The Political Thread

[Robin Low]

Who was it that said there isn't any waste in the Public sector, well let me tell you what I heard today 

Good question. Who did say that, CF?


CF, you really have to stop taking secondhand anecdotal stories and turning them into generalities.

I can tell you stories about British soldiers gang raping a teenage girl behind a nightclub. I also seem to recall some pretty nasty things going on in Cyprus a number of years ago. I also remember the recruitment adverts for the army in the job centre: "no qualifications required".

Would you be happy with the generalisation that British soldiers are largely a bunch of uneducated murderous rapists based on some stuff I heard from a mate?

Anecdotes, even individual detailed cases, don't provide an accurate picture of the broader truth.

As you know, I work in the NHS. The Trust provides us with tea making facilities, which amounts to water and a kettle, and that's it. I've worked in one department where we had to provide teabags and milk for ourselves. In my current department, teabags, milk, coffee and sugar are graciously provided by our consultants. We have, I think, around 80 members of staff, with a morning and afternoon break and a lunchtime, so we might be talking about potentially 240 cups of tea or coffee a day. I'm guestimating, but I don't think we get through more than 8 pints a day, but let's call it 12.

Can I reasonably extrapolate this and present it as a general picture of tea-making of the NHS? No, of course I bloody can't. There are hundreds of hospitals, each with many different departments, all of different sizes. The same goes for schools. It's impossible to take your mate's stories - even if they happen to be facts for his specific school - and use them to make generalisations about other schools and public sector waste.

And personally, I don't begrudge teachers as many cups of fucking coffee as their swollen bladders can hold, any more than I begrudge damaged soldiers getting decent healthcare even though they freely volunteered for a potentially lethal and sometimes morally dubious occupation.


Regards

Robin

[JOE SOAP]

^I think that's a knockout.^


Teachers, nurses and other frontline staff are not the enemy and shouldn't be treated as such. They didn't create the problems we're all now in or accept huge pay-offs, however other higher incompetents who get paid more than any of us, did. Our aim needs to be sharper than petty squabbling amongst ourselves.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Rape accusations are a bit harsh, and it doesn't really address the MASSIVE sums of money wasted on defense. Tens of litres of milk are nothing compared with Aircraft Carriers and Euro-Fighters, and how they went into a desert arena to fight experienced Afghan guerillas with unsuitable gear

[Robin Low]

Greed sadly happens everywhere but the reason it goes on here is because the public purse seems to be accountable to no one.

It may seem that way to you, but if you'd actually had to go through the control systems required to purchase even basic consumables, submit monthly figures for review, or  face detailed annual appraisals of your performance (which affect pay and job security) you might think otherwise. Obviously, I'm just speaking for a few small parts of the NHS I'm familiar with, not making a generalisation.

The worst bit is that these are the very people who say that there is no waste in their jobs. As I have always said there is waste in the public and private sector but no one gives a shit.

Oh, and I've agreed before that there is waste in the Public Sector. My questions have always been is it as widespread as often depicted by the media and the government, and is it really any worse than in the Private Sector which supposedly has all the answers? But one seems to give a shit about about that, either, least of all your good self.

Regards

Robin

[Greg M.]

Teachers, nurses and other frontline staff are not the enemy and shouldn't be treated as such.

Well said, Mr. Low and Mr. Soap.

First time I've posted in this thread, largely 'cos I mostly come here to talk comics / pop culture stuff, but as some of you are aware I am a secondary school teacher, and while I am not in any position to dispute CF's mate's statistical claims (don't even drink tea or coffee at all, myself... wonder how many of the 200 staff in the aforementioned school are like me?) I take issue with the whole implication, intentional or not, that people who do my job just sit about taking advantage of the taxpayer's hard-earned cash. Frankly, I'm not sure where we'd find the time: in the average school day, any non-contact time teachers have which is not taken away so you can cover for someone absent is largely used to mark pupil work or develop work for classes.

I find this sort of claim troublesome, because we are at a time when education budgets are being hammered, when headteachers are being asked to make cutback after cutback and still improve results, when pupil support funding is being slashed, and when in Scotland the entire education system is undergoing massive changes.  What I see in my school (and I teach in a school whose catchment area is pretty economically deprived) is staff doing their damndest to try and push, motivate, develop and support pupils to achieve their goals. Do we always succeed? Hell no, I wish we did. Sometimes you have to take heart from small victories. Something which is made harder when you have to read tabloid-style generalisations.

[Robin Low]

Rape accusations are a bit harsh, ...

Yes, they are indeed, and I apologise unreservedly for any offence to you or CF. But that's the problem with generalisations. They are unfair and often wrong.

Regards

Robin

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Aye, well, accusing someone of stealing a bit of milk doesn't really have the same legal implications as accusing someone of rape.

There's a joke here about how Thatcher raped the British Isles AND stole the milk from schools

[Robin Low]

Aye, well, accusing someone of stealing a bit of milk doesn't really have the same legal implications as accusing someone of rape.

I wasn't making an accusation. I was using an incident that happened when I was at university to make a point about generalisations. Nevertheless, I have apologised in my previous post.


Regards

Robin

[JOE SOAP]

I don't believe Robin was accusing anyone of anything but using talk of one incident as an example that could then be extrapolated into a generalisation. Though I have heard similar things said about particular groups of military men, I've also heard the same about rugby teams et al. but that doesn't indicate they're all like that just the same as teachers aren't guzzling free milk for the sake of.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

I believe I understand, Robin was demonstrating how things can be blown out of proportion. This makes me FURIOUS

[JOE SOAP]

Robin was demonstrating how things can be blown out of proportion. This makes me FURIOUS

I believe a man in your position would rape him and steal his milk.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Robin was demonstrating how things can be blown out of proportion. This makes me FURIOUS

I believe a man in your position would rape him and steal his milk.

Nice euphemism

[Eric Plumrose]

teachers are entitled to free drinks of tea and coffee at any time they like, WHY! This comes out of the schools budget and guess what the cost was because of these piss takers.

Um. Lemme get this straight. These teachers make use of something they're entitled to, right? They are therefore piss-takers (and wasteful, by crikey!) . . . how?

[JOE SOAP]

Nice euphemism

Glad you noticed, means you thought about it, you're all the same youse.

[COMMANDO FORCES]

Before I go on can you please quote me where I said that my mates information went on everwhere in the public sector. I think as is the norm, you just saw words that didn't actually exist in my post about his place and just jumped in to defend against something you thought you saw!.

Lets get this straight shall we, the person who runs the school kitchens and then tells me what goes on must be a liar, as that is the implication of what you have said. Excellent, then that would mean that everything you say that comes from any source must be bollocks a well.

I can never understand why people can't admit there is a vast amount of waste in both sectors. How many times must I tell you that I saw waste at my place and no fucker gave a shit. I put my head on the line with another bloke to say something about this to the boss and guess what, bugger all got done. At least I know I did my bit to stop it but as far as I can see that's our country for you, nobody seems to give a shit.

Now back to the tea and coffee, why should anyone be given free food or drink at work, as far as I can see they are there to do their jobs, not get fed and watered. I must be living on another planet, why not go the whole hog and let the cleaners have free tea and coffee as well. I see you mention that you used to bring your own tea bags and coffee in at one of your old departments and at your new place the consultant brings them in for you. Guess what I'm okay with that as that is how it should be done.

I think I remeber you said way back in this thread that your mother found £100,000 of waste and sorted it out. Well I don't believe that as that must be one of those, hang on a second 'secondhand anecdotal stories' that you always go on about. That's how insane it is when people try as hard as you not to believe anything bad against their workplace.

My wife works for the NHS and her mother did her whole life before she retired but I won't mention any of their stories, even if they said just good things about the NHS as these must be discounted, as they are 'secondhand anecdotal stories', see how this can go on.

I went in hospital the other week for an op and I couldn't fault the staff who dealt with me but I'll tell you this. When they came around with tea, coffee and sarnies, I declined as I don't bellieve I'm there to be fed. I did ask for some water though, as that was free. I'm not saying that other patients don't need to be fed but I was only in for about 6 hours and didn't want to be a burden on their budget as I have my principles and I actually live by them.

I did like the uneducated murderous rapists comments as I knew you would resort to stuff like that and don't worry I don't accept your apology, as you should stand by your words as I do mine. If you had said them verbally I could understand, as it would be in the heat of the moment but typing them takes a bit of time and you can always check before you post.

Yes I'm sure squaddies have murdered people (the bloke who played that bod on Eastenders for one). I'm sure they have raped people and I'm sure that some are uneducated as with people in every other job in life.
Do you want me to mention the amount of money that is paid out due to the mistakes that happen in our hospitals every year. Now that is a disgrace but obviously those BILLIONS are only paid out for a few mistakes. Now obviously you probably think I made that up cause a mate told me or something, so just for you have a look at this article. They must be making mistakes all the time, I could go on about the state of the cleaning in hospitals. MRSA must be something I just made up and then we get down to the doctors and nurses who actually go out of their way to kill people. A small amount I know but never the less they exist. I do find it fun to point these things out, which I wasn't really bothered about as all I mention was tea and coffee at a school but I'm quite enjoying it now. I'll let you do a search for the doctors and nurses who kill as I'm sure you don't believe any of these people could do such a thing.

I love the way you link teachers having free tea and coffee to military personel being given treatment after being wounded, I don't think the comparison really works but good try. I suppose that would work for a firefighter, policeman/woman, etc...

You mention they all 'volunteered for a potentially lethal and sometimes morally dubious occupation'. Well they volunteered to join the forces to defend this country as the primary role and for adventure (probably the other way round I suspect), obviously you will have those who actually might want to just kill someone. The dubious occupation, well you can thank Labour for that. When two of my nephews wanted to join I laid it all out for them the good and the bad. I pressed home the fact that if they happened to become injured then don't expect the forces to give a shit but they both signed up anyway.

Now I'll actually use a full quote from yourself this time just to clarify something.

Oh, and I've agreed before that there is waste in the Public Sector. My questions have always been is it as widespread as often depicted by the media and the government, and is it really any worse than in the Private Sector which supposedly has all the answers? But one seems to give a shit about about that, either, least of all your good self.

Are you saying with the last part that I don't give a shit about the waste in the private sector, just look at what I mention earlier on in this post. I was that whistleblower and nothing happened, so please don't say that I don't care. Then again that could be one of those secondhand anecdotal stories if the other bloke told you it 

Why do people find it hard to believe that the PUBLIC SECTOR has waste in it. Fucking Hell the PRIVATE SECTOR does and I'm the first to admit it. I mention one specific point and it's like I've said the Left loves wars and Gaddafi.

Can anyone of you say that there is NO WASTE in the PUBLIC SECTOR with your hand on your heart. I thought not so why shout to the high heavens that there isn't as that is what it feels like you are doing.

Before I go and learn my ABD's and rape someone before I kill them, don't forget to quote me where I mentioned that this tea/coffee incident went on everywhere