The Political Thread

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

...Putin... told George W Bush as far back as 2008 that he did not believe Ukraine to be a real country.

Unfortunately for Putin, it would appear the Ukrainians zealously believe it is.

... Contested as genocide, there is certainly evidence to suggest that the famine was a deliberate act on the part of the [foreign] regime.  Hence the strength of feeling about [foreign] rule.

Begorrah, sure'n doesn't that sound quare familiar

[Funt Solo]

Part of the reason for the expansion of the USSR at the end of WWII, and then the Cold War that followed, was that Russia got brutalized by Nazi Germany to a much larger extent than the other allies. 20-27 million deaths, compared with the USA's less than half a million. Even as percentage of population, it's 13.7% to 0.32%. (UK was 0.94%, Germany was about 8.5%, China was 3.38%.)

The death toll on the Eastern Front definitely puts much of what happened elsewhere in the shade.  What also needs to be remembered though is the number of deaths in the inter-war period that resulted from the Revolution, Civil War, purges, famines and other activities.  Wholesale deportations, mass incarceration, judicial abuses ... Estimates vary quite widely.  [for an interesting literary account, Solzhenitsyn's "A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich" is well worth a read.  It is also quite a short piece, compared to his three volume "Gulag Archipeligo".]

From the point of view of Ukraine, the Holodomor or Terror Famine is a major issue.  Contested as genocide, there is certainly evidence to suggest that the famine was a deliberate act on the part of the Soviet regime.  Hence the strength of feeling about Russian rule.

Indeed. I'm not going to be suggesting that the Soviet empire was some kind of paradise prior to Barbarossa, or post-'45. Just that, on a geopolitical level, they felt like a buffer zone of occupied countries was a good way forward in terms of protecting their central government. That Putin's moves are calculated, rather then whimsical. (Economically - I suppose it's a lot less difficult to sell gas if you don't have to negotiate.)

My inter-war history is pretty weak, I must say.

[Dandontdare]

Some bugger has signed up my personal and work e-mail addresses to receive every bloody one of FoxNews' alerts and newsletters. Got inboxes full of that drivel, and they have to be unsubscribed individually.

[Tjm86]

Indeed. I'm not going to be suggesting that the Soviet empire was some kind of paradise prior to Barbarossa, or post-'45. Just that, on a geopolitical level, they felt like a buffer zone of occupied countries was a good way forward in terms of protecting their central government.

I have to confess to a lasting interest in Russian history from studying the revolution for O Level history.  The pre-revolution period is fascinating enough but Soviet era history is something else again.  My favourite poet is also one that straddles these periods, Anna Akhmatova.  Along with Pasternak, Mandelstam and Gumilev she chronicled those years in an amazing way.  Her most famous piece, Requiem, details her experiences waiting outside Lefortovo prison to visit her son.  Poem Without a Hero though is an absolutely outstanding epic poem.  She weaves a narrative across the span of the 20th Century including all the individuals and events she encountered.

As for the politics of the Eastern bloc post WW2, I would agree that a determination not to allow another incursion as they experienced during the Great Patriotic War was a significant factor in the Soviet strategy.  This was an era that Putin was born and raised in, with Soviet Russia holding sway over international affairs and considered a Superpower.

Since the Fall of Communism in the 90's though, Russian influence has become significantly diminished.  Think of how often we've heard of America being the 'only superpower.'  Many of the oligarchs made their fortunes during this period by dint of being in the right place at the right time, having the right sorts of political connections or in many cases outright criminality.  The lawlessness of this period has been well documented.

Putin's thinking does appear to be redolent of old Soviet-era nationalistic attitudes.  Seeking to restore Russian 'glory', exert influence on the world stage and re-establish Soviet era borders.  Although Finland and Sweden have been specifically mentioned recently, it is highly unlikely that the Baltic states of Latvia and Lithuania will be ignored.  The fact that they are NATO members (IIRC) might offer some protection but that may well depend on how things go in Ukraine.

[milstar]

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/gen-z-worried-draft-war-russia-ukraine/

Lmao. Aren't people aware that wars are being fought from your cozy chair xD?

As for Putin, I don't think he seeks to re-establish another USSR, it sounds more like tries to renew imperialist Russia. First by pushing back NATO.

[Funt Solo]

This war I have mostly been enjoying "Russian warship - go fuck yourself!"

[CalHab]

I'll defer to those with more knowledge of Russian history, but Putin is surely just the latest in a long line of despotic autocrats, whether they were Tsars, Party Leaders or Presidents. I imagine it all looks the same from the perspective of an ordinary person in Moscow or Vladivostok.

[milstar]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/698419/German-family-flees-to-Russia-claim-asylum-Griesbach

[IndigoPrime]

Even for the Express, that's quite the story. Or non-story, I guess.

"a lack of democracy"

So they fled to Russia, a country known for its amazing democracy! There must be something else to this story, surely?

"and forced immunisation"

Ah. There it is.

[Funt Solo]

Years ago, when I started teaching in the US, I was required to show proof of my MMR vaccination status, so I did.

At no point during that process did I think either a) it's all made up by shady governments in order to control me using nanobots or b) I should move to Russia.

I'm not sure which thought would be more insane, there.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Years ago, when I started teaching in the US, I was required to show proof of my MMR vaccination status, so I did.

At no point during that process did I think either a) it's all made up by shady governments in order to control me using nanobots or b) I should move to Russia.

I'm not sure which thought would be more insane, there.

I would say option b).

Taking option b) might get you neurotoxined for thinking option a).

[Funt Solo]

Probably I have been neurotoxined (and nanoprobed*) and actually do live in Russia.





*I should be so lucky.

[milstar]

Even for the Express, that's quite the story. Or non-story, I guess.

"a lack of democracy"

So they fled to Russia, a country known for its amazing democracy! There must be something else to this story, surely?

"and forced immunisation"

Ah. There it is.

Well, let's say that I believe they moved to Russia. Why..? Only express and daily mail know. But we live in era of disinformation and our media is trash anyway, so...

"and forced immunisation"

Ah. There it is.

"They are inviting all the immigrants over so they can stir up trouble in the country and start the war the government wants."

There, I fixed it for ya.

[paddykafka]

Another timely gem from the inimitable Mr Turner.

https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.4815402.1646154517!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg

[Dark Jimbo]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/698419/German-family-flees-to-Russia-claim-asylum-Griesbach

The Griesbachs claim the agreement between Russia and Germany to stop fighting in 1918 was not a true peace agreement, and therefore the countries are still at war.

Mr Griesbach argues Russia is therefore duty bound to protect them.

Wow! Just... wow.