The Political Thread

[Ancient Otter]

"Question everything" should be carved in stone over every school entrance.

Including the quote itself and the person who caved it into stone? 

[The Legendary Shark]

Yes.

[Montynero]

It seems that police officers are now being routinely armed on patrol in the UK. Personally I find that alarming, undermining the fundamental principles of policing by consent - the idea that our police force owes its primary duty to the public, rather than the state.

I find it surprising this has been introduced by stealth, the thin end of a very large wedge, and we don't have to look far around the world to realise that armed police don't make the streets any safer.

If you happen to be as annoyed about this as I am, there's a petition to register your disquiet here:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/end-armed-officers-being-sent-on-routine-patrols

[Frank]

If you happen to be as annoyed about this as I am, there's a petition to register your disquiet here:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/end-armed-officers-being-sent-on-routine-patrols

Signed. Nobody else has a gun, ergo the polis do not need guns. Radio Scotland had a police spokesman on yesterday trying to justify the decision, and the best he could come up with was that if a terrorist attack took place he'd want a cop with a gun to be nearby.

He cited the attacks on Glasgow airport to support his argument, apparently forgetting that the two yahoos who set themselves on fire and drove a car into the entrance of the airport were taken down by a kick to the nuts delivered by a driver from the nearby taxi rank.

I'm struggling to think of the last terrorist incident in Scotland prior to that, or how armed cops would have prevented the bomb attacks on the London transport system in 2005, the murder of Lee Rigby in 2013, or the mainland bombing campaign of the IRA during the eighties.

Soldiers with assault weapons, driving round in armoured vehicles, did fuck all to stop daily carnage on the streets of N Ireland, so I'm not sure what difference arming PC Murdoch is supposed to make now. Simply mental.

[Proudhuff]

If you happen to be as annoyed about this as I am, there's a petition to register your disquiet here:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/end-armed-officers-being-sent-on-routine-patrols

Done.

[Jim_Campbell]

Done.

Likewise.

[Grugz]

Nicola hughes and Fiona bone might still have been alive and dale cregan not if they had been armed and therefore able to defend themselves.

[Frank]

Those of you fortunate enough not to live within the STV broadcast area can now catch up on the exciting independence debate between Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling from last night. You didn't miss much:  http://player.stv.tv/programmes/salmond-darling/

[mygrimmbrother]

This is NOT the way to go. It will only lead to escalation.

[Jim_Campbell]

Nicola hughes and Fiona bone might still have been alive and dale cregan not if they had been armed and therefore able to defend themselves.

I would suggest that sidearms aren't much of a defence against hand grenades and, if we're going to start playing games of "what if", we'll need to start totting up the number of innocent people who are going to get shot just because they're in the wrong place at the wrong time.*

Also, the introduction of this policy by stealth is disturbing, and the refusal to take account of the public outcry when it came to light puts the police in a very poor light when considering who is supposed to serve whom in this relationship.

Cheers

Jim

*Or are black. Or in possession of a beard and a suspicious-looking rucksack.

[Grugz]

I do believe he shot them first then lobbed a grenade in. I don't believe arming the police is a bad thing ,yes there will be mistakes made but with the right training surely police wouldn't be running round shooting everyone willy nilly? I went to france once were the gendarmes carry in the week I was there we didn't get shot ,not once.
   the crims have guns and want t use them why shopuldnt the police be able to protect themselves and us with more than some pepper spray and a taser?
and the black with a beard and  rucksack thing? really?

and obviously any serving officers that may frequent or lurk I'd like to know what the boots on the ground think.

[Frank]

Nicola hughes and Fiona bone might still have been alive and dale cregan not if they had been armed and therefore able to defend themselves.

Leaving aside whether that would have been the case or not, the routine arming of any beat cop responding to reports of vandalism (which was what led Hughes and Bone to Cregan's door) isn't what's happening here. Only authorised firearms officers are carrying weapons, and there are no more of them than there were before (only 275 out of 17,318 cops total in Scotland).

Until last year, these cops didn't carry their sidearms when on normal duties, only returning to retrieve them from locked safes in their patrol vehicle when asked to respond to a firearms incident. There has been no explanation of why this policy has changed. That same article linked to above cites a 2006 survey of serving officers which found 82% of them had no wish to see the routine arming of the police force.

[Dog Deever]

the crims have guns and want t use them

It is hysterical assumption that all criminals have guns ESPECIALLY so far away from the hub of black market activity. What a load of hogwash.

and the black with a beard and  rucksack thing? really?

Yes, really. Also if you are Irish or have political beliefs out of tune with the state.

[Frank]

and the black with a beard and  rucksack thing? really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

[Montynero]

Nicola hughes and Fiona bone might still have been alive and dale cregan not if they had been armed and therefore able to defend themselves.

An absolute tragedy, but you can't allow terrorists to dictate your way of life.

Police in America carry guns and more than 100 have been killed in the line of duty every year since 1916 http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html (apart from the war years, interestingly). It demonstrably doesn't lead to greater police safety. Not to mention the much higher numbers of people being shot by the police as a consequence http://jimfishertruecrime.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/police-involved-shootings-2011-annual.html

This experiment has been conducted elsewhere. The results are in. We simply need to make sure we don't make the same mistakes in the UK.