The Political Thread

[IndigoPrime]

Farage returns, like a shit you can't scrape off of your shoe. Although he's now basically irrelevant since the Conservatives are enacting policies even UKIP wouldn't touch, and Labour's press team is wholeheartedly laying into the Tories for not being strict enough on immigration.

[Dandontdare]

UKIP leader to stand down.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37558485

That's got to be a record, even for UKIP!

[JayzusB.Christ]

A society that doesn't include immigrants isn't big. Or clever...

Not saying that's what you believe or sanction, just that "big society" is a meaningless political buzz-phrase.

Definitely not what I believe or sanction, as I'm sure you know by now.  I would have thought (mainly using information I gleaned from this thread, I should point out) that 'Big Society' as Fucko Cameron used it referred to an increase in power being given to local authorities and businesses and less so to the government.  Whether that's happened or not is a different matter.

[The Legendary Shark]

I love it when we don't argue. We might not agree on the details but I think we're (here, at least) on the same page, or at least on the same book.

[Theblazeuk]

Pound drops to $1.24. Another trip to the US for expensive medical reasons for the wife in January. Guess we will be at 1:1 if we are lucky.

Pound is nearing less than a Euro as well by the way.

And astonishingly I am seeing many people wonder on the back of the UKIP punch-up if the EHIC health coverage will go in the future.

[IndigoPrime]

What's most worrying about the Sterling thing last night is the commentary surrounding the article. The drop was clearly a screw-up – at least when it went way down, bottoming out around $1.13 before a 'rogue' transaction was nixed. But those in the industry noted how few buyers there were. And now, the next day, Sterling has seemingly had another permanent drop, which leaves it in the unenviable position of being a crash currency. (Sterling has dropped more than 15% against the USD in one year – almost unheard of for a major currency.)

Sterling's lowest ever valuation was $1.05. We're on $1.24 now, trending downwards, and without having triggered Article 50 yet. This isn't over. And for all those people crowing about an export boon, be mindful how much stuff we buy in (such as food and fuel), and that major trades are tied to the dollar. Everything is going to get more expensive. Everything is going to get harder for those who aren't rich. And we haven't even left the EU yet.

Short of the government performing some kind of fudge or U-turn, this is going to be an unmitigated disaster. And these politicians are the kind who think SOMETHING MUST BE DONE rather than getting evidence to find out whether something should be done. (Only Hammond seems to be a voice of reason. My guess is he'll be reshuffled and gone within six months – possibly sooner – for not towing the line.)

Meanwhile, schools are demanding parents say if their kids are foreign (which Clegg's chief of staff today said Conservatives attempted to start during the coalition days, as a means to cause a "hostile environment" regarding immigration). So much for openness. But I'm sure the racists and xenophobes will be happy when we lock the doors, even if there's fuck all money about after we do so.

[Modern Panther]

We're one step away from giving foreigners special badges to wear.

A guy at work today was complaining about the state of the economy since the vote.  When it was put to him that he had actually voted to leave, his response was that, yeah, he had...but he had voted to leave for the right reasons.

Let's face it, we're comic book geeks.  But an affinity for sci-fi comes with a penchant for thinking about the future and considering the alternatives.  I fear that this country, seriously lacking in imagination, is drifting towards a particularly grey dystopia as our glorious leaders race to mop up votes from the lowest common denominator.

If any boarders live in Conservative constituencies, or even constituencies held by other parties where the mp might be likely to be looking for a way to give their boss a kick in the nuts...please, write to your mp, and let them know that you're more concerned about blood and soil government policy than the fact that you might meet a foreigner on your way to the shops...and ask them what they plan to do about it.

[The Legendary Shark]

...an affinity for sci-fi comes with a penchant for thinking about the future and considering the alternatives. 

Do you mean the limited alternatives presented to us by the handful in charge or proper alternatives? I ask because you dismiss every alternative I present because it doesn't lead to some Utopian perfection.

...and ask them what they plan to do about it.

A better question is to ask yourself what you're going to do about it.

[Dandontdare]

...an affinity for sci-fi comes with a penchant for thinking about the future and considering the alternatives. 

Do you mean the limited alternatives presented to us by the handful in charge or proper alternatives? I ask because you dismiss every alternative I present because it doesn't lead to some Utopian perfection.

I think it's more because your alternatives already require a level of utopian perfection (at least in people's behaviour) in order to work

[The Legendary Shark]

No, just bog standard human nature. No Utopianism required.

The current system relies on the worst aspects of human nature. What's wrong with starting to encourage some of the better aspects?

[Dandontdare]

encourage? yes, always

Rely on with no coercion? Unworkable

[Frank]

When people are no longer forced to pay for goods and services, they will gladly fund them on a voluntary basis, as the internet has proven.

[Tjm86]

If any boarders live in Conservative constituencies,  ....

Our MP is Owen 'the scarlet pimpernel' Smith.  TBH I'm seriously embarrassed as a Labour Party member with the way they are going at the moment.  One the plus side a generation is about to discover why the Tories are the most abhorrent thing to happen to this country.  Unfortunately it is going to take them, their children and their grandchildren this time to get over the shock.  All while the 'opposition' is turning themselves into a joke.  Someone has now described this country as a one party state.  I'm just thinking about how other nations have been described in that instance.  What was the old Chinese curse again?

[Modern Panther]

Do you mean the limited alternatives presented to us by the handful in charge or proper alternatives? I ask because you dismiss every alternative I present because it doesn't lead to some Utopian perfection.

No, I dismiss the visions of the world you present because your starting point requires a near utopian society in which each individual is willing to work for the good of the whole, where all disputes are settled with reasoned logic and where everyone is imminently sensible.  When this is opposed, you claim that this isn't a utopia. You frequently fall foul of the nirvana fallacy.

Every economist in the world appreciates that economics is a flawed science because it's laws require that individuals act rationally.  Your alternatives require that people not only act rationally, but morally. 

I dismiss your alternatives because I don't believe that a world run by corporate monopolies would be an improvement on this one.  Because I believe in the basic democratic concept that we are equal and deserve an equal say, not a say based on how many shares we can buy.  Because government should exist to protect the weak from the strong, and when it fails, you replace it.  Because I would rather have taxes collected and enforced through reasonable punishment that watch people die of preventable diseases.  I dismiss your alternatives because corporations kill people to make a profit, and without regulation, they would kill a lot more.

If an unregulated market is the most effective way for a society to function, why is it that the most profitable and popular corporations are frequently the the most successful? 

Who is responsible for the workers who die because of poor conditions in Apple factories?

better question is to ask yourself what you're going to do about it.

Maybe is should tell people not to vote, that authority isn't real, that the government is just a criminal conspiracy and that I don't have to follow their laws.  That's bound to help.

[Modern Panther]

If an unregulated market is the most effective way for a society to function, why is it that the most profitable and popular corporations are frequently the the most corrupt?