The Political Thread

[JOE SOAP]

I'm not asking out of snarkyness but are we not designed to eat fruit, vegetables, grains etc. and meat?

That depends on whether you agree with the long-term effects eating meat and dairy has on human health for the majority of people. Prostate cancer, many other cancers, osteoporosis and heart disease were almost unheard of in countries such as Japan before they adopted a more Western diet of red meat, refined sugar etc. after World War II. These diseases were of course all ready prevalent in the West but have reached almost epidemic proportions in the last century because of how much more we consume of the stuff; because it's so much easier to acquire and that we eat less plant-based food as a result which should make up the majority of our daily diet if we want to avoid chronic illness or rely on medication.

[TordelBack]

The argument there is one of degree, as well as being tied up with wider lifestyle factors.  But I would agree that from the health side the best arguments come from evidence-based study. 

[JOE SOAP]

The argument there is one of degree, as well as being tied up with wider lifestyle factors.

Aye and it's the degree to which us folk tend to favour the wrong end of the slide that gets us in trouble but the China cancer-atlas and the cross-referencing with US studies (outside the FDA) are very convincing.

[The Legendary Shark]

Keep 5% of the pigs alive, put 1% into zoos, 1% as pets and release the other 3% into the wild in suitable areas. Slaughter the rest and grind half up to fertilise the soy fields and freeze the rest as a hedge against famine.

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Simples.

[Hawkmumbler]

I only occasionally eat red meat and only eat species of fish that can be farmed such a cod or mackerel.

[Professor Bear]

Well then you've been engaging with very dim vegetarian and vegans.

That was rather the subtext of my original post.

To be fair, maybe they aren't dim - maybe they just don't have the energy for an argument.

[Theblazeuk]

Chemtrails.

The product of the people who don't know about water vapour and/or how engines work?

Or a sinister conspiracy all aroud (above) us?

Surprisingly popular theory amongst the crustys at Glasto I found.

[The Legendary Shark]

At first, nobody believed that burning petrol with lead in it did any harm.

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Burning aviation fuel in the higher atmosphere does need looking at quite urgently. The hole in the ozone layer is still there, despite us cutting down our cfc use, so all suspects must be investigated. As far as I can recall, burning aviation fuel does produce things like barium and aluminium (which is a potent neurotoxin).

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If there is a conspiracy here, it's probably essentially the same as the one to keep lead in petrol - because it was cheaper and easier to do so.

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Whether chemtrails are a real attempt at geoengineering or poisoning the general population to keep us sick and easily repressed is immaterial, I think. With all the upheavals in our atmosphere I think that jet exhausts simply must be studied more closely. Viewing chem/contrails as pretty white lines in the sky too high up to be of any concern is foolish and dangerous.

[Ancient Otter]

I only occasionally eat red meat and only eat species of fish that can be farmed such a cod or mackerel.

Fish farming has it's problems too  - waste from the fish, fish escaping from farms, parasites from farmed fish attacking wild fish etc.  I used to not eat fish but reading The Dead Seas by Taras Grescoe and watching Hughs Fish Fight convinced me to eat fish, sustainably.

At first, nobody believed that burning petrol with lead in it did any harm.

Looks like it was know at the time of invention that it did and there was an industry cover-up, the inventor also pioneered the use of CFCs in fridges, making him possibly one of the most destructive people in the history of the planet....Have a read here about the invention of leaded petrol.

[Hawkmumbler]

I only occasionally eat red meat and only eat species of fish that can be farmed such a cod or mackerel.

Fish farming has it's problems too  - waste from the fish, fish escaping from farms, parasites from farmed fish attacking wild fish etc.  I used to not eat fish but reading The Dead Seas by Taras Grescoe and watching Hughs Fish Fight convinced me to eat fish, sustainably.

Farming was perhaps a poor choice of words. Culturing, maybe. I was referring to fishing wild shoaling fish in minimal numbers with the entire cull listed as valid so as to reduce the level of RTSD's*. I also tend to buy my fish from a local fishmonger, who, as you said, fishes sustainably. Also, more appealing than lugging around a hideous super market.

*Returned To Sea Deceased. A term the aforementioned monger (no relation) uses to describe waisted fish that are considers to small to fillet and sell.

[Ancient Otter]

I only occasionally eat red meat and only eat species of fish that can be farmed such a cod or mackerel.

Fish farming has it's problems too  - waste from the fish, fish escaping from farms, parasites from farmed fish attacking wild fish etc.  I used to not eat fish but reading The Dead Seas by Taras Grescoe and watching Hughs Fish Fight convinced me to eat fish, sustainably.

Farming was perhaps a poor choice of words. Culturing, maybe. I was referring to fishing wild shoaling fish in minimal numbers with the entire cull listed as valid so as to reduce the level of RTSD's*. I also tend to buy my fish from a local fishmonger, who, as you said, fishes sustainably. Also, more appealing than lugging around a hideous super market.

*Returned To Sea Deceased. A term the aforementioned monger (no relation) uses to describe waisted fish that are considers to small to fillet and sell.

Oh yeah sorry I should have made that clearer, didn't mean it as a nag against you Hawkmonger!

[Hawkmumbler]

No apologies needed Otter, purely down to my oft none existent linguistic capabilities.

[Mikey]

Looks like it was know at the time of invention that it did and there was an industry cover-up, the inventor also pioneered the use of CFCs in fridges, making him possibly one of the most destructive people in the history of the planet....Have a read here about the invention of leaded petrol.

Great link Ancient Otter - strike one for the geochemists! I hadn't come across that website before and my procrastination is now moving to a whole new level. Thanks!

M

[Tiplodocus]

Well then you've been engaging with very dim vegetarian and vegans.

That was rather the subtext of my original post.

To be fair, maybe they aren't dim - maybe they just don't have the energy for an argument.

Miss, Miss! Prof Bear is making jokes from 1972.

[The Legendary Shark]

Unconditional Basic Income.

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This idea, which originated (this time around) in Switzerland iIrc, is interesting. Basically, we do away with all conditional state benefits in favour of a basic payment to everybody of enough to live on with no conditions attached.

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My favourite argument in favour of this idea is how fundamentally empowering it would be. Most people want to be useful and for many that desire manifests as the desire to work, which at the moment makes tyrants of some bosses. Now imagine you get fifteen hundred quid a month regardless and your boss comes to you on a Friday night telling you that your weekend off's just been cancelled and that if you don't like it you can just... Oi! Where do you think you're going...?
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Deep joy!
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Here's a link for a petition which, if enough signatures are gathered, will require the E.U. to look into it:  basicincome2013.eu/

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I can think of several upsides to this - anyone else got any thoughts?