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Spoilers => Prog => : Tjm86 20 February, 2021, 04:43:13 PM

: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Tjm86 20 February, 2021, 04:43:13 PM
The Regened project has been an interesting ride for more familiar readers hasn’t it.  Still in an experimental stage, looking for some sense of what works and what does not.  Then again in many respects that’s the whole point of the project is it not.

Cadet Dredd continues to link the various different presentations.  Wyatt and Tinto present a fairly serviceable one-and-done, exploring Dredd’s early career.  Tinto’s artwork  has a good feel to it, presenting realistic scenes of early MC-1 that to an extent are reminiscent of the 2012 film rather than Ezquerra’s grand finished scene.

The plot centres around familiar tropes of rogue AI’s, pre-war tec, excessive consumerism and youth as exploitable.  It moves along at a good pace with plenty of action to keep attention.  Once again the ‘dults turn out to be the weak link, raising the question of how the Judges managed to rise to prominence (quite a contrast to the lethal Dreadnought’s of the meg).

Once again Tek division shines. Considering what we’ve previously seen in Regened, it really does show the potential for a series exploring this dimension of MC1.  Something we’ve seen from time to time down through the years.  Fertile ground though …

Action Pact – The Radyar Recovery has a nice idea at its core and is well executed.  Horsman’s art is a little busy and scrappy but it works well for the tale.  Soffe’s colours certainly bring it out well.  Certainly it might be interesting to see where this might go but something tells me there might be less scope than the original premise contains.

Viva Forever is another that might benefit from a further outing to explore its potential.  As a one-and-done MC1 tale it certainly works well.  Morzova’s art and Bowland’s colours do completement each other well. Baillie’s script may perhaps be a little too clever on some level with multiple overlapping voices sometimes distracting from the core action.  Aspects of the reveal re-tread familiar ground but as an introduction it works quite well.  Another one for the Meg to revisit perhaps.

Future Shocks is possibly the weak link, certainly for me.  Califano’s artwork channels Transmetropolitan well for this social-media-abuse inspired tale.  There’s an interesting take on the waning influence of ‘influencers’ but little about it feels too original.  Others may well disagree but on a first reading it does feel a little like an early, weaker, FS.  That said, kudos to the creative team for their efforts.  Not horrendous but not awe inspiring …

Mayflies though has to be the star of the show and possibly Carrol finding a potentially rich seem in Rogue Trooper’s world.  It is a little surprising that it has taken this long for Milli-Com memories to register.  Some of the earlier attempts at finding an aspect of RT lore that fit within the Regened project have not been overly successful  but this one …

Mind you, Coleby and Teague’s artwork don’t hurt at all.  Hardly surprising from such a powerful creative team.  Coleby’s earlier work in this world has served him well in terms of grounding the story.  The steady reveal of the different characters helps with the gradual reveal of the framework for the strip.  Although the characters are cyphers to a large extent that is hardly surprising in the circumstances.  What remains to be seen is whether that could be fleshed out.

Certainly of all the strips that could translate well into the prog, this has the most potential for my money.  The closing line says it all really .. “Now we suddenly had a future.”

Arguably this is a stronger offering, once again containing several strips that could well have longer legs.  Mayflies definitely deserves another.  Of the other strips Viva Forever and Action Pact may need another outing to see whether there is enough life in them but certainly there is little to warrant writing them off.  Overall a solid showing.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Bolt-01 20 February, 2021, 04:51:53 PM
A thoroughly entertaining prog but Tjm86 has it right - Mayflies is indeed the pick of the prog this time. A superb entry into the Rogue Trooper world as it exists for Regened.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 20 February, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Cover by Nick Roche:

(https://i1.wp.com/www.comicon.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/21140232-cec8-40b8-90a9-06391e7c854e.jpg?resize=768%2C1002&ssl=1)
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 20 February, 2021, 06:39:58 PM
Cover and Logo:

(https://dyn.media.forbiddenplanet.com/BZ_iEpZ6v-X0cAFyG0kuF1nukgw=/trim/fit-in/779x1024/filters:format(webp)/https://media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/28/b8/5ad366a83847c0e73cd69e4fffc6d18459b1.jpg)
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Richard 20 February, 2021, 09:24:03 PM
Mayflies and Viva Forever are the highlights for me. I'd be happy for either or both to get a series.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Tjm86 21 February, 2021, 10:13:49 AM
See I'd argue that a failure to give Mayflies a shot at a series is borderline criminal neglect ... Viva definitely deserves a shot at an extended outing.  Perhaps a few longer one shots in the meg to start with?
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: JimmyNailz 22 February, 2021, 11:54:47 AM
I agree with everyone's love of Mayflies. Alongside Full Tilt Boogie and Dept K, I am enjoying the Regened stories which centre on a team rather than an individual.

That being said, whilst I enjoyed the team set-up of Action Pact, I worry the premise of time-travel aspect doesn't quite work with aliens as time-travel tends to rely on the reader having a basic knowledge of history, which we don't have for alien planets. However, I enjoyed the art and pace of the action so am happy to be proven wrong.

I enjoyed the art and premise of Viva Forever. I think it could have done with a visual clues that we were in MC-1 (wouldn't the Judges be after her?), but enjoyed the ride.

Futureshock was fine.

Mayflies was great.

Not my favourite of all the Regenes but certainly some good stuff in there.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Colin YNWA 22 February, 2021, 08:49:33 PM
A mixed bag but with some good stuff. I strongly suspect that there will be a conscenus as to the star that should join Department K and the even better Pandora Perfect in getting a longer run.

Anyway we'll come to that.

Dredd - one of the best of these, really enjoyed it and some lovely art. This strip really benefits from not having mustache twirling Rico in all the time and toying with other angles the City and being a cadet opens up.

Action Pact just didn't gell with me. It bounced of me almost entirely. It was all so sharp and pointy and blasty and shouty and at no point was I compelled to care why.

Viva Forever was really nice. Not sure why its been thrown into Mega City One but hopefully it comes back so that tie can be made stronger. It twisted and turned, was well structures and told and fine art. Loved this one.

Future Shock was okay.

and then we get to Mayflies and pretty quickly I knew why everyone was calling this one out. Its fantastic. Simon Coleby's art shouldn't work in a Regened (at least how I think of them... and his style... but Dylan Teague's colour really softened it and helped it pop wonderfully. The story was fun, dynamic and begging to come back.This episoded opened so much potential. Kids designed to die, with no sense of who they are, each with a unqiue trait, cast into a world that is set to ready to kill them. What's not to love.

Okay Joko-Jargo time to stop messing about with these tester strips. You already pumped Full Tilt Boogie into the main Prog - fine - but we now have enough great strips to stop messin' about let's have a Regened with regular Pandora Perfect, Department K, Mayflies and then a mix of one off and shorts of the good stuff like Viva Forever alongside Cadet Dredd and we're good to go. The next stage is ready, come on... its ready...

Enjoyed this one.

: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: ianlineham@yahoo.com 23 February, 2021, 07:55:23 AM
So, do we think Regened now has enough good stories to become a monthly in its own right?
Cadet Dredd
Mayflies
Dept K
Pandora Perfect
Full Tilt Boogie (if there's more to go in that)
Future Shocks - remember this is aimed at new, probably YA, readers so things us oldies see as cliched may be new to others (something I think most times there's a SF film that gets huge critic credibility, like Ad Astra - it's only because I've been reading this stuff for 40 years it seems old!)

Viva Forever and Action Pact maybe?
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Colin YNWA 23 February, 2021, 09:00:16 AM
So, do we think Regened now has enough good stories to become a monthly in its own right?
Cadet Dredd
Mayflies
Dept K
Pandora Perfect
Full Tilt Boogie (if there's more to go in that)
Future Shocks - remember this is aimed at new, probably YA, readers so things us oldies see as cliched may be new to others (something I think most times there's a SF film that gets huge critic credibility, like Ad Astra - it's only because I've been reading this stuff for 40 years it seems old!)

Viva Forever and Action Pact maybe?

Costs and risks of launching a new comic aside I think the material is getting there now. You can also drop in Cadet Anderson and things like that amazing Death Planet game type thing that Henry Flint did in the first FCBD issue. That was excellent - oh and Intestanauts was in that too wasn't it?

Commission a strip from Jamie Smart and Neil Cameron (from The Phoenix) to bunch things up later and we'll laughing.

Gosh its all so easy isn't it... ahem...
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 23 February, 2021, 09:20:25 AM
If the money was there and the risk wasn’t, you could easily enough see two Rebellion launches: Regened and Cor/Buster. I think the former is at this stage in a stronger place and more refined. It could do with a little more spark at times (2220 was for me a bit flat—solid, but nothing really grabbed me compared to Pandora Perfect, Full Tilt Boogie and Dept K) and probably a humour strip or two (thereby becoming a ‘reverse Phoenix’), but it works.

Cor/Buster is a solid framework, but feels a bit more rough and ready compared to the young-person comics mini-IP reads. Naturally, it’s a good thing to have a different approach (Oink showed that in the 1980s), but the material in The Beano and The Phoenix is, on average, stronger. Where Cor/Buster succeeds over those strips is in diversity of approach (The Beano is still very formulaic, with far too much reliance on constant wordplay puns) and having a mix of that and a humour title structure (The Phoenix sometimes has pacing that doesn’t work well, due to too many adventure strips and filler reading pages, like the annoyingly regular and dull flow charts).

Of all the Rebellion announcements this year, the lack of a Cor/Buster special is, for me, the biggest blow. Sure, we can all revel in nostalgia and get excited about seeing an old brand on the newsstands again (Smash; Action). And Rebellion has a consistently solid line in horror (Misty; Scream). I also found the Tammy/Jinty stuff smart, and although girls are now better catered for with The Beano and The Phoenix, the emphasis remains with male-led strips. But it’s in that younger audience I’d love to see a breakthrough rather than the existing sea of plastic shit that populates the newsagent shelves.

Still, until more parents become aware of comics, I don’t see anything changing. Mini-IP exists in a fairly affluent town, in a class of 30 kids in the 6–7 age group. She gets two comics every week. One boy in her class gets The Beano. That’s it. Such numbers are why comics are going to die on the vine within a decade or so, unless something very big changes. (Graphic novels and Manga are of course doing a lot better, not least at a slightly higher age group, but it’d be crushingly awful if The Beano and The Phoenix folded.)
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Barrington Boots 23 February, 2021, 09:34:23 AM
I'm not a fan of the Regened issues but this I thought was one of the better ones.

The original strips seem far stronger than those based on one of the classic IPs like young Johnny Alpha or PG Rogue Trooper - I find Cadet Dredd to be one of the weaker strips in these - but I wonder if that's due to my familiarity with the existing characters. I still think something more light hearted / anarchic would be a standout here: Pandora Perfect took all the platitudes when it appeared and is still to my mind the best thing we've seen in Regened and I think it had both of those elements in spades.

This issue: solid Dredd, I thought the concepts behind Action Pact and Viva Forever were interesting although the strips to me weren't, and a really good idea in Mayflies - interesting to see this drawn by Simon Coleby when in general Regened has gone for a different art style. All three of those are worthy of a return imo.

As ever I'm aware I'm critiquing something that's aimed more at a different age group so I'd really like to hear a review from someone from the actual target audience instead of those of us who generally haunt these boards. Has anyone got a youngsters opinion on the comic?
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 23 February, 2021, 09:54:40 AM
The original strips seem far stronger than those based on one of the classic IPs like young Johnny Alpha or PG Rogue Trooper - I find Cadet Dredd to be one of the weaker strips in these - but I wonder if that's due to my familiarity with the existing characters.

So far I have the same sentiment about the classic characters. Their is nothing wrong with Cadet Dredd but it just do not feel like it is true Dredd. So far the new characters just works better. Maybe it is a case that how do get past the fact that the classics have more than 40 years of backstory too them
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 23 February, 2021, 10:57:39 AM
Cadet Dredd has a kind of Elseworlds vibe to me—it does not align terribly well with what we’ve previously seen from young Dredd, who was ruthless from the get-go. Some of the other characters work better, not being massively different from things like the kids on hotdog runs.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: JimmyNailz 23 February, 2021, 11:01:50 AM
I think a Dredd-verse story about Justice Dept Cadets, with a new roster of young, slightly flawed characters (some of whom might even begin to question the fascist regime they're being groomed into) with the occasional Dredd cameo might work better than "Cadet Dredd".  There's no real "threat" to the Cadet Dredd stories because we (and I assume even younger readers) know he grows up to be the Old Stoney Face we all love/hate.

... or maybe I enjoyed Mayflies too much.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 23 February, 2021, 01:40:32 PM
Actually, a strip called Cadets with the occasional cameo from young Dredd would probably work a lot better for me. But then perhaps this Dredd is finding an audience. Hard to know, really. (I don’t have the right type of youngling here to test these comics on as yet.)
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: TordelBack 23 February, 2021, 02:06:04 PM
Not got this one yet, so it's more of a general comment, but I think a Class of '79 strip could be a happy middle ground. You keep Joe and Rico in the picture (and Kimble, Gibson, Hunt, Alvin, Raider, Nestor, Wagner, Mills etc, if so inclined), but tell a more general school story with a new character.  Wagner has (repeatedly) shown cadet stories can be great, even if Grant showed they aren't all that easy to pull off.

Despite some glorious art and a few decent stories, the Young [$character] stories are consistently my least favourite part of Regened.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 23 February, 2021, 02:21:38 PM
If you look at last week's Dredd story I believe such a story can work in the regen prog.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Richard 23 February, 2021, 03:05:39 PM
I would enjoy the Cadet Dredd stories more if they didn't feel like stories in which children seem to be having a fun time on a rowdy school trip, rather than violent brainwashed fascists in mortal peril.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: BPP 23 February, 2021, 03:26:24 PM
I would enjoy the Cadet Dredd stories more if they didn't feel like stories in which children seem to be having a fun time on a rowdy school trip, rather than violent brainwashed fascists in mortal peril.

I’m still baffled by lots of it. I read prog 300-500 era 2000ad when 10-14, who is this stuff for? 8-10 year olds?
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Jim_Campbell 23 February, 2021, 03:43:29 PM
I’m still baffled by lots of it. I read prog 300-500 era 2000ad when 10-14, who is this stuff for? 8-10 year olds?

That era was getting on for forty years ago. As has been noted on these Regened threads before, kids in the 2020s engage with entertainment media very differently from the way you or I did. Two specific examples: they vastly prefer protagonists closer to their own age, and they hate episodic content. There's a shedload of market research to back this up.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 23 February, 2021, 03:56:50 PM
What worked yesterday does not work today and I can understand how the regen is setup. I do not mind stories where protagonists is much younger I just do not like it when it is written as "childish".
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 23 February, 2021, 04:03:41 PM
And I want to add that writing a story which can be enjoyed by all everyone irrespective age or gender is the most difficult thing.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: BPP 23 February, 2021, 04:40:59 PM
I’m still baffled by lots of it. I read prog 300-500 era 2000ad when 10-14, who is this stuff for? 8-10 year olds?

That era was getting on for forty years ago. As has been noted on these Regened threads before, kids in the 2020s engage with entertainment media very differently from the way you or I did. Two specific examples: they vastly prefer protagonists closer to their own age, and they hate episodic content. There's a shedload of market research to back this up.

Maybe.

Then again I train kids rugby and they seem exactly like kids I trained with 30 years ago. The 12 year olds of colleagues all love uber-violent computer games and doing what they’re not allowed in those game-worlds.

Kids market research rarely convinces me - sanitised, corporate, adult-pressured, monitored.. meh.

A lot of this seems to me to be the exact safe adult-approved content we rejected as kids. Fxxk Dr Snuggles, I want Battle of The Planets.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 23 February, 2021, 05:32:40 PM
There’s certainly still a place for grittier and somewhat subversive content. But the nature of what’s served up isn’t going to work if it’s a facsimile of 1970s 2000 AD, with its black and white art, episodic nature, and strips full of 30-something white men. 
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: GordonR 23 February, 2021, 06:07:32 PM
There’s certainly still a place for grittier and somewhat subversive content. But the nature of what’s served up isn’t going to work if it’s a facsimile of 1970s 2000 AD, with its black and white art, episodic nature, and strips full of 30-something white men.

SpaceWarp is 71.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Tjm86 23 February, 2021, 07:25:54 PM
Of all the Rebellion announcements this year, the lack of a Cor/Buster special is, for me, the biggest blow. Sure, we can all revel in nostalgia and get excited about seeing an old brand on the newsstands again [...] Tammy/Jinty stuff smart, and although girls are now better catered for with The Beano and The Phoenix, the emphasis remains with male-led strips. But it’s in that younger audience I’d love to see a breakthrough rather than the existing sea of plastic shit that populates the newsagent shelves.

In our household the Cor / Buster and Tammy / Jinty specials were absolutely lapped up by our youngest.  She can't get enough of anything Rebellion put out based around these ones.

So I'd say it's less a 'blow' and more a grievous mistake to sideline these two whilst trying to draw in a new audience.  Then again if it's a case of not being too sure what is going to be happening on the high street for the rest of the year then I suppose I can understand (whilst still raging against it!)
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 23 February, 2021, 08:24:24 PM
Comics need huge lead times. I imagine Rebellion has suffered a serious kicking for an entire year now. To head into 2021 with a huge range of specials would be reckless in the extreme. So I’d still go for it being a blow rather than a previous mistake. It’s not like I imagine the company wants to cut things back so heavily; but even then, we don’t know what was and wasn’t a good seller. (I personally hope Cor/Buster did well, but who knows?)
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: oshii 23 February, 2021, 08:50:51 PM
Thought this was the strongest regene so far.   Particularly liked S-Club Rogue Trooper.   More of that, please.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: The Enigmatic Dr X 24 February, 2021, 12:00:53 AM
Here's a thought...

Do you think the prog would ever be replaced by Re-Gened, with regular/historic stuff folded into the Meg?
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: The Enigmatic Dr X 24 February, 2021, 12:01:34 AM
Gives a weekly for the sproglets, and a monthly for the oldies.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 24 February, 2021, 04:30:08 AM
This was a good regen prog I can say without a shadow a doubt that I enjoyed all the stories. It felt more like a jump-on prog with 3 new thrills on displayed.  Still a lot of experimentation going on to determine what works and what does not. With Full Tilt Boogie, Department K (which will get its own series in the prog) and Pandora Perfect I believe there is enough quality available to be able to launch something “new”.

Mayflies was my top thrill this week and would like the story to continue. I can also see some space for both Viva Forever and Action Pact.

I still would like the regen issues to be a more regular/natural break rather than a disruption of the current running series. Overall, the regen progs are growing on me.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 24 February, 2021, 11:07:57 AM
Gives a weekly for the sproglets, and a monthly for the oldies.

Nope the reverse I like my weekly prog how else will I get through a week
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: TordelBack 24 February, 2021, 01:27:19 PM
Hmm, pretty uneven this time out.

A strong cover, and a well-told and crisply drawn story can't really offset the feeling that Cadet Dredd is just a bit... boring. Tinto does a neat bit of redesign on the shoulder eagle, everything is lively and clear, and Wyatt gives us some nice Dreddy characterisation in his suspicions about the missing kid's allowance, but I'm just not feeling it.

Action Pact, the first of two Carrolls, is a good setup for a series, and nicely event-packed. Horsman and Soffe draw some excellent gritty SF action, even if at times some of the character designs remind me of Jim Lee's Youngblood (but with feet).

I have to confess I had to re-read this a few times to work out exactly what was going on: a decent look at Branna the Raydar pilot when he/she/it was first defrosted might have saved me some confusion later on. But I liked the Alien Legion overtones, and I'd really like to see more.

Viva Forever almost works, but doesn't quite. I'm always excited to see something new from David Bailie, and Anna Morozova certainly draws a stylish hero, but again I found myself confused more often than I'd have liked. The reveal that one of the troopers is a holographically-disguised Viva fan didn't come across at all, I had to re-read those pages several times.

Equally the revelation that all the action scenes of Our Hero were actually a gaggle of apprentices in the same costume V-for-Vendetta-style took some puzzling out. But look, it's a good idea, and a lot of story packed into a few pages, I just don't think it quite came across: but almost. Possibly this was all crystal clear to anyone whose brain hasn't entirely ossified.  Is there more mileage to be had here?  Maybe.

Future Shock. Terrific 2000AD art and design from new-to-me Silvia Califano, and vibrant colours from the reliable John Charles. Lots of nice buzzwords and zeitgeisty ideas, but maybe Karl Stock was trying to jam a bit too much into a humble FS, in that there's as many events and characters as in a whole series of obvious-comparison Zaucer of Zilk. Still, better too much than too little.

And then we come to the second Carroll, and indisputable stand-out, Mayflies. Obviously having reigning champion of the Rogueverse Coleby and king of the lustrous finish Teague on art-duties helps sell the concept, but this is still a fine story. Inverting the RT concept of a solo hero with an intangible team, we get all the various GI competencies born into individual flesh, and it just works.  Hopefully there are good stories to tell with this team,  I certainly want to read them.

So for me that's two solid hits in Mayflies and Action Pact, two almost-theres in Viva Forever and the FS, and one very well-executed Cadet Dredd that just failed to excite me. That's a decent showing for an altogether grittier more action-packed Regened than we're used to, although again it seems a pity from an identity point of view that the only returning strip is  Dredd, when it could have been something homegrown like Finder & Keeper, Dept K or Pandora Perfect.

: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Bad City Blue 24 February, 2021, 04:49:18 PM
https://comicscene.org/2021/02/24/comicscene-review-2000ad-prog-2220-regened-special/ (https://comicscene.org/2021/02/24/comicscene-review-2000ad-prog-2220-regened-special/)
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: norton canes 25 February, 2021, 09:18:58 AM
Not much to add except to say that Mayflies was by a considerable distance the best thing in this and in fact any Regened prog so far.

Any idea why we've had so many opening instalments of new strips over the last few Regened progs? Seems strange that not even the promising ones are being followed up. 
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Colin YNWA 25 February, 2021, 09:28:08 AM
Any idea why we've had so many opening instalments of new strips over the last few Regened progs? Seems strange that not even the promising ones are being followed up.

Some are. So we know we're getting more Department K and Pandora Perfect (I didn't dream that did I - we are getting more of those arewn't we?) and Full Tilt Boogie already kicked on and then some.

I guess (it is a guess of course) there is a lot of experimentation going on and hopefully we'll see things settle down when folks feel they are in the stride with these strip a bit more.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 25 February, 2021, 10:30:57 AM
I don’t recall hearing anything about more Pandora Perfect. Would be great if that’s true, mind.

As for things settling down, frequency is always going to be the enemy. If you’re doing four Progs per year, you’ve got four or so non-Dredd slots to fill. That makes it tricky to create an ongoing strip. Additionally, if anything that warrants a full series then gets shifted into the regular Prog, that creates the odd situation where something primarily designed for a younger readership then exists alongside strips said readers should not read, presumably then gearing themselves towards standalone collections.

I don’t envy Rebellion in any of this. Things were tough enough before COVID, but now trying to juggle this kind of thing must be hellish.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Colin YNWA 25 February, 2021, 11:28:29 AM
Phew didn't dream it. Pandora Perfect is listed as returning at some point in 2021 in this Downthetubes article.

https://downthetubes.net/?p=123224 (https://downthetubes.net/?p=123224)
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Tiplodocus 25 February, 2021, 11:38:48 AM
Yeah, I enjoyed that.

As noted above, MAYFLIES excepted, not everything was a palpable hit but even the average stuff was raised by some cool ideas.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 25 February, 2021, 12:02:20 PM
Ah, good. More Roger Langridge is always a good thing, and I really enjoyed that opener. Lots of fun.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 25 February, 2021, 12:41:56 PM
Phew didn't dream it. Pandora Perfect is listed as returning at some point in 2021 in this Downthetubes article.

https://downthetubes.net/?p=123224 (https://downthetubes.net/?p=123224)

Great because I really enjoyed this
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: norton canes 25 February, 2021, 12:44:02 PM
Now I have asked this a couple of times before, but no-one has committed to an answer. So I'm going to have to press you all here: is it 'Regened' to rhyme with 'gleaned' (as in have new genes) or 'Regened' to rhyme with 'lend' (as in 'made for a new generation')? 
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Barrington Boots 25 February, 2021, 12:47:51 PM
Good question. I read it as the latter, as in regeneration.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Bolt-01 25 February, 2021, 02:01:15 PM
Whereas I go for the former - As in Gene the Hackman.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 25 February, 2021, 02:05:13 PM
I will go for jeans
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: JimmyNailz 25 February, 2021, 05:20:44 PM
Now I have asked this a couple of times before, but no-one has committed to an answer. So I'm going to have to press you all here: is it 'Regened' to rhyme with 'gleaned' (as in have new genes) or 'Regened' to rhyme with 'lend' (as in 'made for a new generation')?

I'm #TeamJeaned
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: JimmyNailz 25 February, 2021, 05:24:40 PM
...but having just checked it in a rhyming dictionary it seems it might well be "as rhymes with pretend"

Well I never! Next you'll be telling me Slain doesn't rhyme with "pain"!
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Dark Jimbo 25 February, 2021, 05:37:02 PM
Whereas I go for the former - As in Gene the Hackman.

Me too!
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Woolly 25 February, 2021, 06:14:15 PM
Team #jeans all the way!

I'm a big fan of the ReJeaned* progs, and wouldn't mind if they were to have runs of more than one issue at a time, to allow certain thrills to build and hopefully start to maintain a bigger fan-base.

And, as an added bonus, this would also cause the Negaverse to implode  :thumbsup:


*arf!
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Jim_Campbell 25 February, 2021, 06:42:42 PM
Well I never! Next you'll be telling me Slain doesn't rhyme with "pain"!

Can —> open. Worms —> everywhere!
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: I, Cosh 25 February, 2021, 07:37:39 PM
It’s obviously gened like genie. Never occurred to me it could be anything else.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: TordelBack 25 February, 2021, 07:48:28 PM
It’s obviously gened like genie. Never occurred to me it could be anything else.

Agreened.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Richard 25 February, 2021, 08:48:24 PM
It's derived from gene and genes, so why would it change?
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Barrington Boots 25 February, 2021, 10:22:06 PM
Seriously I'm the only one who reads it that way ? Its surely a spin on regen, which is a term I see used in gaming a lot.

You're all wrong, you lot.

: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: sintec 25 February, 2021, 10:48:57 PM
It's been said plenty upthread but Mayflies really is the stand out of the 3 new strips here. Great set up and I really hope we get a series of this so it has a chance to develop on this very solid opening. Neither of the other 2 new setups really grabbed me. Action Pact lived up to it the name with plenty of action but I didn't really care about any of the characters and it wasn't always clear what was going on at times. Can't quite put my finger on what didn't work about Viva Forever for me but it didn't leave me wanting more which isn't a good sign for a first episode.

Cadet Dredd was a good yarn. Dredd doesn't feel like Dredd in this though - he comes across as a slightly generic super-kid character. The Future Shock was fun but fairly forgettable.

I've made this sound a lot worse than it was...  I quite enjoyed it really and the art was great throughout (bar the confusing storytelling in Action Pact). Looking forward to getting back to the regular roster next week though - I like my prog with a bit more grit than Joko delivers.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Bolt-01 26 February, 2021, 09:06:34 AM
Dear TMO,

Can you please ask young Joko-Jargo what the correct intended pronunciation of 'Regened' is?

Yours sincerely - old people who think 'far' too much about this sort of thing.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: norton canes 26 February, 2021, 09:20:11 AM
Assuming Molch-R has been briefed on the correct pronunciation, the latest Regened podcast (https://2000ad.com/news/the-2000-ad-thrill-cast-lockdown-tapes-2000-ad-regened/) has the answer...
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Barrington Boots 26 February, 2021, 09:43:55 AM
Aargh! I'm wrong then and EVERYONE ELSE was right.
<FF7-Barrett-style-armwave>
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: scrotnig 26 February, 2021, 09:46:15 AM
It could only ever have been re-jeaned.

I mean, the term was used in Rogue Trooper way back and there was no ambiguity there, due to the context.

Enjoyed this issue. As seems almost universal, Mayflies was the stand out for me. I want to see more. Soon.

I enjoyed Viva Forever but am unsure if it could sustain a series. Also it'd have been nice to have seen more of the Meg given that it's set there.

As always, I am a big fan of the idea behind these progs and I thoroughly enjoy the brief change of style for a week, indeed I look forward to them, even though they aren't directly aimed at me. They are also beautifully put together and a joy to behold!
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: TordelBack 26 February, 2021, 09:57:48 AM
I'm wrong then and EVERYONE ELSE was right.

Welcome to my life
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Barrington Boots 26 February, 2021, 10:01:27 AM
I'm the victim of a liberal conspiracy theory!
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: ozebane 26 February, 2021, 10:06:55 AM
I started picking up the prog again a few weeks ago as it showed up in my local Tesco for the first time since I was a kid, and I really cannot stress enough how much more I enjoyed this issue than the last couple. It’s bright, it’s full of ideas, and honestly, it’s so much more contemporary. This scripts aren’t toned down at all. The loss of the occasional boob and a bit of gore doesn’t make it any less appealing to adults, it just makes it more appealing to everyone. All-ages doesn’t mean “for kids”, and Rebellion seems to understand that. The logo looks great, too. I reckon you could pull off a fantastic standard Dredd that doesn’t betray the character in this style, and I’d love to see it happen.

Oh, and I say Regened as in Regenerated.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: TordelBack 26 February, 2021, 10:22:55 AM
You were so nearly on the side of the angels, ozebane,  which makes your fall all the more terrible...
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: scrotnig 26 February, 2021, 11:10:13 AM
I started picking up the prog again a few weeks ago as it showed up in my local Tesco for the first time since I was a kid, and I really cannot stress enough how much more I enjoyed this issue than the last couple. It’s bright, it’s full of ideas, and honestly, it’s so much more contemporary. This scripts aren’t toned down at all. The loss of the occasional boob and a bit of gore doesn’t make it any less appealing to adults, it just makes it more appealing to everyone. All-ages doesn’t mean “for kids”, and Rebellion seems to understand that. The logo looks great, too. I reckon you could pull off a fantastic standard Dredd that doesn’t betray the character in this style, and I’d love to see it happen.
I absolutely agree with all of this.

Oh, and I say Regened as in Regenerated.
Oh. And it was all going so well.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 26 February, 2021, 11:11:18 AM
Viva Forever on reflection seems like a one-and-done. The structure was Future Shockish.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Wilko10 26 February, 2021, 03:21:58 PM
The placement of these Regened progs is, admittedly, somewhat askew. Instead of acting as a temporary lapse from ongoing weekly stories, they would work much better as a break once said stories are finished. Criticisms aside, though, Prog 2220 was entertaining - if not entirely memorable.

Dredd -- Can't say I thought long and hard about this strip, but it was light fun. I enjoyed the Robot Wars reference, and that's about it.

Action Pact -- Had no idea what was happening in this one. I would attribute this to the art, which was stylish but somewhat indecipherable. I had a tough time navigating the story.

Viva Forever -- Great fun. Pippa Bowland's colors are delightful and Baillie's writing is smart, although nine tips was a bit overkill. I think the rule of three would have propelled this story into being brilliant. Less is more, after all.

Geeno Firenzo -- Its execution is a bit rough, but I liked what Karl Stock explored here. Scathing critiques of society and, more specifically, the phone generation, but these Future Shocks have often suffered from feeling overstuffed. Once again, less is more - at least for me.

Mayflies -- Completely agree with everyone that this steals the show. Rogue Trooper has always been more than just about Rogue. There's so much to explore in the world that a continued series of these characters would be very much welcome.     
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 26 February, 2021, 03:39:34 PM
Action Pact -- Had no idea what was happening in this one. I would attribute this to the art, which was stylish but somewhat indecipherable. I had a tough time navigating the story.

That was also my first reaction then I re-read it. The story is quite interesting especially the premises where beings are captured throughout the galaxy in different times and then used to do the dirty work off the one alien species. I would like it to be explored more.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: sintec 26 February, 2021, 07:05:15 PM
The story is quite interesting especially the premises where beings are captured throughout the galaxy in different times and then used to do the dirty work off the one alien species. I would like it to be explored more.

Isn't this basically the plot of Damnation Station though?
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Huey2 26 February, 2021, 11:00:08 PM
Really liked this prog. Favourite of the year so far.

" This scripts aren’t toned down at all. The loss of the occasional boob and a bit of gore doesn’t make it any less appealing to adults, it just makes it more appealing to everyone. All-ages doesn’t mean “for kids”, and Rebellion seems to understand that. "

Absolutely! I would love to see 2000AD permanantly go all ages. Whilst my youngest will occasionally dip into collections of the old stuff it's not the same as a brand new prog arriving once a week. I'd love to be sharing the current thrills with him but the occasional bouts of swearing, nudity or gore are a barrier.

Other thoughts:
As others have mentioned, really enjoyed seeing Simon Coleby's art here. I think some of the other regened progs have suffered by having too many artists with a similar style. One of the things which appealed to me when I first picked up the prog was the range of art within one prog. You could have the likes of Smith, Belardinelli, O'Neill and Ezquerra all rubbing shoulders.

Whilst I enjoyed the new strips, I do think it's a shame they were linked to the Dredd or Rogue universes. In some ways this seems to set limits on them whereas, with only a few tweaks, they could have had their own worlds to explore.

And Cadet Dredd. I enjoyed the tale but would have preferred to have read the same tale starring the current Dredd. I get that kids, on the whole, prefer to read tales about characters their own age but that's because the protagonist is usually navigating the same, or an exaggerated version of their own lives. Taking the obvious example - Harry Potter - the success of the tales is largely down to the adventure taking part in a unusual school and the camaraderie he has with his classmates. Let him have his adventures on his own in a haunted woods and it wouldn't matter what age he was.
The other thing about Cadet Dredd is that any reader picking up the prog is going to know - or find out soon - that there's a adult Dredd and I fear that giving them the shorter version can be seen as patronising. Still, at least this version was free of Rico foreshadowing an event that's already happened forty odd years ago.

: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: HeidTheBaw 27 February, 2021, 12:13:57 PM
This won’t be popular on here, but I thought I would add some balance.

I resent paying £5 for these specials and I only do so to keep my collection intact.

I don’t see the the point in them. I started reading 2000ad at 8 years old and I was lured in by great stories and incredible art. It made me a comic fan for life. I’ve got two boys and they’ll be ready to do the same, and I won’t be using the Regened specials to initiate them. The cartoony, kid friendly approach has no longevity - kids will grow out of it pretty quickly. It doesn’t have the staying power that has kept me reading the prog for 35 years.

Cadet Dredd was just about serviceable, but the art, although functional, is not appealing at all. The story was just there.

Action Pact was a mess. Carroll is a terrific writer but this felt rushed and lacked and sort of hook. The art is all over the place. Very difficult to tell what is going on, hard to tell who is who, unappealing aesthetically and poor depiction of action for what is supposed to be an action based strip.

Viva Forever was just about readable, which is standard for Baillie, but the art is awful. Completely inconsistent from panel to panel. Weirdest body shapes I’ve ever seen in a comic. Confusing and generally just not nice to look at. The colours were the main saving grace.
Putting Mayflies aside for a moment, the art in the future shock was the best of the bunch. Loads of character, expressive and easy to follow with layouts that worked and told what story there was well.

Mayflies was the only thing I’d be interested in seeing more of. It just reads like strip that would appear in the normal prog. But it’s weirdly jarring finally alongside the rest of the strips in here.

2000ad is working already as it is. I get that that it’s good to try out new concepts or writers and artists, but there must be better than this out there. Or maybe not and that’s the problem.

I know it’s good to be positive, especially when new people are breaking through. But i wouldn’t hand this to anyone I was trying to get into comics, let alone 2000ad, they’d never want to read a comic again.

I’d just hand them a bunch of progs since the start of the year; there’s not been a strip less than solid since the end of year special. It’s mostly been stellar in both writing and art.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 27 February, 2021, 01:40:38 PM
The cartoony, kid friendly approach has no longevity - kids will grow out of it pretty quickly. It doesn’t have the staying power that has kept me reading the prog for 35 years.
What kept you reading the Prog is presumably that it evolved. Ultimately, it’s now aimed at old gits that comprise most of the readership of this forum. If it’s to survive — if Rebellion’s comic line is to be more than catering to a dwindling pool of adults and a small number of nostalgics — it needs to broaden its scope accordingly.

So I don’t disagree that the kid-friendly approach in and of itself doesn’t (necessarily) have longevity (although I’ll happily read Lumberjanes, Usagi Yojimbo, Phoenix, etc, all of which are in that space), but it’s supposed to provide an entry point to youngsters that the current Prog cannot do.

2000ad is working already as it is. I get that that it’s good to try out new concepts or writers and artists, but there must be better than this out there. Or maybe not and that’s the problem.
For very young children, there’s loads of choice, assuming you want a magazine full of generic puzzles bagged with plastic tat. Oh, and there’s Hey Duggee, which on transforming into a sticker magazine to save money actually massively improved the entire product. Even so, it still only has two comic strips. There are the Lego comics, too, which are, objectively, a bit shit. But you’re really buying that for the covermount.

In terms of traditional comics we’d recognise, that leaves The Beano (humour; currently aimed at a slightly broader market than before, which is both genders and 5–11 or so) and The Phoenix (mixed strips; skews a couple of years older) and… that’s basically it. Plus The Phoenix is hardly sold anywhere and so hardly anyone knows about it.

That’s not to say I think Regened is perfect. I think it has a number of problems in terms of frequency, strip rotation, writing, and impacting on the momentum of existing 2000 AD strips. But I do like the concept and think it has a role to play. It’s good to know it sells well, and I hope Rebellion can make it work. (Ultimately, I’d like to see the company figure out how to spin off a separate publication, but, well, £££££.)
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Jim_Campbell 27 February, 2021, 02:06:06 PM
I don’t see the the point in them. I started reading 2000ad at 8 years old and I was lured in by great stories and incredible art.

I'm not sure how often it needs repeating on these threads, but…

Great stories and art, yes. But simply recreating 'golden era' 2000AD isn't going to connect with today's yoof who, twenty/thirty/forty years after whichever chunk of progs you choose to label 'golden age', would be largely unmoved by five cliff-hangers every week in black-and-white stories featuring surly, thirty-something white men.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 27 February, 2021, 02:10:42 PM
You can even have a case where in the normal prog you find nothing appealing it is the nature of the beast. The regen progs are aimed at getting anyone reading the comic irrespective the age. This I felt was achieved.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Mike Carroll 27 February, 2021, 02:16:28 PM
Now I have asked this a couple of times before, but no-one has committed to an answer. So I'm going to have to press you all here: is it 'Regened' to rhyme with 'gleaned' (as in have new genes) or 'Regened' to rhyme with 'lend' (as in 'made for a new generation')?

As I recall, during his after-dinner speech at the Annual 2000AD Creators Retreat in Honolulu a couple of years ago, Tharg several times pronounced "Regened" as Rej-en-ed. That is: it pretty much rhymes with "Reginald" if you take away the L.

: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Bolt-01 27 February, 2021, 02:27:50 PM
You're a baad man, Mr Carroll.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 27 February, 2021, 03:27:16 PM
The cover before it was coloured:

(https://2000ad.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Cadet-Dredd-Lo-Res-784x1024.jpg)
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: HeidTheBaw 28 February, 2021, 08:26:25 AM
I don’t see the the point in them. I started reading 2000ad at 8 years old and I was lured in by great stories and incredible art.

I'm not sure how often it needs repeating on these threads, but…

Great stories and art, yes. But simply recreating 'golden era' 2000AD isn't going to connect with today's yoof who, twenty/thirty/forty years after whichever chunk of progs you choose to label 'golden age', would be largely unmoved by five cliff-hangers every week in black-and-white stories featuring surly, thirty-something white men.

I never mentioned a specific era to be recreated. The ‘golden age’ of 2000ad has never ended for me. I love the bunch of progs that we’ve had since the turn of the year, all 5 strips have been as good as anything from the 80s. As much as Wagner, Mills and Grant etc are my heroes, we have new bunch of terrific writers in Williams, Carroll, Neimand etc.

The prog has been terrific this year as has the Megazine since the anniversary special.

I’ll remember Lawless, Proteus Vex, Brink and Dreadnoughts with the same fondness I do with Nemesis, Harry 20 and Strontium Dogs.

I can’t remember a single thing I read in the Regened progs other than Full Tilt Boogie and I only remember that because I ended up skipping it from about 3 or 4 episodes in.

It’s not about replicating the era that drew me in. It’s about keeping the standard high so that any readers checking out the prog for the first time come back next week and keep coming back.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Jim_Campbell 28 February, 2021, 09:08:29 AM
I never mentioned a specific era to be recreated.

No, but you talked about what appealed to you when you were eight. If you're anywhere near the standard demographic for members of this forum, that will be a significant number of years ago and what appealed to eight-year-olds at that time is likely to be noticeably different from what appeals to eight-year-olds now.

You're entitled to like or not like whatever you want, and there's certainly an argument to be made that if The Powers That Be at Rebellion want to target a significantly different demographic who prefer significantly different story-telling priorities then, maybe, that should be broken out into its own specials or even an ongoing title. I imagine Rebellion would like nothing better, in an ideal world, for 2000AD Regened to be a separate, additional revenue stream to the regular prog.

However, particularly in the current precarious market conditions, that's a very risky proposition and I don't have any easy answers on how to square that circle. I think everyone would agree that the principle of trying to broaden the appeal of the 2000AD brand is a worthwhile and sensible one, and the only difference of opinion is how best to do that.

The 'Regened' issues may not be the best way, but I suspect it may be the only practical way in the current circumstances.

Disclaimer: I have zero inside information on this specific matter, but I've worked in various capacities for publications selling both on the high street and into specialist markets for most of my adult life, and a big chunk (possibly the majority) of the comic work I've done in the last few years has been on all-ages or YA titles.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: TordelBack 28 February, 2021, 04:26:03 PM
I’ll remember Lawless, Proteus Vex, Brink and Dreadnoughts with the same fondness I do with Nemesis, Harry 20 and Strontium Dogs.

This is a great point, and one I hadn't really thought about. At some point many of the recent stories entered my personal pantheon alongside the eternal '80s greats, and I haven't really reflected on that fact.

OTOH I've enjoyed a surprising number of the Regened stories, as well as stuff from. Tammy & Jinty and the other kid-aimed specials. This week for example I was half-planning to download a digital Meg I'd missed to top up the thrill-tanks between 'regulr'progs, but found I didn't need to.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Woolly 28 February, 2021, 05:26:37 PM
Well, I genuinely agree with Joko-Jargo - this prog was Earth-shattering!
I just wish it had a bit more room to breath - the overall art direction is, frankly, a breath of fresh air. Not that I have any problems with the art in the standard prog or meg, it's just that these Regened progs really feel like they're trying much harder to be a brand new thing than the usual, long established titles are doing.

If a 3 issue chunk of Regened could be somehow fitted into the regular schedule without breaking up any runs, that'd be sweet as!
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: pauljholden 28 February, 2021, 05:34:30 PM
I’ll remember Lawless, Proteus Vex, Brink and Dreadnoughts with the same fondness I do with Nemesis, Harry 20 and Strontium Dogs.
From a span of Approx 2000+ progs.
I can’t remember a single thing I read in the Regened progs other than Full Tilt Boogie and I only remember that because I ended up skipping it from about 3 or 4 episodes in.
From a span of half a dozen progs - with respect I think your expectations of a stone cold classic in each regened is a little high. (I mean, speaking for myself, that's what I'm aiming for, but no-one really knows what the audience will like until it hits...)

: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: MumboJimbo 01 March, 2021, 06:46:02 AM
I’m a bit more sanguine about the Regened progs than I was, for two reasons. Firstly, well, I’ve just come around to the idea more. It brings in a new audience and that helps the long term viability of 2000 AD.

Secondly, this issue, for me, was a bit edgier and does the classic 2000 AD thing of doing a sideways look at the issues of the day. Cadet Dredd was, in my interpretation at least, a swipe at the working conditions at Amazon warehouses, and the Future Shock was a polemic on the rise of social influencers. Mayflies didn’t have  such a directly allegorical nature, but its central idea of genetically bred cannon fodder teaming together to escape their destiny was certainly in the spirit of the prog I was buying back in 1983.

My remaining gripe is that some of plot points were a little lost in translation from idea to script to panel. The chase sequence in Action Pact was hard to follow, and it wasn’t clear their ship was approaching a cliff edge - it looked more like they were going to crash into the side of a mountain. Also, as has already been mentioned, when the bodyguard guy morphed into one of Viva Forever’s fans. On first read I didn’t pick up on that at all, and just thought is was a quick change of scene back to the ongoing heist business. I think for an all ages prog, it’s probably more important that these things are tightened up before publication. You want the young’uns enjoying the twist and turns of the story rather than scratching their heads at what just happened. As I’ve mentioned before, the previous Regened issue had similar problems with the Cadet Dread episode, so if anything the Regened issues have more problems in this regard than the regular prog, which is a pity.

If the next Regened issue can have ideas of this calibre, but also 5 stories that make perfect sense on an initial read-through, then I think Tharg’s nephew will be onto a surefire winner!
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: The Corinthian 01 March, 2021, 11:14:58 AM
From a span of half a dozen progs - with respect I think your expectations of a stone cold classic in each regened is a little high. (I mean, speaking for myself, that's what I'm aiming for, but no-one really knows what the audience will like until it hits...)

Isn't this the big problem with Regened though? There's not enough of it for the new character to make a splash. Full Tilt Boogie stands out because it got a longish run in the regular progs. The first episode is fine but without the follow-up series I doubt it would have stuck in my mind.

Regardless of the merits of the contents, the Regened progs feel awkward because it can't really lead anywhere. Is Rebellion using them to trial a regular Junior 2000AD? Apparently not, or it would have materialised by now. Are they stepping on points for new readers? The example of FTB suggests it might be, but the Regened format itself suggests that regular Tooth isn't suitable for those readers. Is it just to drive sales on 3 or 4 specific issues per year? In that case, why not do them as specials rather in the weekly?

None of this makes Regened wrong, bad or unsuccessful, but it feels like a one-off experiement that's simply been repeated several times rather than properly developed.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Jim_Campbell 01 March, 2021, 11:30:09 AM
Regardless of the merits of the contents, the Regened progs feel awkward because it can't really lead anywhere. Is Rebellion using them to trial a regular Junior 2000AD? Apparently not, or it would have materialised by now.

I sort of addressed this in my post a little further up the page. My strong suspicion (and, again, no inside info here) is that Rebellion would very much like it if the market would support Regened as a standalone title, or multiple regular specials per year but, right now, that's simply impractical.

Even if the bump in sales for the Regened issues is only ageing Squaxx buying an extra copy for their kids, it's building the Regened brand and getting it into the hands of the audience they'll need to address for it to be practical to break the Regened issues away from the regular prog at some hypothetical point in the future.

That sales bump would also be crucial in proving to the distributors that the title is viable in its own right. Distributors are remarkably hostile to new product and convincing them that your publication has legs is a big hurdle in getting any new title to market.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Colin YNWA 01 March, 2021, 11:34:19 AM
I wonder how much will be determined by how the collections do? If you believe what you see the book shop's are awash with title from Dog Man to the DC YA stuff. Maybe what we are seeing is the end game in the hope that the collections do well?

: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 01 March, 2021, 12:09:51 PM
I also feel like The Corinthian about the release of the regen issues. Why disrupt the regular prog's flow if you could have created 4 specials during the year. As a normal subscriber I would have picked-up the regen specials with a smile (even subscribe to a regen prog). I think we all would like to know what the plan is going forward. What I can see is that each regen prog we have a few changes to see what works and what does not.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Link Prime 01 March, 2021, 12:16:02 PM
I’m still baffled by lots of it. I read prog 300-500 era 2000ad when 10-14, who is this stuff for? 8-10 year olds?

That era was getting on for forty years ago. As has been noted on these Regened threads before, kids in the 2020s engage with entertainment media very differently from the way you or I did. Two specific examples: they vastly prefer protagonists closer to their own age, and they hate episodic content. There's a shedload of market research to back this up.

Maybe.

Then again I train kids rugby and they seem exactly like kids I trained with 30 years ago. The 12 year olds of colleagues all love uber-violent computer games and doing what they’re not allowed in those game-worlds.

Kids market research rarely convinces me - sanitised, corporate, adult-pressured, monitored.. meh.

A lot of this seems to me to be the exact safe adult-approved content we rejected as kids. Fxxk Dr Snuggles, I want Battle of The Planets.

I am equally unconvinced that kid's tastes have changed too dramatically in the past 40 years, based on nothing more than first hand experience with every child in my family / circle of friends that I have ever known. Like ever.

I cannot see the Regened experiment resulting in increased younger readership of 2000AD.
The reality is that it's most lasting impact will just be the fact it pissed off a non-insignificant portion of the Prog's loyal readership, who would have likely supported the concept (if not the sanitized content)  financially through other avenues.

Maybe brought up before - but why not go after a slice of the reportedly thriving 'Manga' market?
I imagine that the format would suit several of 2000AD IP's and the production costs would be much lower than a new series or standard 2000AD / one-off Special print format.

The Regened Prog's have a noticeably high level of support on the Forum - I understand that - we all want to support our favourite publisher and their creative teams.
But c'mon - who could put their hand on their cholesterol clogged heart and say they actually want to read this stuff?

 
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 01 March, 2021, 12:31:52 PM
But c'mon - who could put their hand on their cholesterol clogged heart and say they actually want to read this stuff?

I think you will surprised how many do not mind reading this stuff including the high blood pressure club card carrying members.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Link Prime 01 March, 2021, 12:38:47 PM

I think you will surprised how many do not mind reading this stuff including the high blood pressure club card carrying members.

I'm sure, but preferable to The Out, Brink, Hope etc?

Personally, I tend to consume my comic related entertainment with strict referral to the 'Time left alive / material I want to read' equation.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: dweezil2 01 March, 2021, 12:40:26 PM
Just finished my staggered read of the Regened Prog and I give it a positive report, with some reservations.
One thing that was consistent was the excellent quality of the art, which made for a very attractive package, so major kudos to all involved.
The storytelling was slightly less consistent, but the standouts where a very good Cadet Dredd, with its enjoyably sharp digs at rampant consumerism and Mayflies.

As a concept as a whole, I am more than supportive, as anything that strives to broaden the comic's appeal and increase the readership can only be a good thing.
Contrary to what some others have proffered however, I wouldn't like the toned down violence, themes and subject matter to replace the traditional Prog's approach-I like my thrill-powerful to the max and it's clear that something like the excellent, and gory,Hookjaw reboot would not have a home in such a child friendly title.

As a quarterly experiment, however, I'm more than happy to add it to my usual 2000AD reading habits.


: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Jim_Campbell 01 March, 2021, 01:16:49 PM
Why disrupt the regular prog's flow if you could have created 4 specials during the year.

It was explicitly stated in one of the Thrillcasts, back when the Regened prog made its debut, that the distributor had said that if they wanted to put it out as a special, Rebellion would have to drop an equivalent number of the specials already on the schedule for the year.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 01 March, 2021, 01:32:25 PM
I am equally unconvinced that kid's tastes have changed too dramatically in the past 40 years, based on nothing more than first hand experience with every child in my family / circle of friends that I have ever known. Like ever.
And yet if we look at The Beano alone, that comic has changed subtly but noticeably from just a few years ago. Although the strips and artists are intact, the tone is wildly different from how it was in the middle of the last decade. Readership is up. Also, given that many adults won’t touch B+W comics now, good luck getting kids to.

Ultimately, as Jim patiently and repeatedly points out on this forum, Rebellion is limited by the realities of commerce, publishing, distribution and now also COVID. So it’s trying something, in the hope it will work. So far the result has been significant sales bumps. Quite why they’ve occurred and whether they’re sustainable, who knows? How well the collections will do, who knows?

But c'mon - who could put their hand on their cholesterol clogged heart and say they actually want to read this stuff?
I couldn’t give a stuff about Cadet Dredd. I’d be happy if it was dropped entirely. But I’d love to see a Pandora Perfect series start next week in the Prog. Dept K was superb. I’ve enjoyed some of the ‘young character’ strips enough to justify their presence (such as that initial Strontium Dog test one, which was pretty funny).

The storytelling needs to be tighter sometimes (something that’s noticeable if you compare Regened to action strips in The Phoenix) and I’d prefer it if they were scheduled before a jumping-on Prog. But I can, hand on heart, say that I’m perfectly happy reading these issues—and I like what they represent.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Link Prime 01 March, 2021, 01:35:17 PM
Why disrupt the regular prog's flow if you could have created 4 specials during the year.

It was explicitly stated in one of the Thrillcasts, back when the Regened prog made its debut, that the distributor had said that if they wanted to put it out as a special, Rebellion would have to drop an equivalent number of the specials already on the schedule for the year.

If it was that important a marketing strategy maybe they should have.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Jim_Campbell 01 March, 2021, 02:44:02 PM
If it was that important a marketing strategy maybe they should have.

Well, we've no way of knowing how that conversation went. It's entirely possible that Rebellion had every expectation that they'd be able to publish Regened as specials and the distributors' decision came as a nasty surprise, leaving them with the choice between folding Regened into the regular prog or cancelling four already-scheduled specials, for which work might already have been commissioned.

I'm not saying that's what did happen, but I've had some dealings with high street magazine distributors over the years and their position on any given day can seem baffling and capricious.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 01 March, 2021, 03:23:14 PM
Really, I think Rebellion’s damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t. I’ve seen people furiously angry that the Cor/Buster specials weren’t reprint, as if that trampled all over their memories. Frankly, I thought it was bloody great Rebellion wanted to utilise old properties and commission new work rather than taking the arguably easier way out of just offering reprint. (Hell, The Dandy frequently does that, and think how high-profile that brand still is.)

But, again, like Jim keeps saying: there are many considerations beyond just doing the ideal, which often come down to distribution and market forces. And if the sales data for Regened suggests it’s working, bar for a small but vocal minority, it seems likely it would for the time being continue.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Link Prime 01 March, 2021, 04:13:28 PM
But I can, hand on heart, say that I’m perfectly happy reading these issues—and I like what they represent.

The fact we all frequent this board means that at sometime in the past we all had the same (excellent) taste in comics.
If any of ye approaching or over the age of 50 can absorb a few Thrills from the likes of 'Finder / Keeper' then Grud bless ya. Seriously.

If it was that important a marketing strategy maybe they should have.

Well, we've no way of knowing how that conversation went. It's entirely possible that Rebellion had every expectation that they'd be able to publish Regened as specials and the distributors' decision came as a nasty surprise, leaving them with the choice between folding Regened into the regular prog or cancelling four already-scheduled specials, for which work might already have been commissioned.

Fair enough Jim, but it didn't seem to affect editorial taking the same course of action in 2021.
Although Covid could have been another contributing factor I assume.

And if the sales data for Regened suggests it’s working, bar for a small but vocal minority, it seems likely it would for the time being continue.

Sales data I can accept, "small but vocal minority", I'm not so sure.
Maybe on this forum, but for the regular readers who don't waste their spare time on here?
You'd have to wonder.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Jim_Campbell 01 March, 2021, 04:24:22 PM
Fair enough Jim, but it didn't seem to affect editorial taking the same course of action in 2021.
Although Covid could have been another contributing factor I assume.

They've sharply reduced the number of specials this year, precisely because of covid, so I'd assume it was very much a factor.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 01 March, 2021, 04:25:47 PM
Sales data I can accept, "small but vocal minority", I'm not so sure.
Maybe on this forum, but for the regular readers who don't waste their spare time on here?
You'd have to wonder.
On that point, Rebellion is a business. If something isn’t working, it would stop. Given that Regened has continued, it must be working in a manner that 2000 AD is happy with, even if some of the readers aren’t. And, yes, I’m happy with some of these strips, in the same way I’m happy reading mini-IP’s Phoenix or blazing through Usagi Yojimbo and Lumberjanes. Good comics are good comics. My main disappointment with 2000 AD over the past year hasn’t been Regened’s existence, but that we haven’t yet seen more Dept K and Pandora Perfect. (Well, that and an OS HC of The Out doesn’t yet exist, but I suspect that’ll have to stay in my daydream wish list.)
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Link Prime 01 March, 2021, 04:33:45 PM
Time will tell I guess.

If I was a betting man I'd put a coupla Bitcoin on the *current* strategy not working.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Colin YNWA 01 March, 2021, 05:03:08 PM

And yet if we look at The Beano alone, that comic has changed subtly but noticeably from just a few years ago. Although the strips and artists are intact, the tone is wildly different from how it was in the middle of the last decade. Readership is up. Also, given that many adults won’t touch B+W comics now, good luck getting kids to.


Another thing I've noticed in The Phoenix over the last year or two is the drop in the number of panels per page in a lot of strips. Whether this is to move things easier into more 'Dogman' sized volumes - see recent re-issues of Bunny vs Monkey but even more noticably in their more adventure orientated strips as well, Legacy, Mega Robo Bros and the end of Trailblazers all have 3 or 4 panels a page as a rule.

Whether this is artistic choice, listening to readers, or supporting a trade programme I won't pretend to know but there's a definiate shift.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: HeidTheBaw 01 March, 2021, 05:20:41 PM
But I can, hand on heart, say that I’m perfectly happy reading these issues—and I like what they represent.

The fact we all frequent this board means that at sometime in the past we all had the same (excellent) taste in comics.
If any of ye approaching or over the age of 50 can absorb a few Thrills from the likes of 'Finder / Keeper' then Grud bless ya. Seriously.

If it was that important a marketing strategy maybe they should have.

Well, we've no way of knowing how that conversation went. It's entirely possible that Rebellion had every expectation that they'd be able to publish Regened as specials and the distributors' decision came as a nasty surprise, leaving them with the choice between folding Regened into the regular prog or cancelling four already-scheduled specials, for which work might already have been commissioned.

Fair enough Jim, but it didn't seem to affect editorial taking the same course of action in 2021.
Although Covid could have been another contributing factor I assume.

And if the sales data for Regened suggests it’s working, bar for a small but vocal minority, it seems likely it would for the time being continue.

Sales data I can accept, "small but vocal minority", I'm not so sure.
Maybe on this forum, but for the regular readers who don't waste their spare time on here?
You'd have to wonder.

Yeah, this is anecdotal, but of the 5 people I know who read 2000ad religiously (myself included) the Regened prog is something we buy either as completionists or it’s part of our subscription. None of us enjoy reading it. It’s skipped or read and put away never to be seen again.

Personal tastes and all that, but i try and approach each one with an open mind only to leave it with the same feeling each time. This is why I’m surprised that it’s so popular on this forum.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 01 March, 2021, 06:02:39 PM
Whether this is to move things easier into more 'Dogman' sized volumes
I don’t know. I part wondered if it was down to costs at one point. It’s pretty clear The Phoenix has had to make some tough decisions during COVID (hence the uptick in not-great text content, that short period of ‘remastered’ reprint, and the way the covers are now done.

However, I’ve been told the BvM chunkies are the way forward and the existing line might cease. Personally, I’d love to see an OS HC of that series, but I guess that’ll never happen! :D
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Art 01 March, 2021, 06:30:26 PM
Bring back Oink!

(It is probably insanity and hugely impractical to bring back Oink!, also it ran for like a year so the audience is probably tiny, and I’m not sure they own the best bits of it. Still: BRING BACK OINK!)
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Colin YNWA 01 March, 2021, 07:02:17 PM
Personally, I’d love to see an OS HC of that series, but I guess that’ll never happen! :D

Sweet mother of God what I wouldn't give for that!
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Tjm86 01 March, 2021, 07:59:42 PM
Yeah, this is anecdotal, but of the 5 people I know who read 2000ad religiously (myself included) the Regened prog is something we buy either as completionists or it’s part of our subscription. None of us enjoy reading it.

Personal tastes and all that, but i try and approach each one with an open mind only to leave it with the same feeling each time. This is why I’m surprised that it’s so popular on this forum.

For me personally it is the epitome of Tooth.  It is, after all, an anthology publication.  Any given week I can find myself feeling a little unimpressed by one strip or another but that is more by the standards of the prog.

I tend to come at the Regened prog in the spirit it is intended, as something experimental to grow the prog.  When we KOS's (Knackered Old Sods) pass on it would be nice to know that Tooth will still grow and evolve.
In many respects that is precisely what it has done down through the years.

A prog slog will bring a variety of era's, from the potentially juvenile early formative years, through the early 80's as Tooth found its voice, into the years of which less spake the better and then the renaissance of the early noughties.

For me there is a growing consistency to the Regened prog.  I'd still prefer it to be spun off as a special alongside the prog.  As you say, for some of us it will still get the support of the 'old guard'.  That said, Rebellion have picked this direction for now.

At the end of the day though we are an incredibly eclectic bunch.  Perhaps that explains the support for the Regened project?  Or more likely we're just a bunch of oddballs and it might be better to ignore us completely.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Funt Solo 01 March, 2021, 09:54:32 PM
It’s obviously gened like genie. Never occurred to me it could be anything else.

Agreened.

gif
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Funt Solo 01 March, 2021, 10:16:45 PM
But c'mon - who could put their hand on their cholesterol clogged heart and say they actually want to read this stuff?

Moi.

All the complaining just comes across as curmudgeonly to me. The Regened progs are far and away much better than a lot of what's been printed in the prog over it's tenure. Erm ... The Grudge-Father, anyone?

Seems like the label "All Ages" has gotten some grumpy narcissists champing at the bit. "Call me a child, would you, sir? I've never been so insulted since a few moments ago when someone said excuse me on the elevator! Call me fat, would you, sir? I've never been so insulted since someone asked me enjoy a new idea only moment ago. Call me small-minded, would you, sir?"

Over and over again, for months. The ONLY benefit to stopping the Regened experiment would be to stop the endless complaints - but they'd just move onto how Pat should be running the comic etc. etc.



: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Magnetica 02 March, 2021, 12:16:59 AM
My eleven year old son picked up the Regened Prog without me prompting him. I think he got two thirds of the way through Cadet Dredd and didn’t read any more.

I know it’s not a statistically valid sample, but it doesn’t bode well.

And I would have thought he was the target audience.

What he does like is Dogman, Captain Underpants, Alex Rider, Harry Potter, Star Wars, MCU, Lego Stars comics, Ultimate Spider-man etc.

Oh and I also gave him Spacewarp to read and he read about as much of that as well.

But he did like Sensitive Klegg (which contains a certain scene which makes it unsuitable for children IMO).
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 02 March, 2021, 03:28:03 AM
I think about change many of us do not want change although we do not realize it our whole life is about change. We just do not realize changes since we grow into it rather than it just happens to materialise on our front doors. I will restate what I said on a previous occasion: I rather have 46 regular progs and 4 regen progs than no prog at all. Choosing not to like the regen and not reading it I believe you are going to lose out as well. I cannot wait for more Department K and Pandora Perfect (and now we can add Mayflies, Action Pact and Viva Forever to that list).
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: The Corinthian 02 March, 2021, 08:15:54 AM
But he did like Sensitive Klegg (which contains a certain scene which makes it unsuitable for children IMO).

His poetry isn't that bad.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: The Corinthian 02 March, 2021, 08:42:28 AM
I wonder how much of the animosity towards the Regened Progs is how they seem shoehorned into the weekly schedule. If a regular Prog is full of things that don't grab you that's not unexpected, that's how Tooth has been for years. If you're following a regular series and have to wait an extra week to find out what's going on with Durham Rex or if Slaine is ever going to do something interesting again to make way for a Prog full of things that don't grab you... that's still a First World Problem but a bit more understandably frustrating for regular readers.

So I also wonder how much better received Regened would be if it appeared in the natural gaps that appear as ongoing stories come to an end but before a big relaunch. I'm old enough to remember a time when Tharg used these to burn off Future Shocks, Fleisher scripts and other unloved material - remember Prog 699, the Bumper Chronos Carnival Special? - and even the most cynical among us would have to admit that a Regened Prog is far superior to these.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 02 March, 2021, 08:52:50 AM
I also think that scheduling the regen between series that are done and  dusted works much better than breaking up the flow of series. The regen's looks more like it was scheduling around quartets. There is between 7 and 12 weeks between regen issues.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: TordelBack 02 March, 2021, 10:16:28 AM
For me the flaw in many arguments (not necessarily here) is "kids don't read comics". Maybe they don't read weekly adventure/romance/humour comics bought from the newsagents like what we did, but comics are in the bestseller lists every week. Tell Dav Pilkey, Raina Telgemeier, Grace Ellis or Kohei Horikoshi that kids don't read comics, those folk shift truckloads.

Rebellion trying to carve out some territory in that market, while trying it back into their heaps of existing IP and current sales model, just makes sense. Whether the ultimate goal is a field-tested standalone comic, a pre-funded source of material for individual collections, or a broadening of the offering of the weekly (as with FTB), or all three, I think it's worthwhile.

I don't like everything about Regened, but I like a lot of it - you could certainly make a damn good comic out of the strips I have enjoyed, and I find I look forward to a slew of novelty every few months. I'm not a subber or a completionist and I still pick them up.

I don't buy the argument that a two-week break in regular stories is detrimental to 2000AD as a whole: we're comics readers FFS, we regularly put up with years between issues.  As I've said before, I think that co-ordinating Regeneds with jumping-on progs is probably a bad idea, as that really does represent a break in reading, becoming a jumping-off point.


: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: BPP 02 March, 2021, 10:22:50 AM
It’s perfectly okay not to like a comic without having formers tell you you are disingenuous or curmudgeonly.

: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 02 March, 2021, 10:27:41 AM
Heh—good point about breaks in comics. I mean: Saga.

As for kids not reading comics, that’s of course bollocks. Graphic novels and manga are doing well. But traditional comics aren’t, in terms of publication numbers—although it was nice to see The Beano’s ABC up this year, despite COVID. (Reportedly, subscriptions are way up.)

Being a parent of a youngling, I still think a lot of the issues with comics come down to awareness. I’m an older parent of a 6yo, given that I’m in my 40s. I grew up at the tail end of the comics for boys boom—and by then comics for girls had largely vanished. So for me, comics were a natural thing—part of life. Someone in their 30s just wouldn’t have had the same experience. Someone in their 20s might not care for that at all. Now add to that societal dislike for comics as a whole, some teachers arguing they are not proper reading (FFS) and comics being reframed as ‘Marvel’ and you have big problems.

I’m not sure what the solution is, or even if there is one. I do occasionally try and put the word out there on social media when I find something good or as an occasional reminder about the existence of properties. Recently, The Phoenix was doing SIX issues for a quid. Why wouldn’t you at least TRY that for your child? (Heck, even as an adult, that’d be worth it for Jamie Smart’s stuff and Squid Bits.) Similarly, The Beano is £1.50 a week when you go for a direct debit. I realise not everyone can afford that, but many can—and it’s way better value than bags full of yet more plastic shite. But it’s getting people to find this stuff and realise it’s quality reading matter that’s the problem.

In a sense, perhaps Regened commercially works now because it’s part of the existing run and can therefore be handed on to children, rather than something you’d have to seek out.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: TordelBack 02 March, 2021, 10:30:22 AM
It’s perfectly okay not to like a comic without having formers tell you you are disingenuous or curmudgeonly.

This is also true.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Barrington Boots 02 March, 2021, 11:13:56 AM
It’s perfectly okay not to like a comic without having formers tell you you are disingenuous or curmudgeonly.

This. A lot of the objections to these issues have been reasonably made - I certainly haven't seen the sort of vitriol that's on other platforms here - so I'm not overjoyed at some of the generalisations chucked about at those who aren't enjoying the Regened stuff.

For what it's worth Regened did make me consider my subscription vs buying issues individually, but decided it's still worthwhile. I'd rather have a continued prog than no prog and if this is what it takes for that then so be it.
What's more of an issue to me is how divisive this has been to the fanbase tbh.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: MumboJimbo 02 March, 2021, 12:11:10 PM
It’s perfectly okay not to like a comic without having formers tell you you are disingenuous or curmudgeonly.

...or a grumpy narcissist. If people don’t like the Regened progs, then they should be able to express that here (as long as it’s constructive and not personal attacks on the creators). Seems to be a lot more ad hominems and cod psychology being directed at them than vice versa. You can be open to change in general but dislike a specific change, you know.

Anyway, as I’ve said above I’ve gradually become open to the idea but still have some concerns over the execution of a few of the scripts. I’m sure Rebellion anticipated that this would be controversial step, and so a bit of discussion here seems a good way to tackle that and see if there’s any consensus about what is or isn’t working. I do think you should at least give them a read, though, if you want people to take your point of view seriously. There has definitely been an evolution over the 6(?) issues, in particular a move to fewer and longer strips which has helped, in my opinion. So it’s worth trying the latest issues even if you didn’t like the early ones.

 I can’t for the life of me see what’s so exciting about Department K or Pandora Perfect, and I’m not looking forward to them joining the regular prog to be honest. I’d prefer to keep the Regened and non-Regened stuff separate myself. We could end up with a prog like the early 90s where is trying to please all ages. And before you say, “that’s what “All Ages” means, duh”, it kind of doesn’t really these day, it means one age notch below Young Adult. What I mean is when we had stuff like Firekind next to Fleischer Rogue Trooper - probably not a huge intersection of people who enjoyed both. And history could repeat itself with Department K being in the same prog as the Fall of Deadworld. 
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 02 March, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
I’d prefer to keep the Regened and non-Regened stuff separate myself.

That is also a valid point. If you look at something like Full Tilt Boogie which transitioned to the regular prog and it worked. I can see that Mayflies will also work in the current prog.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: BPP 02 March, 2021, 12:43:06 PM
I’d prefer to keep the Regened and non-Regened stuff separate myself.

That is also a valid point. If you look at something like Full Tilt Boogie which transitioned to the regular prog and it worked. I can see that Mayflies will also work in the current prog.

Counter - I don’t think Full Tilt Boogie worked at all. For me, it was basically Saga meets The Incal with shallow uninteresting teen characters. The art was pretty nice but it was a Boom comic and I don’t buy Boom comics.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 02 March, 2021, 01:10:57 PM
And history could repeat itself with Department K being in the same prog as the Fall of Deadworld.
Yet the Meg has often mixed entertaining humour and outright horror. Heck, 2000 AD has done the same across multiple eras. Some stuff from Regened would be very out of place, but I Dept K has crossover potential. (I’m less convinced Pandora Perfect would work in the Prog, but nonetheless want to see more somewhere.)
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: TordelBack 02 March, 2021, 01:14:30 PM
What I mean is when we had stuff like Firekind next to Fleischer Rogue Trooper - probably not a huge intersection of people who enjoyed both.

Good example!

I thought FTB was delightful, and fitted well into my prog, but going forward I too would be happier to see the Regened success-stories staying there and strengthening its own brand.

For the record, it is of course the right of everyone to legitimately dislike stuff they are paying for (Hershey, I'm looking at you), and to say so. In this case I think the stronger reactions to people criticising the current Regened model come from (a). Seeing creators being rubbished (not really the case in many posts here), and (b). a frustrated "well what do you suggest Rebellion do to grow the business? " reaction, which I've been guilty of myself.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 02 March, 2021, 01:49:22 PM
It will always be the case one person's plonker is another person's joy.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: MumboJimbo 02 March, 2021, 02:22:04 PM
The obvious problem of having stuff aimed squarely at kids in the regular prog, is that the rest of the prog will have adult content which you might not want your kids exposed to. That’s the fundamental difference between having something light, but still targeted for an adult audience, like Survival Geeks, and having something like Pandora Perfect. You can’t really pass on a copy to your daughter and say, “have a read of this! But only pages 9-14”.

I loved Full Tilt Boogie when it started as it was unlike anything else in the prog, and the originality was refreshing. Once I’d become accustomed to its weirdness though, I have to agree with BPP and say I found the story a little lacking compared to most things in the prog. If it had stayed within the Regened Cinematic Universe, I probably would have been more accepting of its YA remit and ended up liking it more for what it was. As it is, I don’t think it was a great fit for the regular prog, personally.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Barrington Boots 02 March, 2021, 02:32:41 PM
I found FTB refreshing in the prog, but I thought it would have been a better fit sticking with the Regened issues where it would have been a highlight.
I guess it was moved to get a full series out of it, rather than what I guess would have be a series of quarterly one-offs?
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Jim_Campbell 02 March, 2021, 02:50:24 PM
You can’t really pass on a copy to your daughter and say, “have a read of this! But only pages 9-14”.

I suspect this accounts for the speed with which FTB moved to TPB, which is by far the preferred format for the YA audience. In those terms, the Regened progs kind of make sense as a quarterly 'sampler' with breakout hits getting serialised in the Prog and then quickly bundled up into a TPB for wider consumption.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: BPP 02 March, 2021, 02:59:36 PM
You can’t really pass on a copy to your daughter and say, “have a read of this! But only pages 9-14”.

I suspect this accounts for the speed with which FTB moved to TPB, which is by far the preferred format for the YA audience. In those terms, the Regened progs kind of make sense as a quarterly 'sampler' with breakout hits getting serialised in the Prog and then quickly bundled up into a TPB for wider consumption.

Good point.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Funt Solo 02 March, 2021, 03:22:34 PM
It’s perfectly okay not to like a comic without having formers tell you you are disingenuous or curmudgeonly.

It absolutely is okay to not like a comic. My sweeping use of curmudgeonly was in response to some sweeping statements of negativity. When someone describes a professionally produced, high quality production by referring to it as "this stuff" it raises my hackles. Also, sometimes I'm reading commentary from outside the board, which is often less sanguine.

I realize two wrongs don't make a right, but I do find some (just some) of the negative positions on the Regened project to be clearly partisan (decrying the entire production as being of no worth), and really it's that sort of position (where they're incredulous that anyone could possibly like it) that I rail against with accusations of said positions being curmudgeonly. I think it's fair comment.

Of course, yes, it's okay to not like a comic. But it's also okay to like it, so when people tell me I can't like it, or that I must be pretending, or that it's wholly, demonstrably terrible - I will probably react in kind.

who is this stuff for?
But i wouldn’t hand this to anyone I was trying to get into comics ... they’d never want to read a comic again.
who could put their hand on their ... heart and say they actually want to read this stuff?
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Sean SD 04 March, 2021, 01:09:35 AM
My Top 3 for Prog 2220

1st - Mayflies - nice work by Carroll plus Coleby and Teague's work keeps it gritty looking
2nd - Viva Forever - this would work for me as an ongoing
3rd - Future Shock - not so subtle message but well done I thought

Regened - as in wearing a pair of 'jeans'

Lol at Carroll's Regened prononciation by Tharg as in 'Reginald with no 'L''

aside from this prog the Regened strip I remember most is Finder/Keeper, so more Finder/Keeper pls

: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: HeidTheBaw 04 March, 2021, 09:23:28 AM
For me the flaw in many arguments (not necessarily here) is "kids don't read comics". Maybe they don't read weekly adventure/romance/humour comics bought from the newsagents like what we did, but comics are in the bestseller lists every week. Tell Dav Pilkey, Raina Telgemeier, Grace Ellis or Kohei Horikoshi that kids don't read comics, those folk shift truckloads.

Rebellion trying to carve out some territory in that market, while trying it back into their heaps of existing IP and current sales model, just makes sense. Whether the ultimate goal is a field-tested standalone comic, a pre-funded source of material for individual collections, or a broadening of the offering of the weekly (as with FTB), or all three, I think it's worthwhile.

I don't like everything about Regened, but I like a lot of it - you could certainly make a damn good comic out of the strips I have enjoyed, and I find I look forward to a slew of novelty every few months. I'm not a subber or a completionist and I still pick them up.

I don't buy the argument that a two-week break in regular stories is detrimental to 2000AD as a whole: we're comics readers FFS, we regularly put up with years between issues.  As I've said before, I think that co-ordinating Regeneds with jumping-on progs is probably a bad idea, as that really does represent a break in reading, becoming a jumping-off point.

I think it’s fair if Rebellion are tying to gain a stronghold into that market in order to attract the kids who are reading that stuff across to their own products. The issue I have is using 2000ad to do it.
If 2000ad loses its identity then it’s no longer 2000ad.

Some folk seem to have an issue with this viewpoint from older readers but at the end of the day, for me personally, I’ve bought 2000ad for the last 30 odd years and have long been a subscriber. That’s a long time to support the comic and if starts to develop into something we no longer have an interest in reading them I think it’s fine to be upset with that. It’s a big part of my life, it’s always been there and I want to enjoy it.

I don’t like the regened progs but I can tolerate subsidising them 4 times a year as part of my subscription.
Once the storylines start to eek their way into the weekly then when it becomes more of an issue.

From the last few years I read the prog cover to cover, with the exception of Skip Tracer which I just look at the nice pictures and move on and Full Tilt Boogie which I found completely unreadable.

There’s always going to be the odd strip that doesn’t work for us in an anthology and that’s ok.
As long as it remains the exception.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: TordelBack 04 March, 2021, 10:52:23 AM
=
There’s always going to be the odd strip that doesn’t work for us in an anthology and that’s ok.
As long as it remains the exception.

Completely agree - there is often (though not always) one that doesn't match my own tastes, and that's part of the rough and tumble of anthology life. I have noted that my also-ran is frequently others' hacked-up filly, and vice-versa, and that's fine too.  But I don't see any sign in the general line-up that there is any overall change of style: if anything strips like Brink, Thistlebone, The Out and Hershey have injected a more mature tone, with slower pacing and more consideration of the impacts of violence than the mega-death of old. 
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 04 March, 2021, 10:58:06 AM
Also, it’s not like something more light-hearted hasn’t been the way of the Prog—and even the Meg—for decades. Survival Geeks had a years-long run that only recently ended. I don’t see something like Dept K poisoning the Prog for older readers, and it could even provide a useful change of pace and extra slice of variety, depending on what it’s run against. (TordelBack’s point about mature content is interesting and, I think, on the money. There have been several series that take a more considered approach, which really doesn’t point towards any ‘dumbing down’ of the Prog nor aligning it with a younger audience.)
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 04 March, 2021, 11:06:05 AM
This is where the prog in general has been really good with each run sporting a great variety of strips and different themed series. This is one reason why I believe this regen issue was good since it did have that variety in stories.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Dog Deever 31 March, 2021, 09:05:07 PM
I'm just catching up on all this debate now, so if it's already been covered fair enough-
what about the prospect of using the Meg floppies for Regened stuff?
There was long debate of old as to what to put in the floppies anyway and it would cede potentially more issues in a year than confining the Regene to something like specials.
If there are too many issues/ pages to fill, then there's all that other Treasury of British Comics IP to be mined as well (not just reprint, although I don't have any problem with that either, individual taste allowing).

Page count could be reduced to bring production costs down, allowing some of that budget to be spent on new material while also being subsidised by occasional reprint material and the Meg itself.

I don't have any insight into the viability of these ideas or if they've already been thought of (I would assume they have in some form at some point)

And it's OBVIOUSLY 'Re-gened' rhymes with 'Knee-Spleened' FFS- a Rogue Trooper bio-chip reference to an old dead-thing being given a new body.
Anyone who says otherwise is clearly wrong - Please form an orderly queue for the liquidation vats.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Goosegash 31 March, 2021, 11:15:47 PM
I'm just catching up on all this debate now, so if it's already been covered fair enough-
what about the prospect of using the Meg floppies for Regened stuff?
There was long debate of old as to what to put in the floppies anyway and it would cede potentially more issues in a year than confining the Regene to something like specials.
If there are too many issues/ pages to fill, then there's all that other Treasury of British Comics IP to be mined as well (not just reprint, although I don't have any problem with that either, individual taste allowing).

Page count could be reduced to bring production costs down, allowing some of that budget to be spent on new material while also being subsidised by occasional reprint material and the Meg itself.

I don't have any insight into the viability of these ideas or if they've already been thought of (I would assume they have in some form at some point)

And it's OBVIOUSLY 'Re-gened' rhymes with 'Knee-Spleened' FFS- a Rogue Trooper bio-chip reference to an old dead-thing being given a new body.
Anyone who says otherwise is clearly wrong - Please form an orderly queue for the liquidation vats.

Err, so...if Regened takes over the floppy, are the kids supposed to be buying the Megazine first so they can read it, which also means they wouldn't be able to flick through the contents beforehand and thus have no idea what they were getting? What do they do with the Meg itself, chuck it in the bin? Or are we assuming that adults buying the Meg already will give the floppy to their kids?

I can see a few potential drawbacks in this idea.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Dog Deever 01 April, 2021, 02:03:04 AM

Err, so...if Regened takes over the floppy, are the kids supposed to be buying the Megazine first so they can read it, which also means they wouldn't be able to flick through the contents beforehand and thus have no idea what they were getting? What do they do with the Meg itself, chuck it in the bin? Or are we assuming that adults buying the Meg already will give the floppy to their kids?

I can see a few potential drawbacks in this idea.

Well yeah, I was assuming that the adult would hand over the floppies to their kids- I mean, is that entirely different from the adults handing over their Regened to their kids that don't otherwise read 2000ad?
Or is the strategy solely to sell the Regened issues to people who aren't the target demographic of the Regened issue?
Or to sell the Regened issue to the target demographic who doesn't buy the comic normally in the hope that they might then buy the normal comic that isn't aimed at them and continue to buy it until the next Regened?
The very obvious drawbacks here are that nobody is really getting what they want despite shelling out for it- not the YA's not the OAPs... or are we expecting that only the YA's will buy the 'Regened' while the OAP's buy the normal Prog?

I get the intention, I just don't get the strategy- it doesn't make any sense to me and does have the feel of plans being heavily compromised.
Jim has far greater inside knowledge of how these things tend to work (I have none) and in the absence of hard facts his earlier observations on the possibility of the Regened issues having originally been planned as 'specials' seem entirely plausible to me.

So if it is broadly true that the curent approach is a compromise on 'optimum' (the market being able to take a brand new comic aimed at younger readers from the Rebellion stable without undue risk) then it's hardly without flaw itself.
Any compromise, by the nature of compromise, means acceptance of flaws compared to 'ideal'- it's just a question of comparison of differing options, each of which will have 'advantages' and 'drawbacks' against each other- none of which means that any of the options aren't 'flawed', they are compromises after all.

I'm not denying any drawbacks to The Floppy Strategy, of course there are- price tag being an easy one and that annoying Meg issue hanging around the bag- the thing that might placate the Angry-Old-Codger-With-No-Kids-To-Give-Their-Kid-Shit-To, by giving them something for the money they spend.
Unlike the situation with Regened where they are expected to stump up for something that isn't actually for them, then being attacked for not liking the-thing-that-wasn't-really-made-for-them-that-they-were-expected-to-just-buy-anyway.
Or they could just not buy it and screw everything up for everyone in the long run, and/ or sit outside throwing faeces while shouting...

There might even be advantage in the fact that it would also already be a 'separate thing' which could in theory (in some distant Utopian future) be split away from the Meg to form a comic in it's own right, it's almost a comic-within-a-comic already. That whole stylistic/experimentation/continuity-shaping and branding processes could take place under Megazine subsidy so that when the time was right you're ready to rock anyway, like a 'Stalking Horse Comic' type thing. Sounds great in theory but I freely admit "I'm not the 'details' guy"...

Then there's also that uninterrupted monthly continuity that Regened doesn't have (nor does the Prog at the moment either... because of Regened). I would place that 'established schedule' in the advantage column too.

Just thinking out loud really (though quietly and by typing), so if yez have already dissected similar thoughts it's fine.

I'm only just catching up, as I say so I'm not sure exactly how divisive it's been- just what's said in this thread and a wee bit of 'discussions' from fb that leaked into my feed. My attention has been elsewhere and my on-the-line presence has been limited and sporadic for a good while now, but it certainly seems like the current strategy is not without drawbacks either, given earlier comments about it being 'divisive'.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 01 April, 2021, 05:17:29 AM
I think the current release schedule for the regen prog is the most financially viable. Personally, I would not mind if the regen is released as a floppie like the encyclopaedia is currently (once every two months). At the end, the model is chosen which brings the most value.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Jim_Campbell 01 April, 2021, 07:24:20 AM
what about the prospect of using the Meg floppies for Regened stuff?

I'm not sure how the content is paid for if the comic is being given away free with the Megazine? Also, the Meg sells fewer copies than the prog, or at least has always done so historically.

So, instead of 2000AD actually receiving a sales bump with every Regened issue, Rebellion would lose a wedge of cash on each special and reach a smaller audience. I'm pretty sure this is the reason why they don't do it as a bagged floppy with the Meg.

There's two real takeaways from my thinking (informed by general experience of working for high-street-distributed publications and in YA comics, not from any inside info on Rebellion's strategy):

1) There really is no practical alternative in current market conditions. If you accept that attempting to broaden the readership is, in principle, a good idea, then it's basically this or nothing. I'm aware that a non-trivial number of people would prefer 'nothing'.

2) It makes a lot of sense if you think of the Regened progs as quarterly 'samplers' for all-ages material, with break-out hits moving to a full series in the prog, which then gets quickly bundled up into a TPB (as with Full Tilt Boogie) — the format vastly preferred by the target audience.

It's incredibly easy to lose a fuckton of money on a new product in the publishing business. Given that it was explicitly stated in a Thrillcast that the original plan was for the first Regened issue(s) to be done as standalone special(s) but was nixed by the distributors, the current strategy is very smart business.

There's no doubt in my mind that in an ideal world Rebellion would prefer the Regened progs to be quarterly specials. They'd be an additional revenue stream on top of the income from 2000AD — why wouldn't they? I imagine, somewhere down the line in a post-Covid world, they probably will be.

: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: TordelBack 01 April, 2021, 07:36:16 AM
...quickly bundled up into a TPB (as with Full Tilt Boogie) — the format vastly preferred by the target audience.

My sole insight into this issue is this very thing. Kids still love comics. But they mostly buy/get bought/share book-sized comics.

I think DD's perspective coming into this -cough- debate is very useful, as it emphasises that none of the choices made are necessarily the obvious ones. For myself, I have to trust that Tharg and Rebellion have run numbers I have no access to,  and as long as I broadly enjoy the results (I do), I'm on side.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 01 April, 2021, 09:51:44 AM
All of publishing involves a certain amount of compromise. People have to remember there is finite money and, as Jim said, issues with what distributors will accept. Beyond that, we also now have a pandemic to contend with. Bunging Regened in the Meg is the worst of all worlds. It eats into profitability, lowers reach, and doesn’t boost sales. The notion of throwing in a load of reprint doesn’t help either, because, frankly, most kids couldn’t give two hoots about reading comics from the 1970s. They want stuff made for them, today.

The ideal would be for Regened to be its own thing, but, as Jim explained, that’s just not viable at present, for a range of reasons. So we end up with the current strategy of quarterly releases that can then be compiled into trades, in the hope of expanding 2000 AD’s readership. The negative is that some old farts whine about these issues. The positives are an uptick in sales and the potential for more people to start reading Rebellion publications.

As for kids loving comics, it’s pretty clear traditional strategy is dead. The current generation will probably be the last to read traditional comics. It’s a pity, because I see people online trying to figure out how to create a British Dog Man, and yet British tradition has been in variety and anthology. Perhaps that format doesn’t hold enough interest. My take remains that parents just don’t (in enough numbers) realise these things exist and aren’t prepared to invest in a weekly subscription. I find that very sad, not least when I see the sheer joy my kid has when her comics arrive—and how when we say good morning to her and she frequently has a floor covered in comics she’s been re-reading for the nth time.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 01 April, 2021, 10:13:51 AM
I want to read the prog until I expire from this plain of existence so if the current model is the way forward than I can life with it. In my perfect world we would have a regular weekly prog and a regen weekly prog.

The bottom line is that more children should start reading even if comics is that media. With the regen prog they have a window into the world of 2000AD.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Jim_Campbell 01 April, 2021, 10:22:48 AM
The ideal would be for Regened to be its own thing

I think one subtle but incredibly valuable aspect of this is the establishment of 'Regened' as a sub-brand. One of the oft-raised (and pretty valid) criticisms of the Regened issues is that 2000AD instantly reverts to business-as-usual the following week, with ultraviolence, real-world swearing, and the odd bit of nudity.

Having 'Regened' as an all-ages brand — potentially a publishing imprint once there's enough material to start calling the trades a 'line' — solves the problem of demarcation between the regular, 'grown up' 2000AD and Meg, and more all-age-appropriate material.

Again, in an ideal world, I imagine Rebellion would have liked this strategy to have worked faster and for them to already be at the hypothetical point I describe, but in an environment where we're one spike in the 'R' number or a new covid variant away from another lockdown and all retail outlets getting closed down again, slow and steady seems like a very sensible approach.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 01 April, 2021, 10:57:05 AM
The bottom line is that more children should start reading even if comics is that media.
I’ll go further than that—there should be no ‘even’ about it. Comics as a medium should not be considered lesser. That’s true in adult form. Yes, there’s a lot of tat, but that just as true for prose and, frankly, even non-fiction. But that’s arguably even more the case for kids.

The youngling is coming up 7. We have, between us, waded through a lot of truly terrible books. Picture books, in particular, have a level of editing that wouldn’t be remotely acceptable in modern children’s comics. Books are frequently packed full of errors and typos, and littered with a kind of sexism and classism that is at times genuinely shocking. (Top tip: stay clear of books penned by certain celebs.) Also, many are just not that imaginative.

The Beano is formulaic and too reliant on word puns—too much so, in my opinion—but is still frequently far beyond equivalent book fare for the under-7s. The Phoenix is often even stronger, with a diverse mix of story types (including Jamie Smart’s brilliantly anarchic creations) and some genuinely clever inroads into classic stories by way of Corpse Talk. And that’s all before you consider graphic novels like Hilda and all the Brownstone books.

Certainly, kids shouldn’t just read comics—and mini IP doesn’t. But I wish more kids read them. They are fun, interesting, varied and provide a very regular way to ingest new stories, challenge vocabulary and spark the imagination.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Dog Deever 02 April, 2021, 02:15:21 AM
I'm not sure how the content is paid for if the comic is being given away free with the Megazine? Also, the Meg sells fewer copies than the prog, or at least has always done so historically.

So, instead of 2000AD actually receiving a sales bump with every Regened issue, Rebellion would lose a wedge of cash on each special and reach a smaller audience. I'm pretty sure this is the reason why they don't do it as a bagged floppy with the Meg.

Well, I was working off the premise that the floppy isn't free- it's cheap and it may seem like a hair split, but the Meg went up by £1 when the floppy appeared, ergo £1 of the cost of your Meg is for the floppy.
I understand that it's only able to be that cheap because it uses reprint rather than original material and I'd assume that it costs less than £1 to produce otherwise there isn't any reason for it to have been initiated in the first place, let alone stayed there for some years now. Obviously, I don't have data or anything but I figure they have to be making 'something' out of the floppy or it would no longer exist.

If the production costs of the floppy were cut (by, for example, reducing page count) it might make each 'issue' more profitable which might in turn allow a modest budget for some new material added to reprint. That was kind of where I was thinking the 'sweet cashola' might be. It wouldn't even necessarily have to be 'every floppy', it could just be 'some' with the option of expanding if such a move did bring in more readers.

I also thought that there might be a larger consumer-will to support that kind of move where the buyer still actually gets something they want for their quids (The Meg), it might even encourage a few existing 2k customers to pick up the Meg as well to support the initiative (it's not inherently implausible that such hypothetical people might even have some kids and see it as a way to get them into the comic).

Granted- that's a lot of 'mights', but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that it wouldn't bring new readers in, though I have no evidence to say that it would either. There are risks but there are always risks in business.
I fully appreciate I am not really in any position to evaluate the potential effectiveness of any of what I've said, and acknowledge that there are disadvantages and flaws which could be a barrier to the approach, or at least require more specialised analysis than I'm capable of.
But the current Regened approach is also not without flaws- perhaps the level of resistance was not anticipated and I say that not really knowing what has or hasn't been said by whom and how much heat there's actually been, though I have seen some (and been in some) board spats before, so I'm using my imagination without any concrete idea of the 'popcorn rating' of this one.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: broodblik 02 April, 2021, 05:36:21 AM
The bigger question to ask if the regen is clubbed with the meg is will parents buy this ? I am talking about those parents that do not follow the prog. Plus another factor the regen prog when it is displayed on stands are the front cover and if it parts of the meg will be lashed on too the back. You loose your display power. Do the reverse and some folks will not know that it is the meg and not buy it.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: TordelBack 02 April, 2021, 08:44:21 AM
I suspect the deal with the floppy is (a). Adding value* to the Meg cheaply without stuffing it with reprint (again); (b). An ongoing way of prepping material for less obvious digital/collected release* while spreading the cost into the Meg's monthly budget; and a lesser (c). Addressing our increasingly shortened memories wrt returning strips.

Swapping Regened into this slot definitely hits some of those notes, but I think the loss of any visible presence works against its own aims.

It's worth thinking about how long the Floppy programme has been going - other than going monthly has any Meg retooling (Gold, creator slot, cough Necropolis reprint?) lasted this long? That seems to indicate success.


*I find the cost of the Meg has always been outside the realm of casual purchase, but if I'm getting a chunk of SinDex or Treasury or whatever it always seems like a better bet.
** I'm thinking here of how much of the Hachette collection must have been sitting print-ready on a harddrive as a consequence.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: IndigoPrime 02 April, 2021, 09:19:27 AM
I don’t have any direct insight into the Rebellion piggy bank nor any of its strategy. But I have been in publishing for close to 20 years now, and so have a reasonable grasp on how things work. When the Meg’s price went up by £1, that won’t have been to pay for the floppy. That will have been about the overall viability of the publication and another attempt to make it profitable and stable.

Generally speaking, paper is cheap and new content is not. This is something a lot of people don’t tend to realise—not least when you see people complaining about digital comics not being dirt cheap, arguing that there’s no paper nor any distribution costs, or folks who demand comics revert to cheaper paper as if that would suddenly make The Beano cost only 50p. (This is a VERY regular suggestion on various UK comics groups in Facebook.) It’s the new content that eats into your budget.

With the Meg, if the floppy was cut, my guess is the cover price wouldn’t change at all. If it did drop, it wouldn’t be by anywhere near £1. For the most part, the Floppy contains content that is going to be used elsewhere. Occasionally, we get some remastered content, but I would bet creating that is still significantly cheaper than putting a load of new content into that bundled magazine. The floppy’s value is primarily perceived value: think of the ‘free gifts’ on children’s magazines—this is in a similar space, only not horribly obnoxious. Like TordelBack says, that the Mag hasn’t switched formats yet again suggests the current incarnation has found a kind of sweet spot.

If Regened was moved to the Meg, I suspect you’d still get people complaining about it, and you’ve the added problems of 1) the more adult-oriented comic now being home to a sister publication that’s even further from the Meg’s positioning than 2000 AD’s, and 2) a total lack of newsstand visibility/access. Both of those things have the potential to reduce sales, and neither would likely increase it.

From a publishing standpoint, the ideal remains an entirely separate and new publication. But that ideal results in a potential six-figure hit if things don’t work. It relies on distributors being on-board AND the readership being there AND us not being in the middle of a pandemic. So 2000 AD has gone for a compromise where it gets a sales bump once a quarter and material that’s subsequently bundled into trades that might give it a foothold in the YA market. (Another potential plus is series considered strong enough to spin out into the Prog, which can also then target YA and possibly adult readers as well when collected.) The negative impact is old farts grumbling, but I’d wager they are relatively few in number but loud of voice.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Jim_Campbell 02 April, 2021, 09:52:11 AM
The negative impact is old farts grumbling, but I’d wager they are relatively few in number but loud of voice.

I suspect this is very much the case, too. I don't think there's enough slack in 2000AD's circulation for Rebellion to continue with a strategy that was costing them sales in any significant numbers, so I think you're right… it's probably a vocal but very small minority.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Jim_Campbell 02 April, 2021, 10:10:00 AM
I think you're right… it's probably a vocal but very small minority.

To clarify: this is not to suggest that that minority isn't entitled to hold that view. They pays their money, just like everyone else, and if they don't like it then they're perfectly entitled to complain about it.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Tjm86 02 April, 2021, 12:33:14 PM

With the Meg, if the floppy was cut, my guess is the cover price wouldn’t change at all. If it did drop, it wouldn’t be by anywhere near £1. For the most part, the Floppy contains content that is going to be used elsewhere. [...]

From a publishing standpoint, the ideal remains an entirely separate and new publication. But that ideal results in a potential six-figure hit if things don’t work. It relies on distributors being on-board AND the readership being there AND us not being in the middle of a pandemic. So 2000 AD has gone for a compromise where it gets a sales bump once a quarter and material that’s subsequently bundled into trades that might give it a foothold in the YA market.

These are all fair points.  Personally I've rarely been bowled over by the floppies but I get their purpose.  I also appreciate that there are folks who haven't been around with Tooth forever and a day (even in these parts) and will benefit from a lot of the content that is reproduced.

For me it is great when they experiment with the broader back-catalogue that they now own.  There is much that probably won't really be commercially viable even in the nostalgia market but its worth an airing to see how much interest there is.  So overall I go with it as a reasonable compromise compared to the old day when it was part of the meg itself.

As for Regened, for the most part what has been offered has been worth reading.  If I'm honest I'd have bought it anyway and I'm probably not alone in that regard.  I guess the other advantage of keeping it as part of the regular schedule rather than as a special / standalone is that it cuts down on the effort of trying to persuade the likes of Smiths (pretty much the only newsagent left in a lot of places) to carry it.  As part of 'normal' programming it just rolls over without any fuss.

Also worth thinking about some of the issues with Regened and then just pausing and thinking about the 90's ... you know, just to put things in perspective?  (Crusade for instance ....)   :o
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: scrotnig 02 April, 2021, 02:07:17 PM
The negative impact is old farts grumbling, but I’d wager they are relatively few in number but loud of voice.

I suspect this is very much the case, too. I don't think there's enough slack in 2000AD's circulation for Rebellion to continue with a strategy that was costing them sales in any significant numbers, so I think you're right… it's probably a vocal but very small minority.
As a fairly "old fart", and subscriber for longer than I can even remember now, I love the regened issues in their own right, and I think it's a great long term strategy to try and build an audience for when old farts like me aren't around any more.

Long may it continue.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: Link Prime 07 April, 2021, 11:06:13 AM
The negative impact is old farts grumbling, but I’d wager they are relatively few in number but loud of voice.

I suspect this is very much the case, too. I don't think there's enough slack in 2000AD's circulation for Rebellion to continue with a strategy that was costing them sales in any significant numbers, so I think you're right… it's probably a vocal but very small minority.

Or looking at it another way - it could be banked upon that enough long term readers will suck it up / shrug their shoulders rather than have 4 gaps per year in their unbroken collection spanning 30 - 40 years.

The day you start underestimating nerd obsession is the day George McFly knocks you out cold.
: Re: Prog 2220 Regened: Earth-Shattering
: DrJomster 06 May, 2021, 02:01:11 PM
Playing catch up with my progs in a big way and have just discovered ELEVEN pages of discussion!

Some interesting comments from all sides and I think shows this forum to be a rather nice part of the internet.

For my part, the prog is an anthology and regened is an extension of this, but with an eye to a wider mix, new TPBs and, crucially, the future. Plus, it’s just getting better and better.

Some of it, I’m looking at you Mayflies, is quite on the border of regened and the normal prog, which is an interesting development.

Anyway, things are definitely on the up in my book, so I’m on board.