I was just rereading the first Sláine story, and it struck me that it was a real shame she couldn't have stuck around the prog a bit longer. I really liked her sole prog entry ever - I mean, she created Sláine's look, and her version was the one that most artists stuck to. I know it's easy to say what might have been, but maybe having such an influential female artist in the prog for a longer period would have attracted more female creators over the years. (Also, and I know it's not nearly as important as her talent, but I've just looked her up and she was an absolute stunner. Of course, Uncle Pat cut quite the dash in his younger days too.)
I've been saying this for ages. She did a couple of Third World War episodes in Crisis, but I think she's one of those artists, like Brian Bolland, whose work looks better in black & white.
I still remember the time she came back using the alias Ken Niemand. Pretty much an anagram, with the spare/needed letters forming the message "I can glam".
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 18 March, 2024, 09:29:27 PMI was just rereading the first Sláine story, and it struck me that it was a real shame she couldn't have stuck around the prog a bit longer.
IIRC, Angie Kincaid was primarily a book illustrator at the time and comics really weren't her forte, with the pages of that first episode getting sent back by the editorial team for revision/redrawing multiple times... to the extent that McMahon had completed many of his episodes before that first episode was judged ready for publication.
Obviously, for it to take
months to get six pages to a point where they're publishable is unsustainable — economically for the artist, and logistically for editorial, who are feeding the ravenous content beast of a weekly anthology and need stuff to arrive ready for lettering/colouring with minimal intervention on their part.
(Plus, even back then, comics didn't pay
that well and I'm sure that book illustration paid more money for less work.)
I totally get that, and fair play to her for going with the more financially rewarding path. I paint and draw for a living, and I've tried drawing comics - I just can't do it. It's insanely difficult and Angie Kincaid did a better job than I ever would.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 19 March, 2024, 07:43:35 AMI paint and draw for a living, and I've tried drawing comics - I just can't do it.
It's murderously hard work — I've said (numerous times!) that drawing comics is probably the most labour-intensive way imaginable of trying to monetise artistic talent.
I've
sort of enjoyed the tiny number of sequential pages I've drawn over the years... but I just find it takes
so long. You have to design the characters, the costumes, the environments, you have to design the pages themselves so that they're both readable and serve the requirements of the script...
And that's all before you've actually drawn a single panel. Then you have to make sure all that stuff you designed is consistent across multiple pages. Figure out the lighting, camera angles, make the characters 'act'.
It's a frickin' miracle any one does it all, never mind for the money most comic gigs are offering!
I think Pat said in Kiss My Axe that she wasn't used to the way comics worked, and the idea of having one of her panels completely redrawn in her style by Robin Smith was completely incomprehensible to her.
Does anyone have any other examples of her art online? The only thing I've found is The Butterfly Children books. Interesting that it's co-created by Pat Mills and still in print to this day.
Between Kiss My Axe and various Sláine collections intros, Pat has spilled an AWFUL lot of ink in prasie of that first episode of Sláine, the amount of effort Kincaid put into it, and how shabbily he feels she was treated by 2000AD at the time.
Anyway, totally agrfee it's an amazing one-off story and would have loved to see more.
Technically, she does have a second Slaine credit, as the author of the 'Killing Fields' sequence that came between Slaine the King and Horned God.
And yeah, would have been nice if more female artists had been attracted to / given a chance on the Prog back in the early days!
I'd forgotten The Killing Fields was her work! I thought it was excellent- capturing both the absolute savagery and epic scale of the story with only one caption. That image of Sláine's hand dripping blood is indelibly burnt into my memory.
Quote from: AlexF on 20 March, 2024, 11:10:26 AMBetween Kiss My Axe and various Sláine collections intros, Pat has spilled an AWFUL lot of ink in prasie of that first episode of Sláine, the amount of effort Kincaid put into it, and how shabbily he feels she was treated by 2000AD at the time.
Anyway, totally agrfee it's an amazing one-off story and would have loved to see more.
Technically, she does have a second Slaine credit, as the author of the 'Killing Fields' sequence that came between Slaine the King and Horned God.
And yeah, would have been nice if more female artists had been attracted to / given a chance on the Prog back in the early days!
I believe he mentioned that both Robin Low and Steve MacManus were sexist, misogynistic dinosaurs who claimed that her art wasn't up to standard (in other words, high quality) and that at the time, both upper Management and so-called "fans" (who were "busy" writing in to complain to Tharg about her art) had wanted her gone.
Quote from: Batman's Superior Cousin on 20 March, 2024, 07:57:11 PMI believe he mentioned that both Robin Low and Steve MacManus were sexist, misogynistic dinosaurs who claimed that her art wasn't up to standard (in other words, high quality) and that at the time, both upper Management and so-called "fans" (who were "busy" writing in to complain to Tharg about her art) had wanted her gone.
Steve McManus's side of the story on Mr. Bishop's blog here, (starting from the bit about Zarjaz monthly)...
http://viciousimagery.blogspot.com/2007/02/28-days-of-2000-ad-7-steve-macmanus-pt.html
Given Mills' notorious temperament, it's useful to hear both sides of that story.
Quote from: M.I.K. on 20 March, 2024, 08:51:46 PMQuote from: Batman's Superior Cousin on 20 March, 2024, 07:57:11 PMI believe he mentioned that both Robin Low and Steve MacManus were sexist, misogynistic dinosaurs who claimed that her art wasn't up to standard (in other words, high quality) and that at the time, both upper Management and so-called "fans" (who were "busy" writing in to complain to Tharg about her art) had wanted her gone.
Steve McManus's side of the story on Mr. Bishop's blog here, (starting from the bit about Zarjaz monthly)...
http://viciousimagery.blogspot.com/2007/02/28-days-of-2000-ad-7-steve-macmanus-pt.html
Yep, I remember reading about that in Kiss My Axe! I believe he mentioned that this incident was basically the start of his "issues" with the comic and its Management.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 20 March, 2024, 09:10:06 PMGiven Mills' notorious temperament, it's useful to hear both sides of that story.
With all due respect, I wasn't taking Pat's side, just writing about what I remember reading about in Kiss My Axe!
Quote from: Batman's Superior Cousin on 20 March, 2024, 07:57:11 PMI believe he mentioned that both Robin Low and Steve MacManus were sexist, misogynistic dinosaurs
That's a harsh call on a long-term forum member. Particularly when he was probably about 12 at the time.
Are you sure you don't mean then 2000AD art editor Robin Smith?
Quote from: GordonR on 21 March, 2024, 08:15:18 AMQuote from: Batman's Superior Cousin on 20 March, 2024, 07:57:11 PMI believe he mentioned that both Robin Low and Steve MacManus were sexist, misogynistic dinosaurs
That's a harsh call on a long-term forum member. Particularly when he was probably about 12 at the time.
Are you sure you don't mean then 2000AD art editor Robin Smith?
Could well possibly be him, I didn't have the book on hand at the time. Thanks for correcting me and apologies to long-term user, Robin Low for slurring your good name & reputation, hope I didn't offend you in any way!! I blame the fact that there's one too many individuals named Robin in the world of 2000AD.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 20 March, 2024, 09:10:06 PMGiven Mills' notorious temperament, it's useful to hear both sides of that story.
It's always useful to get more than one perspective, regardless of temperament. I should add that when I asked her many years ago at a con, knowing none of this backstory, why she didn't draw more Slaine, the answer she gave me was quite different. She said that she was unhappy with the level of violence, and preferred Ukko to Slaine anyway. But this may have been a cover story she came up with because she didn't want to talk about it.
I remember well (in 1985) when ColinYNWA & JayzusB.Christ (then employed as "Mek-Quakers" by Tharg) dragged Gerry Finley-Day out of King's Reach Tower by the hair and gave him a good kicking in an adjoining alley. Tharg (actually a man called Bob Wiskerando*) at that point had just had enough of the ridiculous naming conventions in Rogue Trooper and anyway had a thing about people with hyphenated names. It was common to brutally assault the creatives at that time because it was important that they knew their place within the social hierarchy - something that had become confused with the advent of the revolting punk movement.
* Sorry if that comes as a shock to any Deep Squaxx.
---
Not to derail the thread, though. That first episode of Slaine is very enjoyable, yes. I particularly like the topography of the village, and the old lady with a pet smilodon.
I would happily read a non-violent solo Ukko story illustrated by Angela Kincaid!
Failing that, I wonder if Tharg would commission a Slaine poster or Star Scan from her?
Quote from: Funt Solo on 21 March, 2024, 02:40:01 PMI remember well (in 1985) when ColinYNWA & JayzusB.Christ (then employed as "Mek-Quakers" by Tharg) dragged Gerry Finley-Day out of King's Reach Tower by the hair and gave him a good kicking in an adjoining alley.
Yep, back when I was 10 we were punky punks from a punk background who loved punking around punkishly with other punks from the punk era.[/Pat Mills] [/Grant Morrison for that matter]
I love Pat Mills' classic work and I'll reread it forever, but I generally tend to take his angry reminisces with a pinch of salt. It seems sometimes that apart from him, EVERYONE involved in the editorial teams of comics were various incarnations of the Antichrist. The misogynist label I hadn't heard before, though, and just to be horribly petty, it's a bit rich from someone whose writing defines a female lover as someone 'who will stick one in your back'. I don't really think he's a misgynist, of course, though I do remember a female Squaxx asking Tharg what Pat's 'major malfunction with women' was.
Look those video pictures show nothin' you got nuthuin' on us mate so I'd keep it shut okay.
Anyway we warned him right. I mean Ben Ninety was just askin' for it.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 21 March, 2024, 07:05:19 PMLook those video pictures show nothin' you got nuthuin' on us mate so I'd keep it shut okay.
I've never seen Colin go
FULL THUG before, and it's got me worried.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 21 March, 2024, 07:43:19 PMQuote from: Colin YNWA on 21 March, 2024, 07:05:19 PMLook those video pictures show nothin' you got nuthuin' on us mate so I'd keep it shut okay.
I've never seen Colin go FULL THUG before, and it's got me worried.
That's right, that right. Colin's a good boy. A nice boy and done no wrong to not no one. And don't you forget it if anyone asks... anyone...
This is the real Colin, the other one was just a facade...