The Political Thread

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

If only there was a political party that spoke to the wants and needs of the increasingly disenfranchised in the post-industrial heartlands of Central Scotland and Northern England. Someone in Glasgow has more in common with someone in Liverpool than someone in Orkney or London.

If only there was a party that fastened itself to the ideals of the working man. You know, a labourer. It could name itself after them. "Worker Party", maybe.

[Ghost MacRoth]

That's crazy talk Dr X, quit talking crazy talk!!

[Dog Deever]

I think anything with the word 'Socialist' or 'Worker' in it is a non-starter. For some reason, in the UK psyche (though far less so in Scotland) 'socialist'= 'communist' = 'fascist' = 'nazi' = 'death camps' = 'state censorship and control'. I think any name would need to be a bit less armed-revolutiony. 

The irony is- we actually have much of that under the democratic right. The idea is true enough, a new centre left. I don't know much about the greens- could they do what the SNP did in Scotland and woo left-Labour support over to stage a coup?
How well supported are they in England, Wales and N.I.?

[Fungus]

Socialist = Death Camps ? Eh ?

[Ghost MacRoth]

'National Socialism'....see where he's going?

[TordelBack]

Or just 'socialism' -> 'communism' -> 'Stalin' -> 'Death Camps'.  Either is good.

[Dog Deever]

Or just 'socialism' -> 'communism' -> 'Stalin' -> 'Death Camps'.  Either is good.

Oh yes, definitely! I was trying to get across how the 'nazi's' and 'commies' converge into one homogenous lump of death-camping.

[Fungus]

I suppose I was nit-picking, in my annoying way, about the use of 'equals'. 'Cos things are different, not equal. If you want to suggest things lead to other things, well yeah, they do.

But labels are interesting things, Dr X's point. On the face of it I've nothing bad to say about 'national socialism'. But...

[Banners]

I don't know much about the greens- could they do what the SNP did in Scotland and woo left-Labour support over to stage a coup?

Unless you're referring to the mighty Plymouth Argyle, then the answer to that is an emphatic no.

[Hoagy]

I fail to see how " communism didn't work " but fascism has its uses in modern capitalism.

[NapalmKev]

I think anything with the word 'Socialist' or 'Worker' in it is a non-starter. For some reason, in the UK psyche (though far less so in Scotland) 'socialist'= 'communist' = 'fascist' = 'nazi' = 'death camps' = 'state censorship and control'.

Arbitrary comments with no factual proof or point of reference, its like saying everyone in Scotland drinks Irn Bru and Buckfast tonic wine while stamping on each others heads; Which they don't, obviously!

Socialism has many different aspects which can be found here - http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/socialism

As an Englishman/Citizen of the UK, I understand the difference between Socialism and the Gassing of individuals in Concentration Camps - because I'm not a fool!

Cheers

[Frank]

The idea is true enough, a new centre left. I don't know much about the greens- could they do what the SNP did in Scotland and woo left-Labour support over to stage a coup? How well supported are they in England, Wales and N.I.?

1% of the vote in 2010 and a single MP in the liberal capital of Brighton:

Nationally, the Green Party's share of the vote actually went down 0.1% to 1%. In terms of vote share, the BNP (1.9%) and UKIP (3.1%) both did better than the Greens. Nearly twice as many voted BNP as did Green, while three times more people backed UKIP. The BNP almost tripled its support compared to 2005, while UKIP received around half as many votes again as last time.

http://gu.com/p/2gpqj/tw

[Proudhuff]

I take back every thing I've ever said about Glasgow...and Dundee

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

The Greens are wasting their time trying to pick up imaginary votes from the hard left.

Respect and Militant Labour both ploughed that furrow before them and found it to be pretty barren. Sure enough, under the current, heavily left-leaning leadership Green support has declined during what should have been their golden opportunity to exploit LibDem unpopularity. The English & Welsh Greens taking the position to support a Scottish Yes vote was also electorally suicidal.

I would style myself an independent green, as I agree with pretty much everything they say about the environment, but I don't agree that the way to achieve their environmental aims is to tie them to an unpopular socialist and/or nationalist agenda.

[Dog Deever]

I think anything with the word 'Socialist' or 'Worker' in it is a non-starter. For some reason, in the UK psyche (though far less so in Scotland) 'socialist'= 'communist' = 'fascist' = 'nazi' = 'death camps' = 'state censorship and control'.

Arbitrary comments with no factual proof or point of reference, its like saying everyone in Scotland drinks Irn Bru and Buckfast tonic wine while stamping on each others heads; Which they don't, obviously!

Socialism has many different aspects which can be found here - http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/socialism

As an Englishman/Citizen of the UK, I understand the difference between Socialism and the Gassing of individuals in Concentration Camps - because I'm not a fool!

Cheers

Yes, I realise that there are many who understand that Socialism is not the same as either communism or fascism- and you may well be one of them. But there are many more who see no difference between them. Socialism appears to be a dirty word amongst a broad mass of people, partly because of the nonsense that the gutter press spouts for their masters in Westminster- I'm not saying it should be a dirty word, quite the reverse.
I don't need to quote from books or copy/ paste statistics from a website to prove and verify this because I don't live in a bubble. Being a socialist supporter, it is my broad experience of life and the attitudes of people who 'don't really do politics'- because these people either don't vote at all or else just do what the man on the telly says. Not everyone in the country is interested- voting stats in recent general elections show this- roughly only half of the electorate bother to turn up.

Not the hard left- woo the centre-left. The hard left are revolutionaries, not voters.