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Was inferno any good?

Started by djm12, 19 May, 2007, 12:44:43 PM

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Tiplodocus

Kinky John,

welcome to the board.  

Pat's quote sounds quite clever but I feel you may have misapplied it here.

I'm not sure where you quite got the impression that people were convincing themselves that "what you read is real".  I can't see any of that above.  

I thought I read people complaining about things that were stupid, illogical and contradictory to the established laws of the story setting (and in many cases, human biology and the laws of physics).

For example I thought most people weren't too concerned about whether a nose cap would work on Titan - just whether or not it contradicted a previously iconic bit of design work. Admittedly, this may be the artist at fault rather than the writer.

As you'll find out if you stick around, most people here are a friendly bunch who have enjoyed reading 2000ad for a longtime.  

And we continue to read and, unlike "fans", are happy to criticise it when it makes the occassional mis-step.  

Surely that marks them out as adult comic readers.

(Me, I'm a big wean myself).
Be excellent to each other. And party on!

Lobo Baggins

I can hardly believe that (presumably) adults are arguing over what type of face modification is acceptable for a stay on Titan.

I don't think anyone was - the 'new' nose actually gets explained in the plot, but I honestly believe that the old look (originally from a Pat Mills scripted story, no less) was a lot more impressive.

and less bothered about whether it's any good.

Errr, have I missed something?  This whole thread is about whether Inferno was any good - to which the general concensus is 'no, apart from the art and some of the design'.

Taste is a subjective thing, it is NOT set in stone.

If you want to offer an opinion, go ahead.  I seriously doubt that you'll change anyone else's opinion, though.  What did you think of Inferno?  Please bear in mind that other peoples' opinions may differ from your own.

Try enjoying 2000ad instead of living it.

I found very little to enjoy in Inferno or Purgatory.
The wages of sin are death, but the hours are good and the perks are fantastic.

JamesC

Inferno and Purgatory are both utter, utter shit.
I could tell when I read it that the writers didn't give a shit about the characters or the readers for that matter.
Morrison and Miller have both admitted as much since.
When I read a story I want to care about the characters or have at least some emotional involvement. If the writer has neither of these things it's not likely the reader will.

As others have said, the only saving grace is the art, but since Carlos has worked on so many excellent stories I think I'll stick to getting my art kicks from those pages.



    "I have to say that most of you seem to be comic 'fans' more interested in convincing yourselves that what you read is real and less bothered about whether it's any good."

What a peculiar statement!
Most fiction is about the suspension of disbelief. If the writer is any good HE should be convincing ME that the story is 'real'; or at least that it adheres to it's own sense of reality and makes sense internally.  

Richard

I think the reduced breathing masks were necessary, becuase if everyon ehad been wearing the originals it would have been impossible to tell everyone apart, unless they all had name badges on or something, and that would be a bit annoying (I know judges' helmets conceal their faces, but artists usually depict judges inexplicably not wearing them most of the time, even when riding powerful motorbikes at very high speeds). It would be pretty tedious for Carlos to draw as well.

Apart from that I agree with all the criticism above. If it got reprinted and published in America that would be pretty embarassing and would utterly misinform new readers as to what a Dredd story can be like.

I enjoyed it at the time though, because I hadn't read much else and so didn't know any better.

dweezil2

Well I've re-read recently and I still enjoyed it-and  personally I couldn't give a shit if anyone else enjoyed it or not-it was my 85p spent at the time(or whatever) and I'll enjoy what the fuck I like.
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Tweak72

Welcome kinky john
I'm sure thereâ??s some kind of Irony lurking here but itâ??s too early to look for it
:)
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Roger Godpleton

Is it just me or did Millar seem to delight in devising violent deaths for his female characters?

Obviously senseless violence is his MO all the time, but here it seemed to really stick out, especially when that Judge gets torn apart by the Lawmasters.
He's only trying to be what following how his dreams make you wanna be, man!

Richard


Steve Green

Was Judge Janus killed off post the Morrison/Millar era, or is she still knocking about?

- Steve

Richard

She's still around, but we haven't seen her in about 8 or 9 years.

Radbacker

she was like, in a story like, that involved like Time travel and stuff and like I dont think we've seen her like since.  (I did enjoy the story about the Time bubble and the future Judges, Fastus I think it was called).

CU Radbacker

Steve Green

Thanks,

I thought Wagner or Rennie might have killed her off (fingers crossed anyway)

- Steve

jamesedwards

Quote from: TordelBack on 20 May, 2007, 02:46:12 PM
Actually, I think <i>Purgatory</i> is okay - I can never figure out how most of those prisoners could <i>ever</i> have been MC Judges (the fat Texan [what, he got fat on Titan?], the hippy etc.), and it's best enjoyed as a max-security prison romp rather  than a Dreddverse story, but it had a psychotic energy and plenty over-the-top violence to go along with some of the Squirrel's best-ever design work (note similarity of helmets to Origins retro-judges). 

<i>Inferno</i> on the other hand, despite being blessed by equally gorgeous art and some passable one-liners, committed the ultimate sin:  it was boring.  Rilly boring.  It managed to be grotesquely repetitive in just a handful of pages, there was literally <b>no</b> plot (Dredd gets sick, Dredd runs away, Dredd comes back, the End), there was no thought given to the established MC-1 setting (what with its laser-defense system and <i>eastern</i> seaboard and <i>west<i> wall) and the supporting characters were sub-Jar-Jar.  Like totally. 

I hated it then, and I hate it still.  I'm glad it never gets even a hint of a mention in Wagner/Rennie Dredds, even where Dredd's and MC-1's history or Titan are being explicitly discussed.

I was 9 at the time - I think Morrison's on record that he wanted to make 2000ad's summer offensive the best kiddie's magazine ever - and it really did a number on me. The art's lovely and utterly brutal and it's stupid as a stylistic choice. I couldn't bring myself to read the last four issues for a few years because it was so shockingly violent to me.

There's a couple of ways to look at Dredd - the intelligent way always seems to end up sympathing with him and Justice Department a bit in the end, he's often portrayed as a stern but wise parental figure and he's flawlessly competent and noble, he even comes out of Tale Of The Dead Man as a really good guy when really he's an indoctrinated authoritarian slave. The second-person narration is always Dredd, the guy who learns the lesson is always Dredd. He's given redeeming qualities he really doesn't deserve, and he's never shown to be as pathetic as someone grown and owned by the state should be. It's readable but flawed.

The willfully stupid way is fun because it presents an antithesis to that and Dredd can look dumb and say stupid, dumb things but it can't really be done for more than 8-12 weeks at a time before the novelty does your head in. Which is why the Garth Ennis/Millar years are so bloody bad. I did like Crusade, Inferno and Helter Skelter though, there's a very visceral quality to them that's hard to find elsewhere.

Purgatory has a guy getting dropped in lava after recieving some kind of horrible spinal injury from a lazer chainsaw and that doesn't kill him (he actually gets up, gets a gun and goes for Grice)... so they use a flamethrower! It's the stupidest thing ever! Mark! Millar!

Thinking about what I just wrote I should love Alan Grant's Dredd but I can't stand it, which is more an indictment of Grant's level of subtlety than anything.

Anyway, rambling over but I just talked myself into a pre-order: http://www.amazon.com/Judge-Dredd-Inferno-Grant-Morrison/dp/1781080712

Large48

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Bad Andy

Just recently dug out some old progs that happened to contain Purgatory and Inferno.

It does NOT benefit from reading all at once. It's a load of repetitive crap. Serialised weekly, I could see how there was some high octane thrills. But not many. It's basically one gruesome death after another that somehow they managed to make boring.

Purgatory is slightly better though. Inferno just slips off the brain. I read it a month ago and already can only remember the judge getting pulled apart. For no understandable reason. 

These guys used to be judges yes? And smart? Rather than insane killers.