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Author Topic: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil  (Read 8706 times)

Leigh S

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #135 on: 26 March, 2021, 03:43:07 PM »
My memory of Nemesis ending seems to be that David Bishop wanted to have the last Nemesis as part of the Prog 2000 celebrations - who decided that Nemesis should also come to an end is a whole other question from that.

Kev was invited back, so for this to work, it would have to be Bish-Op wanted Kev to do Nemesis in Prog 2000, he said he would only do it if he could kill off Nemesis and they worked backwards from there to ditch the planned "Hammer of the Warlocks" plan asap and move to the Greatest Hits we got instead?  Seems unlikely, but who's to know (other than the Dark Days Droid himself!)

Dark Jimbo

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #136 on: 26 March, 2021, 03:59:57 PM »
My memory of Nemesis ending seems to be that David Bishop wanted to have the last Nemesis as part of the Prog 2000 celebrations - who decided that Nemesis should also come to an end is a whole other question from that.

Kev was invited back, so for this to work, it would have to be Bish-Op wanted Kev to do Nemesis in Prog 2000, he said he would only do it if he could kill off Nemesis and they worked backwards from there to ditch the planned "Hammer of the Warlocks" plan asap and move to the Greatest Hits we got instead?  Seems unlikely, but who's to know (other than the Dark Days Droid himself!)

Hammer of the Warlocks was published in 1994. I think any plans to do much following on from that were already long since dead in the water by 1999.

Leigh S

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #137 on: 26 March, 2021, 04:04:02 PM »
My recollection was that (Langley?) was going to do the Hammer of the Warlocks, but then went on an extended jaunt around the World, by which time he returned, Pat was busy elsewhere.   

They wrap up the Hammer of the Warlocks storyline as part of Book 10, so it wasnt as if it ws completely forgotten, just sidelined to make way for the ending - feels a little like history repeating itself - Flint comes along and is the perfect fit to reinvigorate the strip in a way that felt very rooted in those first books, but gets the story chopped out from under him.  Similarly Manco feels like a new Bisley/Fabry level artist brought in just to see the story end - you could rgue the same for Colin MacNeil on Stront I suppose!

IndigoPrime

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #138 on: 26 March, 2021, 04:05:26 PM »
Quite. Nemesis had been dragging on regarding that ‘final battle’ for ages. Deathbringer ended at the very start of 1989. The forgettable Nemesis & Deadlock plugged a hole in 1990/1. Bride of the Warlock (the strongest Nemesis, to my mind, in years) was in the 1992 special. Then we got Shape of Things to Come in 1993 (all six pages of it). Hammer of the Warlocks was 1994. Book X began in 1999.

Leigh S

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #139 on: 26 March, 2021, 04:06:38 PM »
Curiously, neither Bish-Op or Pat address the story endingin TPO / BPBVB... there might be an online audio interview where Pat covers it, maybe... hence my recollection of the Langley backpacking story!


Leigh S

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #140 on: 26 March, 2021, 04:09:28 PM »
There was also the Tomb of Torquemada Poster Prog around 1995?  Brilliant piece of Mills/O'Neill hilarity (though the Irish jokes may not have aged so well!)

Quite. Nemesis had been dragging on regarding that ‘final battle’ for ages. Deathbringer ended at the very start of 1989. The forgettable Nemesis & Deadlock plugged a hole in 1990/1. Bride of the Warlock (the strongest Nemesis, to my mind, in years) was in the 1992 special. Then we got Shape of Things to Come in 1993 (all six pages of it). Hammer of the Warlocks was 1994. Book X began in 1999.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #141 on: 26 March, 2021, 04:12:28 PM »
Flint comes along and is the perfect fit to reinvigorate the strip in a way that felt very rooted in those first books, but gets the story chopped out from under him.

Worth noting that Henry moved over to the Deadlock solo series, set in the Nemesis milieu, which was pretty well-received (by me, anyway!).

In The World According to Pat, the reason there was never a second series was because Andy Diggle refused to commission a follow-up. Now, there are two slight problems with this account, one objective: Andy hasn't been the editor for twenty years; and one subjective: Andy recalls this rather differently, in as much he didn't like Pat's initial pitch for a second series and passed on it, but didn't in any way indicate that he wouldn't consider different pitch for a sequel.
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Leigh S

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #142 on: 26 March, 2021, 04:19:53 PM »
Indeed - am I misremembering or does Deadlock say something along the lines of "I am Nemesis" again in that as well, and you could swap him out for Nemesis and the same story would have played out?

Very much enjoyed it, though it remains a road untravelled once the other ABC Warriors turn up

Magnetica

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #143 on: 26 March, 2021, 04:21:48 PM »
Which makes me wonder if the abrupt conclusion to 'Nemesis' was down to his abrasive working relationship with David Bishop and/or a fortunately unfounded suspicion that 2000AD wasn't going to be around much longer?

I have a vague recollection that Kev O'Neill said he'd draw the 'last' episode on condition that it was the last episode.

That’s the one.  Trust me, if Kev hadn’t imposed that condition, Nemesis would have been joylessly grinding on to this day, like Slaine and ABC Warriors.

Just so we are all clear: is this referring to the original last ever episode, i.e. the last episode of Book X published in Prog 2000 in Dec 1999 or the subsequent last ever episode published in (the other) Prog 2000 in Sept 2016?

Dark Jimbo

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #144 on: 26 March, 2021, 04:28:28 PM »
Just so we are all clear: is this referring to the original last ever episode, i.e. the last episode of Book X published in Prog 2000 in Dec 1999 or the subsequent last ever episode published in (the other) Prog 2000 in Sept 2016?

Either way, he still got to draw the last ever episode!

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #145 on: 26 March, 2021, 04:36:17 PM »
Just so we are all clear: is this referring to the original last ever episode, i.e. the last episode of Book X published in Prog 2000 in Dec 1999 or the subsequent last ever episode published in (the other) Prog 2000 in Sept 2016?

The final episode of Book X.
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broodblik

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #146 on: 27 March, 2021, 01:15:56 PM »
I also saw a question posted to Pat related to Flesh:

Q: Are you and Clint Langley going to be working on a final chapter for Flesh? It ended on a heck of a cliffhanger...

Pat: Too busy just now. I'd need to review it and see if it required some rethink for the finale, both in story and art terms. Off hand, I'd say it needed it. I won't just knock it out. It's too important & I think Flesh deserves to go out on a high note, like Leo's Slaine.
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

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broodblik

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #147 on: 27 March, 2021, 01:18:37 PM »
A question related to ABC Warriors:

Q: Sad we will see no more Slaine and A.B.C. Warriors. Prog won’t be the same without the possibility of those two returning

Pat: Thanks. Planning to complete the last ABCs soonish as Clint completes the colouring on existing pages

Was hoping for more Savage rather than Flesh or ABC Warrios
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

TordelBack

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #148 on: 27 March, 2021, 01:45:55 PM »
So this is great, and to me unexpected, news. From this Pat is essentially still engaged with his - let's be honest - beloved creations, and ensuring that their stories are treated properly. So it's far less the petulant rage-quit I've seen it alluded to as elsewhere, and more the reasonable disengagement of a septuagenarian super-creator from the WFH environment in favour of making something he actually owns. You might cynically suggest that this is part keeping a few irons in the fire, but who the feck wouldn't.

Now I'm not sure that Defoe needs a more formal ending, but if S K Moore could get one more series of that under his mind-boggling belt, I'd be one happy squaxx.

broodblik

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Re: Prog 2223 - The Root Of All Evil
« Reply #149 on: 27 March, 2021, 01:53:32 PM »
Maybe that was the agreement between Matt and Pat. Pat does not want anyone but him to work on his creations so if he give his series closure then no one else will work on his creations.
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.