General Chat > Off Topic

It's a bit warm/ wet/ cold outside

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sheridan:

--- Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 24 July, 2019, 09:35:09 AM ---The real issue for me is that the silent majority are too self-centred and short-termist. I am not sure I care (I know I should, I really do) about the extinction of beetles in Peru. And I think I am a fair-minded guy.

--- End quote ---

Yes, you should - even if you don't care about the hypothetical beetle itself, until a species dies out we don't really know what else was relying on it (even then we might not find out - the dependant species just has difficulties which we can't explain).


* Domino effects and secondary extinctions
* The marine version
* On exctinction leads to another... and another

Colin YNWA:

--- Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 24 July, 2019, 11:46:24 AM ---
I don't think climate change can be stopped - the climate has been changing for billions of years and will continue to do so for billions more. The best we can do is mitigate by cutting down on pollution, building sea defences, building new settlements or planting forests where the glaciers used to be, building new fresh water reservoirs (in abandoned coal mines etc?) and such things.

Carbon tax is not the answer, or at least only a miniscule part of the answer. We have to adapt to the planet because we can't adapt the planet to us. Climate change is not a disaster, it's an opportunity.

--- End quote ---

I rarely engage with this type of thing here BUT please for the love of all, don't confuse natural changes in climate that happen over long periods of time and the current human induced climate change that we are all responsible for creating and therefore solving.

They are entirely different things and to say otherwise is to side with climate denies such as Trump who look for any reason to spit their nonsense.

There is agreement in the scientific community

Weather is not the same as climate

The significent increase in overall temperature we are seeing globally in the last couple of hundred years (but most significently in the last 50) is due to human actions

IndigoPrime:
There’s a great graph online that shows climate shifts since the era before the dinosaurs. Natural changes usually occur over many thousands of years. The spike humans have created is unprecedented and essentially a vertical line.

Dark Jimbo:

--- Quote from: Colin YNWA on 24 July, 2019, 01:18:22 PM ---
--- Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 24 July, 2019, 11:46:24 AM ---I don't think climate change can be stopped - the climate has been changing for billions of years and will continue to do so for billions more.

--- End quote ---

I rarely engage with this type of thing here BUT please for the love of all, don't confuse natural changes in climate that happen over long periods of time and the current human induced climate change that we are all responsible for creating and therefore solving.

--- End quote ---

Yeah, that is probably the most unhelpful remark that can be made about climate change, Shark.

TordelBack:

--- Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 24 July, 2019, 01:31:55 PM ---
--- Quote from: Colin YNWA on 24 July, 2019, 01:18:22 PM ---
--- Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 24 July, 2019, 11:46:24 AM ---I don't think climate change can be stopped - the climate has been changing for billions of years and will continue to do so for billions more.

--- End quote ---

I rarely engage with this type of thing here BUT please for the love of all, don't confuse natural changes in climate that happen over long periods of time and the current human induced climate change that we are all responsible for creating and therefore solving.

--- End quote ---

Yeah, that is probably the most unhelpful remark that can be made about climate change, Shark.

--- End quote ---

Agreed, it's a literally fatal line of thinking, although note that Sharky goes on to say:


--- Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 24 July, 2019, 11:46:24 AM ---Carbon tax is not the answer, or at least only a miniscule part of the answer. We have to adapt to the planet because we can't adapt the planet to us.

--- End quote ---

This I can partly get behind. Carbon tax can be a part of the answer in two senses: it is a crude economic stick aimed at modifying behaviour by using a single simple metric, and that is a welcome and often effective approach; its revenues can be used to part-fund critical climate projects. But the Shark is entirely correct, it's a very small part of what's needed, and dangerously it overwhelmingly affects the poorer sections of the West, while making the high-consumption perks of wealth even more exclusive and desirable. (Imagine the joy of the rich to discover foreign travel has been returned to them and them alone!) This can and does reduce widespread support for current measures, gives opportunity to anti-fact demagogues, and creates an atmosphere that bodes ill for the reception of the savage economic pain that will be required very soon.

In the long term I think the 'stick' part of tackling climate change is going to have to factor in income and net worth: a basic level of carbon credits, with a increase in costs based on a  progressive proportion of real wealth, instead of a flat rate.

But I'd far rather see creative solutions that take account of what we can do individually and collectively, in the way of a radical change to lifestyle, economy, international aid and domestic land-use, rather than just what we have to pay.


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