Could there be 2 mistakes in Sin City?

Thread Zero · 30 May, 2002, 03:28:48 PM

Well being a writer I am into story structure. Now John 'the beast' Wagner is one of the best, no doubt about it. But....

Are these possible mistakes?

S

P

O

I

L

E

R.

1] The female undercover judge was apparently killed by Joe. Remember? Now I think she's the one leading the undercover division. If she returns to Sin City, Linus could spot her. I guess she may not return. Just something to watch out for.

2} This week started with the discovery of Mega City 1 agent Yankee. Now I'm guessing John explains how he was discovered cos last week the judges were looking for him! It seems like there was a prog missing. My guess is, when they capture Danser, she will explain how she killed Yankee and hopefully we'll find out how the judges found him. It is a flashback technique used by writers. Just something we should watch out for.

Cos as it stands, there is a big gap in the cause and effect narrative. One minute the judges can't find Yankee - next minute, here he is!:)

Anyway, still enjoying the story.

scojo

Thread Zero · 30 May, 2002, 03:41:04 PM

Then again on the first page a judge says:

"Yankee regonised her. She was suspicious, went after him. Before he died he managed to swallow the photo slug."

So we know the facts. Maybe it would have been better if a judge had found Yankee at the end of last prog. Makes the narrative flow better. Cos as I say, John has got to explain how the judges found Yankee. All they had to go on, was traces of his blood!

As of this prog, we know that Yankee was found, so the "judges finding Yankee" scene has to be told as a flashback.

As I say, I think it would have worked better if the discovery of Yankee was in real time.

scojo nit picker

Thread Zero · 30 May, 2002, 04:00:44 PM

One last thing.

You see up to this week's Sin City, the story is told in real time. By that I mean all in the present. Then suddenly this week we seem to jump forward in time to the discovery of Yankee.

Don't quite see why that was done. Obviously we can have the flashback where Danser confronts Yankee and tries to escape but I still think it would have been better if an undercover judge had found Yankee in say, the garbage vats, at the end of last week.

Oh well just a thought.

scojo

Oddboy · 30 May, 2002, 04:14:16 PM

I was a bit confused by that. I just assumed my memory was at fault & that I'd forgotten them finding Yankee, but now I'm not so sure - maybe my brain was working properly?
Gonna have to re-read the whole story (so far) in one go tonight to see what's going on.

Thread Zero · 30 May, 2002, 04:35:02 PM

Oddboy,

In my book there are two ways to tell a story. In the present or in the past.

Present is the most common technique. In other words, everything happens in real time. Past uses flashbacks to fill in the missing pieces.

Now the main story is about finding Danser. To do this the judges have to find Yankee. So each week we are getting nearer to finding them both, and the story is told in real time.

Last week at the end, the judges were very keen to find Yankee. But this week we jump a few hours or maybe days ahead to the discovery of Yankee. No mention is made of where he was found!

So John will have to use the flashback technique to tell us how Yankee died and where he was found. Otherwise it isn't going to make any sense. John used this flashback technique when he explained why Crisp took Death from his iso block.

So I'm sure he will explain it!

It's just every week we had "We must find Yankee" and this week we have found him just like that. The sense of urgency has gone!

The easiest way to do it in real time, is to use the old camera technique. Sin city cameras spotted Yankee maybe mortally wounded, trying to escape Sin City. The judges find the film and locate Yankee.

Now my guess is Danser will be captured and explains what happened. Maybe Yankee was undercover as some terrorist and Danser found out he was a judge. He tried to escape, she killed him. But we have to know what she did with the body. The other way is to have Yankee escaping but dying somewhere on the island.

Anyway it just seems to be an unnecessary jump in time.

But I think it's a great story all the same.

scojo

Tex Hex · 30 May, 2002, 04:37:26 PM

Sin City's simmering along nicely. That, however, dosnt mean I dont want SERIOUS ARSE KICKING next week.

Mk13 · 30 May, 2002, 05:22:19 PM

>John has got to explain how the judges found Yankee

Prog 1292, 5th page of the Sin City story - the undercover judge with the unfeasibly large afro is standing over a body on a morgue tray, talking about her late lamented 'uncle'. I think you'll find that's Yankee.

Have to say, I missed it first time round too, but it is there if you read carefully...

Mk13 · 30 May, 2002, 05:28:02 PM

>Anyway it just seems to be an unnecessary jump in time.

Not if it doesn't exist... ;)

Thread Zero · 30 May, 2002, 05:37:21 PM

Is that Yankee?

Blimey!!!

Are you sure? Seems a bit vague. How come she doesn't mention this fact to Dredd on the final page of that part?

Hmmm very very unclear. I would never have realised in a million years. I think it would have been better if Dredd had said "this is Yankee."

How the **** was I supposed to know????

Oh well if you are right...hmmm. Could have been a lot clearer John! Tut tut.

scojo with dodgy eyesight

Thread Zero · 30 May, 2002, 05:48:26 PM

Actually on the last page of part 4, panel 4:

Someone says:

"They were holding agent Yankee's effects in storage. I sent them to the city with the body for analysis."

WITH THE BODY!!!!!!!

So there is the proof. Oh well I was wrong!

But it wasn't exactly clear. Did anyone else realise Yankee had been found?

Or was it just me?

scojo

Thread Zero · 30 May, 2002, 05:49:36 PM

Just to say I thought the body wasn't Yankee!

All this 'uncle' stuff has gone over my head!

Oh I can't take complex storytelling.:)

scojo

satchmo · 31 May, 2002, 04:59:30 AM

There were 2 female Wally Squad judges in part 3,the original agent and Hollister,head of Wally Squad.Dredd says to her "bring another of your undercover people in,posing as Yankee's next of kin" to which she replies "I'll do it myself".Next time we see Hollister shes with Yankees body in the morgue.Maybe she just asked Sin City where he was,and they told her he was dead.Thats the simplest answer.

Thread Zero · 31 May, 2002, 06:49:02 AM

They found him, I know, it just was too vague man.

Not clear writing from John. Sorry but it wasn't.

Why didn't Dredd say "This is Yankee or we have found him."

Please can we have clear storytelling.:)

I can't take it anymore. After seeing Star Wars 2 which doesn't make any sense no matter what people say, and then reading Sin City, my head is gonna blow!

scojo

Tiplodocus · 31 May, 2002, 05:55:14 PM

It all seemed clear enough to me.

And so did Star Wars. And to my eleven year old.

Maybe you should take a bit more time when you read things. Get it all as clear as you can in your head, discuss it with mates who might point out any obvious misunderstandings (e.g. "wally squad at the morgue", "step-dad", "the dialogue wasm't bad") before posting.

Thread Zero · 31 May, 2002, 06:48:13 PM

No way does Star Wars 1 and 2 follow the cause and effect narrative paradigm. Not in a million years.

I loved the way Samuel L Jackson just appeared in that tunnel and then met Dukoo. No security in that amphitheatre eh?

LOL!

Still I enjoyed both movies very much. Great fun. In fact I will go and see Attack again in a few weeks. I may even take a note pad and write script notes cos I didn't get it all!

As for Sin City, fair point. Just seemed a bit vague that's all.

scojo