Whats everyone reading?

[Dandontdare]

Also, if anyone has doubts as to how much fun this book is, it contains the following quote from Geoffrey Hughes:

"The days when the dandelion could be called the pissabed, a heron could be called a shitecrow and the windhover could be called the windfucker have passed away with the exuberant phallic advertisement of the codpiece."

He never used to come out with this sort of stuff when he was in Coronation St.

[shaolin_monkey]

Personally, I just like that someone is using big words to prove what I've been saying for years: things are not as shit as they used to be.

It is interesting to see homicides are significantly higher in England/UK in the 20th century, compared to the 1900s.  That would lend credence to my suspicion that things are, in fact, worse.

Always the optimist, me.   

[shaolin_monkey]

The wench bit is a paraphrased quote borrowed from a Marlowe quote in an Inspector Morse book, and later from Sandman.  Don't mind me, too much cider, not enough sleep.  One of my bad days.

And there was me thinking you were quoting William Burroughs!  I thought it was from 'Dr Benway Operates':

Did I ever tell you about the time I performed an appendectomy with a rusty sardine can? And once I was caught short without instrument one and removed a uterine tumor with my teeth. That was in the Upper Effendi, and besides...the wench is dead."

[TordelBack]

That was in the Upper Effendi, and besides...the wench is dead."

Burroughs (and Gaiman) is also paraphrasing Marlowe's Jew of Malta: "Thou hast committed fornication: but that was in another country, and besides, the wench is dead".  Wikipedia informs me that TS Eliot, PD James, Hemmingway and even Pratchett have used or abused the same line: 

...With reference to Granny Weatherwax's girlhood: "But that was a long time ago, in the past (which is another country). And besides, the bitch is . . . older."

But I got it from Morse.

As to your pessimism, look at the graph again - it's using a logarithmic scale, and the variation or 'uptick' in the later 20th C England is absolutely miniscule, a change in the region of 1 extra homicide death in 200,000 (and examined in greater detail elsewhere).

[Frank]

It is interesting to see homicides are significantly higher in England/UK in the 20th century, compared to the 1900s.  That would lend credence to my suspicion that things are, in fact, worse.

Not during your lifetime:

[TordelBack]

And note that that's absolute numbers of homicides there, and England and Wales have something over 3 million more people than they had in 1980.  Bloody immigrants and welfare-babies, bringing down the murder rate even further.  Cheek is what it is, taking column inches out the mouths of starving journos.

[Theblazeuk]

Even without Shipman, people went futsie in 03/04 it seems.

I'm not sure how much credence I can give to the previous graph though. What kind of homicide statistics can there possibly be for the 1200s to at least the late 1700s?

[TordelBack]

I'm not sure how much credence I can give to the previous graph though. What kind of homicide statistics can there possibly be for the 1200s to at least the late 1700s?

You are of course right never to take a graph or any statistic at face value: as everyone knows, 75% of them are made up.   

However, this is one of literally dozens of similar graphs in the Pinker book, exploring the data from different angles, and the sources are fully detailed there.  Much of it comes from the work of historians like Cockburn and criminologists like Eisner on court records, hence it only begins with the start of obsessive record keeping by the Normans.  I am a little nervous of the failure to really get into the methodologies behind these secondary sources, but the thrust of the numbers is overwhelming.  For Pinker to be wrong his figures have to be consistently out by a factor of 50 or even 100.

My advice: read the book, follow-up on your doubts and check the sources, but I'd be surprised if you could sustain them.

[Frank]

And note that that's absolute numbers of homicides there, and England and Wales have something over 3 million more people than they had in 1980.  Bloody immigrants and welfare-babies, bringing down the murder rate even further.  Cheek is what it is, taking column inches out the mouths of starving journos.

The report I took that graph from includes an interesting sidebar from the BBC's home affairs correspondent:

"The fall in homicides is quite remarkable - and does not appear to be a statistical fluke. Statisticians say the figures broadly mirror reductions elsewhere in the developed world, so it would be unfair of politicians, police or doctors here to claim the credit for a phenomenon that appears to be driven by something more fundamental.

Nevertheless, officials believe that efforts to bear down on domestic and family-related violence, which account for two-thirds of killings, is a key factor in the homicide fall"

As all the armchair detectives who watched the McCann's appealing for help finding their daughter and pronounced them guilty were aware, the statistical evidence shows you're much more likely to be killed by a member of your own family than you are by a marauding, mohawked biker gang with the arse cheeks cut out of their leather trousers. The reason fewer people are being murdered is, in part, due to the disintegration of the social and economic ties which kept folk living under the same roof as someone who'd hated them/lusted after them for years.

[TordelBack]

The reason fewer people are being murdered is, in part, due to the disintegration of the social and economic ties which kept folk living under the same roof as someone who'd hated them/lusted after them for years.

More simply, it's blatant flaunting of God's will that's led us to this sorry pass, where hardly anyone kills anyone any more because they're largely free to do what's best for them and theirs instead.  Utter barbarity, I call it.

Anyhow, before my derailing of yet another thread incites violence in these peaceful halls, I will direct further cogitation to the Political Thread, where lies, suppositions and statistics find their their naturally-determined home.

On topic:
Got the second Pratchett and Baxter Long Earth book The Long War in the library yesterday, hoping it's an improvement on the first.

[Professor Bear]

Snuff, by Pterry.  Tried to read it several times now but it's hard going.  I know why, of course, so I am inclined to be forgiving and shall give it another chance at a later date, if only as an act of spite against those reviewers who seem to be taking pointed delight in it not being as good as usual*, though it's a shame he didn't get to sign off with something of the quality of earlier efforts.


* I did think I was imagining it until the comments section of one review devolved into personal insults while still trying to keep the illusion of reasoned critique, accusing Pratchett of everything from misogyny to homophobia based on their own reading of material and - hilariously and troublingly - "this thing he said to me once when I met him that no-one else heard and I won't repeat but was vaguely offensive."  Whatever one's opinion of the author, it's still pretty sad that the knives only feel safe to come out now.

[shaolin_monkey]

That was in the Upper Effendi, and besides...the wench is dead."

Burroughs (and Gaiman) is also paraphrasing Marlowe's Jew of Malta: "Thou hast committed fornication: but that was in another country, and besides, the wench is dead".  Wikipedia informs me that TS Eliot, PD James, Hemmingway and even Pratchett have used or abused the same line: 

...With reference to Granny Weatherwax's girlhood: "But that was a long time ago, in the past (which is another country). And besides, the bitch is . . . older."

But I got it from Morse.

As to your pessimism, look at the graph again - it's using a logarithmic scale, and the variation or 'uptick' in the later 20th C England is absolutely miniscule, a change in the region of 1 extra homicide death in 200,000 (and examined in greater detail elsewhere).

Wow, well, I never knew that!  I love Pratchett's version.   

Oh, and thanks for cheering me up!

[Tombo]

The real question is what the hell was happening in Italy during the 19th century.  They must have been dropping like flies.

On Topic I'm currently just starting on the Haynes manual for the Avro Vulcan - 1952 onwards (B2 Model) all about a beauty of an aircraft with a fascinating history.

[Mabs]

I'm just reading the infamous Richard Corben interview by Brad  Balfour in Heavy Metal Magazine #51.

At one point Balfour asks Corben: " When you were a kid, did you masturbate over big breasts?" 

I never knew Mr. Balfour was a bleeding psychiatrist! Imagine Mike or David asking that same question to an artist in the Meg Interrogation! 

No wonder Corben was pissed!

[TordelBack]

" When you were a kid, did you masturbate over big breasts?"

"When you were a kid, did your body use haemoglobin to transport oxygen to its tissues where it was used to burn nutrients in order to provide energy?"

And other incisive questions.