Surprised to see no mention of this - has everyone given up on it? Ratings seemed to be a little down on last year.
It was nominally watchable, but the plot ran out of steam about two thirds in.
I'm still a fan of Capaldi, but some of the whimsy of it all puts me off!
Matt Lucas' character wasn't as irritating as before, which was something!
Not sure of what to make of the new companion either, appears a little too comedic for my tastes!
Not convinced what the series needs is another Bonnie Langford!
I was going to start a thread and didn't :S
I see Charlie Brooker's 2016 Wipe is comically calling for a return of the word "Meh" from the early noughties as things have taken a turn for the violent and reactionary in the last few years and hopefully he'll take some heart in the fact that Moffat's Who is leading the charge to reinstate that word in the national consciousness.
Not bad, some nice touches (the screen-split stuff was good, Matt Lucas is funny) but overall a bit flimsy and the attempts at emotional resonance feel tacked-on. Meh I say.
Crikey I don't remember ever seeing a teaser for an upcoming series at the end of a christmas episode and thinking "whatever" before either. THE CREEPING INDIFFERENCE HAS TAKEN HOLD.
Just watched it. Thoroughly enjoyed it. It would have worked better without the obvious Reeve-Superman riffing, maybe with just an empowered kid. But it was a lot better than I expected (hence I put off watching it until my boys nagged me into it).
Quote from: Steve Green on 29 December, 2016, 08:59:34 PM
Surprised to see no mention of this - has everyone given up on it? Ratings seemed to be a little down on last year.
Yeah seeing your thread really brought home how this series, once such a source of conversation here, has falled off the radar. Now okay the board is quieter these days but its still pretty active and the lack of comment to date doesn't half speak volumes for this once great shows fall from grace. Such a shame.
Which is a very round about way of me saying. Yep I've long ago given up.
Yeah, pretty much what I felt - the superhero action stuff was pretty clunky and the villains didn't feel like much of a threat.
I hope Jim didn't see the lettering on that opening comic strip.
It was alright. I really just wanted more focus on the Doctor and less on the superhero love triangle.
Quote from: Steve Green on 29 December, 2016, 09:20:29 PM
I hope Jim didn't see the lettering on that opening comic strip.
You know what I'd forgotten about that.
COMIC SANS.(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lll8k33Wlc1qdikhoo1_500.gif)
Capaldi was great - definitely one of my favourite Doctors. The episode was a bit naff though.
Capaldi was great in this episode... but, he was a secondary character in awfully blunt and cheap story. That's shame.
I enjoyed it despite it being an obvious plug to American audiences it wasn't too mawkish and I thought the aliens with their flip-top heads was a great idea. Peter Capaldi seems to be a very convincing older Doctor like William Hartnell and Jon Pertwee combined.
I thought it was OK. It's a pity Capaldi hasn't had better writing or, more accurately, that the series still lacks a decent script editor. Par for the course these days, but shows really suffer from a lack of consistency and someone to challenge the showrunner. (We're watching Lucifer right now, and the relationship between the two leads makes no sense whatsoever. It's clear what the writers are going for, but the execution is appalling.)
That said, for any issues I have with Moffat, I can't say I'm looking forward to Chris Chibnall taking over. He's done very little I've liked, and almost nothing in the Doctor Who universe I'd want to watch again. That it'll also likely come with Capaldi leaving and probably being replaced by a much younger Doctor won't help matters.
Maybe it is time for the BBC to give Dr. Who a very long rest again.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 30 December, 2016, 10:22:37 AM
I thought it was OK. It's a pity Capaldi hasn't had better writing or, more accurately, that the series still lacks a decent script editor. Par for the course these days, but shows really suffer from a lack of consistency and someone to challenge the showrunner. (We're watching Lucifer right now, and the relationship between the two leads makes no sense whatsoever. It's clear what the writers are going for, but the execution is appalling.)
That said, for any issues I have with Moffat, I can't say I'm looking forward to Chris Chibnall taking over. He's done very little I've liked, and almost nothing in the Doctor Who universe I'd want to watch again. That it'll also likely come with Capaldi leaving and probably being replaced by a much younger Doctor won't help matters.
Is Capaldi going to leave then? Oh dear but I guess if you think it's not really happening and with Moffat clearly more interested in Sherlock you can see why.
Quote from: Greg M. on 30 December, 2016, 10:25:58 AMMaybe it is time for the BBC to give Dr. Who a very long rest again.
I'm not sure that would be beneficial, given the friction in resurrecting old properties – especially from the BBC. (Well, unless they're relatively cheap, like a sit-com.) Really, Who could be helped immensely with three things:
1. A script editor with some serious clout, capabilities and power.
2. Someone who knows how to mix audio (and who could replace that god-awful lead on the opening soundtrack – really, they need a better audio producer too).
3. Stop messing around with broadcast times (less of an issue with iPlayer, but still a problem for live family viewing).
Quote from: IAMTHESYSTEM on 30 December, 2016, 10:27:53 AMIs Capaldi going to leave then? Oh dear but I guess if you think it's not really happening and with Moffat clearly more interested in Sherlock you can see why.
Moffat's definitely gone. I don't recall if he's said he won't write again, but he might want to be hands off, in the same way Davies was. As for Capaldi, rumours have swirled, but I don't recall anyone confirming anything one way or another. However, a new showrunner would be the obvious point for a regeneration – a fresh start and all that. (Personally, I'd like to see continuity. You never know.)
I agree that all your points would help the programme (especially the first one, I've said it myself many times) but I almost wonder if it's too late for that, and if the show has simply had its day. Do people still care about modern Who? (I admit, this may simply be me projecting my own disenchantment with the show onto the wider audience.)
I know it's a cheap shot, but it's ironic for a show that sought to satirise the superhero genre, that Doctor Who has almost become a parody of itself!
Maybe I'm just old and nostalgic, but I really miss those early horror themed episodes of the Tom Baker era.
Modern who, is just too safe and cosy for my tastes, I fear.
I still watch it in the hope it'll improve, but I think it needs a drastic shake up to survive.
Quote from: Greg M. on 30 December, 2016, 10:53:45 AM
I agree that all your points would help the programme (especially the first one, I've said it myself many times) but I almost wonder if it's too late for that, and if the show has simply had its day. Do people still care about modern Who? (I admit, this may simply be me projecting my own disenchantment with the show onto the wider audience.)
On the whole, viewing figures are fine, it sells, and it results in a ton of march ops. So I can't see it going anywhere. As for having had its day, I don't think it's any worse now than it has ever been since it came back. I suspect people are just becoming jaded with more of the 'same', even in a show that by design has to be more ambitious than most in an ongoing basis. The novelty factor has gone. Perhaps their kids are no longer interested. I dunno.
I still like it, but my main issues with the show (overbearing music; iffy theme; poor script editing) have been there since RTD, and, for that matter, for chunks of the original run too.
I gave up on Doctor Who with the by now legendary Doctor playing guitar on a tank scene. Used to enjoy the programme but now it just makes me cringe.
RTD had appalling CGI wheelie bins eating people, so, y'know.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 30 December, 2016, 05:22:32 PM
I don't think it's any worse now than it has ever been since it came back.
This is to some extent subjective, but on this point I disagree. NuWho has been a mix of the good, the bad and the occasionally great since its inception, but I feel the balance has shifted significantly in favour of the dross. The average RTD era episode was decent enough - well, in the first three seasons, anyway - but Moffat's era has gone from wildly inconsistent (with undoubted flashes of genius - Moffat's dreadful at plot logic, but he can still do atmosphere very well) to diabolical. Nothing that happens to any of the characters matters, everything can just be undone again, and even the decent ideas are at least a draft away from fulfilling their potential.
As for the younger audience - well, speaking as a teacher, I find it interesting that even into the Matt Smith run, I'd hear pupils talking about the show or professing fandom. Not any longer.
Nothing will ever be as bad as the time Jesus Doctor stopped the Space-Titanic from crashing into Buckingham Palace after being carried aloft by robot angels and talking to Kylie Minogue's ghost and thanked by a grateful and wavy HM The Queen and her corgis.
But yep, everything IndigoPrime said.
Xmas special was nothing more than OK. If they were going for something that emulated a second rate American fantasy show on the CW, they did a pretty good job. Trouble is, it was nothing like Dr Who.
Nowhere near as bad as 'Hell Bent', though... Change badly needed. Capaldi is great when he gets a decent script, but my wife and kids just don't like him and won't watch any more, and that's a problem. Beginning to be difficult to figure out who the show is being aimed at.
Also, wasn't there some bullshit reason the Doctor couldn't go back to New York to visit Amy and Rory? What happened there?
Quote from: Andy B on 02 January, 2017, 02:38:26 AM
Also, wasn't there some bullshit reason the Doctor couldn't go back to New York to visit Amy and Rory? What happened there?
...in 1938. The Return of Doctor Mysterio was set in 1992.
I thought it was about the best Xmas special they've done. Pretty good fun all around.
I agree that the show needs some stronger writing and general direction though. The show should pick a tone and stick to it. It tries to be a comedy, drama, Sci-Fi, fantasy, horror, romance all at the same time.
Quote from: sheridan on 02 January, 2017, 04:59:38 AM
Quote from: Andy B on 02 January, 2017, 02:38:26 AM
Also, wasn't there some bullshit reason the Doctor couldn't go back to New York to visit Amy and Rory? What happened there?
...in 1938. The Return of Doctor Mysterio was set in 1992.
She's what, 25 when she goes back to 1938, then dies aged 87 in 2000 - doesn't that mean she would still be knocking around in 1992?
Quote from: JamesC on 02 January, 2017, 06:19:17 PM
The show should pick a tone and stick to it.
You mean like it has literally never done in its 50-odd year history?
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 02 January, 2017, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: JamesC on 02 January, 2017, 06:19:17 PM
The show should pick a tone and stick to it.
You mean like it has literally never done in its 50-odd year history?
I'd say each multi-part storyline would have a pretty consistent tone back in the old days, and the best of the Nu-Who stories maintain a consistent tone throughout the episode.
Quote from: JamesC on 02 January, 2017, 10:58:24 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 02 January, 2017, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: JamesC on 02 January, 2017, 06:19:17 PM
The show should pick a tone and stick to it.
You mean like it has literally never done in its 50-odd year history?
I'd say each multi-part storyline would have a pretty consistent tone back in the old days, and the best of the Nu-Who stories maintain a consistent tone throughout the episode.
I don't think the show attempting to do romance/comedy/drama is a problem - as Jim says, it has always done that. I think the tonal problem is that it wants to be taken much more seriously than the old series (exploring the Doctor's inner world and presenting "real" companions with real world problems and proper reactions and emotions to their travels) while also wanting to be much sillier and illogical/fantastical ("The moon is an egg!", "reboot the Universe by remembering me" etc.). I think it is the stretch at both ends beyond what the old show did, which had a fairly consistent "tone" in the sense it had barriers it didn't cross (all fantastical things are ultimately science based for example). This is not a new problem for Nu Who though
I gave up on Doctor Who when I realised that it was no longer being made for me. It was being made for overseas sales to BBC America. Round about Matt Smith's second year as The Doctor. It went downhill for me after that. I still watched the odd episode but once Capaldi became The Doctor I decided it was the right time to make a clean break.
I thought it was great. Capaldi definitely shaping up to be one of the best Doctors now he's rid of Clara and the "Am I a guid man?" subplot.
I'm not sure it is the best Christmas special, but I enjoyed this year's a lot. I thought it was good fun.
Then again I'm partial to Christopher Reeve's Superman character and films too.
Quote from: IAMTHESYSTEM on 30 December, 2016, 10:08:36 AM
I enjoyed it despite it being an obvious plug to American audiences it wasn't too mawkish and I thought the aliens with their flip-top heads was a great idea. Peter Capaldi seems to be a very convincing older Doctor like William Hartnell and Jon Pertwee combined.
This ^^^
I liked it too.
I thought it was good.
For some reason, every year, people who never miss an episode come on this messageboard and write an essay about how shit it is. Pay no attention.
Quote from: Richard on 03 January, 2017, 08:27:12 PM
For some reason, every year, people who never miss an episode come on this messageboard and write an essay about how shit it is. Pay no attention.
That's not inconsistent... if they didn't love Dr Who, why would they
care that it's shit?
I'm happy to see that a bunch of people liked it more than I did.
Quote from: 8-Ball on 02 January, 2017, 11:56:33 PM
I still watched the odd episode but once Capaldi became The Doctor I decided it was the right time to make a clean break.
That's a shame... Try 'Under the Lake', and if you don't like that,
then give up.
Quote from: Andy B on 04 January, 2017, 05:30:50 AM
Quote from: 8-Ball on 02 January, 2017, 11:56:33 PM
I still watched the odd episode but once Capaldi became The Doctor I decided it was the right time to make a clean break.
That's a shame... Try 'Under the Lake', and if you don't like that, then give up.
"Mummy on the Orient Express" was for me about the best distillation of Nu Who done right, but I still havent got round to watching the last 2 episodes of the last series or the 2 Christmas specials following
Quote from: Andy B on 04 January, 2017, 05:25:56 AM
Quote from: Richard on 03 January, 2017, 08:27:12 PM
For some reason, every year, people who never miss an episode come on this messageboard and write an essay about how shit it is. Pay no attention.
That's not inconsistent... if they didn't love Dr Who, why would they care that it's shit?
I'm happy to see that a bunch of people liked it more than I did.
Yeah I think it's in terminal decline but I still find myself curiously drawn to it, with a frantic junkie madness that one day somehow it'll be as good as once maybe I dreamt it was. I don't resent people for liking it though that would be insanity itself. I like hearing people's opinion on stuff - negative or positive, I wouldn't be posting on here otherwise.
Perhaps we should have a "People who are annoyed with Dr Who but are somehow watching it regardless" thread and a "People who love Dr Who" thread? That way we wouldn't have any dreaded contamination of the two types.
I wonder how much of this is fatigue with the lack of novelty now, though. After all, how many shows are people still desperately clamouring to watch after nine series? In fact, I'm wondering how many things I rush to watch that have gone on for more than a couple. Game of Thrones, perhaps.
Doctor Who for me sits in that place that's kind of cosy. It wouldn't be world-ending if I missed it, but I still find it a decent way to while away 45 minutes. (See also: Elementary, Qi, and so on.)
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 04 January, 2017, 04:21:03 PM
I wonder how much of this is fatigue with the lack of novelty now, though. After all, how many shows are people still desperately clamouring to watch after nine series? In fact, I'm wondering how many things I rush to watch that have gone on for more than a couple. Game of Thrones, perhaps.
Doctor Who for me sits in that place that's kind of cosy. It wouldn't be world-ending if I missed it, but I still find it a decent way to while away 45 minutes. (See also: Elementary, Qi, and so on.)
certainly I think novelty is part of the problem - look at the journey the original show takes in it's first 11 years, from Hartnell to Pertwee! That is some journey, with a lot of different approahces being tried out by disparate production teams not really paying a huge amount of diligence to the tone of what has gone before (though being surprisingly faithful to what is factually introduced in the most part to the degree it always feels like the same show).
Contrast that with 11 years of a kind of fan based "vision" of what the show/character should be that has persisted from Eccleston onwards (dialed back in that first series, but with its success, the tidal wave was kind of unleashed and we are still playing out teh same dramas "Am I a good man?" asks Capaldi... STILL
Watched it with my brother on Xmas day - at the end I declared it the best of the Xmas specials, he thought it was the worst! I hated all those mawkishly sentimental ones where the destruction of the universe is halted by the power of Christmas wishes or somesuch bollox. I think they should be FUN - not heavy on continuity, just a bit of festive silliness, and this one had it in spades.
Anyone notice the geeky reference at the beginning when the PR guy tells the assembled press "for more details, see Ms Seigel or Ms Schuster afterwards"
Quote from: Dandontdare on 05 January, 2017, 02:36:15 PM
Anyone notice the geeky reference at the beginning when the PR guy tells the assembled press "for more details, see Ms Seigel or Ms Schuster afterwards"
I didn't notice, but I'll listen more carefully next time (and there will be a next time, as I enjoyed the episode).
Quote from: sheridan on 05 January, 2017, 09:48:25 PM
Quote from: Dandontdare on 05 January, 2017, 02:36:15 PM
Anyone notice the geeky reference at the beginning when the PR guy tells the assembled press "for more details, see Ms Seigel or Ms Schuster afterwards"
I didn't notice, but I'll listen more carefully next time (and there will be a next time, as I enjoyed the episode).
Nope, that one went over my head.
Last call for Capaldi's Who.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-38805151
Getting out before the next series airs. This makes me nervous.
QuoteI gave up on Doctor Who when I realised that it was no longer being made for me
truly this....I thought capaldi would save it but the 'funny' Sontaran and the interspecies couple/detectives are just too 'modern who' for me.....
I've mentioned this before but Capaldi playing guitar on the tank scene was the end for me. I think a huge amount of old fans probably dropped out with the Missy/Cybermen two parter.
Personally I think he could have been one of the best Doctors but to me he was saddled with some ridiculous, cringe inducing stories. I think my issue with the series lay with Stephen Moffett who I see as very much being about style over substance (same problem with Sherlock). Capaldi would have had the credibility and standing to curb some of Moffett's excesses but he obviously didn't.
I find it telling that more hasn't been made of this on the forums. Surely we are the perfect audience? Old enough to stay up for it (the last series was ridiculously late in the schedules for a family show) and nostalgic for the last century version. I think Who has lost it's way and needs a reboot so perhaps his leaving is a good thing. I expect the new Doc to be male, white and middle class and I don't think that's a bad thing. Give him the new companion and a Time Lady to travel with and ditch the season story arcs. Bring back the fun!
Quote from: Daveycandlish on 31 January, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
I find it telling that more hasn't been made of this on the forums. Surely we are the perfect audience? Old enough to stay up for it (the last series was ridiculously late in the schedules for a family show) and nostalgic for the last century version. I think Who has lost it's way and needs a reboot so perhaps his leaving is a good thing. I expect the new Doc to be male, white and middle class and I don't think that's a bad thing. Give him the new companion and a Time Lady to travel with and ditch the season story arcs. Bring back the fun!
I suspect Chibnall is not the man to reboot the series - I imagine it will be more of the same with diminishing returns, as another of the fan writers who seem too reverential to the admittedly very well orchestrated RTD reinvention to really break ranks with it
Three Doctors in a row have been awesome, perfectly cast actors performing in mostly mediocre or worse scripts.
Whomever replaces Capaldi will face the same challenge under Chibnall. Possibly moreso.
I agree that the show needs a proper reboot, and I reckon the BBC should also ditch the idea of a lead writer, in favour of empowering a good script editor.
I've been saying the same for a long time. The problem with Who is in placing too much control in the hands of a single person. With RTD, the series just about got away with it, due to his enthusiasm, goodwill from viewers, and the manic energy Eccles infused the Doctor with. But even then, you saw the cracks and issues – too much hand-wavey inconsistency and arcs that just didn't work at all.
But then this seems par for the course in an awful lot of television these days. I've been watching Lucifer on Amazon and, my word, it's like no-one's actually bothered to sit down and figure out how the leads should interact. Their relationship makes no sense whatsoever, and characters become chess pieces to further weak arcs and frequently nonsensical plot devices.
Nu Who needs a fundamental rethink-it's been treading water for far too long.
I've gone through all the five stages with nu-who, denial anger etc ... I've now reached acceptance of it for what it is, and I'm much happier because of it. If I don't try to make sense of long arcs, or worry about annoying companions, I can enjoy the show much more than I used to.
I think Capaldi has been superb, and at least nowadays when it goes over the top (eg tank-guitar) it's for reasons of tongue-in-cheek humour rather than mawkish sentimentality, as it was with Tennant and Smith
Quote from: Dandontdare on 03 February, 2017, 04:29:03 PM
I've gone through all the five stages with nu-who, denial anger etc ... I've now reached acceptance of it for what it is, and I'm much happier because of it. If I don't try to make sense of long arcs, or worry about annoying companions, I can enjoy the show much more than I used to.
I think Capaldi has been superb, and at least nowadays when it goes over the top (eg tank-guitar) it's for reasons of tongue-in-cheek humour rather than mawkish sentimentality, as it was with Tennant and Smith
Fair play, but when it's the flagship British science fiction show, let's face it
the only British science fiction show, mediocre is just not good enough!
Especially when the premise offers so much potential.
just go old school or Big Finish and move to BBC 2 at 9pm ktnakjx
So, this is also the general Doctor Who thread?
New trailer is out!