The Political Thread

[Jim_Campbell]

How does New Zealand manage to do it?

Well, it doesn't have a significantly over-valued currency and is about to throw away the two key factors that are propping it up without so much as clue as to how to mitigate the effects, for a start.

[Theblazeuk]

The EU isn't an Authoritarian Superstate.

[IndigoPrime]

There are myriad positions between these two extremes.

Being in the EEA would be one such position, but May and co. have thrown that option away. When even the Australians are saying "Hey, Ireland's going to be a great bridge to the EU! UK? Pfft", you know the UK's in serious trouble.

[JayzusB.Christ]

No country exists in a vacuum but neither does any country need to be part of an authoritarian superstate. There are myriad positions between these two extremes.

I would argue that Ireland exists comfortably* within one of these in-between positions.  I don't remember ever being forced to do anything I didn't agree with because of EU directives - as theblazeuk points out, the EU is not an authoritarian superstate.

*EDIT - Though slightly less comfortably now that Brexit is destabilising our position.

[GordonR]

There's not a huge amount to be gained from economic comparisons between the UK and New Zealand.  New Zealand is actually larger than the UK, but has a population of less than Scotland's.  Its chief exports are - unsurprisingly, with that abundance of unpopulated land - agricultural, and it's part of the Pacific Rim economy.

The relevant part for any comparision is - as already noted by someone else - that its most important trading partner is its closest neighbour Australia, with which it maintains close economic, political and cultural ties.

You know, like the ones we're going to piss down the drain with our largest and closest trading partner.

[The Legendary Shark]

The EU isn't an Authoritarian Superstate.

Yet...

[TordelBack]

The EU isn't an Authoritarian Superstate.

Yet...

If that's the argument then maybe the time to quit would have been if it becomes one, not before, when you have democratic representation there and can influence its direction. 

Now you're just going to be the minor neighbour of 'an authoritarian superstate' that you have no representation in.

[The Legendary Shark]

Actually...

Authoritarian. (Favouring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.)

Superstate. (A large and powerful state formed from a federation or union of nations.)

So, I was wrong - the EU isn't an authoritarian superstate yet, it's an authoritarian superstate now.

[IndigoPrime]

But under your thinking, wouldn't the UK also be an authoritarian superstate?

[The Legendary Shark]

No - just an authoritarian state, or an authoritarian union.

[sheridan]

I would argue that Ireland exists comfortably* within one of these in-between positions.  I don't remember ever being forced to do anything I didn't agree with because of EU directives - as theblazeuk points out, the EU is not an authoritarian superstate.

I don't remember the UK being forced to do anything I didn't agree with because of EU directives either, apart from all those made-up stories that have featured in the red tops for as long as I can remember.  I also remember Farage complaining about fish quotas even though he was on the board responsible for setting them just so he could continue to complain.

[Jim_Campbell]

I also remember Farage complaining about fish quotas even though he was on the board responsible for setting them just so he could continue to complain.

The quotas are (broadly) sensible measures to counter depletion of the fish stocks. The reason British fisherman can't land those fish has nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with the UK government privatising the agency that assigns fishing rights, which then immediately flogged them off to the highest bidder. The big trawler/factory fleets handily outbid the smaller UK operations.

Nothing to do with the EU, and if UK fishermen are expecting their lot to improve post-Brexit, they're in for a rude awakening.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Actually...

Authoritarian. (Favouring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.)

Which personal freedoms exactly are denied by EU membership and will be restored by leaving?

[TordelBack]

Actually...

Authoritarian. (Favouring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.)

Which personal freedoms exactly are denied by EU membership and will be restored by leaving?

Well if you're keen on polluting rivers, building on protected habitats, using hazardous chemicals without restriction, poducing substandard goods, abusing workers and dictating where your citizens can live and work, the EU can definitely cramp your style.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Fascists.