The Political Thread

[JamesC]

Speaking as someone who has operated CCTV in a very public building and still has day to day experience of it I'd say that CCTV is, on the whole, a pretty good thing as long as the human element remains.
The vast majority of positive use we have gotten from our system is either searching for missing persons (we've had quite a bit of success there) or reviewing events after the fact. Often the CCTV operator will be alerted to an ongoing incident and then the police will review it afterwards to get a good idea of what has happened. It saves a lot of time when there are fights etc. and everyone has a different story about who started it.
Spying on people isn't really something that happens in my experience. You very quickly get to spot things that aren't quite right - even from the corner of your eye - and people just aren't interesting enough to stalk via the cameras.
We keep recorded footage for a month and then it's recorded over. There are lots of forms to fill in if anyone requests to view footage and only a licenced user can share footage from a standalone computer. I think the longest you're allowed to keep footage for is three months (I could be wrong though).

Having said all of that, there are some scary advances which bypass the human controller somewhat. Facial recognition technology is pretty amazing now and is mainly used in conjunction with safer neighbourhood schemes. Once you're on an 'Individuals of Note' list, you'll be flagged up any time you're caught on camera.
There are also programmes designed to flag up odd behaviour - for example if you spend too long in a particular aisle in a supermarket you'll get flagged. Presumably because the system thinks you're a shoplifter waiting for an opportunity to pinch something.
There are also websites where certain CCTV operators can link their live feed to the Internet and users can view it any time live (they won't let you record) in the hope of spotting a criminal and getting a reward. We wouldn't be able to do hat with our licence (I think because our system captures more than a certain amount of public property) but small shops, off licences etc can.



...Don't tell me - TLDR

[Beaky Smoochies]

The sooner we all have our DNA taken at birth and a mirco chip inserted into us the better

Who says that day is far away - http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/cebit-quarter-of-germans-happy-to-have-chip-implants-5590 - it always begins with "the public good" being served until it doesn't, but by then it will be too late!  Of course, an elderly Jew on the isle of Patmos prophesied all this back in 95-96 A.D. so we shouldn't be too surprised... funny how a book many consider to be obsolete and outdated can both keep up with and predict current events so accurately!

I think Reverend Tim Lovejoy put it best; "IT'S IN REVELATION(S), PEOPLE!!!"

[Frank]

"And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six."

It's remarkable, isn't it? St John the Divine is obviously referring directly to micro-chipping of humans here, describing the system and the mark itself with a level of detail which precludes any suggestion that it's the same kind of unfalsifiable, vague nonsense common to authors who definitely were not inspired by the god of the Hebrews, such as the Oracle at Delphi, Nostradamus and Judith Hann.

The passage above could just as easily be understood as the divinely revealed knowledge that one day theme park and festival access would be dependent upon the wearing of a wristband.

[TordelBack]

The Revelation is a sadistic political rant that makes a complete hames of the New Testament - 'god of love' me arse - a series finale spectacle that makes little sense and contradicts much of what has gone before (it'd never happen these days  ). 

However, despite its specifics being contingent on its time and place of writing, like much of the Bible it manages to be powerful enduring stuff, and it derives that power from speaking to human truths.  John's thoughts on centrally issued 'marks' that allow one to participate fully in society reflect a universal fear of the choice between being controlled and being excluded - perhaps understandable for a man exiled from Rome to a volcanic rock in the Dodecanese.  It doesn't have to be divinely inspired or prophetic to have value as a mirror of contemporary culture or human behaviour, and I suspect the wallies that like to map it onto Stars of David or barcodes or microchips or Paypal or whatever it is today are doing John, nasty scrote that he was, an injustice.

(Also fairly sure that John the Divine wasn't a Jew - that's the other one).

[JamesC]

I had my DNA taken (a cheek swab) along with my mugshot, belt and shoelaces after being arrested, in handcuffs, by the British Transport Police.
I was put in a cell for the night and missed the next day of work (I phoned in sick rather than say I was in a police cell!). I hadn't actually done anything wrong but was arrested with a whole group of people after a fight had taken place.
I was released in the morning after a short interview - at the end of which I was told that they knew I wasn't involved after viewing the CCTV.
Make of that what you will. I had to pay out for a single train ticket back to Norwich too, as I'd only had a day return.

[The Prodigal]

I am getting flash backs here to my Northern Irish protestant upbringing filled with Hal Lindsay's takes on Revelation, implanted micro-chips and war against the soviet union.

Revelation is a strange book. There is a very good chance that it wasn't aspiring to be prophetical in any futurist sense at all with its application directed entirely elsewhere.

[Richmond Clements]

http://youtu.be/Tgz5-8chSlk

[Ancient Otter]

I had my DNA taken (a cheek swab) along with my mugshot, belt and shoelaces after being arrested, in handcuffs, by the British Transport Police.
I was put in a cell for the night and missed the next day of work (I phoned in sick rather than say I was in a police cell!). I hadn't actually done anything wrong but was arrested with a whole group of people after a fight had taken place.
I was released in the morning after a short interview - at the end of which I was told that they knew I wasn't involved after viewing the CCTV.
Make of that what you will. I had to pay out for a single train ticket back to Norwich too, as I'd only had a day return.

Bit overkill by the Bill? You'd struggle to get Gardaí to arrest actual criminals over here, never mind rounding up standbyers in the vicinity of a crime.

[Ancient Otter]

Adam Curtis relinked an old article on his blog from two years ago, about the West's relationship with Syria in the 20th century: Link

[Beaky Smoochies]

I am getting flash backs here to my Northern Irish protestant upbringing filled with Hal Lindsay's takes on Revelation, implanted micro-chips and war against the soviet union.
Revelation is a strange book. There is a very good chance that it wasn't aspiring to be prophetical in any futurist sense at all with its application directed entirely elsewhere.

Hal Lindsey is likely totally correct in his interpretation of some eschatological matters, but that's another story... onto the main event, to quote verbatim (NIV);

The Revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

So exactly which part of the above doesn't "aspire to be prophetical in any futurist sense", Prodigal dude?  I love ya dearly and the back-and-forth we've had over time, but if you don't mind me saying so, I sometimes wonder why you even bother calling yourself a Christian at all... do you believe the Bible is inerrant, infallible, and divinely inspired?  If not, you're not a Christian, period... the others on this forum I'd expect the usual nonsense from - the blind leading the stupid basically - but you always were a voice of sanity and reason even though I strongly but respectfully disagree with you on many matters, political and spiritual, if you call yourself by someone's name, it's reasonable to believe in that person's doctrine, no?

God bless you Prodigal my friend, I hope our paths cross one day, and to everyone else here, well... whatever, haha, see y'all in the funny pages...

[TordelBack]

... do you believe the Bible is inerrant, infallible, and divinely inspired?  If not, you're not a Christian, period... the others on this forum I'd expect the usual nonsense from - the blind leading the stupid basically...

Ah, so that'd be the love, tolerance and inclusion shining through.

[Jim_Campbell]

Ah, so that'd be the love, tolerance and inclusion shining through.

Don't you see, TB? He said "dude" which makes his assertion that he and he alone has discerned the path to spiritual truth and all others are found wanting a bit of friendly banter and most emphatically not evidence that he's an unutterable cunt.

Cheers

Jim

[Richmond Clements]

I would invite you, beaky dude, to use this forum  to discuss 2000ad and other comics.
If you what to talk exclusively about Right Wing religious politics, I'm sure there are other forums for that.

[The Prodigal]

I am getting flash backs here to my Northern Irish protestant upbringing filled with Hal Lindsay's takes on Revelation, implanted micro-chips and war against the soviet union.
Revelation is a strange book. There is a very good chance that it wasn't aspiring to be prophetical in any futurist sense at all with its application directed entirely elsewhere.

Hal Lindsey is likely totally correct in his interpretation of some eschatological matters, but that's another story... onto the main event, to quote verbatim (NIV);

The Revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

So exactly which part of the above doesn't "aspire to be prophetical in any futurist sense", Prodigal dude?  I love ya dearly and the back-and-forth we've had over time, but if you don't mind me saying so, I sometimes wonder why you even bother calling yourself a Christian at all... do you believe the Bible is inerrant, infallible, and divinely inspired?  If not, you're not a Christian, period... the others on this forum I'd expect the usual nonsense from - the blind leading the stupid basically - but you always were a voice of sanity and reason even though I strongly but respectfully disagree with you on many matters, political and spiritual, if you call yourself by someone's name, it's reasonable to believe in that person's doctrine, no?

God bless you Prodigal my friend, I hope our paths cross one day, and to everyone else here, well... whatever, haha, see y'all in the funny pages...

Beaky insulting someone in the deepest sense you can think of and then signing off "God bless you prodigal my friend" doesn't really work for me or I suspect most people.

I could say an awful lot more but I am in no mood to turn this into a Prodigal and Beaky pantomime. I really didn't join this place with the intention of wilfully irritating the good people of this forum whose internet company I have rather enjoyed.

[TordelBack]

Don't let it worry you Prodigal, as I'm sure I've said before, your own internet persona is a positive advert for your beliefs, and is far easier to square with following the teachings of the lodging-with-Zaccheus / leper-touching /do-unto-one-of-the-least-of-these-my-brethren / my-Father's-house-has-many-rooms Jesus fellow I've read so much about, than certain other... perspectives.