TPO: The Kim Raymond Enigma

TordelBack · 14 September, 2006, 12:35:30 AM

Da Bish's thoroughly entertaining TPO Blog threw up this gem:

"City of the Damned suffered an ailment common to mega-epics, using four different artists to keep the strip going. Steve Dillon launched the story but Ron Smith, Gibson and Kim Raymond had to be brought in to meet deadline pressures. Grant is still angry about the last of those artist â??Fuck! Fuck! We tried and tried to stop Kim Raymond ever doing Dredd again. We called up every fucking week to complain about it. Some really poor artists have done Dredd and Kim Raymond did the worst Dredds of all. It stank! Iâ??ve seen other Kim Raymond art and it wasnâ??t bad, but it was like he missed the point of Dredd â?? maybe he was trying to rush it out. Ugly art.â??"

Okay, I'll admit, I just don't get it. I know we've been over this before, but what exacly did Alan (and John, presumably) have against Kim Raymond on Dredd? I loved his work at the time, and I think it still holds up well. I'll cite the terrific Rookie Dekker storyline as my key witness. Anyone know what in particular offended them?

Link: http://thrillpoweroverload.blogspot.com/2006/08/hanging-with-halo-jones.html" target="_blank">Bisho-blog

Steve Green · 14 September, 2006, 12:57:45 AM

To be honest, I didn't like Kim Raymond's Dredd much either (not that it means much). It's hard to put my finger on, it was just a bit bland...

I seem to recall really puffy kneepads, and the hardware not being drawn particularly well, or the uniforms for that matter.

I would have liked Dillon to have done the whole lot, but then again I would have liked Ezquerra to have done the whole of the Pit (who wouldn't have)

- Steve

LARF · 14 September, 2006, 01:31:16 AM

Don't think she was that bad...

http://www.2000adonline.com/covers/2000ad/hires/384.jpg">

LARF · 14 September, 2006, 01:32:02 AM

Is this the same Kim Raymond?

Link: http://www.minigalleryworld.com/Kim_Raymond/picture.asp?pid=25057" target="_blank">gallery

+rufus+ · 14 September, 2006, 01:41:45 AM

Larf... Don't forget the Covers were layed out by Robin Smith....

Although I too like some of Kim's Dredd.... though not City of the Damned.
But when artists are brought in at the last minute, they are under pressure, and that can lead to rushed work.
Hey, that's publishing...
:-) R

Jim_Campbell · 14 September, 2006, 02:04:44 AM

"Although I too like some of Kim's Dredd"

I always had Raymond in the same bracket as John Cooper on Dredd ... perfectly good artist, but somehow just not quite right for the strip.

That's really not a criticism of the artist ... some artists just don't work on Dredd. Personally, although I'm a huge fan, I never thought Dave Gibbons' handful of outings on the character ever convinced. Nor Glenn Fabry, for that matter ...

Cheers!

Jim

Leigh S · 14 September, 2006, 02:56:26 AM

Raymonds stuff isnt great in comparison to his(?) contemparies, but its a bastard sight better than a lot of the stuff we saw once Dredd was filling his own magazine...

TordelBack · 14 September, 2006, 03:09:00 AM

Kim = female. I wonder how many times I've learnt and forgotten that fact?

City of the Damned as a whole was an artistic disaster zone, won't be arguing that one, but I genuinely liked stuff like Superbowl, Making of a Judge, the Many Happy Returns one, and of course Gator. I like the look of the improbable sweeping skedways, the curvy bocks and the spiky rope-swinging Dekker. There are far worse offenders, to which list I would have to add Alex Ronald on 'True Grot', and old 'Marmite' Siku on just about anything.

But Jim is spot on - Dredd isn't for everyone, even some of the greats aren't suited (are you listening, Frank?).

paulvonscott · 14 September, 2006, 05:24:42 AM

Signiature on the cover and the paintings look fairly similar.

paulvonscott · 14 September, 2006, 05:26:24 AM

OH, it's a bloke on that site.

A.Cow · 27 April, 2014, 04:40:30 AM

Quote from: +rufus+ on 14 September, 2006, 01:41:45 AM
Larf... Don't forget the Covers were layed out by Robin Smith....

Robin Smith is an OK artist but he's TOTALLY unsuited to comics. His images are far too static, and it drains the life from the page.

TordelBack · 27 April, 2014, 08:35:01 AM

Look at Young(-er) Tordelback dissing Alex Ronald and Siku! What a knob, good job he's not around any more. I believe I must have eaten him. I still agree with him about Raymond though.

And hang on, Kim is a man, right? (here we go again)

Frank · 27 April, 2014, 09:00:53 AM

Quote from: TordelBack on 14 September, 2006, 12:35:30 AM
what exacly did Alan (and John, presumably) have against Kim Raymond on Dredd? I loved his work at the time, and I think it still holds up well. I'll cite the terrific Rookie Dekker storyline as my key witness. Anyone know what in particular offended them?

Wagner's definitely not a fan either:

"Dredd, because he doesn't belong to one artist in particular, seems to get whoever is available, whoever can draw the story in the required time - often short. This has frequently worked to the story's detriment. Dredd's had some right ropey artwork in his time. Why, for instance, give Dredd to an artist like Kim Raymond, who was so obviously unsuited? That's just one example, there have been many. And the wrong artwork can destroy a story"

The common charge appears to be that the very manly Raymond was a last minute fill-in artist and that he either didn't understand the strip or that there was something about his aesthetic which made him inherently unsuitable for Dredd. The mention of John Cooper above sums it up for me; both are more than capable artists whose depiction of Dredd himself are actually pretty good, but who fall some way short of understanding what makes the city and its residents tick, and who struggle with essential elements of the strip like the technology, mutants, and robots.

To be honest, I don't really get the Wagner/Grant absolute detestation of Raymond either, and artists like John Burns and Pete Doherty - whose strengths lie no more in the creation of novel technology or the gruesome depiction of body horror than do Raymond's - have done sterling work on some of the best Dredd stories of all. One of the first Dredd tales that popped through my letterbox as a kid was the single setting character drama of 518's The Interrogation, which Raymond did a great job on, so I've always been indulgent of the elements of his Dredd that are perhaps more suited to Roy Of The Rovers or Mandy.

Steve Green · 27 April, 2014, 09:15:26 AM

I remember reading that it stems from the thinking that Dredd is strong enough to survive the odd unsuitable artist, (maybe in TPO) but yeah I can imagine how frustrating it must be for a scriptwriter.

Picking out Kim Raymond seems a bit unfair, I can think of a few others I didn't particularly like either on Dredd.

Frank · 27 April, 2014, 09:29:01 AM

Quote from: Steve Green on 27 April, 2014, 09:15:26 AM
Picking out Kim Raymond seems a bit unfair, I can think of a few others I didn't particularly like either on Dredd

The strength of Wagner and Grant's invective made me imagine there might be a personal enmity behind their attempts to have him barred from working on Dredd, but there was no love lost between Wagner and the great Ron Smith, and he drew more Dredds than any other artist during the eighties.