Conspiracy Theory Debate

[Rara Avis]

"Do your own research" seems to be a phrase mostly parrotted by people who've never actually been involved in doing any kind of research into anything. What they've accomplished isn't even a literature review let alone a piece of actual research. Watching videos of random people on youtube ranting about stuff from their spare bedroom does not constitute research. I really hate that phrase because it devalues actual research. It is no more research than the crap Hubbard published for Scientology was research/technology.

Interestingly I see a lot of parallels between Scientology and things like QAnon.  Not least that Trump's speechs actually sound a lot like Hubbard's lectures (I went through a phase of listening to lectures/sermons by cult leaders because I find cults really fascinating). But also in the way it constructs layers of story one on top of the other and rewards adherants for "discovering" the even greater "truth" as they make advances in their "research". It's brainwashing/indocrination. Scientology was just a bit more brazen in how it extracted $s from its adherents - plenty of ad revenue being directed at some of the more popular QAnon vloggers and websites though so I'm sure there are some just playing a part for the $s.

People need to read Robert Anton Wilson's Illuminatus trilogy - actually given their ability to misinterpret things like Fight Club maybe that's a terrible idea.

As per the article I posted earlier this is what makes it so dangerous - because believers seek out this information for themselves it's more valid. They don't see themselves as being indoctrinated because no one forced this on them - they willingly drink the kool aid. In terms of research they ignore anything that contradicts their opinion and rarely have credible sources. Or where they do have incredible sources the content is taken out of context and repurposed for their argument. One example was a link I was sent (that I no longer have access to) which talked about a meeting in the 1980s in New York organised by the UN which discussed what would happen and how countries would deal with a global pandemic but of course was turned into the blueprint for Covid. These opinions are given the same weight as proper peer reviewed scientific research. A conspiracy theory is given the same weight as a scientific theory. It's just bonkers. And things certainly got worse under Trump because he is the golden boy for Q Anon - he is the only one fighting to topple the pedophillic deep state. Yeah, the same guy that has been caught on camera suggesting that women should be grabbed by the ... you know.. and was friends with Jeffrey Epstein for several years where he too is alledged to have the enjoyed the company of much younger women i.e children. And the tactics they employ are the same ones he used -  avalanche of bullshit and if that doesn't work just says it's a lie and only you know the truth.

[Professor Bear]

I took it that while Q was single username, a group or several groups of people were collaborating through a discord (aptly named) to decide what truth would be revealed by the account. Kind of like reverse sock puppetry.

It wouldn't be the first time the far right have done this.  I forget the name of the most high-profile offender - was it "Phillip Cross"? - but there's supposedly incredibly prolific Wikipedia editors who edit 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, and compose their edits incredibly quickly, but it isn't major edits, it's tiny things like how something is phrased, when/where certain facts are presented in the descriptions of contentious events, what constitutes "official" sources, and so forth - basically, there are people who work day and night to make sure Wikipedia articles are aligned with the exact same political narratives espoused by Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales, a notorious tea-party libertarian.
To be clear, though, I'm not saying these editors definately are shared accounts, as it's possible that Mr Cross really is just a regular man.  Who hasn't slept or gone to the lavatory since 2007.

[IndigoPrime]

Wikipedia is astonishing in terms of the way it operates. It's a good place to find out about stuff in a broad and general sense, but it without doubt should not be considered a single source of truth. There's a famous videogame on there which incorrectly assigns credit, because the people arguing in the Wikipedia Talk section don't rate certain sources or don't believe the person who actually created the game did so. It's mind-boggling. (I interviewed the creator and the bloke who got the credit, who in the call was quite open about how things played out. It wasn't a secret.)

Beyond even the inherent biases built directly into its system are issues with the worthiness of articles, which are applied extremely unevenly. From a comics standpoint, some of the Hachette series are on Wikipedia, but the Transformers article was removed. Why? God knows.

[The Legendary Shark]

Maybe it was deleted due to an oblique reference to the conspiracy theory that machines are all secretly robots. One can see how such a dangerous article might be erased...

[sintec]

The snow in Texas is fake apparently https://9gag.com/gag/apNp4WD

Looks like they think they've done a science.

I despair... I can't help but feel the education system has failed these folks.

[Funt Solo]

The snow in Texas is fake apparently https://9gag.com/gag/apNp4WD

Looks like they think they've done a science.

I despair... I can't help but feel the education system has failed these folks.

*weeps*

[Funt Solo]

Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads - summary: illegal bastich clears a bit of rainforest that he doesn't own, sells it on Facebook, who say there's nothing they can do about it because they're just trying to make everyone friends, y'know?

This is mostly why I hate conspiracy theories - because there are plenty of real conspiracies* in the world to get het up about without having to imagine new ones.

* Although this particular example is just open market capitalism ... gone mad.

[Tjm86]

One example was a link I was sent (that I no longer have access to) which talked about a meeting in the 1980s in New York organised by the UN which discussed what would happen and how countries would deal with a global pandemic but of course was turned into the blueprint for Covid.

Heaven help them if they ever get anywhere most nation's Ministries of Defence where they regularly war-game these sorts of events to try and work out what to do and how best to manage it.

The exception being the UK that forgot to include the scenario in which the most incompetent bunch of half-wits ever managed to seize control of the government and do everything in their power to accelerate the spread.   

[Rara Avis]

There was something else about how the UN all got together and the leader of each country agreed to this (making up Covid and keeping everyone inside for sinster reason). I'm really not sure what the endgame is though - they want to microchip us and keep us in fear so we are docile but keep spending money? Thanks to the prevelance of social media and smart phones would a microchip even be necessary? And getting 184 people to agree on anything and then keep it a secret? In exchange for what? I really don't know what the objective of all this is except to spread misinformation and distrust.

[Tjm86]

Well, I've said this before and I'll say it again.  Terry Pratchett deserves the final word on Conspiracy Theories and Government Involvement.  [The present Tory 'government' surely has to be the final word on the matter.  Considering that they can't even organise a Hard-core Bacchanalia at SA Brains ...]

It's amazing how good governments are, given their track records in almost every other field, at hushing up things like alien encounters. One reason may be that the aliens themselves are too embarrassed to talk about it.

It's not known why most of the space-going races of the universe want to undertake rummaging in Earthling underwear as a prelude to formal contact. But representatives of several hundred races have taken to hanging out, unsuspected by one another, in rural corners of the planet and, as a result of this, keep on abducting other would-be abductees. Some have been in fact abducted while waiting to carry out an abduction on a couple of aliens trying to abduct the aliens who were, as a result of misunderstood instructions, trying to form cattle into circles and mutilate crops.

The planet Earth is now banned to all alien races until they can compare notes and find out how many, if any, real humans they have actually got. It is gloomily suspected that there is only one - who is big, hairy, and has very large feet.

The truth may be out there, but the lies are inside your head.  Hogfather

[Funt Solo]

Another real conspiracy, this time involving Pontins banning Irish-sounding surnames from making bookings - and no, you've not gone back in time to either the 1800s or the 1960s as this is all quite current.

But don't let anyone tell you that England has a bigotry problem. They don't have a problem with any of those people - because they don't let them in!

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

The Irish would never do anything like that. In fact we only indefinitely detain let foreigners in our holiday camps.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Another real conspiracy, this time involving Pontins banning Irish-sounding surnames from making bookings - and no, you've not gone back in time to either the 1800s or the 1960s as this is all quite current.

But don't let anyone tell you that England has a bigotry problem. They don't have a problem with any of those people - because they don't let them in!

Fecking hell, I saw that in a WhatsApp group yesterday and thought it was from the 50s or 60s.  My surname, and one of the other guys in the group, were included.

[radiator]

The only conclusion I can come to is that there's no point in trying to rationally understand conspirational thinking - it's an entirely different way of thinking about the world, and one that isn't bound by logic or rationality.

Most people think rationally - ie they look at the evidence in front of their eyes and they come to conclusions based on that.

People prone to conspiracy theories think the other way around - they make their conclusions first (generally based on emotion or irrational prejudices/fear) and then bend their perception of reality to fit.

This is why arguing with conspiracy theorists is a frustrating and largely pointless exercise - they have already made their mind up, and if challenged will just move the goalposts of the argument. The virus is fake. Or it's real but the severity of it is overblown. Or it's real but wearing a mask or taking a vaccine will actually make you more ill.

It's been very sad to see many friends and acquaintances go down the Covid conspiracy rabbit hole. The fact that the motive behind governments enforcing social distancing and mask wearing and willingly trashing the economies of their own countries in the process is at best completely inscrutable (usually something vague about how they're 'trying to control us') is immaterial.

A few of these people are genuinely desperate - so I have a lot more sympathy for them, but for others it has revealed that deep down they are ultimately very selfish, self-centered people. By all means quarantine the vulnerable and elderly, but it shouldn't directly affect their life or make them have to make any actual sacrifices. Everyone else can take the vaccine, but I'm not going to. So they indulge in conspirational fantasies to justify their selfish behaviour. And this is what is generally meant by 'doing your own research' - it basically just means scouring the shadier parts of the internet for any shred of spurious 'evidence' you can use to justify your prejudices. It's very sad.

And I understand why people don't trust the 'mainstream media'. I don't think anyone intelligent does. BUT there's a pointed difference between having a healthy skepticism and understanding that any news source will have an inherent bias and agenda, and just rejecting the entire thing and listening to some nutter on the internet instead.

[TordelBack]

The Irish would never do anything like that. In fact we only indefinitely detain let foreigners in our holiday camps.

Yeah, the irony is crushing. Pontins: No Irish. Mosney: Non-Irish.