedly with Elektra the idea was going to be that each issue after the first was going to be narrated from the point of view of another supporting character - Garrett was going to die in issue #2 (or be stuck forever in a hospital bed) so someone else would step up in #3 and so on. But Miller liked the design of Garrett so much he kept him around and by the end it's easily as much his story as it is Elektra's.

Oh I didn't know any of that. That's really interesting. Its hard to imagine it without Garrett?!?

Quote from: lordmockingbird on 29 February, 2024, 02:05:05 PMI remember seeing a lot of talk about this one in my youth but never knew it was so high quality. Will definitely be trying to get this!

As with my comment to Broodblik defo worth doing.

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 29 February, 2024, 02:45:20 PMIt's also easy to forget exactly how divisive Elektra was at the time, or how narrow the range of art styles that many comics fans found 'acceptable' was. Certainly, in my local shop, and amongst my comic-reading friends, people who liked it were very much in the minority. Letter columns in comics mags and fanzines were full of people howling "What is this crap?"

For some reason I can't imagine this (not doubting its true at all) - I can see (and seem to remember) this was the case with his work on New Mutants and I can see that more. This was always destined to be a prestige piece and its weird how much views on quality of art have changed. I can see it rubbing folks up I suppose but mystifies me... buit then that's art for yah.

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 29 February, 2024, 02:45:20 PM(Mind you, Mazzucchelli's art on Year One wasn't greeted with universal acclaim, either. Lotta people hated that at the time, too.)

WHATTTT!!!!

On another note while doing a 'test' for the latest post I've written I've learnt we have a 20,000 character limit on posts here. I mean that's entirely reasonable, but also made me shudder at how much I'm inflicting on folks!

Let the editing begin...

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 01 March, 2024, 01:18:46 PMwe have a 20,000 character limit on posts

For all that I post, I only hit that when I did my review of '23 for the advent.

Quote from: norton canes on 29 February, 2024, 09:14:53 AMRead the collected edition way back in the late 80's. The page which always sticks in my head is the one that details the handful of seconds it takes Electra to deal with the elite SWAT team types that storm the room, attempting to kill her

Elektra, even. Sake.

I only read Elektra for the first time last year but absolutely loved it. I think there are parts which might not have aged as well as they could, but the art is so stunning I'm willing to ignore those. I also had no idea that Marvel were publishing comics like that in the 80's, I was something of a DC / Vertigo fanboy and apart from Byrne's She-Hulk run and reading the comics my friends were buying (West Coast Avengers being the main one I remember, weirdly) I just wasn't aware of what Marvel were doing at the time.

I really enjoyed your post once again Colin, and while the political satire wasn't subtle I hadn't realised that Ken Wild's look was based on Dan Quayle until I read your write up and then face palmed myself! The series also inspired me to check out Miller's Daredevil: The Man Without Fear which I enjoyed a good deal, though I feel it's a shame that's the last ever time he wrote for the series.

I'd really like to check out Elektra Lives Again at some point, but it seems to sell around the £30 mark and given that it appears to be for only 80 pages it's a bit too pricey for me right now.

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 01 March, 2024, 11:45:46 PMI'd really like to check out Elektra Lives Again at some point, but it seems to sell around the £30 mark and given that it appears to be for only 80 pages it's a bit too pricey for me right now.

I've got this in a really nice Daredevil by Miller box set that has so much great stuff in it (including Elektra Assassin) but its the one bit of Miller Daredevil(ish) stuff that hasn't been kept in print regularly.

I only got the box set a few years ago and its not yet got to the top of the pile so I'm still to read it. Looks good but its reputation isn't the same as Miller's other work, possibly cos its kinda forgotten.

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 01 March, 2024, 11:45:46 PMI'd really like to check out Elektra Lives Again at some point, but it seems to sell around the £30 mark and given that it appears to be for only 80 pages it's a bit too pricey for me right now.

Story-wise, it's pretty insubstantial (as the low page count attests) but it's peak Miller/Varley — the visual storytelling is masterful and it looks gorgeous.

(https://i.imgur.com/H7VBX9s.jpg)

Number 98 - Plastic Man by Kyle Baker

Keywords: Loony Toons, Chuck Jones, funny, superhero

Creators:
Writer - Kyle Baker
Art - Kyle Baker
Colours - Kyle Baker

Publisher: DC Comics

No. issues: 20
Date of Publication: 2004-2006

Last read: 2024

Jack Cole's Plastic Man from the 40s is meant to be one of the great steps in the development of US comics. I can't talk to those as I've never read them. Though if they are anything like

(https://i.imgur.com/tRhJeg7.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

By Kyle Baker I really must correct that at some point.

So there are two key things to consider when reflecting on this series. Firstly Plastic Man and the characters place in western comics history and Kyle Baker and his most lauded works in that industry. In isolation they don't immediately strike you as a match that would work. But they are, they certainly are.

Plastic Man was created in Police Comics in 1941 by Jack Cole. His alias Patrick 'Eel' O'Brian was a mobster who through some comic book tomfoolery gained the ability to stretch and manipulate his bodies shape and indeed size in incredible ways. When he does so he retains his costumes red and yellow colouring... don't ask me why... you know ... comics. ANYWAY. He used his abilities to redeem himself and become a crime fighter alongside possibly the worst side kick in comics ever Woozy Winks.

His origins and adventures aren't what's important, but creator Jack Cole is. He made Plastic Man one of the first overtly comedic superhero characters. His art was a perfect vehicle to deliver comedic adventures of a man with a plastic body. His creative imagination and off the wall adventures was apparently like nothing else produced at the time. Significantly his work has influenced so many of today's top creators. He is cited by so many as an important figure. I can't comment on that series too much but I'm very aware of its important and comedic impact. I've seen the art from it and while it's no Will Eisner I get exactly what the excitement is all about.

Kyle Baker certainly takes that and runs with it.

(https://i.imgur.com/ggiuhCK.jpeg)
Copyright - DC Comics

So let's talk about Kyle Baker. Now I'm only going to reference what I know of Kyle Baker, or what I saw and I thought I understood of his work. It's not enough as I need to read more of his work as we'll see, he had very different ideas about his strengths than my perceptions. Baker broke into the industry in the 80s. I knew him then as an inker. He added wonderful dark, scratches of ink to even the most typical and solid of Marvel pencilers of the time and added depth and gravitas to their work. He then went on to do a run on The Shadow at DC, taking over from Bill Sienkiewicz to continue a run that pulled out the dark, edgy grim underworld reality The Shadow operated in.

Moving away from Superheroes he created lauded works like 'Why I hate Saturn'. While a comic I've not read I've always had the impression this was a serious, weighty work. It apparently has some comedy touches but coming from Fantagraphic my impression was he was dealing in the adult, grown-up market. Later work by him such as the award winning Nate Turner certainly do fall into that arena and is again something I must get around to picking up.

In summary he was a serious artist and so when I saw he was doing Plastic Man I was surprised, this wasn't the Kyle Baker I understood. In Plastic Man he shows with absolute aplomb that his creativity is as Plastic as our hero's elastic body. When the story needs it he contrasts the comedic, animated elements of his story with deeper, richer, almost painted pages.

(https://i.imgur.com/BRTRyv2.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

Baker uses these less cartoony, much less cartoony panels and pages to present the 'serious' side of the DC Universe, the grim superheroes so prevalent at the time in stark contrast to the madcap elements of the main story. Wonderfully this makes those pages some of the most comedic. It flags how ridiculous taking our four colour wonders too seriously can be. His handling of Batman is the absolute zenith of this. It's superb and worth the price of entry alone.

Obviously Kyle Baker knew what he wanted to be and it wasn't the artist either I, or the companies employing him, at least originally pigeonholed him as.

"But I always thought I was going to do funny stuff" rather than superhero comics.
(from Wikipedia - see below)

Its testament to his talent that his art style so perfectly reaches across the divide and can enhance a dark, brooding tone, while a moment later can provide zany madcap cartoon fun with even more aplomb. Artistically he's a wonder. It's fitting therefore that this entry sits next to Elektra Assassin in this list. For very different reasons they are both artist wonders and the art plays a big part in my affection for both.

A large part of why the art works so well is it absolutely captures the fact that these stories are basically the very best animated shorts of the golden era of Looney Tunes, Tom and Jerry and the like. I wasn't surprised to learn that Kyle Baker moved away from comics into animation as he wasn't getting satisfied by the work he was given. This experience in cartoons just shines through here.

(https://i.imgur.com/GFcabEG.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

All the tropes of the golden era of the animation short are there. But Kyle Baker is smarter than that, he doesn't just throw in images that capture a look and feel of a fondly remembered time gone by. No he understands that these are comics. You can't draw the motion and action, the crazy distortions, directly as these are still images frozen on the page. Rather he understand that comics have that secret power that Scott McCloud explains so well his his seminal 'Understanding Comics' they have The Gutter, or rather the readers ability to fill the gap in what's happening in the gutter between panels. And he uses this to perfection.

He can't animate the scenes we see, he can draw the eyes as they pop out of a character's head. He understood however that the reader will add that animation as they move between panels, the reader will animate his drawing for him. Why draw 24 frames a second when you can draw two and allow the reader to do the heavy lifting! Well I say heavy lifting his art, panel design and selection of moments to add to the page makes it effortless.

He doesn't stop there however, he realises that the power of the artist, the gutter and the reader can create better, more intricate, more complex animations than even the old masters of the animation cel. As the reader is animating the images he (Baker) is able to show more complex sequences that have the movement created between these powers to do more, more detail, even more crazy things. Things that would have been practically impossible, too time consuming, to actually draw. So he not only provides all the crazy tropes of classic cartoons he learnt while animating and watching cartoons (I assume) he amplifies them, turns them up to 11 and does things that weren't done back in the day.

Kyle Baker uses the comic book form to do classic cartoons better than even the classic comics could. The clever devil!

(https://i.imgur.com/3ZfKjYj.jpeg)
Copyright - DC Comics

He goes beyond that as well. His art at first glance is so distinctly his. His work has such a strong personal stamp to it, that shines through regardless of the diversity of tone or style he is going for. This was true in the days when he was inking others and is just as true when taking all the art chores as he does here. Yet he tweeks the finer points of his art in this series, creating subtly different styles to homage the very best of the cartoons he's drawing so much from. Tex Avery, Friz Freleng and Chuck Jones all 'appear' in the drawing he does, depending on the story he's doing.

There will be better observers of this than me, folks who can spot things and associate those clear differences in ways I've missed. It became particularly clear to me with issue 14, a story in which Plastic Man tries to catch a mouse in his home. His art is straight from a Chuck Jones era Tom and Jerry cartoon, it was absolutely clear to me. He'd tweaked the art to suit the picture and even 'animation' style he was after. It's an astonishing piece of work. It's the craft of an artist and storyteller at the very top of their game.

Once I saw one example I flicked back and noticed more and more of the differences in his other stories. I've not got the knowledge or eye to say with absolute confidence which stories are definitely homaging which animator but it's there and it's clear. Some stories are more Road Runner, some others some call on Hannah Barbera, it's quite astonishing how deft the skill on display is.

 (https://i.imgur.com/zgzvSNT.jpg)
Copyright - DC Comics

I've said before I often don't feel able to talk about lettering as I don't have the keen awareness to always tell good lettering from average - I can really notice when it's bad though as most comics fans can. There are occasions when it does stand out and this is one. Kyle Baker builds the lettering into his art so it really does become a vital part of the finished product. Appreciate that is always the situation, but here the craft is evident even to a lettering dullard such as myself.

The lettering font is very stylised but that captures the mood and tone of the series really well and provides another way the feel of those classic cartoons is emphasised. All the more impressive as of course those cartoons did require dialogue balloons to be printed! Yet somehow the font used does the job!

The thing I really noticed as impressive is how the balloons are used to move the eye around the page. How they are placed to help the reader navigate the often jam packed pages. Where a panel is very dialogue heavy and that dialogue might interfere with the energetic, kinetic action on the page it's cleverly boxed away within the art, or almost in text boxes rather than balloons so it's compartmentalised. All there, all entirely easy to follow, but removed a little from the action so as visually not to kill the timing on the page.

See this is why I don't talk about lettering much - I don't have the vocabulary to really express what I mean... well even more so than when I'm talking about other things before anyone says anything. Maybe any passing letterers can explain more and interprete things for me, if they know the comics... hint hint...

Overall the impact of Kyle Baker's genius both as an artist and storyteller is held within the two issues he doesn't do in this series. Scott Morse fills in on issues 7 and 12 with two really fun one and done stories. These are good comics, the art is lively and also captures something of the tone of those done by Kyle Baker. And they are a real let down! Not as they are bad, they are good, but by being simply good, fun stories you realise quite how special the Kyle Baker issues are. However much fun you have while Scott Morse is on the comics I spent every moment reading them waiting to get to the next Kyle Baker issue. No detriment to Scott Morse, rather absolute testament to Kyle Baker.

(https://i.imgur.com/u1sw0rS.jpeg)
Copyright - DC Comics

I mean look I've written a lot of words here and really to a great extent none of that was necessary at all... quiet at the back I know NONE of this is necessary at all... I as I could have just said

"Read these comics as they are just a massive dollop of plain fun. They are hilariously funny and have astonishing art."

In the early 2000s, an era that was hitting hard on grim and gritty in the mainstream, by trying to have an edge of 'realism' after the big guns and pouches of the 90s these comics were an absolute breath of fresh air. Very few comics make me laugh out loud. I noticed how close these were to the top of my to read spreadsheet (re-read in this case) so I did a bit of a shuffle and read them just before writing this entry. The looks I got off Mrs YNWA, the boy and girl child and even the cat while she was trying to settle down on me as I giggled happily to myself as a re-read these is all you need to know as to why this series gets it place on the list.

Where to find it

Alas there is only really one place (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plastic-Man-Rubber-Banded-2003-2006-ebook/dp/B08L9Q8D2T/ref=sr_1_1?crid=198H14J5NN1UP&keywords=plastic+man&qid=1706260724&sprefix=plastic+man%2Caps%2C76&sr=8-1) to get these neatly these days. In a single hardbound collection - sealed by a giant rubber band of course. This edition is also available digitally at a more reasonable price.

Once again the aftermarket will be your friend. As with so many on my list these didn't set the world alight, so a bit of patience may be required. If you do have that you'll pick these up easily enough for bobbins though.


Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_Man) but since there isn't one for this particular run I've gone with Plastic Man's entry which only has a tiny section on this great run alas.

I'll add Kyle Baker's wiki page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Baker) as I quote it above as well.

 from Grand Comics Database  (https://www.comics.org/series/12045/covers/) - the covers to this series. I've included them here as they really give a sense of the fun this series encapsulates. The cover don't reflect the stories inside directly but they nail the tone perfectly.

The Comics Journal (https://www.tcj.com/malleable-madness-plastic-man-from-jack-cole-to-kyle-baker/) has a great article talking about the Jack Cole stories and this run. Well worth the effort.

Focusing on issue 8 (http://www.multiversitycomics.com/reviews/plastic-man-8/) Multiversity Comics has some nice reflections on the run as a whole.

There's plenty more. These comics are starting to get the attention they deserve. Some of my fav comic YouTube channels have you covered as well. Cartoonist Kayfabe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m5Y6qND5Yo) does a deep dive on issue 1 and For the Love of Comics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwaB0jnnHhg) reviews this after a re-read in conjunction with Tom King's Mister Miracle. Talk of Plastic Man starts at around 13.40 but really it's worth watching all of any video on this channel.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106551#msg1106551)

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106561#msg1106561)

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1106571#msg1106571).

Why I Hate Saturn is excellent, but it's in no way a serious work - it's very much a New York comedy in the vein of things like Seinfeld or even Friends. Nate Turner is the exception in Baker's body of work - pretty much everything he does is either comedy or action-comedy, and it's all very much well worth checking out (The Cowboy Wally Show and I Die at Midnight are two of my faves).

Even his work on The Shadow pretty quickly takes the character down a very absurdist path - his final story (it ends on a cliffhanger because they'd gone so far from what the owners of the character wanted from a Shadow comic that they pulled the plug) was just a bunch of wacky support characters fighting over, uh, something closely related to The Shadow, and the way it was resolved would have led into a plotline a lot closer to Robocop than you might have expected.

Quote from: 13school on 04 March, 2024, 11:07:23 AMWhy I Hate Saturn is excellent, but it's in no way a serious work - it's very much a New York comedy in the vein of things like Seinfeld or even Friends. Nate Turner is the exception in Baker's body of work - pretty much everything he does is either comedy or action-comedy, and it's all very much well worth checking out (The Cowboy Wally Show and I Die at Midnight are two of my faves).

Damn I really need to read more Kyle Baker that's for sure!

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 04 March, 2024, 07:35:32 AM

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 01 March, 2024, 11:45:46 PMI'd really like to check out Elektra Lives Again at some point, but it seems to sell around the £30 mark and given that it appears to be for only 80 pages it's a bit too pricey for me right now.

I've got this in a really nice Daredevil by Miller box set that has so much great stuff in it (including Elektra Assassin) but its the one bit of Miller Daredevil(ish) stuff that hasn't been kept in print regularly.

I only got the box set a few years ago and its not yet got to the top of the pile so I'm still to read it. Looks good but its reputation isn't the same as Miller's other work, possibly cos its kinda forgotten.

I'm going to keep an eye out for that as it's be a handy way to pick up all of Miller's Dardevil wrok.

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 04 March, 2024, 07:46:57 AM

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 01 March, 2024, 11:45:46 PMI'd really like to check out Elektra Lives Again at some point, but it seems to sell around the £30 mark and given that it appears to be for only 80 pages it's a bit too pricey for me right now.

Story-wise, it's pretty insubstantial (as the low page count attests) but it's peak Miller/Varley — the visual storytelling is masterful and it looks gorgeous.

Thanks for that Jim, it probably won't be until Christmas but I definitely will get it at one point this year.

And that Kyle Bakere Plastic Man looks phenomenal and has instantly gone on my Amazon wish list!

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 05 March, 2024, 02:19:45 AMAnd that Kyle Baker Plastic Man looks phenomenal and has instantly gone on my Amazon wish list!

It really is.

Quote from: 13school on 04 March, 2024, 11:07:23 AMWhy I Hate Saturn is excellent, but it's in no way a serious work - it's very much a New York comedy in the vein of things like Seinfeld or even Friends. Nate Turner is the exception in Baker's body of work - pretty much everything he does is either comedy or action-comedy, and it's all very much well worth checking out (The Cowboy Wally Show and I Die at Midnight are two of my faves).

Even his work on The Shadow pretty quickly takes the character down a very absurdist path - his final story (it ends on a cliffhanger because they'd gone so far from what the owners of the character wanted from a Shadow comic that they pulled the plug) was just a bunch of wacky support characters fighting over, uh, something closely related to The Shadow, and the way it was resolved would have led into a plotline a lot closer to Robocop than you might have expected.

Out of interest I forgot to ask 13school have you read Plastic Man and how does it standup compared to Baker's other work?

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 05 March, 2024, 09:43:47 AMHave you read Plastic Man and how does it standup compared to Baker's other work?

Sticking my oar in if I may, I'd have to say that Plastic Man is my least favourite of Baker's stuff (although – as usual now – faced with the persuasive enthusiasm of your review, I might have to give it another go).
For my money, The Cowboy Wally Show is the business, with King David and You Are Here following close behind.
The impact of Cowboy Wally might be diminished if you notice the uncanny similarities with Krusty the Clown, but Baker was in there before Groening.
Have a butcher's, Colin, and tell us what you think.

Quote from: JohnW on 05 March, 2024, 10:01:35 AM

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 05 March, 2024, 09:43:47 AMHave you read Plastic Man and how does it standup compared to Baker's other work?

Sticking my oar in if I may, I'd have to say that Plastic Man is my least favourite of Baker's stuff (although – as usual now – faced with the persuasive enthusiasm of your review, I might have to give it another go).
For my money, The Cowboy Wally Show is the business, with King David and You Are Here following close behind.
The impact of Cowboy Wally might be diminished if you notice the uncanny similarities with Krusty the Clown, but Baker was in there before Groening.
Have a butcher's, Colin, and tell us what you think.

All oars welcome! This is almost what I was expecting. I get a sense the more I look into what Kyle Baker has done that Plastic Man was his fun, for laughs project and his other work has much more depth and is very interesting. That's not to devalue Plastic Man for being fun and for laughs as its very VERY good for that BUT there will be other things to get form his other works.

I'm defo checking some of them out and with the ones you sight... though the fact I've not read 'Why I hate Saturn' always feels like a bit of a blindspot I need to sort!