Dreddicated follower of Fascism?

[2000AD Online]

Despite his belonging to an authoritarian form of government, Dredd is not truly a fascist.

Discuss.

[Thread Zero]

He is.

You are wrong.

scojo

[2000AD Online]

The term 'fascist' has been generalized to the extent it can now encompass things it doesn't really typify. Broadly speaking, any form of government 'characterized by extreme nationalism, militarism, anti-communism, and restrictions on individual freedom' can be labelled fascist. Only the second and fourth elements of this definition really apply to Mega-City One. Specifically, however, Mega-City One bears only a superficial resemblence to the fascist regimes of Italy, Germany, Spain, and Japan in the early part of the Twentieth Century.

[Thread Zero]

Fascism was the ideology/regime of Benito Mussilini. Later used by Hitler to promote his expansionist war agenda.

Fascism is a non democratic political system which organises a country along hierarchical authoritarian lines. The powerful non democratic executive control military, politicial, economic and social institutions. Its goal is to maintain power at the expense of the proletariat.

This is the same as Justice Department.

Secret and non secret police, the military and other security forces maintain the fascist oder through fear and the illegal (not recognised by the Geneva Convention on Human rights etc) application of violence.

The judges are the secret police of the future. There actions only accountable to the SJS, which itself is part of the fascist executive.

Dredd as a judge, is an agent of the fascist executive. He cannot question his actions. He is merely a tool, a blunt weapon as Ian Fleming said of his creation James Bond.

He has no morality, as such. What morality he does possess, is not concerned with conventional human right or wrong. It's only right if it serves and maintains the fascist order.

However fascism is somewhat of an outdated term. I see little difference between a fascist and a dictator. They are just words. Fascism, Communism, it all means the same thing - Non democratic, limiting freedom of movement and expression.

Dredd represents fascism. But he did not choose that political ideology. Fate played its hand. Dredd accepts this by denying his right to self determination.

To conclude, Dredd is an agent of fascism. So by default, he is fascist.

scojo cleverer than he looks:)

[Thread Zero]

If you disagree, think about this:

You drop some litter. Dredd arrests you.
You say that's not fair. Dredd says you are right, it isn't fair but it's the law.

Now if that isn't fascist behaviour, my name isn't Charlie Fartfottle The Third.


Charlie Fartfottle III, litter lout

[2000AD Online]

What you've described is a totalitarian regime rather than, more specifically, a fascist government. You also imply the Judges operate as a police state. Not so. The government of Mega-City One has no need to employ secret police in order to monitor its citizens, being quite overt in its modus operandi. That's not to say the Judges don't use covert methods but, on the whole, the threat itself is enough to prevent crime.

[nathan]

Sorry Scojo, I don't normally go in for the playground-style "you're wrong and I'm right" tactics of which you're so fond, but in this case I have to make an exception. You're completely wrong.
You say Judges are the secret police of the future. If so, why do they wear bright yellow birds on their shoulders? A bit conspicuous, don't you think?
You say Dredd cannot question his actions. Have you not read the Democracy stories?
You then completely derail your own assertion "Dredd is a Fascist" by saying there is no difference between Fascism and Communism!
And what is a self-proclaimed writer doing saying "They are just words". Words are all you have! Knowing what they mean so you can use them effectively is a fairly major part of being a writer.

N

[Mk13]

But does Dredd make the trains run on time?

[red_lichtie]

"But does Dredd make the trains run on time?"

Nope. That was Cal IIRC. Managed by executing the driver of the late running train. Now, there's a solution for Railtrack!

RL

[Thread Zero]

Nathan, you are splitting very fine hairs.

Obviously judges are visible, (although the Wally Squad isn't) but I compared them to the secret police because they have little accountability. Secret police work for the undemocratic executive. Judges are the same.

Their purpose is to mantain order through covert means. Justice dept operates in a similar way.

Some of their actions are transparent but much is covert. See the democracy storylines to see the covert nature of justice dept.

If you still disagree, think about this.
You live in China. You are a pro democracy campaigner. One night, your apartment door is smashed open and the secret police enter. They take you away, interrogate you and arrest you for being a subversive. You have no trial. Maybe you are executed, maybe you end up in a cell.

Now go forward in time to MC1. You are a pro democracy campaigner. Dredd bursts in with his fellow judges, finds actual (or planted) incriminating evidence. You are taken away, interrogated and sentenced to life in th iso cubes.

So what is the difference between Dredd and 21st century so called 'secret' police?

Not a lot. One may be more visible but their actions are the same. And Nathan, how do you know secret police don't increase their public profile when it serves their purpose?

Secret police can be a descriptive term for covert, unaccountable law enforcement. It may not always mean they wear silly beards and hide in shadows!

You say Dredd cannot question his actions. Have you not read the Democracy stories?

99 times of out 100, Dredd doesn't question his actions. And if you remember, what happened after Necropolis?

Oh yeah, Dredd went back to being a judge! If he really doubted himself, he would never have become a judge again. Dredd is a slave to the system he upholds. Of course there would be no Dredd strip if he took the long walk again so the whole 'doubting justice dept leaving it forever' is a red herring!:)

Mr Whit started "is Dredd a fascist" debate. I argue words such as fascism, communism, totalitarianism mean the same thing: restriction of human rights.

What is the difference between a fascist dictator and a totalitarian or communist dictator?

Not a lot if your freedom is restricted. That was my point.

If you like to use the term fascist to describe one who unfairly denies freedom, then Dredd is that. Can't see your problem Nathan.

scojo

[red_lichtie]

For a detailed look at what "facism" is, try the link below.

RL

Link: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~semp/facism.htm" target="_blank">http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~semp/facism.htm

[red_lichtie]

Oops. Link didn't post.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~semp/facism.htm

RL

[Wake]

My fault.

If you post a URL without a link title, there's nothing to click on. I've just changed the board, so that if this happens the Link Title is set to the URL, so the previous message should now work properly.

Wake

[nathan]

Scojo, stop squirming and admit you're wrong for once!

Mr Whit quite correctly said Dredd is not truly a fascist. You told him he was wrong then backed it up with arguments so woolly you're still having to justify yourself. Face it, he was right in the first place!

N

[Thread Zero]

According to that link, fascism doesn't have one definitive meaning.

That's more or less what I said.

It's just some poncey term to justify autocratic rule and human right abuses.

So to conclude...

JUSTICE DEPT IS FASCIST AND DREDD IS A FASCIST COP.

Seems blooming obvious to me....

scojo putting the demo in democracy