The Political Thread

[Old Tankie]

I went in M&S today and bought a jumper.  I didn't imagine the three tenners in my hand, they were really there!  The lady behind the counter took them out of my grubby mitt and gave me a nice new jumper!  How were the three tenners not real?  And, could I have done the same with bitcoin?  I can tell you're a disciple of the legendary Max Keiser, Sharky.  I love his programme but most of what he says is going to happen never seems to happen in the end.

[Richmond Clements]

I went in M&S today and bought a jumper.  I didn't imagine the three tenners in my hand, they were really there!  The lady behind the counter took them out of my grubby mitt and gave me a nice new jumper!  How were the three tenners not real?  And, could I have done the same with bitcoin?  I can tell you're a disciple of the legendary Max Keiser, Sharky.  I love his programme but most of what he says is going to happen never seems to happen in the end.

Nah - what does it say on the £10 note? "I promise to pay the bearer..."
That's not actually money - it is a note promising to pay money.

[Ancient Otter]

Meh, give it all a few million years and it'll be all 'how do we melt the fuckin ice now?'

M.

The Russians were planning a few years ago to place an orbital mirror over St. Petersburg to shine sunlight on it during near total darkness of the Arctic winter (another ethical poser). These mirrors could aimed at the glaciers to help melt them....

[The Legendary Shark]

Tordels - your post got me thinking about how to measure wealth. The temptation is to do it in dollars but I think that's a flawed measure.

.
My favourite definition of Freedom is: The ability to do what you need to do when you need to do it.

.
Maybe a good definition of wealth would be similar?  The resources to do what you need to do when you need to do it.

[Old Tankie]

I'm probably being incredibly thick here, Richmond, but isn't the "I promise to pay...." just a throwback to the old days when we dealt in gold coins?  If my £10 note's not real money, I've been seriously deluded for the last 56 years!  Ah! well, time for the nursing home!!

[The Legendary Shark]

Old Tankie, sorry to break it to you but yes; you've been labouring under a misapprehension all your life. I didn't believe it at first either, but it's undeniably true.

.
That "I promise to pay the bearer..." may be a detail but it's a crucial and game-changing one.

[Ancient Otter]

Maybe a good definition of wealth would be similar?  The resources to do what you need to do when you need to do it.

I remember a good few years ago (before the Recession when people were going insane with easy credit here in Ireland) on The Last Word there was a speaker (can't remember his name, sorry) saying people should measure their wealth in how long they can last for without a income, too bad people didn't really listen...

[JPMaybe]

Not made up, exactly. Certain evidence, research and opinion was seized upon to present a 'solution' to the global phenomena of climate change.  The mantra of the architects of this scheme is 'never let a good crisis go to waste' and what could be a bigger crisis than Global Warming (as it was first trumpeted)?

.
In Global Warming was an opportunity to cash-in on this 'crisis' irrespective of how great or small is the effect of human activity on the climate. That the climate changes over time is undeniable - in a dynamic system like the Earth's atmosphere, which envelopes a geologically dynamic planet orbiting a dynamic star in a dynamic galaxy, how could it not change?

The gradient of that change shows anthropogenic GW to be true.  Global mean temperature has increased at an unprecedentedly high rate on a timescale that's utterly minuscule in geological terms, and just happens to coincide with us increasing the parts per million of CO²(which, as you say yourself, is known empirically to be a greenhouse gas) at an unprecedentedly high rate. 

[Dandontdare]

My favourite definition of Freedom is: The ability to do what you need to do when you need to do it.

Now we just need a definition of "need"

[Old Tankie]

So, does that mean I got the jumper for nothing, Sharky?!!  If that's so, I'm back down there tomorrow for a real load-up; suits, shirts, shoes, the whole nine yards!! 

[Richmond Clements]

Old Tankie, sorry to break it to you but yes; you've been labouring under a misapprehension all your life. I didn't believe it at first either, but it's undeniably true.

.
That "I promise to pay the bearer..." may be a detail but it's a crucial and game-changing one.

It's not often Sharky and I agree on this thread - but when he's right, he's right!

[Mikey]

And the Greenhouse Effect (as I understand it and without recourse to Uncle Google) is when solar (and geothermal, I think) radiation is inhibited from radiating out into space by certain gases in the atmosphere such as water vapour. This is why cloudy nights are generally warmer than clear ones, because the cloud layer traps and reflects a lot of the heat soaked up by the ground during the day.

.
On Venus, the atmosphere is thick with sulphuric acid clouds and CO2 - so thick that traps a lot more heat than the Earth's atmosphere, giving it a virtually constant temperature on both lit and unlit parts of the planet.

.
Conversely, as there is virtually no atmosphere on the Moon, no gases, very little solar radiation is trapped, leading to massive temperature differentials between areas of sunlight and shade.

I wasn't trying to be snippy by the way, I was just asking. I didn't pass on spelling 'Effect!'

So if you accept that certain gases help trap heat in the atmosphere, then if you add more of those gases it may be capable of retaining more heat?

M. 

[The Legendary Shark]

Well, the "need" part comes from the flip-side of the Freedom coin; Responsibility. A person is able to decide, as a sentient individual, what they responsibly need and it is up to peers and society to ultimately decide - either through debate, custom, legislation or the courts.

.
If a poor person without transport needs to attend the distant funeral of a loved one then I think that society should recognise that need and provide a taxi or at least a return bus ticket. If, on the other hand, a poor person without a Ferrari needs to compensate for a dearth of penile tissue then I think that society should recognise that need and provide a psychologist and maybe one of those devices that a friend of mine told me that his cousin's hairdresser's nephew happened to read about in a magazine he borrowed once (from me).

[Old Tankie]

Right!  I'm still getting my head 'round this, and you know what, I don't give a toss, if it's real money or not, they still put the jumper in a bag and gave it to me.  And, as long as I can go into a pub and hand over some of this "not real money" and get served with a pint of Guinness I really couldn't care less.  In fact, I wouldn't mind a few sackfuls of this "not real money", I'll find a use for it somehow!!

[The Legendary Shark]

Well, the "need" part comes from the flip-side of the Freedom coin; Responsibility. A person is able to decide, as a sentient individual, what they responsibly need and it is up to peers and society to ultimately decide - either through debate, custom, legislation or the courts.

.
If a poor person without transport needs to attend the distant funeral of a loved one then I think that society should recognise that need and provide a taxi or at least a return bus ticket. If, on the other hand, a poor person without a Ferrari needs to compensate for a dearth of penile tissue then I think that society should recognise that need and provide a psychologist and maybe one of those devices that a friend of mine told me that his cousin's hairdresser's nephew happened to read about in a magazine he borrowed once (from me).