Last movie watched...

[pictsy]

A Nightmare on Elm Street 5: The Dream Child

Fuck this film.

I didn't go into it much when I wrote about 3, but Freddy's backstory is fucking repulsive.  It has gross attitudes towards mental illness and children of rape.  It also has the disgusting notion of criminality being genetic.

5 is all about this backstory.  Throw in several instances of misogyny and we're already way past the point of calling this problematic.  It is also really fucking dumb, with many parts of the film not making sense or alternatively going absolutely nowhere.  This isn't about as bad as what came before, this is a whole new level of bad.  The effects are shit, the directing is shit, the writing is shit.  Everything positive I could say about the previous films is not only missing, but considerably worse.

It's interesting to note that this is where the wisecracking starts.  I thought it would've started in 2 given how ubiquitous it is in references to the franchise, but nope, this is where it starts.  And it is awful.  It's not even wisecracking.  It's just Freddy saying things vaguely related to the "ironic" death that is happening on screen.  Constantly.  Without break.  It's annoying.  And stupid.

I would like to find some positives in this film, but it doesn't deserve my good will.  Fuck this film and it's revolting bullshit presented in it's shit veneer.

Well, now the bar has been set so low the question now is can Freddy's Dead:  The Final Nightmare possibly be worse?  Also, hasn't Freddy been dead all this time?  Dumb title doesn't bode well, but 2's title is dumb as well, so maybe it's the masterpiece of the entire franchise.

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

It is worse. But New Nightmare is, from memory, okay. Albeit a bit meta and self indulgent. It's almost a stand alone film, so you might do yourself a favour and skip to it.

[Rara Avis]

This one gave me the heebie jeebies - that scene where he comes over the hill in his rigout with that bag on his head absolutely terrified me. Did you know they recently decoded his second massage?

https://youtu.be/-1oQLPRE21o

ZODIAC from 2007 and directed by David Fincher. Which is very good if twenty minutes too long. Genuinely didn't know what to expect on going in... thought it would be more like MINDHUNTER than it was. It actually ended up quite like Close Encounters, coincidentally..

Mostly understated turns from all the leads (and at one point you aren't sure who the leads are) but the decades long nature of the story means you don't get too long to settle on the consequences of one sequence before jumping two years on. This also means some of the callbacks can't be exactly subtle.

I know the nature of the beast makes this a predominantly all male, all white cast but you'd think you could composite some characters to add a bit of diversity.

[pictsy]

Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare

Well.  I don't think it was as bad as 5.  It's very idiotic, largely abandons sense and continuity.  The film goes off on it's own bizarre tangent and I found myself starting to enjoy it after half way through.  It's really hard to put this one into words.  It's not a good film, it has some ablism that was just mean spirited and pointless and it looks cheap and terrible.  It's also all over the place that it's probably the most dreamlike experience any of these has been.

I managed to get through the six main films and not bail out and I feel kinda pleased about that.  The last film will be Freddy vs. Jason.  I'm skipping New Nightmare because I have seen it before and I already know I don't like it.

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

Pictsy

Are you watching the Elm St films via an official source or through... alternative... means? You've made me want to watch them again!

[Barrington Boots]

Gotta agree with Pictsy that Dream Child is the worst by miles. It's been a long time since I've seen it but I'm unsurprised that it's got some horrible attitudes expressed in it too.

Freddy vs Jason however is ace!

[pictsy]

You've made me want to watch them again!

It's been an interesting journey.  Dream Child is an endurance and Freddy's Dead is an utter mess (although it did end up entertaining me), otherwise I'd say the other four are certainly worth rewatching.  Pretty certain I will in the future sometime.

[pictsy]

Freddy vs. Jason

Well that was garbage, but pretty much entirely what I thought it would be.  I can't really talk about the Friday the 13th part of this film.  I have only ever seen Jason X.  The actual vs. bit is ok, needed to be a lot more of it in the film.  The 00's stuff was annoying and very 00's.  One notably unnecessary part was one character was in an abusive relationship and then was ever getting raped or was about to be raped when she died.  Through in some casual racism and homophobia, shouting and annoying teenagers and plot points that don't really go anywhere and you've got that very special 00's charm.  Despite being no expert I think Jason was on diet pills as well.  I don't know whether I like slimfast Jason or not.  The Jason Mewes homage is weird.

It kinda confirms a thought I had been having through this watch through.  The cultural impression of Freddy and the Nightmare films is largely based on the last two movies.  That's really sad.  I was wondering when the Freddy I was expecting would show up.  Awful wisecracking and calling every woman he meets a bitch several times over didn't start in earnest until those two films.

Some thoughts about the franchise, then.  2 is the best, easily and by a long way.  4 was surprisingly entertaining and on a first viewing is my second favourite.  1 is a good start and an interested film on its own, but the acting did get on my nerves.  6 was kind of an entertaining mess that took 45 minutes to draw me in... pretty much once all the killing was done with.  Freddy vs. Jason is very dumb but in a watchable way, I guess.  3 had good visual effects and set design but some mean spirited garbage and a stupid story.  5 can go fuck itself.

Overall I'd say I enjoyed the franchise.  5 pissed me off, but I think it was worth watching all the others.  It has it's ups and downs and has a good premise, although not always fully realised.  It had a lot of unfulfilled potential, but is certainly better in parts than it has any right to be.  None of these films are masterpieces, not in cinema, horror genre or even slasher genre, but there is a lot of diversity with each film not really resembling any of the others. 

The real question is, would I have been better off just watching Casablanca?

[Smith]

Tales from the crypt (1972). Nice collection of stories.

[Barrington Boots]

Freddy vs. Jason
Well that was garbage, but pretty much entirely what I thought it would be...

With my scheduled evening plans cancelled, I also watched Freddy vs Jason last night with this thread in mind.
Definitely not as good as I remembered it - turns out my memory had mostly glossed over all the stuff at the start with the horrible teens and was mainly hooked on the two antagonists fighting each other. I had definitely forgotten about the abusive relationship stuff. Freddy is full on creepy-sexual-predator-y in this which makes Jason almost the anti-hero despite the fact that he kills most of the cast, and it's true that most of the cast is really annoying and, as you say, really '00.
I think once Freddy and Jason kick off on each other it's really enjoyable though and the manner the script goes about bringing them into conflict is nicely done. On many levels it's a bit of a homage to the two franchises and it's better than all bar the first two Nightmare films and all bar the first two Friday films too.

Watching it, and reading Pictsy's thoughts on the series, made me realise I don't really want to watch any of the other Nightmare films again though.

Despite being no expert I think Jason was on diet pills as well.

It's a different actor playing Jason for this film, they wanted a taller actor to emphasise the height difference between Freddy and Jason so didn't use Kane Hodder. I'm sure I'd read somewhere that they had to pad Ken Kirzinger up with extra layers because he lacked bulk but I might be imagining that.
Also I'm sorry to hear you watched Jason X, it's dreadful.

Next instead of watching Casablanca I think you should remain in a loop of watching bad 80s slasher franchises and reviewing them, because I've enjoyed your thoughts on these very much.

[repoman]

Also I'm sorry to hear you watched Jason X, it's dreadful.

I love Jason X.  After FT13 part 6, it's my favourite one because it's just so much fun.

I enjoyed FvJ for what it was worth but Freddy is the weak link in it as it's all played for laughs.  That's pretty much the problem with a lot of the Freddy films.  It's all wisecracks and silliness.

People hate the Elm Street remake from a few years back but I thought it was good because it got rid of all the humour and made Freddy genuinely scary.

I tend to like the Friday films (and the Hatchet ones if you want something similar but more over the top).  The Elm Street films don't really do it for me.  I like Dream Warriors but after I watched the box set I ended up selling it.

Of all the big horror series though, Halloween is my least favourite and yet the one that seems to have the most credibility.

[Barrington Boots]

Interesting! I think Jason X starts off great, and has some cool ideas (like the holodeck bit) but the middle of it is just... eh. In fairness I've not seen it for almost 20 years but I remember being super let down by it.

I also like the Friday films a lot more than the Halloween or Elm Street series - Freddy just gets up my nose, he's too over the top. Have you seen Behind the Mask?

[repoman]

Have you seen Behind the Mask?

No, not heard of that.  Some sort of documentary about the whole series?

Oddly, despite being a fan of the series.  I actually started at number 4 and really ought to watch the first three sometime!

[pictsy]

Next instead of watching Casablanca I think you should remain in a loop of watching bad 80s slasher franchises and reviewing them, because I've enjoyed your thoughts on these very much.

That is very kind, thank you.  I don't know whether I could manage another long series right after this one and I'm not actually well versed in slasher flicks.  I was thinking of doing Poltergeist soon as a rewatch, but I need a palette cleanser.

I enjoyed FvJ for what it was worth but Freddy is the weak link in it as it's all played for laughs.  That's pretty much the problem with a lot of the Freddy films.  It's all wisecracks and silliness.

Although the wisecracking arguably starts early on, I'd say it's never an actual feature of the character until the last two films.  I was legitimately surprised at how long it took to start because I was under the impression that it was what Freddy was after the first film.  One of the biggest surprises for me was how Freddy strongly resembles the character in the first film (unnecessarily gross and idiotic origin stories aside) until film 5.

[Barrington Boots]

No, not heard of that.  Some sort of documentary about the whole series?

It's kind of a faux-documentary about a film crew following a slasher as he preps for a rampage. It deconstructs a lot of the genre tropes and it's quite funny in a very black, deadpan sort of way (so nothing like Man Bites Dog, a similar concept for a film but one I found pretty sickening) and it has a twist that whilst kind of predictable I won't spoil for you here, but if you're interested in Friday / Halloween style films I think it's well worth seeing.
And definitely watch the early Fridays, they're the best ones IMO.