I'm not enjoying the prog these days - and I know why.

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

I haven't enjoyed the Prog for weeks. Prog 1850, this week's jumping-on issue, lies unloved in my living room. I can't find the energy to read it. I haven't felt this way about the Prog since the dark days of Soul Sisters etc. And I know why.

It's hard to verbalize, so bear with me.

I know 2000ad is an anthology. That is it's strength. If you don't like a story this week, then another will be along soon that you do like.

But, under the guise of an anthology there are two kinds of strip that appear in 2000ad. (Three if you count one-offs, like a Future Shock or 3riller).

First, you get repeat strips. These are old fashioned strips that centre around a character. Dredd. Strontium Dog. Slaine (apart from the insult of Book of Scars). Sinister Dexter. The essence of a strip like this is that, in essence, it is the same story: Dredd chases perps; Johnny Alpha chases a bounty; Slaine chases monsters; SinDex do a hit. They are a constant.

These stories are instantly familiar to concurrent or lapsed readers. New readers can get the set up pretty quick. They can be written by a number of different writers. They are as close to Marvel/ DC stuff as 2000ad gets, in as much as they centre around a character and a premise.

Then, second, you get story strips. These are strips that exist to tell a single narrative. When it's done, it's done. Unlike repeat strips, there is no new tale in the same universe. I'm thinking here of Brass Sun, Blackhawk, Meltdown Man or Red Seas.

Both have their place in the comic. But, increasingly, more and more of the second kind of story is coming to the prog. Given it's weekly nature, and the very long gaps between the blocks that make up a story, what you end up with is a disjointed story that makes me confused and jaded.

Age of the Wolf, The Ten Seconders, Defoe and Damnation Station are all the most recent examples of this.

I look at them and think "oh, this. What was it that happened the last time?" Then I struggle through the opening episode of a new book and have no clue what is going on.

I think the prog needs more balance. Back in the 80s and 90s, there were always two or three strips that were "repeat strips". This is what I would like to see again: some consitent strips that have a familiar background that don't want to tell an epic story and be done. That, by the way, is not to say that they cannot be epic. Rather, what I am getting at is that they don't say what they have to say and then end - but instead they have a universe and characters that can come back again and again.

Without this, I feel the soul of the prog is missing.

[Jim_Campbell]

I'm not not enjoying the prog (if you see what I mean) but I take your point entirely.

Slaine was always a bit more episodic, but, once upon a time, Strontium Dog, Rogue Trooper, Robo Hunter and Ace Trucking were semi-permanent residents, sitting in the prog for stints of six months at a time and they helped solidify the character of the comic. A series that does ten episodes and then it's gone for a year-and-a-half is much harder to develop affection for.

I'm fairly convinced that Sin/Dex's popularity was, in large part, due to its semi-permanent residency in the earlier phase of the strip's life, and Dante always worked best on longer runs as well, IMO.

Of course, the key problem with this is that you either have to have a rotating team of artists, or one artist who can maintain a weekly schedule and who you can rely on not to run off and work for an American publisher as soon as someone wafts an Image book under their noses...

Cheers

Jim

[Frank]

I know what you mean, but it's different for everyone. There's been a constant moaning that everything's shite in the prog review threads for weeks now, but I've been enjoying it the same as usual - more, because of Wagner and Willsher on Dredd. By contrast, when everyone was lapping up Trifecta and associated works and hailing the continuation of Tharg's second golden age, I just thought the prog was alright.

Like you say, it's the nature of the format that whatever balance you choose you can never please everyone. Judge Jack mentions on another thread that he never had much time for Slaine, and I like Rogue Trooper but always got bored of his stories long before they wound up - imagine how readers such as ourselves must have felt during the long periods when either of those returning strips dominated the prog.

I jumped around 2003, after years of Sinister Dexter and Nicolai Dante being constant presences in the weekly. Neither ever really did it for me, and it was clear they would be the future of the comic for years to come.

[JamesC]

There have been a few character strips over the last few years that have had potential and then disappeared.

I think Grey Area could be great and see no reason why different writers and artists couldn't take on stories in that universe. Is it creator owned by Dan Abnett?
Lobster Random and Harry Kipling could be brought back too. I still think there's potential in Samantha Slade's adventures but the character seems rather unpopular.

[Steve Green]

I agree with Dr X, and I think it's more a case that you've got a relatively small band of scriptwriters  producing multiple strips in the prog, as well as any external commitments.

Dredd is the only strip that has a selection of scriptwriters - everything else is handled by a single person.

I'm not sure if this is a conscious decision stemming from when other writers taking over a character didn't go well.

If you've got 3 people working on Trifecta, maybe another (new) strip shared by 2 people working on the script would be an idea?

I don't know - just throwing out ideas.

Maybe what we have now is the least worst option, but I can certainly see the problem with these long arcs which disappear for such a long time.

[Colin YNWA]

I wrote this long post comparing this perceived change to a change seen in comics in general and other storytelling media, telly in particular but even film. All my blathering has been lost to the mists of the internet error nether-worlds but can be summed up by asking is it not merely reflecting changes we see elsewhere in the wider world of storytelling?

[TordelBack]

The gap between 'books' is frustrating, certainly, and there's nothing like giving a series time to build up a head of steam.  On the other hand I enjoy the variety and the sense of expectation that a more diverse rotation brings - I'm literally gagging to read more Damnation Station*, Brass Sun, Flesh and Kingdom, and can't wait to get back to more recent visitors like Defoe, Crucis and Stickleback.  I know and appreciate the lament that folk can't remember what happened last time, but there are so many ways round that problem that it doesn't bother me, and as I'm also fond of noting many of us can't seem to remember what happened last prog anyway...

As it happens I have been enjoying the Prog a great deal over the last good while, not least because of the strength of the 1-3 part shorts.  I find myself groaning when a double episode is announced, because Tharg could have squeezed a Byrne, a Bailie, a Worley, a Kek-W, a Taylor or an Eglington in there. 


*Which had originally looked like it was going to take up a long residency, but now alas will not.

[Steve Green]

I wrote this long post comparing this perceived change to a change seen in comics in general and other storytelling media, telly in particular but even film. All my blathering has been lost to the mists of the internet error nether-worlds but can be summed up by asking is it not merely reflecting changes we see elsewhere in the wider world of storytelling?

Well, there is that - I love story arcs, but I can quite see how off-putting it can be for new viewers who can't dip into a TV show any more, they've really got to start from the beginning.

It's more problematic for the reader an anthology though as you can't buy a digital trade of a single story to get up to speed.

[TordelBack]

It's more problematic for the reader an anthology though as you can't buy a digital trade of a single story to get up to speed.

Which raises the issue 'why not?'.  Right now I can illegally read digital versions of any 2000AD back prog and many complete collections by character and strip despite my country's laughable 'blocking' of Pirate Bay.  Would it not make sense if I could legitimately get digital collections of at least the previous 'book' of each series until such time as it appears in a 'proper' trade?

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

Not really what I mean.

What I'm getting at is, where are the universes? The concepts and characters that are sandboxes, allowing a variety of stories to be told without the thing ending?

Dredd, Stront, SinDex, Slaine.

What about the last 15 years? What new ones have started?

They don't need to have the same creative team; they should be able to function with different inputs. They should, actually, thrive without them

[Steve Green]

It's more problematic for the reader an anthology though as you can't buy a digital trade of a single story to get up to speed.

Which raises the issue 'why not?'.  Right now I can illegally read digital versions of any 2000AD back prog and many complete collections by character and strip despite my country's laughable 'blocking' of Pirate Bay.  Would it not make sense if I could legitimately get digital collections of at least the previous 'book' of each series until such time as it appears in a 'proper' trade?

I suppose it's just a matter of what Rebellion pitch their efforts into with limited resources and this is a low priority.

[Steve Green]

Not really what I mean.

What I'm getting at is, where are the universes? The concepts and characters that are sandboxes, allowing a variety of stories to be told without the thing ending?

Dredd, Stront, SinDex, Slaine.

What about the last 15 years? What new ones have started?

They don't need to have the same creative team; they should be able to function with different inputs. They should, actually, thrive without them

I think there are plenty that could be told or use that world, the problem is that some have a specific voice - e.g. Zombo, you can rule out anything by Pat because of his views on the matter.

Kingdom seems to be the most obvious sandbox tale - I don't know what the agreements are when creating a new strip, it just seems to be the norm that the creator sticks with the strip, even though it's work for hire - maybe it makes for an easier working relationship and development of the strip.

[TordelBack]

I suppose it's just a matter of what Rebellion pitch their efforts into with limited resources and this is a low priority.

Absolutely, but if there is a problem with discontinuity in the episodic series, and I see it here so often in the calls for recap episodes etc. that I suspect that there must be, it might be an avenue to explore with whatever resources they can muster.  It can't be that time-consuming to throw together a no-frills digital archive of a recent strip from existing files, surely?  Spotty oiks seem to manage reasonable-quality versions within minutes of each release.

[dracula1]

There have been a few character strips over the last few years that have had potential and then disappeared.

I think Grey Area could be great and see no reason why different writers and artists couldn't take on stories in that universe. Is it creator owned by Dan Abnett?
Lobster Random and Harry Kipling could be brought back too. I still think there's potential in Samantha Slade's adventures but the character seems rather unpopular.

[dracula1]

As sauchie points out I felt I had to walk the plank on 2000ad weekly around 2003. Too sad to recall really.