What Makes A Mega-Epic?

[Funt Solo]

What is the definition of a mega-epic?

If Total War is a mega-epic (coming in at 72 pages over 12 progs) then so is Darkside (same stats), but does anyone consider Darkside to be a mega-epic?

Block Mania was only 55 pages over 9 issues (although that is tied so closely to The Apocalypse War that it's difficult to consider it as a lone story).  If 55 pages was the measure of an epic, then Goodnight Kiss and Destiny's Angels aren't far off.

If we leave aside statistics, is it instead what happens in the story that marks it out as epic?  Total War had great implications for MC-1 and was historically important.  Destiny's Angels less so.  There was (pardon me) fallout from Total War.

IMO, here's the list of mega-epics (with bracketed page counts):

(164) The Cursed Earth  
(129) [Judge Caligula]    
(163) The Judge Child  
(208) Block Mania & The Apocalypse War
(199) Oz
(297) Necropolis (& Tales of the Dead Man & The Dead Man)
(150) Judgement Day
(165) Wilderlands
(191) [The Pit]
(285) Doomsday

epic-cases
(104) [Luna 1]
(093) [The Mega-Rackets]

mini-epics
(93) City of the Damned
(73) Inferno [although this never really happened]
(60) Crusade
(72) Darkside
(72) Beyond the Call of Duty
(??) Sector House
(72) Helter Skelter
(78) Sin City
(72) Total War

micro-epics
(41) Robot Wars
(50) Destiny's Angels
(47) Cry of the Werewolf
(45) The Graveyard Shift
(40) Dredd Angel
(43) Midnight Surfer
(42) Death Aid
(48) Book of the Dead
(57) The Exterminator
(54) Midnight Kiss
(42) Dead Reckoning
(48) The Scorpion Dance
(49) Revenge of the Chief Judge's Man
(42) The Satanist
(49) Terror

[Dudley]

Epic sweep, epic scale.  

Doesn't have to involve millions of deaths, but should take place across multiple locations and have a very large cast.  

Should have time for side-plots and sub-plots that usually (if written by Wagner) suddenly turn out to have enormous significance to the main plot.

Should involve a threat to the city or the world.  

Doesn't have to be a destructive threat as such, could be corruption etc.

Should not involve anyone called "Jonni".

[Oddboy]

Also worth considering multi-segment stories that build up to make something more 'epic'
-the three Chief Judge's Man stories together would clock in at 24 + 24 + 49 = 97 pages - so I'd count that as 'Mini-Epic' rather than "Revenge of the CJM" being a micro-epic and the others not counted at all.
Similarly, Total War & Terror together comes to 121 - a Mega-epic sized story.
Or the Mechanismo trilogy - totals 164 pages - One megaepic or three micro epics? Certainly, the second Mechanismo story is set the day after the first one, although published a couple of months later, so probably should be seen as one story, even if 'Bodycount' is discounted.

[Funt Solo]

Oddboy:  I'd have to defer to your superior knowledge of late Dredd (re the Chief Judge's Man stories).  In other words, I think you're right.  I'd already bundled obviously linked stories together (eg The Day The Law Died and about the 3 or 4 progs prior to that are all "Judge Caligula"), so a precedent has been set.

Joining stories seperated by time (eg Terror and Total War) is a matter for judgement.  For example, should Pirates of the Black Atlantic be a part of Block Mania and The Apocalypse War, as it has a clear link to both?  The only thing that stopped me was the span of progs inbetween.

My list didn't include a close look at the Megazine, so Mechanismo (certainly) should be on the list somewhere.

My selection criteria was pretty basic:  40-60 pages for micro, 61-99 pages for mini, 100+ for mega.  All of this meant that (unfortunately) The Haunting Of Sector House 9 never got on the list, and neither did the "sequel", Warlord (the one with the Seven Samurai).  Now, if I joined those together...

[Satanist]

For me a Mega-Epic should have 20odd episodes. I'd love a big Dredd story that spanned six months worth of progs. Though I did enjoy the total war saga.

[Byron Virgo]

I'm not sure that Hunting of Sector House 9 and The Warlord, since the only connection between them is that Psi Amplifier, but you could include the episode where McGruder resigns (by Cliff Robinson) as part of the Warlord story (incidentally, it'll be great to read all this stuff finally collected together when the Dredd reprints start).

Warlord was the point when I started to read 2000AD, by the way.

[Funt Solo]

Part of me is tempted to try and figure out all the "epic-arcs", but something tells me I'd just tie myself in dredd-shaped knots.

For a start, where would I stop?  I'd have to include Anderson Psi, the Meg, 2K, Shimura...

Then there's things like Mechanismo, which tie through to Wilderlands and beyond, and The Dark Judges, which crop up all over the place.

It's interesting to remember the smaller classics, though, such as The Graveyard Shift (which sort of ties into Rumble In The Jungle and Sunday Night Fever).

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

These days? More than 6 episodes.

See also:

Link: http://www.2000adonline.com/?zone=fan&page=messagethread&choice=14295&Replies=23" target="_blank">Will you still need me, will you still read me?

[Carlsborg Expert]

The only way an epic is interesting to you lot seems to be where we have this consistant Cursed Earth scenario, where its;Different Town/different story,style.So the charactors are changing each week and is infact different Dreddtales tied together to make one huge story with a bit of clever editing.

Other than mewling for long war epics, you get bored when the scene changes too slow.But Im yet to read all these "epics" .So dont take me to be a pedant.Please.Im just saying what I feel hasn't been said and may well in the infinate structure of things,ought to be.

Don't feel Im being Devils Advocate for attention sake. It is for my own curiosity,the reason why other readers have a view they do,have.Epics thread has been sparking my debate receptors and Ive been looking for a statement from myself that could be understood.I may have been over zealous with reacting on wrong thread.

Dont be offended,by my way of putting the statement either I talk like that, mano oh mano*.Theres no malice intended.

*to men of course:)

[Funt Solo]

Purely for the sake of argument, let's say that the following are the major epics from 2K Judge Dredd (only delving into Meg territory with the crossovers) in chronological order:

The Cursed Earth
[Judge Caligula]
The Judge Child
Block Mania & The Apocalypse War
Oz
Necropolis
Judgement Day
Wilderlands
[The Pit]
Doomsday
Terror & Total War

So, out of 11 chosen epic storylines, only 2 of them are what you describe as "different town / different story style":  The Cursed Earth and The Judge Child.

There are over 4 times as many epics that do not follow the style you suggest, and yet are held in high regard by many fans.

Further, only 2 are pure war epics:  The Apocalypse War and Judgement Day.  Arguably (and admittedly) you could describe several of the others as war epics, but they tend more to the style of invasion, occupation and insurgency tales.  Eg. Necropolis & Doomsday.

However, some of the most popular epics are non-war tales:  Oz (sport, celebrity, revenge & insurgency), Wilderlands (exploration & intrigue) & The Pit (thriller).

Of course, armed conflict is apparent in nearly every single episode of Judge Dredd, so a suggestion that an epic storyline would or should not contain an element of it seems odd, frankly.

[Queen Firey-Bou]

for me a mega epic, covers every emotion, good bad & all shades of grey inbetween, is about sin redemption, forgiveness, growth decay, cause effect, self determination & random chance, chaos & complexity, is about duty , responibility, burdens & guilt, freedom, flight. the depths of despair & hieghts of ecstasy. an epic affects generations, creates cycles to be perpetuated or broken, life, love , hate , death. war & peace.

yup. move over Dredd, thats an average week at my house.

[Carlsborg Expert]

Of course, armed conflict is apparent in nearly every single episode of Judge Dredd, so a suggestion that an epic storyline would or should not contain an element of it seems odd, frankly.

It was the consistancy of armed combat I was aiming my point at.(And it was to contrast not to negate,in a Steven Berkhoff manner.)


The gun-toting stuff is excellent,exactly why I buy the mag.

I wanted to see more clarity in your definitions as there seemed to be bundles of "epics" and not many examples of your insight to each. You may not have that as an intention for this thread,if so its my bad.
All only as a need to be headed up to seeking said storys from an unbiased non-profit based point of view.
I did want to join the debate full on,but Ive niether the source material nor the inclination to trust corperate marketeers on their "opinions" of their products. Id rather find out through discussion wether I want to read many of the storys I have missed.Then quite possibley collect the damn lot if 77% of the material is indeed as good as I think it can be.

Fair enough?I mean carry on with your own level,by all means.You know where you are coming from and who you are wanting to connect to with you question about the AD epics. I dont want massive details or even reviews.More, I think on their effectualism.Spat of their direction or story arcs.As I dont have a clue on where a series of story arcs through a story can be ordered into priority.
I am thankful that is what you have taken time to do for me.
Fair enough?

[Funt Solo]

I've told you that my sister thinks her dog is gay, right?