Anyone else watched it?
I've seen the first 3 so far and am in two minds about it.
I'm liking Tom Sturridge. He's certainly got the look of Morpheus down. When he relaxes and stops over-enunciating every word, he's pretty much spot on, which is no mean feat
There's something about the general tone of it that just feels a little too in awe of it's source material (like Synder's Watchmen), and there's an air that its extremely keen to emphasis how grown up it is by parachuting in the odd bit of tactical swearing. It reminds me a little of "Angel" at times.
It's following the order of the comics very closely (basically an episode per issue so far) which should in fairness mean that once it gets past the opening issues which were fairly traditional (hero embarks on quest to regain powers and show audience what his character is) and into the interesting stuff post "The Sound of Her Wings", it could really take off
The decision to set it in a non DC universe is a good one (but then keeping Cain and Abel seemed fairly pointless for an audience not familiar with DC lore.).
I hope it does well as it's obviously had a very large amount of money and love poured into it.
Only watched the first episode.
To declare my bias - I have only read a couple of random issues that I picked up for 10p in a Waterstones in 1990/91, so am not familir with the story. I am familiar with Gaiman as a personality rther than a writer, and to be honest, I have a had to elucidate low burn dislike of him - I say this as a Tori Amos fan!
My problem with the first episode, ironically, is that it needed to be less pedestrian and more "dreamllike"? The story feels like it needed a more fairy tale "feel" rather than a real world one? The direction(?) seems to ground everything in the real world, but it clearly isnt any real world we know. I feel it needed a more heightened reality vision to sell the concept? at the very least, the stuff in the dream world and featuring dream world characters needed something to distinguish them as "not of this world" more?
Might watch the second episode, but so far, it feels like an exercise founded on them finding a guy who really fitted the main character lookwise and building from there without a clear "artistic" vision that might have sold this one on me.
As a counter point to this, let me just say, I thought it was great. (I've watched all of it). Casting decisions all seem. spot-on. I like the dip in to the wider scale of the comics in the first season that will probably play out over a few seasons (or, I dunno... season 7 if it gets that far).
I've read the entire run of sandman, though I came to it quite late (read a chunk of it about 15 years ago, but then last year read the entire run via library digital downloads) and overall I prefer the tv series.
Only up to Ep2. I'm on record as very much not being a fan of the original series, but I'm enjoying the TV series a lot.
Not read the comics in years. Love them as a kid , but since returning to comics many moons ago never really felt like digging into them again. Though the curiousity to find out why that is has meant I've got close, of that makes sense. Anyway having watched the first episode of this I suspect I might know why.
It was so ponderous and comes across so self-satisfied I found it distant and unengaging. I'm going to give it to 'Hope in Hell' - well i hope - to see if it can catch alight, but I'm not optimistic after that one. It was fine, there is just too much out there to settle for fine for too long!
Verrrry odd to have been a lone voice shouting that the Emperor is naked* right through the monthly run of Sandman, only to now be be in the exact opposite position with the TV series...
*I actually had a magazine piece spiked by editorial circa 'Season of Mists' on the grounds that, and I quote: "You can't say that about Sandman."
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 07 August, 2022, 09:04:10 PM
Only up to Ep2. I'm on record as very much not being a fan of the original series, but I'm enjoying the TV series a lot.
Out of curiosity, what didn't you like about the comic, Jim?
I'm very much enjoying it and the inclusion of certain characters point to them hoping it goes the distance. I also thought it quite otherworldly and dreamy throughout to be honest, like I thought there was sometimes a warp over peoples faces that harks back to the stretched photocopying effect people like Chris Bachalo would use.
I gather The Sandman is the top Netflix streamed show in around eighty countries - so it's only a matter of time before the announcement is made that the second series has been greenlit...
Quote from: sheridan on 08 August, 2022, 12:22:25 PM
I gather The Sandman is the top Netflix streamed show in around eighty countries - so it's only a matter of time before the announcement is made that the second series has been greenlit...
54 out of 89 markets, according to this website (https://flixpatrol.com/title/the-sandman-2022/) (the majority of the other markets it's in 2nd or 3rd place).
Quote from: oshii on 07 August, 2022, 10:58:30 PM
Out of curiosity, what didn't you like about the comic, Jim?
I enjoyed the first dozen or so issues but, as the series wore on, Gaiman just seemed to get ever more pleased with his own cleverness whilst progressively less and less
actually seemed to happen.There's a point in 'Season of Mists' where Lucifer gazes out over his realm and muses: "Better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven..."
Rather than trust his readers to spot a quotation from Milton, he has a minion say "Whatever you say, my lord..." solely so that Lucifer can reply: "I didn't say that, Milton did..."
But this isn't enough for our Neil — oh, no! The full line is: "I didn't say that, Milton did. And he was blind."
Oh! A little biographical detail as a cherry on top of this little dollop of self-congratulation.
In isolation, it seems like a petty thing to nit-pick, but he was doing it
all the bloody time and it got right up my nose.* I made it to the end of 'Season of Mists' feeling that it wasn't really worth the effort and bailed completely early on in 'Game of You', I think.
I get that this is probably just me, but it really grates.
*He doesn't seem to have got any better. I decided to read the Neverwhere novel, having actually quite enjoyed the TV series. Then I got to a sentence where he describes Vandermar's voice as being "oleaginous" — good adjective, Neil, I thought. Apposite, and slightly onomatopoeic. And then he adds "as sump oil." Just in case we don't know what "oleaginous" means, or failed to appreciate what a good word it is.
Oh,
do fuck off, Neil, I thought. :-)
We're four episodes in so far. Mrs IP is very much enjoying it. I like it a lot too. It feels (suitably) very dream-like, although it does also feel a bit detached and empty (in terms of locations), like the entire thing's been filmed on green screen without any extras. The delivery also often feels more like a stage play than telly, but that's OK.
Gwendoline Christie was interesting as Lucifer from a casting perspective (and Mazikeen looked superb). I was less convinced with Jenna Coleman as Constantine. She kind of had the right attitude, but seemed a bit fragile, and the visual was just odd to me. Although I imagine newcomers won't bat an eyelid. (Still, why Joanna Constantine? Surely she should have been a Joan?)
You're not alone, Jim. Sandman read to me like a series altogether too pleased with itself. Back then, you could "spot Dandman readers, by the fact that they never read any other comics". Which I suppose is good, in a way. But all the ones I spoke to were tedious A Level English students who barked with laughter at all other comics.
I did read the first three or four trades- and still have them- but they were equally as tedious as the people who read them, I thought.
I'm not a fan of Gaiman at all. He's very much the epitome of everything I dislike about the 90s (to current) British 'Dark Fantasy' scene. And also, he's not very good and altogether too impressed by himself. Maybe I never got over the fact that he didn't serve his time at 2000AD, I Don't know.
It's too late to alter my perception now anyway, and I very much doubt I'll ever read Sandman again. I was always a Hellblazer/ Swampy Vertigo person anyway.
As for the TV show- your praise on Facebook has been the only thing that makes me maybe want to watch it. My wife has expressed an interest, but she eats up Netflix series with a voracious appetite, so I imagine she will watch it with or without me. I also expect her considered opinion will either be negative, or it will be "alright, I guess", like with most things.
SBT
I can't help but feel there's a whole raft of comics that suffer from trying to be too clever around this era. You've got Mills banging out Slaine epics that mostly seem to exist to show off his research of <insert historical epoch here>. Moore is producing From Hell with it's extensive appendicies of notes detailing all his research into the ripper and victorian London. And Cerebus is left in a holding pattern while Dave Sim shows us his literary nerd credentials/aspirations with Melmoth (and that only gets worse with Form and Void and Going Home with their notes/rambles about Hemingway and Fitzgerald).
As someone who came to this stuff later in life it does feels a lot like (some) comics writers in the 90s had a chip on their shoulder about not being considered "proper" writers and over compensated.
I love the comic and liked the first episode of the adaptation. The latter didn't blow my socks off. Between styling and performance, the lead actor is spot-on.
Just finished it and absolutely loved it, having never read the comic I didn't have any pre conceived ideas, loved episode six with death and the end credit offers hope of a second series
Significant slice of Delano/Piers Rayner Hellblazer sneaked into Sandman Ep3, even using Delano's Casanova/Newcastle wordplay to set it up. Maybe there was an acknowledgment further down the credits than I sat through but, still, felt a little... dodgy.
Still enjoying the series overall, but that bit... I dunno.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 08 August, 2022, 08:43:46 PM
Significant slice of Delano/Piers Rayner Hellblazer sneaked into Sandman Ep3, even using Delano's Casanova/Newcastle wordplay to set it up. Maybe there was an acknowledgment further down the credits than I sat through but, still, felt a little... dodgy.
Still enjoying the series overall, but that bit... I dunno.
Delano was credited, and you appear to have more reservations than Delano himself does, if twitter thread (https://mobile.twitter.com/jamiedelano/status/1556022807745683459) is anything to judge.
Piers Rayner also got a credit. In fact, Richard posted a screengrab of the credits for that episode - present were Stephen Bissette, Mike Carey, Steve Dillon, Garnder F. Fox, John Ridgway, John Totleben, Len Wein, Chris Brunner, Jamie Delano, Garth Ennis, Richard Piers Rayner, Mike Sekowsky, Rick Veitch and Bernie Wrightson (https://mobile.twitter.com/RPiersRayner/status/1556292327571857411).
Quote from: sheridan on 08 August, 2022, 10:51:00 PM
Delano was credited, and you appear to have more reservations than Delano himself does, if twitter thread (https://mobile.twitter.com/jamiedelano/status/1556022807745683459) is anything to judge.
OK, that's all good. I didn't sit through all the credits. If Jamie and RPR are good with it, I withdraw my reservations!
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 08 August, 2022, 02:33:30 PM
I did read the first three or four trades- and still have them- but they were equally as tedious as the people who read them, I thought.
Some salt and vinegar with your bigot and chips?
Is it "bigoted" to dislike a certain type of wanker? Well, no I don't think so- and indeed, diminishes the meaning of the word. You should try harder to do better.
SBT
I'm curious about this TV show, but in general am very ambivalent about people adapting old comics to the screen. Preacher seemed pretty good but after 2 episodes I felt I'd get more out of just enjoying the comics again. See also Y the Last Man. I've read and mostly enjoyed a handful of Sandman trades, and am minded to read the whole thing at some point - not sure I personally would benefit from consuming largely the same story on telly.
Weirdly, the big Marvel and DC movies don't bother me so much - I imagine because they tend to be telling almost entirely new stories, albeit based on certain comics runs. And they tend to do a good job of making those stories a) more coherent and b) a good fit for the feature film format. TV series are all well and good, but if Sandman is literally an isuue of the comic per episode, reckon I'll stick with the comics.
Finished the series last night. Really enjoyed it. Hoping they manage to keep it running, seems to be popular so that's a good sign at least.
Quote from: AlexF on 09 August, 2022, 11:07:58 AM
TV series are all well and good, but if Sandman is literally an isuue of the comic per episode, reckon I'll stick with the comics.
It isn't - some episodes have been, some have been two stories compressed in to one episode, others have been half a story arc moved around a bit.
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 09 August, 2022, 09:50:05 AM
Is it "bigoted" to dislike a certain type of wanker? Well, no I don't think so- and indeed, diminishes the meaning of the word. You should try harder to do better.
SBT
Saying that anyone who enjoyed Sandman is a wanker is bigoted, yes. Review your comments and the dictionary and you'll see that I'm using my words correctly.
Quote from: AlexF on 09 August, 2022, 11:07:58 AM
I'm curious about this TV show, but in general am very ambivalent about people adapting old comics to the screen.
This is me too, and is the reason why I have yet to see the Dredd film. I am a big fan of the Sherlock Holmes stories and learnt long ago that adaptions are not really for me as, fine as they often are, I tend to see where the adaptions have skipped bits, cadged bits from other stories, etc.
The stories in their original form are enough for me, but its great if people who haven't read the source enjoy an adaption and may even go back to the original source (for Dredd, Holmes, Sandman, etc) and keep it alive for future generations.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 09 August, 2022, 03:04:00 PM
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 09 August, 2022, 09:50:05 AM
Is it "bigoted" to dislike a certain type of wanker? Well, no I don't think so- and indeed, diminishes the meaning of the word. You should try harder to do better.
SBT
Saying that anyone who enjoyed Sandman is a wanker is bigoted, yes. Review your comments and the dictionary and you'll see that I'm using my words correctly.
Except I didn't say that, and you're not. I said the ones I met, who "barked with laughter at other comics" were wankers. My point was that Sandman attracted a readership disinterested in other comics- who thought they were "below them", and that *in my experience* these made up the reader's I met.
I have close friends who enjoyed Sandman- there are some on here, most not- but I strongly disagree with them.
Disliking someone's taste in comics does not make one a "bigot". Disliking that person for their attitudes to other comics does not make one a "bigot". I would strongly suggest you reserve a word like that for appropriate circumstances.
If I seem touchy about this, I was brought up a bigot, and have a daughter who regularly finds herself facing bigots because of who she is.
And Sandman is still a load of pretentious cack.
SBT
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 08 August, 2022, 02:33:30 PM
I did read the first three or four trades- and still have them- but they were equally as tedious as the people who read them, I thought.
Sorry, but I just took you exactly at these words I've quoted. And I think your understanding of the word bigot is particularly narrow, given the actual dictionary definition. But, clearly we disagree, so we should move on. Happy to discuss further on a different thread, if you wish.
I always suspected The Sandman was pretentious but was never well read enough to know for sure. This never stopped me from enjoying it, however, and even inspired me to write tons of pretentious bobbins of my own* without the least bit of embarrassment. I mean, what's the point of being an writist if one can't pretend to be better than one is?
Anyhoo, I enjoyed the comics and I enjoyed this series.
*See my entire back catalogue.
If the choice is between so-called pretentious Sandman or willfully inane Big Dave (other "comics are disposable rubbish" stories from the 1990s also available) then I know which I'd pick.
Quote from: sheridan on 10 August, 2022, 09:19:15 AM
If the choice is between so-called pretentious Sandman or willfully inane Big Dave (other "comics are disposable rubbish" stories from the 1990s also available) then I know which I'd pick.
I have nothing against the 'grown up'/'pretentious'* comics of the 90s. I struck up a conversation about our mutual love of Milligan/Fegredo's Enigma with a young lady who was, frankly, waaaay out of my league at a con. Ran into her in a pub later in the day and the subsequent chat and drinks turned out
much better than I expected. ;-)
*YMMV
I had a vague memory of Enigma having been covered by the Mega-City Book Club, but I can't find it in the archives - guess it must have been mentioned in an episode about another collection? Eamonn - I'm not volunteering!
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 08 August, 2022, 01:43:19 PM
I enjoyed the first dozen or so issues but, as the series wore on, Gaiman just seemed to get ever more pleased with his own cleverness whilst progressively less and less actually seemed to happen.
TBH I get what you mean. I found the opening arcs interesting and enjoyable but after that it really was only the odd issue that seemed worth the effort until I drifted from it completely.
As for the adaptation, so far i've only managed most of the first episode as we are in our 'grand tour of the UK' stage of the school holidays chasing kids around for their different activities (this year is 'introductory Leicester' ...). It's interesting in that it manages to find a decent balance between being faithful to the source material without coming across as 'masturbatory' as happened with Watchmen. Can it sustain this? Well, we'll see I suppose.
On the casting front I'd have to agree with many of the comments. Morpheus himself seems to benefit from a well chosen, if possibly obscure (or I just don't watch much telly any more) actor. Hopefully next week I can find the time to sit down and catch up with the other episodes.
I rather enjoyed The Sandman back in the day, although the art was all over the shop. I've not been so impressed by Gaiman's novels, though. And I find his fans a little too adoring, much like Pratchett fans, although Pratchett is the better writer.
The first three episodes I've seen of the TV adaptation have been great fun. It certainly seems to be going down well with folks I know who are unfamiliar with the source material. Some great casting choices, wisely made changes, and imagery straight out of the comic.
Regards,
Robin
i had very unreasonable and high expectations.
and i still loved it.
Up to Ep4 now. Still enjoying this a lot.
Never read the comics but watching the show and enjoying it a lot. Episode 6 is great TV I think, both tragic and uplifting, the way the episode is split in 2 I'm guessing this is based on two issues. I can see why the comic would be big with the goth crowd as Dream is pretty much a Goth Dream Boy 😊
Very much needed to be a TV series for can't see how this would ever have worked as a movie. The production values of this are through the roof it looks gorgeous and the soundtrack is divine, I've heard it ost in about $15 million per episode. Will be watching the rest over the next couple of evenings.
CU Radbacker
Loved pretty much every minute of it, and the bonus episode - what a unexpected treat.
Here's to a season 2!
Those bonus episodes, out of nowehere, and two of the best in the run. Bravo Netflix.
Finished the 'main' part of the season (only the bonus episode to go). Although it's been many years since I read the original comics, I found I recalled them well enough that there were few surprises here, so faithful was the adaptation. It was more a kind of nodding-along pleasure of good bits recreated well, or appreciation of spot-on casting for me.
M'lovely wife, on the other hand, is entirely unfamiliar with the comics and enjoyed the whole thing. So, I'd put that down as a win for Gaiman's insistence on holding out until the series could be adapted 'properly'. Seems to have been a hit, so fingers crossed there's a Season 2.
Thank you, thank you, and thrice thank you for alerting me to the existence of these two utterly sublime bonus episodes. These were always two of my favourite Sandman tales and justice has been done to them. As Wedgeski so perfectly put it, Bravo Netflix - bravo indeed!
Enjoyed this and happy to see more, the additional episodes were nice too.
Never read the original comics for some of the same reasons stated above, after flicking through TPB of this at the time.
Quote from: sheridan on 10 August, 2022, 12:05:19 PM
I had a vague memory of Enigma having been covered by the Mega-City Book Club, but I can't find it in the archives - guess it must have been mentioned in an episode about another collection? Eamonn - I'm not volunteering!
No, not done Enigma yet, although it has indeed been mentioned.
I loved the comics when they originally came out, blewe away then in my 20s. Up to episode 3 of the show and enjoyed how it is very close to the comics but still fits tv viewing. Man is that not 2 of the Doctors assistants (Constantine and her ex girlfriend) love it.
Quote from: gurnard on 06 September, 2022, 08:29:14 PMMan is that not 2 of the Doctors assistants (Constantine and her ex girlfriend) love it.
If you like that, you'll enjoy the bonus episode at the end
all in all it is all kind of great. but mainly ...
it's a david thewlis masterclass innit.
'The Sandman' Renewed For Season 2 At Netflix
https://deadline.com/2022/11/the-sandman-season-two-netflix-dc-comics-1235161722/#recipient_hashed=b13c4d7da4600904e7767a0d440a6a89407b8949b46341313682cd1c9116fb69&recipient_salt=9e9d929fcaaa5bc181029567e2324546e4f14f605bbafe5f88c4c1bc234c0a2d&utm_medium=email&utm_source=exacttarget&utm_campaign=Deadline_BreakingNews&utm_content=390550_11-02-2022&utm_term=182002
Great!!
Took 'em long enough (in times where series are often renewed before they've even gotten to second episode).
I'll watch season 2, but wouldn't have really cared if the hit-n-miss first season was all we ever got.
The source material is vastly superior, as it the way with these things.
Hopefully the exposure brought more readers in for the collections.
I jumped in mid-way through Seasons of Mists (the post-party, Azaphel episode), so would have been pretty disappointed if Sandman 2 hadn't gone ahead!
Quote from: Link Prime on 03 November, 2022, 01:35:04 PM
The source material is vastly superior, as it the way with these things.
Just by way of counterpoint, I'm on record as not really being a fan of the comic but found the TV series surprisingly entertaining. My wife, who very much doesn't do comics, loved it despite having zero familiarity with the original material.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 03 November, 2022, 07:48:33 PM
My wife, who very much doesn't do comics, loved it despite having zero familiarity with the original material.
Ditto for mine, at least for the first arc + 'bonus' episode.
She asked about future spoilers regarding how things play out with The Endless etc - I left some of the new collections on her bedside locker, only to find that they had mysteriously been placed back on the book shelf the next day (in the wrong order).
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 03 November, 2022, 07:48:33 PM
Quote from: Link Prime on 03 November, 2022, 01:35:04 PM
The source material is vastly superior, as it the way with these things.
Just by way of counterpoint, I'm on record as not really being a fan of the comic but found the TV series surprisingly entertaining. My wife, who very much doesn't do comics, loved it despite having zero familiarity with the original material.
Similar here at Huff Mansions
Quote from: Link Prime on 04 November, 2022, 02:23:52 PM
placed back on the book shelf the next day (in the wrong order).
When's the divorce?
Quote from: sheridan on 04 November, 2022, 03:45:45 PM
Quote from: Link Prime on 04 November, 2022, 02:23:52 PM
placed back on the book shelf the next day (in the wrong order).
When's the divorce?
< Arnie shooting Sharon Stone in the head gif >