Prog 2381: A grizzly fate

[Richard]

Wagner is on record as saying he'll never write it.

[A.Cow]

What if the strip was still called Judge Dredd, but it was just about Mega-City One? You'd still have Fargo clones knocking about, but he'd be retired, or CJ, or teaching at the AoL, or dead.

Like Taggart or Blake's 7?  They tried that once with Strontium Dog(s), and it didn't cut the mustard.

Nah, my money is on using clones as a form of regeneration -- as first tried in the Kraken storyline -- keep the lead, but change their character slightly.

Current Rico would be fine to be rebadgerated*, but it'd make more sense to bring in a younger model who would have to learn the ropes, preferably under Rico (and Dolman).  (Even better, make it so the new Dredd is grown directly from cells taken from the dying Dredd; may not make any difference scientifically but it sure adds an authenticity to the new Dredd.)

* (© copyright A.Cow, 2024)

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

Dredd is sci-fi. Problem with aging? Implant his personality in a clone body. In fact, they could kill him and bring him back like that. In fact, there's probably a story there where they're doing that and he doesn't know they're doing it

[AlexF]

At the risk of getting back on topic,
While I too was/am sad about cadet Moon sacrificing herself to save Dredd (which is certainly what seems to have happened, even if Williams later shows that she surived and is rescued, and golly I hope he does that), I guess I have to credit Williams with just writing the story as a thing in itself.

Seems to me the gist is 'what's a foe Dredd hasn't faced before - I know, nature, in the guise of a giant grizzly bear'. And when you have an artist lined up whio is going to absolutely kill that scenario, you run with it. And as a standalone story, it makes sense that Dredd can't just 'win' in the end, he has to lose something, and the idea Williams mustered for that function was a promising cadet (other options could have included: letting a perp get away; giving up some kind of secret weapon to a perp; making a deal with the Sovs - or something?). Anyway, he went the emotional route, which only works if he makes us care about the cadet in question, and judging by the response on this thread he achieved that in spades!

For sure we long-term readers could interrogate the fact that there's a LONG history of 'promising young cadet = black or woman', but in each one-off instance it works, I guess?

All that said, my main reaction on the final page of this mini-epic was grumpy rather than sad.

[IndigoPrime]

If that was the intent, it is a sliver away from fridging. At best, it's manipulative. Like a movie that introduces a bunch of characters and LOVEABLE DOGGO. And then, like clockwork, LOVEABLE DOGGO IS DEAD.

I think it's also important to separate impact/sadness from a kind of anger/resignation. Arguably, "and only Dredd was left standing" is the least imaginative ending we can get in this kind of story. It's cliche. Dredd literally being saved by the cadet who survives ("I knew I liked you.") and then who goes on to be a surprising support cast member (given her not being the flashy one) would have been more interesting to me. But there you go. What's done is done, and I'm sure Williams wrote the strip he wanted, for the reasons he wanted to. And I at least liked all but one page of it, so that's overall a win.

[Funt Solo]

In a brutal calculus, Dredd was correct in his choice of cadet. He survived, after all.

I'm calling this one of the strongest Dredd stories ever. Tragic, yes, but I'm not following the notion that it somehow shouldn't be allowed, or has broken any rules of character or setting.

[BPP]

Isn't Williams just setting up Dredd as motivated to do something by the endless body count of those near to him? The old testament before the new...

[IndigoPrime]

But motivated to do what, exactly?

[Tjm86]

That MC1 would be screwed without Dredd, even though he's ultimately largely responsible for the city being in bits?

How so (genuine question)?

(I agree with the first bit. I don't understand how he's ultimately largely responsible for the city being in bits)

That's a fair point.  Perhaps a scattered review of those events that have had a major impact on MC1?

Okay, so the Apocalypse War was initiated by the Sovs.  Half the city decimated in a "total-nuke-out".  Dredd 'responsible'?  Doubtful.

Necropolis - dark Judges take over the city and cheerfully proceed to murder the population.  Dredd took the long walk off the back of what he saw as questionable decisions by the Chief Judge and those around him.  Again, not really Dredd.

Inferno (much as we would rather ignore this altogether) - psychotic criminal judges take over the city and just go nuts.  All have it in for Dredd but can we really blame him?

Judgement Day - inter dimensional Zombie Lord decides to turn the planet into a global version of the living dead. Nope, can't blame Dredd for this one.

Total War - bunch of lunatic terrorists decide to nuke their way out of Judicial rule.  Okay, you can argue the judges were the reasons they decided nuclear surgery was the only way to excise their control but as solutions go there is something a bit askew here.  Dredd's responsibility is limited to his being part of the judicial system.

Day of Chaos - group of former Sov City operatives decide to get their own back on MC1 by initiating a biological attack.  They all hold Dredd responsible for what happened to their city and his final retaliation.  We can debate the ethics of Dredd's decision until the cows come home but ultimately they had initiated a war against MC1 and invaded.  You can certainly argue that it was Dredd's actions that precipitated this event. 

Possibly the only time it is fair to say he was directly 'responsible'.  Admittedly a more nuanced approach would have argued that the Sovs started it, Dredd did what he thought was necessary and the Sovs chose to harbour a grudge for decades before taking it out on MC1.  That being the case, once more we end up with Dredd shouldering far less of the blame.

Is it fair then to say that Dredd is responsible for the shape of MC1 or is it more accurate to say that despite his seemingly unlimited powers he is actually impotent, or at least far less powerful, against forces, powers and events that transcend his more parochial role as judicial arbiter?

If anything, these events point to the limitations of the law.  In fact, one could argue that ultimately that is a them that runs through Dredd.  The whole premise as originally conceived took the most extreme alternatives expounded at the time and created an entire system and iconic character around them. 

Folded into this was a future scape not a million miles removed from where we are today.  You only have to look at some of the debates around crime in major cities across the UK and US (amongst other nations) to see how prescient the concept actually was.

Dredd has only ever been able to hold the tide at bay, so to speak.  Everyday crime that can be dealt with swiftly and simplistically is possibly the limits of his powers.  He struggles with exactly the same problems current judicial systems do when it comes to organised crime, never mind state-backed criminal activity aimed at undermining opponents.

Given these limitations, his culpability is certainly highly questionable.  At least that would be my take on this.  Feel free to dismantle my arguments though.

[Le Fink]

Given these limitations, his culpability is certainly highly questionable.

Thanks for the in-depth analysis! I feel the same way, hence the question. I'm not sure what the alternative was to nuking East-Meg 1, other than surrendering MC-1. And his recommendation to get boots on the ground to investigate prior to DoC was overruled.

[nxylas]

But motivated to do what, exactly?

Motivated...(music swells)...to...sing!

Sorry, last night's Doctor Who has fried my brain.

[AlexF]

Folded into this was a future scape not a million miles removed from where we are today.  You only have to look at some of the debates around crime in major cities across the UK and US (amongst other nations) to see how prescient the concept actually was.

I'mn intrigued by this. As I understand it, in the US and UK violent crime, at least, has MASSIVELY gone down in the lifetime of the existence of 'Judge Dredd' the comic strip. Whether this is due to increased powers that police/justice system has I don't know, but I doubt it? Don't think that's an argument people make?

Possibly there's a link in that crime has gone down as surveillance has massively gone up - CCTV cameras so normal we don't even notice them, and so on. So basically, Wagner's idea of PSU is connected to real-world crime stats, but otherwise for me Judge Dredd is more about pursuing a Conservative's dream about what law-enforcement might look like, not one based on actually observing the world...

I should note, I have not (yet) read Molch-R's book on the subject, so I'm sure I'm missing lots of important facts and insights!

[Vector14]

Far from predicting the future of crime ridden cities I think Mega City 1 was more a version of the, then present-day New York and other US cities of the late 70's. Or at least the movie version of them you'd see in the UK.

There is a very steep decline in violent crime in the UK from 1995 onwards. It was steeply up until 95! Perhaps the changing situation in Northern Ireland had a strong influence on the numbers.

[Vector14]

Far from predicting the future of crime ridden cities I think Mega City 1 was more a version of the, then present-day New York and other US cities of the late 70's. Or at least the movie version of them you'd see in the UK.

There is a very steep decline in violent crime in the UK from 1995 onwards. It was steeply up until 95! Perhaps the changing situation in Northern Ireland had a strong influence on the numbers.

Just correcting what I wrote here. I see that violent crime trends declining from the early to mid nineties is a trend across western countries in general, so it's nothing to do with the troubles in NI.
There is no universally accepted explanation for why crime rates are falling.

Apologies for being completely off topic.

[Stegron]

Long-time lurker here - the Dredd vs Bear story was great fun, but I'm utterly baffled by something. Nothing to do with the tale itself, but the outcome. Suddenly we're back in MC-1 with Iron Teeth as if nothing happened.

But the little prelude episode, with Logan telling Dredd about the sensitivity of the location for the secret mission he's about to undertake... a mission that required two other judges, plus cadets. So what the hell was that all about? I genuinely thought that 'Tooth & Claw' was the start of one of those multi-story stealth epics that Dredd does so well: start off with Tooth & Claw, Moon gets offed, Dredd's on his own in rough territory, and he's got to finish the mission on his own, cut off from backup and without any resources.

Anyone else get the impression that Iron Teeth is an inventory story, hastily thrown in until the next part of whatever Rob William's has planned for the continuation of whatever Dredd's mission in the Northern Radlands was?