The Black Dog Thread

[The Legendary Shark]

The sense in carrying on?

I used to worry a lot. Every setback was a disaster, every frustration a calamity. It got to the point where every piece of mail I received had the potential to bring everything to ruin. There was no hope. The light at the end of the tunnel was probably a train coming. All I saw ahead of me was doom piled upon doom.

So I did the only logical thing and had a heart attack.

Recovering in the cardio ward, I noticed two types of people. Type One people were all, "Oh my God! Oh Jesus Christ! I've just had a heart attack! That's it! My life is over! I'm finished! Noooooooo!" Type Two people, on the other hand, be like, "Oh my God! Oh Jesus Christ! I've just had a heart attack! And I'm still alive! Woo-hoo!" I consciously decided to add myself to the Type Two camp and my life since has been noticeably more tolerable - enjoyable, even - despite (and arguably bolstered by) my subsequent Adventures in Law and losing my home and just about all my worldly possessions. Good, hard lessons all. And here I am, still standing and still laughing, thank God.

So, what's the sense in carrying on? I don't know, but it's definitely there. For me, it was shedding fear (not altogether, to be sure, but largely). For you? Again, I don't know - but you'll find it.

[Jade Falcon]

Well sorry if that sounded over dramatic, but I really am at the point I don't know what to do..

The UC team say that its possible to get an advance payment, but that puts you into debt right away.  Someone suggested that instead of going to the supermarket I get it home delivered, but I have to book about three days in advance, and there's a £6 delivery charge.

There's the woes of heating.  I'm at the moment sitting with a fleece jacket and a scarf on.  Whoever built these bloody flats obviously thought they would be perfect as iceboxes in the winter.  The time that I was working was meant to be a time of self improvement, a big thing....instead it was the start of a continuous downward spiral.

[Funt Solo]

Hi Jade - sorry to hear that you're cold! I was once living in Halls of Residence and because my mum's an emotion-vampire that struggles with acute jealousy, I had decided not to visit her that Christmas. I did, though, still have a demented sense of loyalty, and so had also refused an offer to spend Christmas with my dad - because I knew she'd hate that and make noises about it. So, I stayed in the Halls. You weren't supposed to, though, so they'd turned the heating off to save money. So I was wrapped up in all my clothes, breath steaming, watching shit on the tele and all alone with nobody to talk to. I'd told myself beforehand that it wouldn't be so bad - but it was fucking shit. So, I'm sorry to hear you're cold.

Not that you asked for any help - but I'm sorry as well that my empathy probably isn't any.

[Tjm86]

So, what's the sense in carrying on? I don't know, but it's definitely there. For me, it was shedding fear (not altogether, to be sure, but largely). For you? Again, I don't know - but you'll find it.

I get this.  At the moment I'm cratering again.  There's no real reason I can put my finger on behind it but about three times in the last month or so I've gotten quite aggressive with myself.  Last time my wife was threatening to call the police and have me sectioned.

When I get asked by docs about attempts one of the questions they ask is what stops me.  I can't really answer that except to say 'cowardice'.  Not really a sensible answer I know but then again not a particularly sensible situation so ...

Can't really explain why I keep pushing at this except to say that I do.  I feel like a failure a hell of a lot of the time but then I stop and take on board some of the things people point out; I'm still here and still fighting, failure isn't the ending it's sometimes made out to be, I've managed to pick myself up countless times after these 'failures' ... It's hard to explain why that eventually connects as well.

I mean, if you'd asked me a year or so ago, I would have said that I was completely washed up.  Now I've got a decent job that is starting to push me back in the right direction.  Leaving aside the current cratering and extreme self-destructiveness, things are improving.  If I can get past whatever this is, maybe I can get another foot up the ladder.

I don't know if there is a simple, magic answer.  I don't think there is.  I mean, I know for me this is going to be a lifelong battle.  There are going to be times like this when things are dark and dangerous but not always.  At least that's what I'm trying to tell myself right now.  As Sharkey says, sometimes you just make a choice to join Group 2 for some reason that escapes definition.

[Jade Falcon]

Somethings not right.  I worked a month before being paid, I estimate I still should have had a month's pay or partial pay due.  They say there more deductions than earnings therefore I'm due nothing.  Not to mention I had about three weeks unused paid holiday.

Something isn't right, I think a visit to Citizens Advice might be in order

[Jade Falcon]

Well even further down the last couple of days.  As everyone knows, gone are the days there was a jobcentre in most towns.  I had to travel to the local one about 45 minutes bus ride away.  First off the bus was late but a fair bit.  It was bitterly cold despite wearing a T-shirt, Jumper, fleece, scarf, gloves and a heavy winter jacket.  Going to the jobcentre I was constantly out of breath and had a rather worrying chest pain.  Finishing there I decided to pick up a small shopping and then get the bus home.  The blasted bus service was all over the place.  After over an hour of standing in the bitter cold I was ready to collapse, literally.  When I got home I just wanted to curl up and lie down.  So I went to bed, fully clothed and with a hot water bottle and still had shivering all night.

Add to that, recently I had a phone damaged from Tesco and got a replacement.  Due to various things I incurred a £125 charge on it.  This was to be refunded when the damaged unit was refunded, all fair.  So yesterday I thought I had at least a small margin.  The council has taken £110 council tax, for the second time since putting in for UC.  Due to the lack of speed of bureacracy, i just dont know how I can survive.  Christmas is always bad because of the anniversary of my mum taking ill and dying, but this year is going to be worse.

[The Legendary Shark]

Get to the doctor's, Jade, get that breathlessness and chest pain checked out.

Do it Now.

[Jade Falcon]

Now I've got my ex-work at me claiming they overpaid me.  Which considering I still had holiday entitlement I doubt.  They said I owe them £24 and that If I don't pay they'll take it to a 'collection agency that will add charges'

This is a company that claimed to be in the top five great places to work and continually bombarded you with messages full of corporate speak bullshit about how wonderful they were.

[Funt Solo]

On the face of it that sounds like some bullshit (from your ex-employers). I suppose if it was happening to me I'd be doing two things - one is checking my facts and the other is contacting the Citizen's Advice Bureau (if that's still a thing). Probably the CAB would also want to know the facts, which is why that's first in the list.

When I worked in hotels, I'd often be in situations where they were underpaying me and I had to have my data all straight before I confronted them because otherwise they'd just bullshit me.

(24 quid is such a small amount for a company of nearly any size - I'm surprised that they're even bringing it up, to be honest. )

[The Legendary Shark]

Tell your ex-work that you charge £25 for each letter of theirs you have to deal with (admin costs). They therefore owe you £1.

[Tjm86]

Now I've got my ex-work at me claiming they overpaid me.  Which considering I still had holiday entitlement I doubt.  They said I owe them £24 and that If I don't pay they'll take it to a 'collection agency that will add charges'

Well if nothing else, ask them to provide proof of the debt, how it is calculated and what it is for.  Also ask them for details of the holidays you took and your total entitlement.  Any outstanding entitlement should have been paid with your final salary so if it isn't there, they are in debt, not you.

TBH I had something similar when I left the RAF.  The mattress I was issued was in an almighty state but the block corporal didn't record that so they tried to charge me for it.  I argued with them, refused to pay and nothing ever came of it.

The amount they would have to pay a collection agency far outstrips the debt in question so I'm a little baffled that they are wasting their time and money.  Then again, as you say, this is a company that invokes double speak to pretend to be a quality employer (stop that laughing at the back!)

[Hawkmumbler]

Tell your ex-work that you charge £25 for each letter of theirs you have to deal with (admin costs). They therefore owe you £1.

As funny as this is, and if not intended as a joke I'm sure Sharks intentions are earnest, I'd discourage Jade from taking such action. Declaring you charge an admin fee could be taken as grounds for operating a for-profit business and could leave him open to litigation, a stress I'm sure he could do without.

TJM and Funt offer salient advise here, Jade. Demand receipts proving the debt they allege, take it to CAB (goodness knows they pulled my fat out the the fryer enough times) and propose the question already raised here, for the sake of £24 is the cost of raising a debt collector really worth it? It's a valid question, and often times pointing out the dubious qualities of the fallacy they're leaning on is enough to get most to back off.

Are you part of a union, Jade? You might not be in the right place to consider it at the moment, materially or emotionally, but it's absolutely something to consider for the future.

[Barrington Boots]

Just to echo what Hawk says above (and the posters he is recommending)

Many years ago I headed up a complaints team for a national electricity supplier and we sent a guy a threatening baliffs-are-coming type letter for an outstanding debt of 28p. He sent us a letter back with 2p sellotaped to it proposing to pay by monthly installments. We cancelled the debt.

It's a funny little story but the real takeaway is that the chase letter was part of an automated process, and we were instructed to write off any debt below a certain level if challenged because it just wasn't worth our time pursuing it. For £24 I'd be very surprised if they go after you in way they're stating Jade.
I would also recommend as a first step to check in with CAB and then write to your ex-employer asking for receipts and evidence. Keep the tone polite and professional, and keep a copy of the letter (email as well, if possible). I'm sure some of us here can help out with that should you need it.

[The Legendary Shark]

What Barry said is the best opening - request proof of the alleged debt (and don't just accept claims presented in a letter). Don't say anything like, "I'm not paying this," because it acknowledges the existence of the alleged debt. All you should do at this stage is request proof. Then, if they start giving you the runaround, give them notice that unless they provide sufficient proof then you'll have to charge them £25 per letter (your time is precious and you need to spend it looking for employment and not engaging with dubious claims and spending money on stamps, type of thing). If they respond after this, they're agreeing to your terms for contact. (The idea is not to get paid but to set up a counter-claim if this ever goes to court - and you must be reasonably sure that you're in the right, of course, before letting it get so far.) For £24 though, I very much doubt they'll pursue it with much vigour. You only have to exchange a few letters before their bean-counters step in, at which point they'll either give up or risk doubling down - and you setting up an obvious counter-claim from the start should factor into their decision.

Although none of what I've written here should be construed as actual legal advice, it is a suggestion for a possible strategy. You'll have to read up a bit on contract law and debt, or instruct a solicitor, if you want to go this way. All I can say is that I've had some success in the past with this approach. It bears repeating - don't refuse to pay. If they can prove to your satisfaction that you do owe this money and are obliged to pay, then you must agree to settle the alleged debt right from the start (again, setting up your reasonable and honourable approach from the beginning should this ever get anywhere near a court, which I doubt it will) provided they can prove to your satisfaction that the alleged debt was actually incurred in the first place. Keep the ball in their court for as long as you can.

Most probably, I think, they'll sell the debt with a bundle of others to a "debt collection agency," which is fine. They'll run in hard to start with but will probably soon give up over such a trifling amount. It's generally just a battle of nerves with these guys. 

Me taking up these scary battles in the past was a big factor in overcoming the supremacy of my personal Black Dog. Small victories mean a lot. (But keep £24 to one side, though, just in case...)

[Jade Falcon]

Christmas...bah humbug.  This has been an even worse time than usual.  I just don't feel up to going on.  I had a fit the other night which always makes me feel bad.  The house is freezing and I got a minor scare when my power company tried to claim that I had used nearly £400 of heating in a month, turns out THAT was an error on their part, it was £31, not much difference.