...PROG 1549, Mind-Shattering!..

[gurnard]

Has anyone else, with a sub, still not received their prog?  Was there another postal strike in the UK, me I am based in Belgium but progs normally get here on Monday

[Dudley]

Wagner/Rennie cloning experiment

I'm very surprised that Rennie's NYPD Blue generic American cop show in the future take is still being confused with Wagner.  If you want to know which one's which, just look for the great dangling plot threads and the "to be continued" or "...will return" sign hanging over most of the villains.

[TordelBack]

I'm very surprised that Rennie's NYPD Blue generic American cop show in the future take is still being confused with Wagner.

Well, touché.  There's no doubt that the Family Dredd / Obscure Element of Fiendish Plot by Future Major Villain themes scream Rennie, but you usually have to go quite far into the episode/story to encounter these - in the meantime Dredd always sounds convincing (to me) and acts appropriately, and at least the cop show is set in the future, and not just some jurisdiction with funny uniforms.  There's too much reliance on the supporting cast, and in establishing a wider Rennieverse of threats that develop over too long a (real time) period to be readily satisfying, but his Dredd seldom lets me down, and rarely comforts the afflicted.

[Eck]

Narration and dialogue are similar in some ways. I mean, they're both just exposition. They both reveal something through words what could have been shown visually. It's just that with dialogue at least there's interaction within panels. Whether or not something should be shown visually is another matter entirely.

An example could be the 'Royale with cheese' scene in Pulp Fiction, which Chris Vogler does a great piece about in 'The Writer's Journey'. It's not technically moving the story forward, but it is giving us an insight into the two characters and lets us empathise with them, so it is worth putting in there. To show that visually would have been shit.

Not all dialogue or narration is dead weight. Apocalypse Now didn't have narration in it's first incarnation. But noone knew what the fuck was going on, so they put one in...and still noone knew what the fuck was going on (heh, good film though).

I just think Morrison should be choosing more carefully what method he's using. For example, when Dredd bursts in at the end, why not have Dredd say that the real murderer has been caught? And then we could see how the protagonist has become a bit mental with him trying to explain himself.


I dunno, it's just a thought.

[Trout]

I wait until Thursday for my bloody prog and what do I get? A "threatened child" Dredd and four fairly unsatisfying "final" episodes. Not too satisfying, I'm afraid.

But I'll try to focus on the positive aspects.

The Dredd story had lovely art. It's a shame we don't see more of Cliff Robinson.
The story itself worked well enough, but it's so similar in style to past Morrison stories that it was hard to take it seriously. I take the point, though, on judging it on its writer rather than its content. I'm trying, here.
I did like the POV device - you slowly realise Klein's account of events is flawed.
I'd say it's an above-average Dredd story.

The end of the 86ers left me wanting more. There are mysteries to be solved, and I'm keen for the answers.
I have less interest in seeing more Greysuit or Robohunter, as they both lost my attention a little.
But I can't get enough of Defoe's wonderful nastiness! I grinned when he booted Cromwell's head off its pike.

Overall, this felt like a loose ends prog normally does. I ate a meal but I'm not as full as I'd like.
New stuff next week - whenever it arrives - will be most welcome.

- Trout

[TordelBack]

Not all dialogue or narration is dead weight. Apocalypse Now didn't have narration in it's first incarnation.

That's a very good point - sometimes narration is worth having.  I for one prefer the original voiceover version of Bladerunner (Deckard is just that much cooler, IMHO), even though I also appreciate the more finished Director's Cut.  Back in comicsland, despite having a masterful artist, Simping Detective makes excellent use of Chandlereque narration, and in Watchmen, a comics masterpiece otherwise devoid of narration, 'Tales of the Black Freighter' derives almost all of its power from its narration.  

Horses for courses.

[JOE SOAP]

In order for narration to really work well in any pictorial medium, it must be counterpoint to what is being shown by the pictures. It shouldn't be commentary.

It works well in Apocalypse Now because it's a train of thought narration that doesn't re-state what's happening on screen. It's recorded very close to the mic, as if it's in Martin Sheen's head, whereas in a film like Blade Runner, it had particularly bad narration because it was basically telling you what was happening on screen most of the time.

This was because the script was fucked up early on when Ridley Scott took the project on. Fancher, the original screenwriter, had wriiten the screenplay without narration but when Scott came onboard he asked that the film have a V.O. like a 40's film noir.

The film was shot with allowances in the new script for narration, meaning any on-screen exposition was lessened, however Scott changed his mind because the V.O. sounded crap in the edit, so he decided to remove it. The film was originally shown to test audiences without V.O. and they understood none of it, there was too little exposition on-screen because it was removed from the action on-screen. So they decided to put the V.O. back in for exposition, it was rewritten and recorded many times back & forth. The more Harrison read it, the more tired he grew of it, which is why a lot of it sounds so crap. It never seemed to work properly so they went with a mash up of the V.O. they had.



This, plus the divergent meanings of the script about Deckard being a replicant or not, which is another Scott retro-fit, are the main reasons Blade Runner ain't the masterpiece it wants to be. What was ultimately shot never truly worked because the original script was altered for a V.O. and story that never gelled, too may conflicting points. So we're left with an expensive and beautiful visual mood piece that is left to be dissected and analysed, through articles and commentaries, telling us what it "should" be about.

Fuck, that was tangent. Sorry.

[TordelBack]

Fuck, that was tangent. Sorry.

Fascinating, though!  

[Van Dom]

Only read the Robo Hunter strip so far - am I the only one enjoying this light relief? Everything else is usually pretty heavy so its nice to have a bit of 'fluff' every so often.
And I know people have reservations but I do think Alan Grant is actually - slowly but surely - going somewhere with this. We're just getting it in small 5 episode bursts. Back in ye olden days you would get a Robohunter story running continuously for up to 20 weeks, or more, so there was time to develop the story, and it didnt seem so random. I think there is an 'epic' story that Grant is trying to tell her, just being segmented a lot. The Casino Royal story was a set-up to Sam being framed by the 5 of Spades and getting sent to jail. Then we have I, Jailbird which shows what happens in jail and sets her off on a mission to France, while introducing the Gerald character. Next we will probably get another 5 episode chunk that shows what happens in France before the story line somehow ties back into the 5 of spades coming back. Then maybe another 5 episode story showing Sam going after that little pest. Although I wouldnt mind if they kept it running a bit longer than that before getting back to the Five of Spades.

In any case, I think the next segment should be more fun and more like the 'good old days'. Theres bound to be lots of weird robot type things in this France of the future, which I dont believe Alan Grant has ever done in the strip. Plenty of stuff to poke fun at, so Im expecting some kooky , off the wall stuff, like from back in the old Rule Brittania days. I just hope Ian Gibson is back in the fold by then, because though I dont mind Williams, only Gibson can do the robots in this story justice.

Anyway, maybe Im just a nut, but Im looking forward to the next installment!!

Off to read the rest now!

[Bad Andy]

Van Dom - I like the cut of your jib.

[Trout]

bound to be lots of weird robot type things in this France of the future

That sounds good to me!

- Trout Goonie Goonie Trout

[Richard]

"France of the future, which I don't believe Alan Grant has ever done in the strip."

I'm pretty sure I remember a French robot in the original series, with a French accent, funny hat and garlic around his neck. Can't recall which exact story though.

[Funt Solo]

Van Dom - I wish your predictions were true, but there's been no evidence so far of any aspects of the "good old days" of Robo-Hunter.  We wait for months between instalments (because that's the modern way of doing 2000AD) so that we could care less about what we vaguely remember of the plot, then we get the new minimalist versions of what were once vibrant, exciting creators (now in the meandering river plain aspects of their lives) and - well, it's just all a bit bloody tedious.

Still, at least someone's enjoying it.

But - look at this cover, which shows the Robo-World collectable poster (circa p283) and then compare the rich madness of it with the tame, dull, banal, driftwood that we're being served up with now:

http://www.2000adonline.com/covers/2000ad/hires/283.jpg" />

[Byron Virgo]

So why do you give a toss if he likes the new Robo-Hunteress? Let him enjoy it if he wants to, you miserable git!

:-P

[Funt Solo]

Fuck off, negativity police!

;)