The Political Thread

[The Legendary Shark]

...you argue as if it is self-evident, unarguable truth.

I've been thinking about this a lot and you're right, I do.

My claim that taxation is coercive and therefore must be voluntary may be both simplistic and flawed and, furthermore, contains the unspoken inference that coercion is wrong. I think it's time for me to re-evaluate my position which, with your indulgence, I will now do.

Firstly, the premise that taxation is coercive. HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) will take 'enforcement action' to get the money if you don't pay your tax bill. The OEDonline definition of coercion is "Constraint, restraint, compulsion; the application of force to control the action of a voluntary agent." 'Enforcement action,' then, is synonymous with coercion. I think it is clear that taxation is coercive. (It is not my intention at this stage to comment upon the legitimacy or otherwise of this but merely to establish it as a factual premise.)

Secondly, my unspoken inference that coercion is wrong. This is a value judgement on my part. However, the legal definition of coercive power is, "Authority or power acquired by the employment of fear, suppression of free will, and/or use of illegal punishment or threat," which seems to reinforce my judgement that coercion is wrong. There may be extreme cases where coercion could be employed for good ends, for example in coercing a murderer, rapist or assaulter to stop indulging in unlawful acts. I do not think, though, that coercion should be used as a matter of course simply because it is expedient to do so. To me, then, coercion is, in almost all circumstances, wrong.

Thirdly, my assertion that taxation should be voluntary. This is another judgement call on my part and is flawed. The initial premise and consequent inference do not automatically lead to this assertion. There are several other possibilities which may be considered such as a combination of coercive and voluntary mechanisms, the turning over of public services to pure capitalistic (not corporatist) entities or direct funding through money creation mechanisms.

Despite my assertion that taxation should be voluntary is flawed, I still think it is preferable to a coercive system. This is not to say that transformation from one to the other will be easy or can be accomplished overnight. There are many factors to take into account and many mechanisms which must be changed alongside. A prime example is the current, deeply flawed monetary system. (I have already written about this at length and so will not revisit those arguments here except to say that when money is treated and used as a tool instead of a commodity, many of society's problems will be eased or disappear altogether.) The second major system which needs to be changed is the nature of government itself (again, I've written extensively on this subject and so do not need to reiterate here). As I have said before, society is a process and I believe we should all be thinking about how to continue that process and not how to maintain inertia.

In conclusion, then, I do think the facts that taxation (and government in general) is coercive and that coercion is almost always wrong are self-evident, unarguable truths. My conclusion, that taxation should be voluntary, not so much. The question remains, though - do we want to live in a coercive society and hand such down to those who will follow us or should we begin to think about building something better?

I opt for the latter, and that process begins with identifying the problems and obstacles posed by the current system. Only when we have done this can we begin to formulate solutions - which is where, I admit, I have a tendency to jump the gun.

[Jim_Campbell]

Brexit: the Japanese aren't impressed.

[Michael Knight]

Very strange man is Keith Vaz. There is a wider story here. Some of you probably know to what i'm talking about.

[Old Tankie]

Service industry data holding up very well after Brexit vote.  No need for an emergency budget then.

[COMMANDO FORCES]

Stop posting positive things Old Tankie

[Old Tankie]

 

[Jim_Campbell]

No need for an emergency budget then.

The emergency budget was only ever ridiculous scare-mongering by Osborne.

[Old Tankie]

For once we agree.

[IndigoPrime]

Service industry data holding up very well after Brexit vote.

Not a huge shock, given that we've not left yet. I suspect the markets are all in a holding pattern until May vs Hammond vs Davis finishes and a victor emerges, and we know what the future direction will be — soft or hard Brexit. If the latter, we've had some pretty clear warnings about the level of screwed we're going to be by the world's major economies. (The current thinking from Tories appears to be to turn the UK into a kind of giant Singapore. That'll be fun for the rich and not so much for everyone else. Mind you, I say 'thinking', but the likes of Davis and Redwood don't even appear to know the basics of EU law and our current obligations.)

Still, Sterling remains in the crapper and the BoE now has naff-all wiggle room to further shore up the economy (which is something that Brexit people tend to ignore happened).

[Old Tankie]

Sterling in the crapper, as you put it, is probably helping exports and encouraging many extra tourists to come to the UK.

[Theblazeuk]

So you think a devalued pound is a good thing then Tankie?

[IndigoPrime]

Tourism: perhaps. Exports: only for companies whose import costs haven't just shot through the roof. Hence why reporting from exporters is extremely mixed right now. Moreover, though, what Sterling's position does say, having settled, is that the entire world markets now believe UK PLC to be worth less than it was before the vote. Whether that changes and Sterling strengthens to any degree remains to be seen. If it drops sharply again should A50 be activated, we're going to be in some serious trouble, due to costs ramping up on everything from fuel to food. (Right now would be an astonishingly good time to have a massive energy surplus from governments having hugely invested in renewables. Alas.)

EDIT: It's probably also worth noting that Sterling wasn't exactly seen as being especially strong of late. Against the US dollar, bobbling along in the high 1.40s isn't stellar. The low 1.30s is pretty dire, though; predictions appear to range about 20 cents either side of that over the coming years.

[Old Tankie]

Hi Theblazeuk, it's like most things in life, there's a good and bad side to it.  Inflation is going to go up but it's got a long way to go before it hits the Government's inflation target.

[Dandontdare]

By the same token, writing the above (as in, the bit Theblazeuk quoted) as a statement like that is libellous and actionable. Please refrain from making such accusations on this forum.

to be libellous the following must be true:

Someone made a statement;
that statement was published;
the statement caused you injury;
the statement was false; and
the statement did not fall into a privileged category.

I'm not sure this is the case here ...;

[Modern Panther]

Service industry data holding up very well after Brexit vote.

Or alternatively...

Service sector shrinks at fastest rate since financial crisis
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-eu-referendum-uk-service-sector-financial-crisis-markitcips-pmi-survey-a7169506.html


Service industry contracts sharply after brexit vote.

http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/08/03/uk-services-industry-contracted-sharply-after-brexit-vote/