The Political Thread

[sheridan]

I'm not saying the guy was right, but the media were selective about what they reported and when during the referendum.

There's world of difference between selective reporting and "hard Brexit is the fault of Remain voters for not accepting a moderate version of Leave",

I don't recall there being a moderate leave option on the ballot paper - mine only had 'stay' or 'go' (paraphrasing).

[Professor Bear]

To be fair, most people think the LibDems will say anything but then do fuck all about it.

Probably, although I find it odd so many have a bee in their bonnet about that party when others are hardly covering themselves in glory.

I suspect you've answered your own question there - "But Labour" is the beginning and end of Farron's recruitment strategy, and pretty much the entirety of the average LibDem supporter's political vocabulary.
For me, it's more the absence of "I don't hate gay people" coming out of Tim Farron's mouth that's a problem, as it's 2017 and even Nigel Farage had an openly gay man managing his EU campaign.

And yes, also Student Fees.  Labour - rightly - got a stuffing from the youth vote for putting higher education beyond the reach of most low-income families and they're still paying for it 20 years later, I don't see why the LibDems should get a pass on breaking a tentpole manifesto promise beyond the "But Labour" caveat.

[IndigoPrime]

I don't recall there being a moderate leave option on the ballot paper - mine only had 'stay' or 'go' (paraphrasing).

Well, quite. The argument appears to be that all Remain people should have rebranded themselves as 'sort of Remain' or something. I dunno. It just feels like 'liberal' Leave finally realised they've been played and won't get what they wanted either. (And also that they might have got much of what they wanted in a reformed EU.)

"But Labour" is the beginning and end of Farron's recruitment strategy, and pretty much the entirety of the average LibDem supporter's political vocabulary.

Well, we can back and forth on this all week, but the Liberal Democrat manifesto in 2015 was broadly very good. Yes, the party clearly attempts to grab waverers from the Tories and Labour, and Farron's a bit shit, but I've time for the party as a whole, despite some of the fuck-ups they made while in government. (Notably, people don't seem to address the relative successes they had, nor that they very obvious did blunt a fairly extreme Tory government.(

And yes, also Student Fees.  Labour - rightly - got a stuffing from the youth vote for putting higher education beyond the reach of most low-income families and they're still paying for it 20 years later, I don't see why the LibDems should get a pass on breaking a tentpole manifesto promise beyond the "But Labour" caveat.

I'm not saying they should. I'm saying it's ludicrous to forever write off a political party entirely for breaking a manifesto pledge when they entered government as a junior partner. To my mind, it's more that people are pissed off at this particular thing, too. In which case, probably no-one should ever vote Labour again after the Iraq fiasco. (Which, for the record, I don't believe either.)

Even if the Lib Dems are taking advantage of this situation, it's actually quite nice to have one of the main four English parties giving a flying crap about the EU. By contrast, Labour folds at every available opportunity while Corbyn bangs on about the real right starting, or holding the government to account. (Last PMQs was an embarrassment on that scale. It's like he doesn't even know what he's doing.) Also, Labour's position now screws any remote chance of the kind of electoral pact that might just have stopped the Tories securing a massive majority in 2020. It probably wouldn't have happened anyway, but there was at least a slim possibility of cooperation. No chance now (except possibly – although I think it unlikely – between the English Greens and the Lib Dems).

[Professor Bear]

In my day, "But Labour" was slang for what happens to people when they get sex trafficked, not a political argument.

[M.I.K.]

Sounds more like what happens at the end of a long bout of constipation to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJS6JtPpWCM

[Steve Green]

Seen on twitter.

"Does Jeremy Corbyn think he is a time-traveller from the future who is allowed to observe us but not interfere with history? #primedirective"

[TordelBack]

In my day, "But Labour" was slang for what happens to people when they get sex trafficked, not a political argument.

My colleagues wish to know why I'm shuddering with inadequately suppressed guffaws.

[Professor Bear]

Seen on twitter.

"Does Jeremy Corbyn think he is a time-traveller from the future who is allowed to observe us but not interfere with history? #primedirective"

What an idiotic thing to say.  The Prime Directive and Temporal Prime Directive are entirely different things.

[Modern Panther]

BREAKING NEWS
In a shocking turn of events, Brussels has told the British people that the Prime Minister is not allowed to enact Article 50, as she has no mandate to do so and it would cause too much fuss!  For how long will the British People put up with their sovereignty being denied by us bureaucrats we did not vote for!

Now is not the time!

[IndigoPrime]

On the 'Plan for Britain' website, Theresa May states:

"Last summer's vote was not just an instruction to leave the EU.It was an instruction to change the way our whole country works, and the people for whom it works, forever."

Wow. And she says Sturgeon has no mandate...

[Professor Bear]

Makes no sense to not have another Indy referendum: by 2019, Britain will be an independent economic powerhouse just like the Leavers have been saying all along, and Scots won't want to leave that.

[Tjm86]

Perhaps the most amusing aspect of Mrs May's plaintiffs pleading is that

"It would be unfair to the people of Scotland that they would be being asked to make a crucial decision without the information they need to make that decision."
The prime minister also said the country should be "working together, not pulling apart".  BBC news

So as a member a government that was content to do precisely that to the whole of the UK she feels she is now in a position to level the same criticisms against the SNP?  Sorry pot, what colour is that kettle over there?

Not really been a good week for her.  Sturgeon's belligerence on top of Hammond's balls up and this is the light weight stuff.  This is the woman entrusted with negotiating a strong and effective treaty with the EU after an exit treaty the meets the conflicting and multiple demands of the Brexit coalition.  The EU negotiating team must be watching this with unalloyed glee.  She couldn't even negotiate a bedtime story with a two year old.

[Old Tankie]

She managed to negotiate the article 50 bill through both Houses of Parliament without amendment, great job prime minister, now let's get this show on the road.

[Jim_Campbell]

She managed to negotiate the article 50 bill through both Houses of Parliament without amendment, great job prime minister, now let's get this show on the road.

The show that David Davis admits is going to turn into the worst case scenario that the Leave campaign promised us would never happen? That show?

[Old Tankie]

What, that bloke who you say hasn't got a clue.