So, that thing that's been on the side of buses has been released - two episodes in one go. Think the first one's called [spoiler]Are we there yeti?[/spoiler] or something like that.
Paused the first episode halfway through for a smoke and G&T. Very pretty, but not exactly compelling viewing. Will give it another episode or two, but "expensive wallpaper" isn't going to get it any space in my limited viewing time.
A shame. I wanted to like it.
The first episode is mostly elves and I've never been a fan of the Tolkien elves*, and here they don't have hobbitses to ground them or a Gandalf type to low-key undermine their pomposity.
There are also prequel problems. [spoiler]The climax of the first episode is bereft of any drama because we already know Galadriel doesn't piss off to Elf Valhalla for all eternity. [/spoiler] For all the money spent on that scene, there were some very green-screeney lookin' shots.
Hopefully the dwarves show up in the next episode and provide some much needed shenaniganery.
*I'm an unashamed Elf racist. Creepy supremacist fuckers
I enjoyed both episodes but definitely picks up in the second. Already hits lots of characters to root for.
Never spotted a lot of particularly bad green screen myself.
I fear it's going to get compared a lot to Jackson's movies (naturally) which will be hard on it. And House Of Dragons. I preferred Rings of Power so far
Looks bloody spectacular but hasn't grabbed me by the goulies yet though I only had time to watch the first episode so far. The opening scene/battle really looks like something you'd see on the big screen not TV, the flaming eagle crashing down was some of f the most spectacular fantasy imagery I've ever seen, makes the recent Wheel of Time series look like low budget drek. Will watch ep 2 tonight, never read Tolkien but love the Jackson movies so speculation time - So the flaming dude that fell from the sky? Gandalf or Sauron sneaking his way into the world of man? I mean he has to make the rings and as he is already an established bad guy he is going to have to convince the humans, Elves etc to take said rings and I doubt they would take them off the evil armoured up Sauron so what better way to convince them to take it? As I said never read Tolkien so it might already be explained in the appendices that they have based the series on.
CU Radbacker
I don't think Gandalf arrives until the Third age but a) I forget and b) it's the nature of telly/movie adaptions to compress/distort timelines so could be. They really want you to think it's Gandalf from the way he talks to the fireflies.
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 03 September, 2022, 01:26:04 PM
I don't think Gandalf arrives until the Third age but a) I forget and b) it's the nature of telly/movie adaptions to compress/distort timelines so could be. They really want you to think it's Gandalf from the way he talks to the fireflies.
...but they also want you to think that could be [spoiler]Sauron[/spoiler], because of the [spoiler]eye motif[/spoiler] around the crater. As any Tolkeinite would be very familiar with who Sauron was disguised as in the Second Age, they're likely to have changed names and identifies around a little to keep everybody guessing.
Just watched the first two episodes ... it's ok I guess.
Apparently they couldn't get the rights to the Silmarillion so this is based entirely off the appendices from LOTR. They've had to create loads of new characters intertwined with the established characters like Elrond & Galadriel.
As rightly pointed out, Gandalf didn't arrive until the 3rd age so he can't be the stranger - could he be Tom Bombadil?
I haven't made my mind up yet but I hate the Harfoots. Those Irish accents are really grating.
Quote from: Rara Avis on 03 September, 2022, 07:46:31 PM
I haven't made my mind up yet but I hate the Harfoots. Those Irish accents are really grating.
Those are Irish accents? I thought they were poorly done west country accents.
Well, having now watched Ep2, I've warmed to this considerably. The plot moved on at a decent clip, the introduction of the dwarves livened things up nicely (I'm assuming the 'Maltese Falcon' moment was the [spoiler]Arkenstone[/spoiler]?) and, I'll be honest, I don't really care about how any of this squares with The Silmarillion, or The Unfinished Tales, or any of the stuff Christopher Tolkien mined from his dad's waste paper basket because I don't consider any of it canon, anyway. :-)
I've really enjoyed the first couple of episodes.
Just watched the first episode - I thought it was great. Not quite sure what's going on plotwise yet, but still, Middle Earth is a joy to behold and I was absorbed all the way. I'm not quite sure about the new Elrond - he doesn't look half as regal as Hugo Weaving; there's a touch of Ramsay Bolton about him. I did get a bit of a thrill when the penny finally dropped that the main hobbit was Lenny Henry, though.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 03 September, 2022, 09:39:30 PM
Those are Irish accents? I thought they were poorly done west country accents.
Yes they are poorly done Irish based accents. It seems that these days if writers want to shorthand a group of hearty, salt of the earth type (nomadic) peasants who live in large families and are close to the earth (filthy and wear twigs and fruit in their hair) they just give them Irish accents. Happened in WoT as well the Tinkers had Irish accents too.
It took me a long time to realise they were bad Irish accents too. Lenny Henry's isn't too bad, but, y'know, why?
I have to ask, what is WoT?
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 04 September, 2022, 08:58:49 AM
It took me a long time to realise they were bad Irish accents too. Lenny Henry's isn't too bad, but, y'know, why?
Potatoes.
POH-TAY-TOES. ;-)
QuoteI have to ask, what is WoT?
Wheel of Time, I assume.
Thinking about it, you might also ask why the dwarves are all Scots. Bad-tempered, bearded redheads, hostile to outsiders, swilling booze and secretively hoarding their wealth... :-)
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 04 September, 2022, 09:09:43 AM
Thinking about it, you might also ask why the dwarves are all Scots. Bad-tempered, bearded redheads, hostile to outsiders, swilling booze and secretively hoarding their wealth... :-)
This made me smile. But I did it in secret where no other Scottish person could see.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 04 September, 2022, 04:04:22 AM
I'm not quite sure about the new Elrond - he doesn't look half as regal as Hugo Weaving; there's a touch of Ramsay Bolton about him. I did get a bit of a thrill when the penny finally dropped that the main hobbit was Lenny Henry, though.
Funny you should say that as the actor playing young Elrong was previously most famous for playing young Ned Stark from the timey-wimey flashback scenes from GoT.
That Lenny Henry's certainly returning to the fantasy genre lately (prevously the only connection I know of was the Neverwhere TV series, but that was behind the scenes).
Quote from: sheridan on 04 September, 2022, 02:02:26 PM
That Lenny Henry's certainly returning to the fantasy genre lately (prevously the only connection I know of was the Neverwhere TV series, but that was behind the scenes).
A few years back, I was lucky enough to see the 40 minute proof-of-concept film adapting Ben Read and Chris Wildgoose's first volume of Porcelain (directed by Chris's brother, Tim, who, amongst other things, was head armourer on GoT) in which Lenny Henry starred.
I can only find the trailer (https://youtu.be/Q70AjffIbfY) online so you'll have to take my word for it that Our Len was excellent as Uncle (as was Zoe Brough as The Girl). At the end of the trailer, you'll even see my logo for the series. :-)
(Plug: if you haven't read the three volumes of Porcelain to date, they're worth tracking down, BTW.)
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 04 September, 2022, 09:02:31 AM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 04 September, 2022, 08:58:49 AM
It took me a long time to realise they were bad Irish accents too. Lenny Henry's isn't too bad, but, y'know, why?
Potatoes. POH-TAY-TOES. ;-)
QuoteI have to ask, what is WoT?
Wheel of Time, I assume.
Thanks! Haven't seen it yet.
Just finished episode 2 of RoP (has anyone abbreviated it thusly yet?) and I must say I really liked it. Admittedly I don't really have a clue what's going on but the atmosphere (including the epic musical score) has me enthralled..
(Also, I'm so sorry but the 'potatoes' reference went over my head too.... my main memories of Lenny Henry involve Delbert Wilkins, a Thriller piss-take and seagull noises.)
To me he'll always be Trevor McDoughnut.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 05 September, 2022, 09:21:03 PM
I'm so sorry but the 'potatoes' reference went over my head too....
Hobbits... potatoes. Irish... potatoes. A poor attempt at humour on my part. Apologies.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 05 September, 2022, 09:34:33 PM
To me he'll always be Trevor McDoughnut.
Some mix of Delbert Wilkins, David Bellamy and the Oooooooh-Kaaaaaaayyyyyyy character (with a bit of The Totally Stonking, Surprisingly Educational an dUtterly Mindboggling Comic Relief Comic representation too).
And how could I forget Theophilus P. Wildebeeste?
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 05 September, 2022, 09:45:20 PM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 05 September, 2022, 09:21:03 PM
I'm so sorry but the 'potatoes' reference went over my head too....
Hobbits... potatoes. Irish... potatoes. A poor attempt at humour on my part. Apologies.
No need for apologies- I thought it was a reference to a part of Lenny Henry's back catalogue that I'd forgotten! In fairness, we do like a spud or two over here; my foreign students are always taken aback at how true the stereotype is :)
Quote from: sheridan on 05 September, 2022, 10:01:17 PM
And how could I forget Theophilus P. Wildebeeste?
Feck, yeah, it's all coming back to me now! Anyone remember him being interviewed for one of the 2000ad specials? Can't remember which one, but his mind appeared to be blown on being shown the Horned God for the first time.
Quote from: sheridan on 05 September, 2022, 10:01:17 PM
And how could I forget Theophilus P. Wildebeeste?
"The P is for Penetration!"
Well, gwapple me gwapenuts! I didn't realize that this thread would become a Lenny Appreciation meeting. He's rocking some big hair as the wise hobbit-like person.
Talking of regional accents, then just regions - I've been reading The Anglo-Saxons (Morris 2021), and learning that the Welsh are basically the OG Britons, sort of thing. I say sort of thing because the OG Britons were a bit squished by the Beaker folk and so on. Everything I know about English history I get from one book and a Stewart Lee sketch (https://vimeo.com/437542256).
[quote i]POH-TAY-TOES.[/i] ;-)[/quote]
POH-TAY-TOES !!
Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew!!!
I wouldn't be surprised if the dwarves invent the battered mars bar in the next episode ...
Quote from: Rara Avis on 06 September, 2022, 07:29:52 AM
POH-TAY-TOES !!
Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew!!!
WELL - OIL - BEEF - HOOKED.
;-)
So do you all reckon this show is any use? It's just not been on my radar. I don't know why, but I have just not fancied it. I reckoned it would be a po-faced piece of expensive fan fiction. Am I wrong?
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 09 September, 2022, 08:11:31 AM
So do you all reckon this show is any use? It's just not been on my radar. I don't know why, but I have just not fancied it. I reckoned it would be a po-faced piece of expensive fan fiction. Am I wrong?
Well, if you're going to be a purist about it, everything that isn't
The Hobbit or
Lord of the Rings is essentially fan fiction — we have no way of knowing what any of the posthumously-published stuff would have looked like if/when JRRT had finally decided it was in a state he was happy to publish. Personally, that side of it doesn't bother me at all. (It helps that I haven't read any of it, for precisely this reason!)
We're only two episodes in (the third releases today) and I found the first to be very pretty, but a little dull. The second livens up enormously, to the extent that I'm very much looking forward to the third tonight.
I've really enjoyed it so far. The LotR films for me were about the world-building (well, cinematic realisation of a world already built) as much as the plot; or possibly more than the plot. I love the look of Middle Earth, from the pastoral village of Hobbiton to the mind-bogglingly huge statues of kings straddling the rivers. The soundtrack is perfect too; just the right mix of cheerful homeliness, ethereal mysticism and apocalyptic hugeness - sorry, I'm not too good at describing music.
So even though I still don't really know what's going on storywise, I've been rivetted all the way.
Yep, this is exactly my cup of tea.
I'm enjoying this but with reservations. It certainly looks amazing, they've nailed that. The main story with Galadrial, Elendil and Isildur is all a bit po-faced, lots of historically portentous statements and meaningful looks. The Harfoot parts are more fun, but patronisingly simplistic. This bit I enjoyed most in the 3rd ep was the orcs and prisoners sections.
It suffers from the usual prequel curse of knowing how the story ends, and seems to be just an exercise in very expensive eyeball-candy.
Quote from: Dandontdare on 12 September, 2022, 04:07:00 PM
I'm enjoying this but with reservations. It certainly looks amazing, they've nailed that. The main story with Galadrial, Elendil and Isildur is all a bit po-faced, lots of historically portentous statements and meaningful looks. The Harfoot parts are more fun, but patronisingly simplistic. This bit I enjoyed most in the 3rd ep was the orcs and prisoners sections.
It suffers from the usual prequel curse of knowing how the story ends, and seems to be just an exercise in very expensive eyeball-candy.
^^^This.
Grand music as the camera glides over elaborate sets and characters stare in slack-jawed amazement at a green screen isn't quite enough. In Blade Runner, for all the awe of the vast, neon-lit, rain-soaked vistas, Deckard always looks unimpressed. And the music is always taking us with it.
Logic: was Galadriel just committing suicide when she jumped into the water? Can Elves swim across oceans normally? Why's she being such a diplomatic dunce all the time, when she's incredibly wise in Lothlorien?
I still want to watch, but some of the beats are tricksy, precious.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 12 September, 2022, 10:25:11 PM
Logic: Why's she being such a diplomatic dunce all the time, when she's incredibly wise in Lothlorien?
Because she's about two thousand years older at that point...?
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 12 September, 2022, 10:49:12 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 12 September, 2022, 10:25:11 PM
Logic: Why's she being such a diplomatic dunce all the time, when she's incredibly wise in Lothlorien?
Because she's about two thousand years older at that point...?
5000 year old stroppy teenager? Ah, why not...
Yeah, I thought it was quite good that they laid out in Episode 1 that Galadriel and Elrond are almost the opposite of when you first see them in Fellowship. There's your character journey.
Of course this is in no way legally part of the Jackson movie universe. Oh no, not at all.
I love it
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 13 September, 2022, 08:59:33 AM
Of course this is in no way legally part of the Jackson movie universe. Oh no, not at all.
Definitely nothing to do with the Jackson LotR. Definitely not. No way. What's that? Why, yes, we
did hire Howard Shore to do the main theme, what of it...?
Nudgenudgewinkwink...
Quote from: Funt Solo on 13 September, 2022, 03:50:48 AM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 12 September, 2022, 10:49:12 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 12 September, 2022, 10:25:11 PM
Logic: Why's she being such a diplomatic dunce all the time, when she's incredibly wise in Lothlorien?
Because she's about two thousand years older at that point...?
5000 year old stroppy teenager? Ah, why not...
She's only about a 1,000 years old at the time this is set you filthy casuals ...
Just kidding but I did read that somewhere.
How dare you! I did approximately three minutes of research to come up with my magic number about a mythological immortal elf warrior.
The timeline has been concertinad somewhat as otherwise the elves would all stay the same and they'd have to get an entirely new cast of non-elves every episode.
Anyone interested in a rather odd Thranduil (Legolas' dad) fanboy meme dump (https://imgur.com/gallery/LnnhbjR) that I found?
This continues to be a thing of beauty and when scenes land, they land really well but goodness to they could have squeezed episodes 4 and 5 into a single episode.
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 24 September, 2022, 12:43:39 AM
This continues to be a thing of beauty and when scenes land, they land really well but goodness to they could have squeezed episodes 4 and 5 into a single episode.
I would go as far as to say the five episodes we've had so far could have been squeezed into three. Here are some thoughts I have thunk about the show so far:
(Fair warning, this is a bit meandering, nit-picky and spoilery)
There was a weird bit in episode two where Elrond and Calebrimbor resolve to go and visit the Elrond's Dwarf mucker. I was expecting a big ol' procession with guards and carriages, but nope. Cut to the two elves sauntering up to a wee door in the side of a mountain. They didn't even hop on a horse. Didn't even put on a coat of bring a picnic bag for the journey. No pomp or ceremony. In the most expensive TV show ever
Maybe the dwarves just have entrances to their mines everywhere, so they just sauntered down to the entrance down to the nearest one. Maybe it's just elves being elves and a multi-day journey doesn't seem like a big deal. At least that's one part where they just progressed the story, and they do address the Elvish disregard for time later.
The dwarves injected some much needed levity into all the Elve stuff, Elrond and Durin's friendship is really endearing. Not a full blown bromance, but I think that makes it a bit more genuine and charming.
The Harfoot culture is feckin' brutal.
"We will wait for them"
Will ye fuck.
I wasn't invested in the drama of the Nori's da being left behind because it was obvious the big man would sort them out.
The big man is the most interesting part of the harfoot plot. Who is he? Amnesiac Sauron? I want to say Tom Bombadil, but he was cut out of the Jackson trilogy, so why bring him in here? Could be to address that omission, but his coat is not blue and his boots aren't yellow. A Bombadil origin story would also ruin his mystique and he doesn't seem to be all that care-free. I will concede that his attitude could easily change over the millenia. Galadriel's certainly did.
Gladriel's character has just been idling. Sure she has achieved stuff, but I don't get the impression that she has learned anything or developed in any way. She remains obsessive and haughty, so I'm looking forward to see if the events in this show turn her into the aloof and wise being that dumbfounds the fellowship with her other-wordly beauty. The ecstatic horse riding scene was a bit strange, her love of a good ride wasn't really established and I don't like when shows pad their running time with slow-mo. There's been a lot of that throughout.
Númenor looks awesome, but I don't think we needed two episodes of politicking. This isn't A Song of Ice and Fire. But I like how they're setting Elendil up. Seems to be a rise and fall arc going on there.
The Southlander's plot is my favourite. The showrunners have correctly judged that rubber face orcs are way better than CGI ones. They're properly menacing and have provided some of the best action scenes so far, with Arondir Legolassing all over their asses. Benjen Stark makes a good villain too.
Overall, the run-time would put us roughly at the last act of The Two Towers theatrical cut, so here's hoping for some Helm's Deepish* swording next week.
*Peter Jackson's staging of that battle scene was insane, so I'm not expecting anything near it. Nor should I. Even from the most expensive TV show ever.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 24 September, 2022, 02:14:20 AM
There was a weird bit in episode two where Elrond and Calebrimbor resolve to go and visit the Elrond's Dwarf mucker. I was expecting a big ol' procession with guards and carriages, but nope. Cut to the two elves sauntering up to a wee door in the side of a mountain. They didn't even hop on a horse. Didn't even put on a coat of bring a picnic bag for the journey. No pomp or ceremony. In the most expensive TV show ever.
Mind you - in OG LOTR, the elves tend to meander around the place on foot and just teleport in feasts when they feel like it. I did feel like approaching with two was already pushing the boundaries of Elf-Dwarf diplomacy pretty hard.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 24 September, 2022, 02:14:20 AM
I wasn't invested in the drama of the Nori's da being left behind because it was obvious the big man would sort them out.
Not obvious to this dunce-brain.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 24 September, 2022, 02:14:20 AM
The big man is the most interesting part of the harfoot plot. Who is he? Amnesiac Sauron? I want to say Tom Bombadil, but he was cut out of the Jackson trilogy, so why bring him in here? Could be to address that omission, but his coat is not blue and his boots aren't yellow. A Bombadil origin story would also ruin his mystique and he doesn't seem to be all that care-free. I will concede that his attitude could easily change over the millenia. Galadriel's certainly did.
I assumed from the off that this was Sauron. The show is clearly playing a "is he, isn't he" game with us - making sure to make him seem innocent on the one hand but deadly on the other. Also - who are those feckers that are tracking him? Friend or foe? The other Sauron possibility is Mr. Smith who's palsy with Galadriel now.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 24 September, 2022, 02:14:20 AM
The ecstatic horse riding scene was a bit strange, her love of a good ride wasn't really established and I don't like when shows pad their running time with slow-mo.
That did stick out - I was wondering if (on playback), it just looked janky at full speed - so they picked a bit that looked okay and slowed it down just so it was usable. Oh, to be a fly on the wall of the editing roo - *SPLAT*.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 24 September, 2022, 02:14:20 AM
[Helm's Deep:] Peter Jackson's staging of that battle scene was insane, so I'm not expecting anything near it. Nor should I. Even from the most expensive TV show ever.
My favorite bit: it starts raining. The bits that stick out badly on repeat viewing are the forced schtick twixt Elf 'n' Dwarf.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 24 September, 2022, 04:46:10 PM
My favorite bit: it starts raining.
Fucking yes. I was thinking about watching those movies after the series. Now I definitely will.
I'm pretty sure the DVD extras documentary about filming Helms Deep is longer than the DVD extras documentary about making the rest of the movie
it looks nice. they should get a good calendar out of it.
Quote from: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 26 September, 2022, 08:23:21 PM
it looks nice. they should get a good calendar out of it.
LOL
About what it's good for at the moment. If people are enjoying it, fair play. But no one's convincing me that it's anything other than a lovely-looking, boring and extremely expensive disaster.
I should have shared my theory after episode 1, because I'd either look a) cleverer if I was right, or b) less stupid if I was wrong, but I was totally convinced bad bowl-haircut boy was going to become Sauron, via the evil flame-sword maguffin which obviously contained his evil spirit.Right up until the end of the latest episode. Bugger.
Don't ever take investment advice from me.
Holy f*ck! That was a really good episode.
My YouTube feed keeps trying to make me watch misogynistic rants about how it's all the elf woman's fault (that they've decided in advance to hate things because hating things gets more clicks than liking things).
Paraphrasing just about my least favorite human being on the planet: "The Internet. Sad!"
Quote from: Funt Solo on 01 October, 2022, 02:40:23 AM
Holy f*ck! That was a really good episode.
It was wasn't it? No Harfoots!
Yeah I really liked that one.
As for Sauron I think [spoiler]this is not just my theory but after last night's episode I think it's looking pretty on the money - the King of the South, several reasons, he's the not smithing so might just be able to make some rings, he's travelling with Galandrielle so he f he turns out to be Souron it'll be very dramatic as he's got he one she has been hunting for all this time and the hint from last night's episode the Dark Elf said he killed Sauron and me Kalgoorlie my has real anger towards him tell Galanrielle she doesn't know what he did to him[/spoiler]
And damn it does look good, the practical Orcs are arsom probably look as good as Jackson's from the original movies and about a million times better than the CGI abominations from the hobbit movies
CU Radbacker
Yeah, that was an absolutely amazing episode. Galadriel kicks arse.
After a slightly dull but very pretty opener, I've been really enjoying this and, just to echo everyone else, this week's episode was a belter.
(Coming on top of excellent episodes of Andor and She-Hulk this week, I'm feeling a bit spoiled — House of Dragon will need to be at the top of its game to keep up!)
Top stuff. Though a little intense ([spoiler]especially the ichor from the eye dripping onto Arondir as he struggled for his life. And the casual running through of villagers)[/spoiler]. I thought it was a 12a, looks more like a 15.
Some fantastic reversals of expectations[spoiler] in the opening. I was expecting another Helm's Deep at the fort but switching it to the village was brilliantly done.[/spoiler]
Plus Cate Blanchett now has a contender.
Thought it was awful to be honest. As soon as you engage your brain, it falls to bits. For example: the army on its way to Middle Earth from Numenor. How long did it take for them to be clearly in open water on the sea to disembark on wherever it was they landed? How did they even know where they were going? How did they even know what they were supposed to be facing? Where did they store all those horses for every single solider that came along? Why was it day time when they set off, and night time at their destination? If it was a distance thing, then how come they literally showed up just in time for a battle that probably only lasted a few hours when the location of the map indicates a distance of a few hundred miles or more? Did they have sat nav on the horses and did the horses have wings and engines attached? Or they just teleported because they read the script? Was the Elvin tower at the fort held together with chewing gum and duct tape for a single rope breaking to fell it? Why did the orcs just all march in single file straight into what would be potential ambush? Why did they abandon an obvious stronghold built for a siege and thought it was a better idea to hold up in a town in open plane that could be attacked from every direction, no fortification apart from a keep that could be burned or raised to the ground? How did Halbrand get in front of Galadriel and the dude she was chasing? How did the townsfolk not know they were fighting other townsfolk and realize it was a ruse?
It did look nice and dramatic in some shots, though. Suppose that's what counted.
Quote from: Rusty on 01 October, 2022, 11:38:52 PM
How did Halbrand get in front of Galadriel and the dude she was chasing?
I thought about that one - we see Galadriel use a Haste spell (3rd level, mofos!) on her hoss, and she's just a lowly elf. Given that Halbrand ([spoiler]aka possibly, Sauron[/spoiler]) is a [spoiler]Maia[/spoiler], one assumes he can probably cast Wish (9th!) and just, y'know, win any race.
For someone so entirely consumed by continuity, I'm surprised you don't know that "the dude she was chasing" is Adar. Do try to keep up. However are you going to learn Prestidigitation if you don't pay attention to the details?
Quote from: Funt Solo on 02 October, 2022, 12:38:10 AM
Quote from: Rusty on 01 October, 2022, 11:38:52 PM
How did Halbrand get in front of Galadriel and the dude she was chasing?
I thought about that one - we see Galadriel use a Haste spell (3rd level, mofos!) on her hoss, and she's just a lowly elf. Given that Halbrand ([spoiler]aka possibly, Sauron[/spoiler]) is a [spoiler]Maia[/spoiler], one assumes he can probably cast Wish (9th!) and just, y'know, win any race.
For someone so entirely consumed by continuity, I'm surprised you don't know that "the dude she was chasing" is Adar. Do try to keep up. However are you going to learn Prestidigitation if you don't pay attention to the details?
LOL Yes, like "the dude" even matters. I called him that because A) I couldn't recall his name due to me not being invested in anything going on in this show, and b) he's not from any of Tolkien's lore, so who gives a fiddlers fuck about "trying to keep up" when the show isn't.
This is not Tolkien. Do try to keep up.
You've set out to be offended that the show has things Tolkien didn't write? That would be a known quantity going in, shurely? So, in your dream version there would only be characters, places and events named from and described in the LOTR appendices? Which aren't, y'know, a dramatic story. By design.
I realize I'm guessing a bit at your motives. For someone not invested in the show, though, you came up with one hell of a comprehensive list of complaints from a single episode. I also have trouble when a drama places too many continuity or logic hurdles in my path, but I'm a bit baffled by "Why was it day time when they set off, and night time at their destination?" Does it still throw you off when you go into a cinema in daylight and come out into darkness?
Anyway - sorry you're not enjoying it. It's difficult to imagine, though, what you would have enjoyed in its place.
It is funny how when invested in something you tend to make the logic jumps in your head for yourself. But if not invested, everything becomes a "plot hole". We had a similar discourse on the House of Dragon thread.
I like it so I thought;
Halbrand knows the country, so he took a short cut;
or they've compressed the story telling so things that aren't happening at the same time, looked like they do (a lot of shows do this)
or they rigged the tower so it would collapse killing loads of orcs which gave them a fighting chance (did I need to see that? It might have ruined the surprise)
or those Numenor ships are big and really well designed to transport the horses and riders.
Anyway, shame you don't enjoy it. Amazed you got so far in.
Quote from: Rusty on 02 October, 2022, 02:48:10 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 02 October, 2022, 12:38:10 AM
Quote from: Rusty on 01 October, 2022, 11:38:52 PM
How did Halbrand get in front of Galadriel and the dude she was chasing?
I thought about that one - we see Galadriel use a Haste spell (3rd level, mofos!) on her hoss, and she's just a lowly elf. Given that Halbrand ([spoiler]aka possibly, Sauron[/spoiler]) is a [spoiler]Maia[/spoiler], one assumes he can probably cast Wish (9th!) and just, y'know, win any race.
For someone so entirely consumed by continuity, I'm surprised you don't know that "the dude she was chasing" is Adar. Do try to keep up. However are you going to learn Prestidigitation if you don't pay attention to the details?
LOL Yes, like "the dude" even matters. I called him that because A) I couldn't recall his name due to me not being invested in anything going on in this show, and b) he's not from any of Tolkien's lore, so who gives a fiddlers fuck about "trying to keep up" when the show isn't.
This is not Tolkien. Do try to keep up.
Well this programme appears to be causing you a lot of distress. Maybe make better use of your time if you are not "invested in anything going on in this show". Focus on what brings you joy.
Quote from: Rusty on 01 October, 2022, 11:38:52 PM
Thought it was awful to be honest. As soon as you engage your brain, it falls to bits. For example: the army on its way to Middle Earth from Numenor. How long did it take for them to be clearly in open water on the sea to disembark on wherever it was they landed? How did they even know where they were going? How did they even know what they were supposed to be facing? Where did they store all those horses for every single solider that came along? Why was it day time when they set off, and night time at their destination? If it was a distance thing, then how come they literally showed up just in time for a battle that probably only lasted a few hours when the location of the map indicates a distance of a few hundred miles or more? Did they have sat nav on the horses and did the horses have wings and engines attached? Or they just teleported because they read the script? Was the Elvin tower at the fort held together with chewing gum and duct tape for a single rope breaking to fell it? Why did the orcs just all march in single file straight into what would be potential ambush? Why did they abandon an obvious stronghold built for a siege and thought it was a better idea to hold up in a town in open plane that could be attacked from every direction, no fortification apart from a keep that could be burned or raised to the ground? How did Halbrand get in front of Galadriel and the dude she was chasing? How did the townsfolk not know they were fighting other townsfolk and realize it was a ruse?
It did look nice and dramatic in some shots, though. Suppose that's what counted.
Each one of your questions is easily answered with a modicum of thought, but I feel that would be a waste of everyone's time. Maybe best you just stop watching.
Also loving Rings of Power. I don't mind the slow burn, in fact I preferred the earlier episodes to this one, but it was a belter nonetheless.
Ensuring that I can be evidentially smug if I'm right, my guess for Sauron is [spoiler]Celebrimbor. That brief plan of his to create a tower of some sort, and his proximity to the elves, both put him at the top of the list for me. [/spoiler]
I enjoyed that, story lines are coming together and things are actually happening. So much for my theory that Halbrand's first name is Theo and the southlands plot was a flashback to his childhood. Bronwyn's death fakeout was a tad irritating. We know Galadriel, Isildur and Elendil all survive to at least the end of the War of the Ring, so I thought they might create a bit of jeopardy by sacrificing the original characters. A missed opportunity for a "shit just got real" moment, but then again, this shit isn't real, nor is it Game of Thrones, so I'll slide on.
Another disproven theory I had was that Galadriel already knew who stupid-sexy-dark-elf was. I'm glad that she didn't, that would make Middle-Earth at least as small as the Star Wars galaxy. It made sense that Halbrand knew him and wasn't his biggest fan. Galadriel's general psychopathy and now her petty refusal to acknowledge the Uruk's preferred pronouns was most unbecoming of the Queen of lothlorien. I'm starting to think Galadriel might be a family name.
I really enjoy the sound design in these Tolkien live-action adaptations. The rumble of loads of horses galloping is a particular favourite. I wanted Galdriel to have her big stupid horse riding smile at the front, but I understand the producers deemed that inappropriate.
I don't think any of the characters we've seen so far are secretly Sauron. If memory serves (spoilers for really old books), Sauron [spoiler]the deceiver disguises himself as an elf styled as the "gift giver" or "master of gifts" or somesuch, and convinces Gil-Galad and Celebrimbor to help him forge the rings of power.[/spoiler] I reckon if he turns up at all in this season, it will be in the last episode, possibly in an epilogue.
I'm perfectly happy for Galadriel's character to be far away from what we know of them from LotR - that's what character development is all about.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 03 October, 2022, 03:24:16 PM
So much for my theory that Halbrand's first name is Theo and the southlands plot was a flashback to his childhood.
I had the same early theory - it wasn't clear if everything was happening at the same time.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 03 October, 2022, 03:24:16 PM
Another disproven theory I had was that Galadriel already knew who stupid-sexy-dark-elf was. I'm glad that she didn't, that would make Middle-Earth at least as small as the Star Wars galaxy.
I can't remember which LOTR YouTuber it was, but one of 'em had an interesting piece about whether Suaron knew about the origins of the wizards.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 03 October, 2022, 03:24:16 PM
acknowledge the Uruk's preferred pronouns
It's brave to bring up the notion that Uruks are fighting for their lives against an enemy that hopes to eliminate them from the world.
B2 The Keep on the Borderlands - or "Valley of Genocide" had no such subtleties.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 03 October, 2022, 06:47:19 PM
I can't remember which LOTR YouTuber it was, but one of 'em had an interesting piece about whether Suaron knew about the origins of the wizards.
I thought Sauron
was a wizard, only older and more powerful. My source is the books filtered through ~two decades of importanter things pushing this knowledge out of my brain and some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. I haven't researched this to youtuber standards, so I'm happy to defer to their wisdom.
Oh - I found the link: Did Sauron know about Gandalf? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LcFI0KG5oM)
It's based on the idea that the Maiar in Middle-Earth perhaps don't retain all their memories of hanging out in their equivalent of Mount Olympus prior to manifesting in Middle-Earth.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 06 October, 2022, 04:54:26 AM
Oh - I found the link: Did Sauron know about Gandalf? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LcFI0KG5oM)
Thanks for that, I went down a wee rabbit hole and I had an enjoyable evening with that guy's videos.
I enjoyed that one a lot too. Galadriel on top form, lots of emotional heft (especially with Elrond and Durin IV and III (slightly undercut by fakeout deaths). And the Harfoot plot starting to, if you pardon the pun, bear fruit.
Yeah - another good episode. Shit getting real for the Harfoots. Or Harfeet. Eleventy-one.
As Tips said, the fake-out deaths were all a bit much - I understand you might want to hold out a couple of did they/didn't theys after a big disaster where everyone gets separated, but by the time you're doing that for every single one of the main playas, it's a bit like a call-back sketch on The Fast Show. (Never mind that they're doing an episode-spanning fake-out for [spoiler]Isuldur[/spoiler] - although even the least nerdy LOTR-follower will know the outcome of that.)
Mini-Solo was laughing it up at the "I'm nearly dead" [spoiler]Halbrand[/spoiler] then going for a stroll ("I'm feeling better!"), then a horse ride ([manly grunt]).
Lots of money now on meteor man being [spoiler]Radagast (at one with nature)[/spoiler], or [spoiler]Gandalf (affinity for hobbits, whispering to bugs)[/spoiler] - but this theory flies in the face of some Tolkien writings.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 08 October, 2022, 05:38:07 PM
Yeah - another good episode.
Yes. This series has really stepped up to the plate in later episodes. As my comments upthread show, I was pretty ambivalent on this series, but I'm genuinely happy to say that I was wrong — the recent episodes have been fantastic.
Yer one feminem definitely had an eye of Sauron on the end of their staff....
(https://i.imgur.com/Xflu81V.png)
Rutgirl Hauer, I would have thought. Haven't seen this episode yet but the last one was, as many have said here, a stoater. I like the Harfeet, for all their dodgy Oirish accents, and am looking forward to seeing what this episode has in store for them.
Just watched the episode and loved it. Best one yet by far. And yeah, Mr Pops is right - that's definitely more Feminem than Rutgirl Hauer. I'm kind of getting used to the idea that Harfoots have Irish accents - why not, I suppose; makes as much sense as Orcs having cockney ones. And while they're not all spot on, they're mostly way, way better than Joe Gilgun's Cassidy voice.
My knowledge of Middle-Earth history doesn't go far beyond the three LOTR books and The Hobbit, so I'm excited to see things like the founding of [spoiler]Mordor[/spoiler] and the possibility that the weird beardy type may turn out to be someone of significance.
Woah! That was excellent! Perhaps a little bit too much ring pr0n at the end, but otherwise nothing to fault it as a season closer. [spoiler]Sauron [/spoiler]revealed - early nerd-theories correct. [spoiler]Gandalf [/spoiler]revealed - or is it?
Yes I enjoyed the last episode though the reveal of Sauron was not too much of a suprise it did try to wrong foot it earlier in the episode.
[spoiler]I don't think you he Istari is Gandalf though probably one of the older Istari I will be a bit disappointed if it is him as I've been lead to believe he's not on Middle Earth in this age [/spoiler]
Overall I be liked the series it looks spectacular and sounds spectacular hope there's not too long a wait for the next season.
CU Radbacker
Quote from: Funt Solo on 15 October, 2022, 02:28:30 AM
Woah! That was excellent! Perhaps a little bit too much ring pr0n at the end, but otherwise nothing to fault it as a season closer.
Well, I mean, it is in the name of the show :P
Wish they'd quit it with the Isildur being dead bit though.
Satisfying end and I would look forward to the next season. The Sauron reveal was well handled, in hindsight you could say it was pretty obvious it was that character from the start but they did a good job of casting doubt on them.
I'm now swayed into thinking that The Stranger is actually Saruman, he makes that very Gandalf like comment about following your nose but the actor has a slight wonk on his nose which is very similar to Christopher Lee.
Still hate the Harfoots and skipped through their bits.
Quote from: Rara Avis on 15 October, 2022, 12:10:13 PM
Still hate the Harfoots and skipped through their bits.
Gotta assume you're also prejudiced against Ewoks? Where do you stand on Ents?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just realized why I liked Galadriel's mental battle with [spoiler]Hal-Sauron-brand[/spoiler] so much - it reminded me of one of my favorite parts of Farscape - when Scorpius/Harvey was in John's mind.
Quote from: Radbacker on 15 October, 2022, 04:27:34 AM
[spoiler]I don't think you he Istari is Gandalf though probably one of the older Istari I will be a bit disappointed if it is him as I've been lead to believe he's not on Middle Earth in this age [/spoiler]
[spoiler]I wonder if they'll retcon their way around this by suggesting that this is an earlier visit. It's not too crazy, as we already know that Gandalf can't really die.[/spoiler]
Overall I thought the series was quite good. The pacing would be my main complaint., It didn't exactly hit the ground running, and it has been using mystery-box-bullshit as an unnecessary crutch. I didn't buy the [spoiler]Halbrand is Sauron[/spoiler] theories because I thought they were dumb. I still do.
Quote from: Rara Avis on 15 October, 2022, 12:10:13 PM
I'm now swayed into thinking that The Stranger is actually Saruman, he makes that very Gandalf like comment about following your nose but the actor has a slight wonk on his nose which is very similar to Christopher Lee.
Nah, it's Gandalf. They're setting up the origin of his affection for Hobbitses. I'm fine with it just being another one of his weird wizzardy quirks, but Star Wars has taught us that if you're doing a prequel, you have to throw in a few pointless origins about things nobody really wondered about. I wouldn't be looking for clues from the actor's physical appearance. Elrond and Galadriel don't look like
they're supposed to Hugo Weaving or Cait Blanchett.
Speaking of whom, I'm coming around to this Galadriel now, but not telling Elrond [spoiler]Halbrand was secretly Sauron[/spoiler]? I can't tell if that's stupidity or pride or some combination thereof. I'm already not looking forward to the scene where all is inevitably and predictably revealed and there a big hoodoo.
No Durin, Disa and the Dwarves. BOOOOO!
I could have done without ten minutes of teary harfoot goodbyes.
Everything else is great. The magic fight was fantastic, the bit with the staff spinning was straight from The Fellowship's magic fight between Gandalf and Saruman. But like Columbo, there's just a few little things that bother me, and that drags it down to quite good.
Half a billion dollary-doos for quite good.
Not helped by nothing in this fantasy show being as epic as that scene in the other fantasy show where an aul' lad hobbles up to his sword nest.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 15 October, 2022, 04:37:13 PM
Quote from: Rara Avis on 15 October, 2022, 12:10:13 PM
Still hate the Harfoots and skipped through their bits.
Gotta assume you're also prejudiced against Ewoks? Where do you stand on Ents?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just realized why I liked Galadriel's mental battle with [spoiler]Hal-Sauron-brand[/spoiler] so much - it reminded me of one of my favorite parts of Farscape - when Scorpius/Harvey was in John's mind.
`
How dare you Sir! I would never stand on an Ent ;)
Actually we might get to see some Entwives in this...
Brilliant show, much better than the incest loving time jumping House of Dragon crud
Yeah that was good stuff. It wasn't knock your socks off/ would recommend to everyone good, especially with the slow start, but was spot on for me.
I'm really pleased with how they've managed the whole business with [spoiler]Sauron[/spoiler] - who we're used to seeing as a dreadful visage, but clearly used to have the ability to appear in a more fair guise, and has always had the ability to manipulate people.
I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense to complain about a piece of art based on how much money was shelled out on it. Money can't buy you love, as famously sung by Newcastle heavy metal quintet Oasis.
I did love how Oasis fused Acid House with Glam Rock but with a Scottish Soul tinge.
Anyway I've just watched the last episode and I loved it - I'm a bit tired and emotional (hungover, that is) but was genuinely teary-eyed at the Harfoots' last scenes.
The [spoiler]Sauron[/spoiler] [spoiler]reveal[/spoiler] - Well, I've known for a long time that most of you people are way savvier than me when it comes to predicting plots, but I just did not see that coming. Even the [spoiler]misdirection[/spoiler] at the [spoiler]start[/spoiler] caught me out hook, line and sinker.
And there's still the dwarf family conflict to be resolved. Very much looking forward to more.
Guardian review:
"Now it's over, let's come out and say it: The Rings of Power was a stinker. The world's most expensive show – which looked like an episode of Hollyoaks, only with woeful acting – was so inept that every episode left you sniggering."
hmmm ...
i sort of agree. i just don't see what this glossy and often beautiful-looking production - albeit one that was also often clumsily performed and clunkily written - had to offer anyone coming to the party for the first time.
i liked it, just about and all in all. but a billion bucks needs more than the likes of nerdy me to kind of like something.
Quote from: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 17 October, 2022, 03:59:04 PM
i liked it, just about and all in all. but a billion bucks needs more than the likes of nerdy me to kind of like something.
Well, yes - the only thing that matters if whether the richest/second richest* person in the world likes it, them being a LotR fan and the bankroller.
* depending on what Elon and Jeff's shares are doing this week.
all surface no feeling, as the song had it.
Probably the worst written TV show I've ever watched. Complete garbage that took a giant shit on Tolkien's works. Bravo, Mr Bezos. Bravo.
"looked like an episode of Hollyoaks" - Nope, don't think it did.
"Woeful acting" - Nope. Certainly some dialogue that seemed clunky but Tolkien uses a lot of archaic languages so some things will sound odd to our ears.
I get that this Guardian reviewer didn't like it but this sort of language and phrasing is internet level shite.
I'm assuming that Hollyoaks has changed a lot since I watched soaps, and now features exploding mountains and elves arguing with dwarves about mithril.
I'm not following the arguments against, though. "This is shit" is not actionable feedback, ma people. That it cost money, and that Jeff Bezos isn't a nice boss to his workers are both true - but they're not arguments against the production.
I enjoyed it, anyway. The next question is: when I binge it in a month or two will I still enjoy it, enjoy it less or enjoy it more?
Quote from: Rusty on 17 October, 2022, 06:05:51 PM
Probably the worst written TV show I've ever watched. Complete garbage that took a giant shit on Tolkien's works. Bravo, Mr Bezos. Bravo.
End.
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 17 October, 2022, 06:34:19 PM
"looked like an episode of Hollyoaks" - Nope, don't think it did.
"Woeful acting" - Nope. Certainly some dialogue that seemed clunky but Tolkien uses a lot of archaic languages so some things will sound odd to our ears.
I get that this Guardian reviewer didn't like it but this sort of language and phrasing is internet level shite.
Oh I now read that. Guardian is terrible always has these type of articles after countless praising.