The Political Thread

[Frank]

Don't forget how profitable war is, as well. Not very profitable for those fighting it but a veritable golden goose for those lending the warring nations money. Not that these lenders would in any way lobby, cajole, threaten, manoeuvre or blackmail the governments they lend imaginary money to towards fighting one another simply for profit. Of course not. That would be wrong and our politicians are more than strong enough to resist such undue pressures and temptations.oh shit

There's a perverse logic that dictates that, once lobbyists and the media have terrified and cajoled countries into spunking a good chunk of their GDP on state of the art technology, it'd be a shame not to use it.

Here's Senator John McCain spouting a version of that same line on The World At One (31m 50s) earlier today.

I had to stop at BAE System's Glasgow office recently and took the opportunity to remind the minion I spoke to that he was working for an organisation that is essentially evil, or at least immoral. He didn't seem fussed, and it felt less like sticking it to The Man than being an annoying prick.

[Beaky Smoochies]

The tone of the political conversation and frame of reference in the US is such that European right wingers like Cameron, Merkel and Sarkozy look like black pyjama wearing godless Communists.

Now this is true, the whole U.S. politics things just plain wears me out, it's all hyper-partisanship all the time, I know Americans tend to take things to the n th degree, but really...

I'm politically Right Wing but socially Left Wing, if that makes sense!

I think it does, you're economically and politically conservative but socially liberal, am I right...?

I can't see what made WWI necessary; the Kaiser's actions were motivated by opportunism, rather than the fanatical ideology that drove Hitler to seek world domination. In the long term; diplomacy, sanctions, isolation, and a united front from the many states ranged against the newly formed German nation could have cut to the political and geographical horse trading that eventually settled the matter anyway.

I completely agree, WWI was NOT a necessary war in and of itself, I was referring to America's involvement in it, which was brought about by Mexico aligning themselves with Germany and striking a bargain wherein the territorial sovereignty of the southern U.S. would be threatened in the result of a German victory in that war, but that whole fiasco and utter debacle of a conflict happened because imperial powers just didn't have the sense to back off, so you and I are in complete agreement there...

[Frank]

The tone of the political conversation and frame of reference in the US is such that European right wingers like Cameron, Merkel and Sarkozy look like black pyjama wearing godless Communists.

Now this is true, the whole U.S. politics things just plain wears me out, it's all hyper-partisanship all the time, I know Americans tend to take things to the n th degree, but really...

I'm politically Right Wing but socially Left Wing, if that makes sense!

I think it does, you're economically and politically conservative but socially liberal, am I right...?

I can't see what made WWI necessary; the Kaiser's actions were motivated by opportunism, rather than the fanatical ideology that drove Hitler to seek world domination. In the long term; diplomacy, sanctions, isolation, and a united front from the many states ranged against the newly formed German nation could have cut to the political and geographical horse trading that eventually settled the matter anyway.

I completely agree, WWI was NOT a necessary war in and of itself, I was referring to America's involvement in it, which was brought about by Mexico aligning themselves with Germany and striking a bargain wherein the territorial sovereignty of the southern U.S. would be threatened in the result of a German victory in that war, but that whole fiasco and utter debacle of a conflict happened because imperial powers just didn't have the sense to back off, so you and I are in complete agreement there...

I agree with everything said above. This represents the end of forums. Quick, somebody say something dickish.

[judgefloyd]

three cheers for Jonathan Haidt, that sounds good.
  here in Aus we have an athiest unmarried Prime Minister who is shacked up with her boyfriend but who claims to sincerely believe that marriage is only between a man and a woman.  I find this unconvincing.
  Myself, I'm a form of Christian, but agree with the Trout that people do often use religion as an excuse to behave appallingly.  In general I think the 'all power corrupts' saying applies to institutions as well as people, religions being institutions too. 
  It has been observed* that there isn't a religion in the world that can stop its adherents behaving like scum in the right circumstances.  It has also been observed that it nice people will be nice, ratbags will be rotten, but it takes devout religious belief to make nice people do terrible things.  I think that's true, although I'm sure there are a lot of cases of devout religious belief (or ideological zeal)  making otherwise awful people do nice things

*by Julie Burchill, back in the days when she was witty and readable

[Dandontdare]

Religion is like a large dog. If it's yours it can provide great comfort and security; if it's someone else's it can be scary; but in either case it should be kept away from small children.

[judgefloyd]

that's a good one Dan!

There isn't an innate reason why evangelical Christians have to be right-wing nut cakes.  Jimmy Carter was quite sincerely evangelical and Christian and was always very progressive.  It's a loooooooooooooong (ie, since the early 80s)  time since I've had anything to do with evangelicals, but I remember some of them being very politically varied.

[JOE SOAP]

There isn't an innate reason why evangelical Christians have to be right-wing nut cakes. 

Maybe the desire for a dominating over-seeing presence in one's life and inversely the will to dominate others?

[Beaky Smoochies]

Must...resist...urge...to...respond...

[JOE SOAP]

Self-flagellation?

[Beaky Smoochies]

Nope, Carlsberg...

[Beaky Smoochies]

Jimmy Carter was quite sincerely evangelical and Christian and was always very progressive. 

He's also a rabid anti-Semite whose virulently anti-Israel book in 2007 led to around fifteen of his own employees walking out on him, says it all really...

[Richmond Clements]

Jimmy Carter was quite sincerely evangelical and Christian and was always very progressive. 

He's also a rabid anti-Semite whose virulently anti-Israel book in 2007 led to around fifteen of his own employees walking out on him, says it all really...

you do know that disagreeing with the actions of the state of Israel is not the same as being antisemitic right?

[The Prodigal]

Jimmy Carter was quite sincerely evangelical and Christian and was always very progressive. 

He's also a rabid anti-Semite whose virulently anti-Israel book in 2007 led to around fifteen of his own employees walking out on him, says it all really...

Oh fella please. He is not an rabid anti-semite. Please stop equating the likes of Jimmy Carter with the likes of Hitler. It serves no good end.

[The Prodigal]

Jimmy Carter was quite sincerely evangelical and Christian and was always very progressive. 

He's also a rabid anti-Semite whose virulently anti-Israel book in 2007 led to around fifteen of his own employees walking out on him, says it all really...

you do know that disagreeing with the actions of the state of Israel is not the same as being antisemitic right?

This.

[Beaky Smoochies]

Instead of me answering that last post, I'll let Martin Luther King Jr answer it;

"... You declare, my friend; that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist'.  And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth:  When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- this is God's own truth."

I think the champion of civil rights said it better than I ever could, don'tcha think...?