The Political Thread

[Professor Bear]

You could likely fill a library with what I still don't know about trans/gender identity issues, but Natalie Wynn's Contrapoints channel on Youtube was a big help.

[JayzusB.Christ]

You could likely fill a library with what I still don't know about trans/gender identity issues

Me and all. Our own Taryn Tails graciously explained quite a bit to me when she was beginning her treatments.  Also, after living for a few months in Thailand, the sight of a transgender person isn't even remotely unusual.

[JayzusB.Christ]

US government workers get paid again, and no wall for Orange Fuck.  I'm addicted to Trump-related schadenfreude .

[The Legendary Shark]

As China's Orwellian Social Credit Score system starts getting its foot in the doors of other countries (like Canada), led by the banking system (of course), at least this bastion of freedom called the UK isn't beginning to get its subjects used to the idea of having government apps on their phones.

Er...

[IndigoPrime]

At least the lesson of Charles bing is to accept them, right? I forget. Maybe it was actually about the trauma it caused Chandler and how it was a selfish act, I really hope it was the former though.

I think it's "point and laugh at them" (them being anyone who's not white, skinny, and entitled), and then at some point realise just how far down the rabbit hole you've gone, and so spend two minutes of an episode dialling back a bit to look good. See also: the horror show that is The Big Bang Theory. (Casual racism, slut shaming, mental health issues, and the like are just so, like, hilarious!)

US government workers get paid again, and no wall for Orange Fuck.

And then in three weeks it all goes to shit again. The British political system may be broken and shite, but the US one is just staggering in the way it operates. Seriously: put through a damn law that states funding continues at current levels if no votes are made to change it, not that the entire thing gets shut down, you arsing absurd buffoons.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Ah, yeah, I know the whole pantomime with the wall is going to kick off again with bells on, but I just enjoy the cheap and hollow thrill of watching a fool struggling to keep his massive ego inflated.

[Funt Solo]

This BBC article tells of a survey finding: "five per cent of UK adults do not believe the Holocaust took place and one in 12 believes its scale has been exaggerated".

CBBC has done a series of videos in which survivors (or their relatives) recount some of their experiences. 

Whilst it's terribly harrowing material to watch, I think it's worth being educated about.

[Professor Bear]

Speaking as a Northern Ireland native, let me reassure all the mainland forum users that the Troubles weren't that bad.

[IndigoPrime]

Well, Labour and Corbyn just played another blinder! No, hang on – what's the opposite of blinder again?

[Tjm86]

Speaking as a Northern Ireland native, let me reassure all the mainland forum users that the Troubles weren't that bad.

Speaking as a 'legitimate target' during the troubles, I'm assuming that is ironic.

[also, what Army are they going to deploy?]

[The Legendary Shark]

The source added: "Although there is nothing
that can replicate the scale of chaos threatened
by a no-deal Brexit, which will be about a
thousand times worse than the volcanic ash
cloud crisis, this is about the closest example
we have in modern British history.

"The only other thing that would be
comparable would be something like a major
Europe-wide war."

Who the Hell is this "source"? Mek Quake?

Pure fearmongering.

[IndigoPrime]

Not really. We are a country that is linked to the EU in terms of provision. We are used to seamless trade and the benefits that brings, even if we don't really understand the mechanics. And this extends to basically everything: fuel; food; even chemicals to ensure our water is clean. A no-deal Brexit means everything just stops overnight. Shop shelves empty when there's a bank holiday. Now imagine traffic across the Channel drops to a tiny fraction of current movements (which are the estimates in a recently leaked but unreleased report). What do you think will happen, given that the UK is not self-sufficient in food production? (The government's own figures state that British people will have "sufficient calories to survive – that is the new yardstick. I'm sure everyone fancies going on a 1500-calorie max diet, right?)

The reality is that ingredients won't turn up. Within a month, British factories making food will shut down. Shops will still have some produce, but it will be greatly reduced in scale and range. That will become the new normal, like in the Eastern Bloc, or Russia when it got into a spat with the EU. Beyond that, there will be far fewer flights. Most businesses will find themselves unable to enact international trade. (No countries in the world trade on WTO terms alone for good reason.) Britons will instantly lose free movement rights to the EU and EFTA. JIT manufacturing will be destroyed in an instant, because companies expect to get parts mere hours before they need to use them, not to have to hold weeks of stock in warehousing that the UK just doesn't have.

That quote, note, is not saying there will be war. It's stating that the effects of a no-deal Brexit will be as if there has been one. (One alternative is the UK will seem like it's under sanctions.) It's notable that army bases are stockpiling in a major way. They have teams of logistics people, and so don't take this sort of thing lightly. This isn't fearmongering. This is the reality of baking a cake decades ago and now demanding you have your eggs back. You can't do that without destroying the cake, and so you leave with nothing.

[The Legendary Shark]

I don't believe that no deal means no trade. That makes no sense to me. Are European farmers going to refuse to trade with British markets because our servants in Westminster can't find a way of cutting their servants in Brussels into a piece of the profits? Is it going to become unlawful to trade with the UK? I very much doubt it.

I admittedly don't follow this very much because it smells like a huge pile of bullshit to me so I don't understand why a deal is needed anyway. The referendum, as far as I recall, was about leave or remain - not remain or partially leave (which is what leave with a deal seems to be).

We have a country that voted leave and politicians who want to remain, so the politicians seem to be making a complete pig's breakfast of the whole thing in order to bore or scare people into eventually remaining.

Just stop faffing about and leave already - there may be problems arising from Brussels' Pique but nothing that can't be overcome. It's not like we're declaring war on Europe, ffs, or trying to tow our islands out into the middle of the Atlantic to get away from it.

Me? I don't care either way - be ruled by our "servants" in London or be ruled by our "servants" in Brussels? All of them, every last one, they can serve or they can piss off - that's the real issue here.

[IndigoPrime]

I don't believe that no deal means no trade.

I never said it did. It means we are removed from EVERY SINGLE ONE of our existing trade agreements, and therefore become the only country in the world purely on WTO terms. It means we are outside of the single market and customs union that currently ensures we get food, parts, and so on, exactly when we need them. This means that there will be border-based checks that the UK isn't remotely prepared for. With lorries being backed up, traffic will substantially fall from its current levels, and the government has already stated that priority will be given to things like medicine and water cleaning supplies. Food is some way down the list. This means that in the short term, things like salad and fresh fruit will likely become seasonal.

This isn't scaremongering. This is the basic reality of what happens when the UK removes itself from a heavily integrated trading system.

I admittedly don't follow this very much because it smells like a huge pile of bullshit to me

Then perhaps actually do some reading rather than dismissing it out of hand. We are going to lose every single one of our trade agreements in no deal. There will be a trade border around the UK. This is basically the opposite of frictionless trade. Things won't continue as they are today.

The referendum, as far as I recall, was about leave or remain - not remain or partially leave (which is what leave with a deal seems to be).

The question was whether or not to leave the EU. Norway and Iceland are not in the EU, but are in the single market. If you want go all ERG and say we should "leave entirely" every single EU institution, go you. But that does mean no flights. It means the most basic of trading terms. It means, most likely, a recession of the like no-one has ever seen before. It means the poorest will be hit hard, and only a few rich people able to bet against the UK will be fine.

Your reply in this case, sadly, would be worthy of Jacob Rees-Mogg or some other arch-Brexiter. Again: at least do some reading on the basics of frictionless trade (let alone all other deals regarding things like freedom of movement and capital; rights for pilots; cross-border employment for Britons), and see what we are up against come 29 March.

[Jim_Campbell]

JIT manufacturing will be destroyed in an instant, because companies expect to get parts mere hours before they need to use them, not to have to hold weeks of stock in warehousing that the UK just doesn't have.

A warehouse capable of holding nine days' worth of Honda stock would need to be roughly 300,000 sq m — one of the largest buildings on earth. Its floorspace would be equivalent to 42 football pitches, almost three times Amazon's main US distribution centre.