The Political Thread

[JOE SOAP]

Trump is an effect of the failure of the liberal-left. Everybody knows this knows this now. The only way to really beat Trump is to radically rethink what does the left mean today. Otherwise he will be getting ordinary people's votes.

Again, this is the real problem that needs to be addressed. If there's no potent alternative to the Trumps of this world, we'll be getting more of the same from now on. What's left of the Democratic party, after it has been thoroughly hollowed out by the Clinton Foundation, is certainly not it.

[Jim_Campbell]

Again, this is the real problem that needs to be addressed. If there's no potent alternative to the Trumps of this world, we'll be getting more of the same from now on.

I think it bears repeating that Trump didn't win because of a more popular ideology, he won because someone (at this stage it doesn't matter if it was the GOP or the Russians) worked out how to game the Electoral College.

Clinton, despite being a self-evidently terrible candidate, polled almost 3,000,000 more votes than Trump, but he took the Electoral College by 79,000 votes spread over four states. If forty thousand Trump voters had voted the other way, Clinton would have taken the Electoral College as well as the popular vote.

[JOE SOAP]

Clinton, despite being a self-evidently terrible candidate, polled almost 3,000,000 more votes than Trump, but he took the Electoral College by 79,000 votes spread over four states. If forty thousand Trump voters had voted the other way, Clinton would have taken the Electoral College as well as the popular vote.

Whatever way it was gamed is academic now; the fact is enough people still supported him to secure a win, democratically, against a weak candidate - a lot of that is due to democrats being out of touch with working class Americans.

[Hawkmumbler]

To punch someone for something they've said or voted for is not particularly civilised and only a short step away from glassing someone in a pub for supporting the wrong football team or fancying the wrong person.

A very, very long step I'd say.  We're talking about actual Nazis here, relativism has its limits, and that to me is reductio ad absurdum.

I agree, shouting down right wingers and truthers/birthers/pro-lifers/brexiteers etc and abusing and belittling them rather than trying to acknowledge their views and persuade through engagement is utterly counterproductive, as everyone must know by now.

But no-one will ever persuade me that punching an actual  Nazi is somehow wrong.

Tordels know whats up.

[TordelBack]

Agreed. There is no way human filth like Trump should have come within a mile of any elected position. That's the failure that needs to be addressed.

EDIT: agreeing with with Joe there, not agreeing with Hawk agreeing with me! Although I do.

[Jim_Campbell]

That's the failure that needs to be addressed.

Ironically, the Electoral College that system that put him in the White House was, in part, designed to stop unfit candidates from taking the office.

[The Legendary Shark]

If by actual Nazi you mean someone who is going around causing actual bodily harm or putting people in real peril then yes, absolutely I agree that a good, hard punch to the face is in no way unreasonable.

If somebody's just talking about it, however, physical violence is - to my mind - not justified.
I would also like to point out (yet again, heh) that another central plank of Nazism is the amalgamation of business and state, which our government (and the USA and EU amongst many others) is a strong believer in. I, as most of you know, do not believe in this and am, instead, a strong believer in the Free Market. I don't think it would be acceptable for me to punch people in the face over this issue or to accuse people of being Nazis if they support state regulated markets - despite the real and actual misery this system causes

Violence has to be a last resort in a civilised society. Unfortunately, governments can't exist without violence and so violence is what we become used to as the norm. Governments, and violence, are what we were put on this planet to rise above.

All that being said, human beings are still animals and many of us enjoy the odd punch-up just for the fun of it. Maybe there was something truthful in Fight Club after all...

[The Legendary Shark]

Furthermore, I am also in complete agreement that Trump is not in the least bit deserving of his current position.

[Modern Panther]

Link to the petition for government to prevent Trump from making an official state visit.  For anyone who thinks her Maj shouldn't be embarrassed by the difficult decision on whether to sock him one. (She definitely should). It at least brings attention to the issue.

https://petition.parliament.uk

[SuperSurfer]

Problem with the punch a Nazi approach is what happens when they punch back? And then there are reprisals. And then we are all in the shit.

Bill Maher
"Liberals must examine all the reasons why we keep losing elections"
https://www.facebook.com/Maher/videos/10154395089942297/
NSFW

[The Legendary Shark]

As opposed to violence as I am, throwing Trump, Charles and a single length of lead pipe into a greasy, rat-infested pit does hold a certain guilty appeal...

[NapalmKev]

As opposed to violence as I am, throwing Trump, Charles and a single length of lead pipe into a greasy, rat-infested pit does hold a certain guilty appeal...

All of those poor rats drowning in a sea of orange bile.
Seriously though, and without any actual evidence: I believe someone will have a good go at assassinating him.

Cheers

[The Legendary Shark]

Nah, only the good guys get assassinated, as the late, great Bill Hicks pointed out, "We always kill the guys that try to help us, always, and let the little demons run amok: John Lennon murdered, John Kennedy murdered, Martin Luther King murdered, Gandhi murdered, Jesus murdered.....Ronald Reagan....wounded."

[Jim_Campbell]

Problem with the punch a Nazi approach is what happens when they punch back? And then there are reprisals. And then we are all in the shit.

Liberal punches neo-Nazi: global debate; much hand-wringing.

Neo-Nazi shoots liberal: modest coverage in local press.

[Mikey]

See, yer actual Nazis don't get to have the benefits of a liberal society in my book as they're pretty much against it. Free speech - certainly, it either exists or it doesn't - but if one of them gets decked then maybe it's down to using that free speech to disseminate hatred and a dream of a resolutely non liberal social structure.

The old right wingers just love to play the victim. They'll appeal to leniency when they're getting decked either literally or figuratively, but they will absolutely never offer the same to anyone else. And they misunderstand that 'liberal' does not mean 'not angry'.