Cause someone asked and I'm too lazy to write anything myself here's some random chunkcs of Wikipedia.
Jenny Greenteeth "is a figure in English folklore from Yorkshire or Lancashire. A river hag, similiar to Peg Powler, she would pull children or the elderly into the water and drown them. She was often described as green-skinned, with long hair, and sharp teeth.
She is likely to have been an invention to frighten children from dangerous waters"
Tommy Rawhead "Bloody Bones comes from Ireland and is sometimes called Rawhead and Bloody-Bones, Tommy Rawhead, or "Rawhead". Though the stories originated from Ireland, they have spread through the UK and North America, and the stories still hold strong in the south.
He is said to live near places of water (in older tellings) and under sink pipes (in newer tellings). Rawhead and Bloodybones rewards very good children, but will punish naughty children by dragging them down the drainpipes or into the water and drowning them. In addition to drowning naughty children, he is said to be able to turn them into objects such as pieces of trash or spots of jam, which are inadvertantly cleaned-up and thrown out by unwitting parents."
Horndon Worm - "Sir James Tyrrell ... went to slay a dragon and died. It appears that he had been asked to kill a serpent-type animal which escaped from a ship in the Thames and roamed the woods round the manor of Herongate and the church, terrifying the people. He managed to slay it, chopping of its head, but he died from his exertions"
Black Shuck "the name given to a ghostly black dog, probably a type of barghest, which is said to roam the Norfolk and Suffolk coastline. Sometimes Black Shuck is referred to as 'the Doom Dog'. It is said that his appearance bodes ill to the beholder, though not always, with Black Shuck more often than not terrifying his victims out of their wits but then leaving them alone to live normal lives afterwards. Many other 'black dogs' exhibit a similar trait. Sometimes Black Shuck has appeared headless, and at other times he appears to float on a carpet of mist rather than run. According to folklore, the spectre often haunts graveyards, sideroads and dark forests."
Black Annis "a bogeyman figure in English folklore. She is imagined as a one-eyed blue-faced crone or witch with iron claws and a taste for human (especially child) flesh. She is said to haunt the countryside of Leicestershire, living in a cave in the Dane Hills. She supposedly goes out onto the glens at night looking for unsuspecting children and lambs to eat, then hangs their skins around her waist. This legend is of disputed origin, some say it is based on a Fifteenth century hermit called Agnes Scott, while others say it is much older and probably Celtic in origin."
Cailleach Bheur "in Irish and Scottish mythology, The Cailleach (plural, Cailleachan) (also called The Cailleach Bheur) is generally seen as a divine hag, a creator, and possibly a deity. The word simply means 'old woman' in modern Scottish Gaelic, and has been applied to numerous mythological figures. In Scotland, she is credited with making numerous mountains and large hills, which are said to have been formed when she was striding across the land and accidentally dropped rocks from her apron."
Link: Wikipedia on European Folk Lore
What about the Japaneese wallah with no face?
I'm assuming he's a Jap, what was it he called him, a 'Leaking Tap'?
Although knowing Cockerney slang, that could be Latvian, as in:
'Leaking tap fixed by a plumber named Ian'
Is Tommy Rawhead any relation to Redcap? That's what I assumed when I saw him in the comic, at any rate.
Thanks for the info, nice to have something to refer to! I'd been confused initially by how everyone seemed to know the characters already, hadn't realized until maybe the 2nd episode that it was a mythiololological thing.
"I'm assuming he's a Jap, what was it he called him, a 'Leaking Tap'? "
I assumed that meant Chap.
I thought it meant a mugger, personally.
And here's the entry on Capelthwaite from Encyclopedia of the Celts. Looks like we're in for a giant dogfight finale:
The name given to a Westmoreland local Bogie of the Black Dog type. He could apparently assume any form at will, but preferred that of the calf-sized black dog. There used to be a barn near Milnthorpe called Capelthwaite Barn which was the home of one of these creatures. He was well disposed towards the farm people, and used to round up their sheep and cattle for them.
What about the Japaneese wallah with no face?
Mujina is an old Japanese term for a tanuki (Raccoon dog). In Japanese folklore, these animals were avid shapeshifters, and one of the forms they were purported to take was that of a "faceless ghost". This particular sort of monster is often referred to by English speakers as a mujina, but the Japanese know them as noppera-bō.
Not Latvian after all then...
Wils --
You ever seen Pom Poko?
Nope. As always, my knowledge and experience of Japanese animation is very limited (Akira, Pokemon, something about a demon with hundreds of tentacled spurting cocks)
Pom Poko is non-pornographic but the Tanuki do have the power to inflate and flatten their town halls, which must be nice for them. The movie also shows the reason so many Japanese men drink 'genki drinks' (because they're really Tanuki feeling the strain of keeping the disguise)
Is Tommy Rawhead any relation to Redcap? That's what I assumed when I saw him in the comic, at any rate.
No relation at all, but the comparison is a good one, they are similar in the sense that they're both particularly bloodthirsty, malevolent creatures.
Tommy Rawhead (or Bloody Bones, as I've always known him) is a bit more of a general bogeyman, designed specifically to frighten children. As a result he's got no particular genuine mythological or folkloric heritage - the name was simply meant to conjure up such a horrific image that it kept children away from ponds and quarries, that sorta thing, where he was supposed to live (this is also the origin of Jenny Greenteeth). He also liked to make his lair under stair cupboards, which gave rise to the 'monster under the stairs'-type story.
Redcap, on the other hand, was a proper folklore creation, a particularly evil sub-species of goblin that haunted ruined border pele towers, and castles and keeps where foul deeds had been done. He's probably of most note becuase he wore big iron boots, making him one of the rare few members of the fairy race who had nothing of their legendary aversion to iron.
The 'red head' of the former was because he had no skin/top of head, the 'red cap' of the latter just because he dyed it in his victims' blood.
Ha! Who needs Wikipedia? Bow before my folkoric might!
A few expansions:
Hedley Kow appears in several stories as a shapeshifting Shryker-type: a hobthurst or hobgoblin who'd appear as a cow, sheep, horse -- or, yes, as the ever-present "black dog".
Because the name "Shuck" is almost synonymous with Black Dog legends (which allowed me to tie him in to the whole Black Dog Of Newgate mythology), I've differentiated him and Kow by making the latter a less distinctive bogey; a sort of shapeless horsebearpigdog horror: an explosion of ferocity and nastiness.
As for Tyrell, different versions of the "killing the worm" tale tell it very differently. Most agree it was a beast that escaped from a ship offshore -- merchants bringing the creature as a gift to the King. Needless to say the version I've gone with has him successfully killing the Horndon beast (a cockatrice), whilst others have him impaled on his own lance, pierced by its claw, or poisoned by a drop of its blood. From there it was a short hop of invention to making him a glorified Career-Monster-Killer, who's on the verge of finishing-off Capelthwaite in the flashbacks, just as Shuck intervenes...
Also plenty of family history, the Tyrells...
Thanks for the info, nice to have something to refer to! I'd been confused initially by how everyone seemed to know the characters already, hadn't realized until maybe the 2nd episode that it was a mythiololological thing.
Well, just goes to show me how ignorant I am then, as I've only found that out by reading this thread. No wonder I feel totally lost in the story so far. (I feel a bit like I did when Cab Inc first started, and I didn't get any of the 'cult' references then either.)
I thought I just needed to reread he story, but it's clearly more than that.
Are any of these characters in Gaiman's Neverwhere?
Spur: How do you go about writing/researching a story like this?
"Are any of these characters in Gaiman's Neverwhere? "
WAH! Now I cant read this thread as I've been buying this lot with the plan to read it all in one go.
PS. Please say its alright? I'll risk reading a reply. :)
I'm sure glad i don't live in London!!! :o
Satanist: It's not bad, but not as good as the novel. I'm liking the artwork. It's very similar to London Falling in a lot of ways. A Lot. I have a couple of 2kad issues to catch up with, but so far, I'm thinking it's closer to being the Brit version of American Gods.
"Spur: How do you go about writing/researching a story like this?"
I'd be interested to know too. Was wondering if you'd decided to do a story featuring mythological ties and legends and then researched to find material for it, or is it something you've read into a lot anyway and so decided to do a story around them? It's a chicken/egg kind of question.
Oh, and while I don't listen to them, my brother tells me The Darkness have a song called "Black Shuck" which is apparently related to the same legends.
The opening track on the Darkness' first album. Not a bad tune.
Black Shuck, Black Shuck;
That dog don't give a F###!
Not the best lyrics though
Bolt-01
Bolt - That's been stuck in my head since I started reading this thead!
Damn you Hawkins!
Thanks all - really interesting mythology that I'd never really encountered - apart from one of the monsters in D&D was an Annis.
---
[Rolls dice and fails to succeed on the Long Post chart.]
Heh!! a "mujina" can be found in the bestiary section of the Companion rules (third edition, naturally). I do remember there being a witch-like monster in Dungeons & Dragons called an Annis, but it's been a very long time!
I think the first I'd heard of "Black Annis" was in Doom Patrol, where she was one of Crazy Jane's alter-egos. Great character, was Crazy Jane.
I'm hoping for an appearance of the Nuckelavee!
That would indeed be very cool - as long as it's not like that weird one that appeared in Slaine. As I've said before, an appearance by Boneless or Herne the Hunter would be good, too. And maybe a Spriggan.
I'm reading the novel of Neverwhere at the moment (75p in Asda) and there's very little crossover in terms of characters or even referencing. Neverwhere is more rooted in the myths of the geography of London more than anything from Londons Falling.
Please pardon my total ignorance on this subject, but was that Irish horror movie from the 70's called "Rawhead Rex" slightly related to the much older mythology? Or just similar names by coincidence? By the way, we Aussies ( the past 200 years worth, as in) have a mythological beastie......its called a Bunyip, not the most fear inducing title I'll admit.
That movie was, IIRC, based on Clive Barker's short story, but I'm not sure whether he took any inspiration from the legend. Quite possible, though.
There was a novel I read once (i think it might have been called 'Hobgoblin') which had the Black Annis in it.
Green Jenny was in a Hellboy story, wasn't she? That's goin tae piss me off till I look it up now...
Heh! Heh! Just sussed out bold, italic and underline!
Yes, she was. It's named in her Wikipedia entry (though I ommited it from the post specifically to annoy you. Bwah hah hah!)
grrr...foam...froth!!!
}@
/gush on
Fucking good stuff this strip!
/gush off
- Gushing fish
"There was a novel I read once (i think it might have been called 'Hobgoblin') which had the Black Annis in it.
Green Jenny was in a Hellboy story, wasn't she? That's goin tae piss me off till I look it up now... "
And, of course, Black Annis was one of Crazy Jane's personas in Morrison's Doom Patrol.
Except, of course, none of that now exists because John (JB, Big Man, Gold Bull) Byrne has ret-conned her out of continuity in order to preserve the purity of the CORE CONCEPT.
Wanker.
Cheers
Jim
"Except, of course, none of that now exists because John Byrne has ret-conned her out of continuity in order to preserve the purity of the CORE CONCEPT."
I know, I know... except that after the rubbish JLA story that reintroduced the Doom Patrol, fighting vampires alongside the JLA, I didn't buy the new series of Doom Patrol because I thought John Byrne's version was crap and not very entertaining. So in my version of the DC Universe, the Grant Morrison run remains in continuity and the Chris Claremont/John Byrne run in JLA was too boring and rubbish to have happened.
Aye, the mujina - that's right - it was like an uber-doppelganger and appeared as an extra in one of the expert level desert adventures.
An Annis is a type of Hag from WOTC D20 D&D.
Feat: D&D Nerdology
She was in 1st ed. AD&D too- Monster Manual II I think!
Non Weapon proficiency: Ancient Lore!
I shall agree with the tyrant piscine. Damn this is a great series!
I'm really enjoying this as well. It's a shame at the dodgy reproduction art-wise, especially with the first episode, but hopefully this'll be sorted out if it gets reprinted in the future.
I saw it suggested somewhere that the Claremont/Byrne JLA run might exist in the DCU as a TV movie, and the Byrne Doom Patrol series as a quickly cancelled spin-off TV series, thus keeping Morrison's Doom Patrol in continuity.
I mean, really, the original run of Doom Patrol had the Animal-Vegetable-Mineral Man, and Morrison's had the Men from NOWHERE, and Byrne's had, erm, Crucifer the vampire. I think Morrison's a bit closer to the "core concept."
I assume with all this Doom Patrol talk that the origins of The Great Tall Tailor are a mystery to nobody.
And when do we get an appearance by Good Dog Trey and those cats that sit around saying "Me-o Me-ow, Me-ow Me-o, you'll BURN TO DEATH. WE TOLD YOU SO."
Not to mention Augustus who wouldn't drink his soup to-day. In fact that whole book is filled with grotesques and I'm sure you all have a favourite...
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume Morrison's run on Doom Patrol comes highly recommended?
"I'm going to go out on a limb and assume Morrison's run on Doom Patrol comes highly recommended?"
It's difficult for me to view it from a fresh perspective. You have to remember that the aftershocks of Watchmen were still rumbling around the comics mainstream and everyone and their dog was producing grim-and-gritty-superheroes-with-an-edge [1] ...
... And along came Morrison's Doom Patrol, by turns funny, absurd, scary and touching. I've said elsewhere that I never liked the art, but the plotting was like an explosion in an ideas factory, whilst the scripting was exquisite.
It trod a fine line between intelligence and pretension and (for me, at least) always pulled it off. How it reads now to a new reader, I really cannot say ...
You can get the opening stories in the 'Crawling from the Wreckage' TPB. I'm not clear on how much (or how completely) the rest of the run is reprinted, but if you like 'Crawling', then you should enjoy the rest of the run.
Cheers!
Jim
[1] Honourable exception: Giffen and DeMatteis' 'Justice League', one of the few books that used to make me laugh out loud pretty much every month.
I can't recommend Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol enough. Some really fantasic stories, and some nice character touches. I'm still fond of the bit where
+++ Doom Patrol spoilers +++
Crazy Jane impetuously crashes through a plate glass window instead of using a shop doorway, and Robotman explains her to passers-by: "It's okay - she's a superhero..."; and later clumsily writes a cheque to cover the damage: "Sorry about the handwriting - robot fingers, you know?"
Some fantastic character names along the way too; although 'Danny the Street' isn't one of them. Far too obvious. Some brilliant villains in Red Jack, The Shadowy Mr Evans, The Cult of the Unwritten Book and The Brotherhood of Dada.
+++ Doom Patrol spoilers end +++
"Some brilliant villains in Red Jack, The Shadowy Mr Evans, The Cult of the Unwritten Book and The Brotherhood of Dada. "
I know I've mentioned it on another thread, but 'The Beard Hunter' from Doom Patrol is the most fantastic piss take of the Punisher (and his ilk) that you will ever read.
It's sublime: every aspect of the character-type is systematically demolished or ridiculed and the (guest) artist really got the gag, playing the artwork entirely straight.
"Niles Caulder -- I've come for your beard."
Cheers!
Jim
I assume with all this Doom Patrol talk that the origins of The Great Tall Tailor are a mystery to nobody.
Actually, if anyone would care to elaborate I'd be most grateful...
They're out of Heinrich Hoffman's 'Struwwelpeter'. Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol featured a panel from Struwwelpeter depicting the tailor from The Story of Little Suck-a-Thumb and quotation from the text, and his 'Scissormen' were themselves based on the tailor. Struwwelpeter also inspired poetry by Dylan Thomas, and was supposed to be the inspiration for Edward Scissorhands.
Morrison also referred to the Inky Boys from Struwwelpeter with a group of apparitions in the Doom Patrol's basement, and a family of scary imaginary friends, one of whom was named 'Flying Robert' after another of Heinrich Hoffman's nursery book characters.
as a non-pom will I like this when we get to it? Soulds alright but will it be accessable for an ex-convict without access to the net?(at home anyway).
Nerd-from-oz - Rawhead Rex the movie is based on a Clive Barker short story, pretty average movie if I remember correctly(think it came out in the 90's too)but the story its based on is pretty good, dont thinkl it really has anything to do with the legend they're talking about here though.
CU Radbacker
Yeah, I think it's accesable. It's pretty well written too.
Radbacker - You don't need any of this background knowledge to enjoy London Falling. (In fact, at a push, I'd go as far as saying that too much analysis may even spoil it for you.)
---
Ah, yes - the scissory dude. Thanks for that, Ush - I knew I recognised him from somewhere - but the author's name doesn't stay in my head for some reason.
There is now a Wikipedia entry on this. I've thrown in a link to this thread but I was going to throw in some information on the links with mythology/folklore that have been posted here is folks were OK with that. It wouldn't require the actual text to be extracted (especially as some of them have entries of their own) but I thought it best to check first. ;)
Link: London Falling @ Wikipedia
About the title trivia Emperor. Si could be directly inspired by that song title but the song is inspired by the famous call sign for World War 2 Nazi propgandist William Joyce otherwise known as Lord Haw Haw. "This is London Calling".
It also brings to mind the refrain 'Londons Burning, Londons Burning, Draw Nearer, Draw Nearer' which may just be a co-incidence.
You might also want to edit it to point out that it draws on European folk tales too. Sorry for that.
Anything I posted was nicked from Wikipedia anyway so you can happily post that, maybe with a link to the original page.
>the famous call sign for World War 2 Nazi propgandist William Joyce otherwise known as Lord Haw Haw. "This is London Calling".
Except his call sign was 'This is Germany calling.'...
Oh. Ignore that.
Anything I posted was nicked from Wikipedia anyway so you can happily post that, maybe with a link to the original page.
OK cheers all done.
Bugger. I got sucked into wikipedia, going to Struwwelpeter, then putting in a bit about Grant Morrison, then following the trail to Doom Patrol, found myself expanding what it said in the Scissormen article to bring it back to Struwwelpeter again, and in saving the page I lost everything I'd written, and going back got me 'page expired'. I wish I hadn't bothered now!
Morrison's Doom Patrol was wonderful.
Byrne who?
As for the scissor references, it's all new to me and I'll have a glance at the stuff mentioned if I ever get the chance.
Cheers all!
- Trout
Bugger. I got sucked into wikipedia, going to Struwwelpeter, then putting in a bit about Grant Morrison, then following the trail to Doom Patrol, found myself expanding what it said in the Scissormen article to bring it back to Struwwelpeter again, and in saving the page I lost everything I'd written, and going back got me 'page expired'. I wish I hadn't bothered now!Ah I know that feeling - I always edit in Notepad.
Anyway I have updated the entry with the last page of the first installment. Thanks go to Lee for providing a scan of the original (he threw me a few but I thought that was one that really helped add extra information as it shows all the main characters) - I have dropped in a note about the final colours and it is worth comparing and contrasting the originals with the published page.
Link: London Falling @ Wikipedia
Nice work - but PEDANT ATTACK!!! It's not got aything to do with mythology, so I'd change that bit. It's strictly folklore we're dealing with here.
And you can all thank me for starting that on Wilkipedia!! And thanks for editing it, i couldn't really be arsed finishing it!
Just read the last part.
Very satisfying.
That's The Ten Seconders up as well now! Go me go me! :D
Jock is drawing the next series of Ten Seconders, I believe
DXB: Think it is dom Reardon actually....
Bolt-01
DXB has blown Doms secret identity!
Wasn't sure about this but hey good ending!!
'London Calling' was a Clash song about the near future imploring people to think for themselves and not follow the dictats of London fashion
Huff
I think it's a bit of a tragic ending, really - I mean, the guys are all immortal, as evidenced by the fact that they're all many hundreds of years old and still looking exactly the same. So Jack's not going to grow old with his family; for the same reason Jenny killed her husband, despite loving him, because he was starting to grow old ahead of her. This is why Shuck was so sneery about Jack having a family, (and the fact that any of them had bothered trying to have normal lives) because he knows Jack's kidding himself if he thinks it can last.
So what happens twenty years down the line, when the kids are nearing thirty, and Jack himself still hasn't aged? Inevitably it can't end well for him, poor guy. He's won, but he's still a creature of the night, and destined to be alone. Give it half a century and he'll be back with the gang from Jen's, simply because they are all he knows...
Shuck was right all along, you can't deny what you are. (Um, sorry to put a downer on the ending):)
By studiously avoiding reading Dark Jimbo's post above, have I managed to miss a massive SPOILER?
Gargantuan.
OOOPS - sorry Ush - although, reading it back, I don't think there's any real spoilers in there (but I might be wrong, so don't read it if you're worried). It was just my personal musings on what might happen next rather than a big ol' spoiler discussion of the end.
Bloody hell. There was me thinking I'd hit on a right clever point to make about this only to find Jimbo beat me to it.
An alternative though wold be for Si and Lee to give us a strip set in 15 years time when Jacks kids notice that they don't seem to be aging right and wonder what did happen to their mum ten years ago...
Thought this was a superb little story, which repayed the readers attention. Hopefully we'll get to see Lee Garbett on something more as well.
Bolt-01
According to the Wiki entry he's working on something with John Smith. The wiki entry started by...J.Smith.
The Lee Garbett entry? Was that not started by the Emperor?
Gah. Been mixing up names all day one way or another.
That's the London Falling entry finished with a plot.
That's the London Falling entry finished with a plot which i' rather chuffed with.
That's the London Falling entry finished with a plot which i' rather chuffed with.
That's the London Falling entry finished with a plot which i' rather chuffed with.
Can I take it that the London Falling entry is finished, and that you're rather chuffed with the plot? :)
Both. :D
Then don't be so tongue tied.
I must be the dumbest boarder around because every single bit of this folklore went way above my head (and it sits on an elongated sauropod neck).
Here's another sign as to how dumb I was. I kept thinking Jack was actually Jack The Ripper. I'd convinced my self that his surname was an anagram of Whitechapel, you see.
Weapons grade stupidity on display there.
I really enjoyed the story and the art. TOOTH should do more of these little short things.
Go-Machine otta be good next week. I'll miss it though. Away to Lanzarote on Sunday. Cool.
I absolutely loved the end of London Falling. It made me laugh out loud with relief. What a clever piece of reader manipulation.
It also shows the maturity of storytelling Si Spurrier has developed in recent years.
He's on a roll, with Random, Kipling and now this.
I've been critical (in a positive way, hopefully) of his work in the past and I want to say I am increasingly impressed these days.
I was especially pleased to see a strong strip without all that over-written "voiceover" dialogue in some of Si's other stuff.
Bloody well done!
Nice art, too.
- Trout
Yeah it was certainly some great art. Loved it. Such a great story.
i had to keep my self from having an opinion as i had a feeling it was going to scan better as one read 9as i wasnt enjoying it in the weekly instalments) and hell it was brilliant in one go
well done
I finally got up to date, and read the last part of London Falling (or was that London's Falling, or Londons' Falling? - ;-)
As it went, very good. A nice little curio in a lovely little package. I can now forgive it for being short and self-contained. Anything longer might have been construed as pointless and self-indulgent. It wouldn't do for Si to have patterned London Falling after Return To Armageddon anyway.
it was really good stuff. I think the Trout is right there.
I do think the story could have been a bit longer. Maybe I'll appreciate it better on rereading
Loved it- loved the ending
(despite the fact it completely ruins the story I had written for Something Wicked Number 2)
Well done lads
;)