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Author Topic: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski  (Read 774 times)

CalHab

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #15 on: 13 October, 2021, 09:05:37 AM »
The Cebulski thing is so utterly insane. Senior people at Marvel must have known and that's why they won't deal with it, because it would bring their position into question. "Akira Yoshida" was getting paid and must have had a contract, after all.

I am not sure about that. Does 2000ad editors know who Ken Niemand is?

There's no way they couldn't know:

Marvel Payroll: Hi, just a quick question about this Akira Yoshida guy.
Marvel Editor: Um..... yeah.
Marvel Payroll: The form says to pay C.B. Cebulski, who is a member of staff and it gives his bank details.
Marvel Editor: Yeah.... C.B. says he'll sort it out.
Marvel Payroll: Oh, that's okay. I'll ignore the fraud and theft red flags. I see no issue in risking my livelihood on your say so.
« Last Edit: 13 October, 2021, 09:07:23 AM by CalHab »

Link Prime

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #16 on: 13 October, 2021, 09:43:54 AM »
I met Cebulski a few years back at a convention in Dublin - real nice guy.
Whole topic is a bit of a joke IMO, but I can only take those that seem genuinely upset about it at face value, and bemusedly nod at them.
Whatever your take, its difficult to disagree that yer man DeKnight just comes across as a sanctimonious ass*

2021 ain't over folks - we'll have Cavan Scott demanding that Matt Smith step down for 'Green-face' yet.
 

*I will always love him for that Spartacus series though.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #17 on: 13 October, 2021, 11:14:10 AM »
Whole topic is a bit of a joke IMO, but I can only take those that seem genuinely upset about it at face value, and bemusedly nod at them.

Not for the first time, I feel compelled to point out that if you fit with this forum's overwhelming demographic (middle aged white men) then other people may legitimately feel very differently about this — particularly aspiring BAME/BIPOC comic creators. Marvel was getting a lot of flak for the overwhelmingly white-male-ness of their creators at the time, and they gave work to "Akira Yoshida" rather than, y'know, an actual Asian writer.

If this had just been Cebulski trying to get around the rule that editorial staff couldn't also freelance for the company, that would be pretty bad. That he did so whilst adopting a pseudonym that clearly implied a different ethnicity to his own is, at the very least, incredibly tone deaf.

Quote
2021 ain't over folks - we'll have Cavan Scott demanding that Matt Smith step down for 'Green-face' yet.

This is really rather dismissive and very demeaning towards genuine hurt and anger some people feel over this issue. Comic creators who are POC feel, legitmately, under-represented in mainstream comics and, to many of them, this whole thing feels like a slap in the face.
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Link Prime

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #18 on: 13 October, 2021, 12:14:43 PM »
As demonstrated by some posts on this very thread, fictional writing is achievable for anyone - regardless of their skill set.

If you like the idea of going the pseudonym route, be mindful that some may take issue with the following:

Steelgrave - American
Grover - Punjabi
Skuter - Fictional
Ripley - English
Hamilton - Irish / Scottish
Powell - Welsh
Niemand - German / Scottish





Jim_Campbell

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #19 on: 13 October, 2021, 12:34:27 PM »
If you like the idea of going the pseudonym route, be mindful that some may take issue with the following

I don't know how much more clearly I can explain this specific situation to you. I have literally no idea what you think that list demonstrates in relation to the point under discussion, ie: a white man adopting a pseudonym that clearly implies a different ethnicity to his own at a time when the publisher he worked for was getting (deserved) flak for the under-representation of non-white creators in their books.

(And, FWIW, although Grover has a Punjabi origin, it also exists as an Anglicisation of Gruber.)
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M.I.K.

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #20 on: 13 October, 2021, 12:52:14 PM »
(And, FWIW, although Grover has a Punjabi origin, it also exists as an Anglicisation of Gruber.)

It also exists as an English surname.

M.I.K.

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #21 on: 13 October, 2021, 12:59:34 PM »
Also, I don't think Steelgrave is a real name either. It's certainly been "borrowed" from a fictional character.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #22 on: 13 October, 2021, 01:06:02 PM »
It also exists as an English surname.

I kind of thought that was implied by the word "Anglicisation"… :-)
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M.I.K.

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #23 on: 13 October, 2021, 01:27:48 PM »
Aye, but it also implies that it wasn't English to begin with.

There are at least three origins for the name, the English one being derived from "someone who lives near a grove" in much the same manner that mine is probably derived from "someone who lives near a church", (though flip knows which particular Northern European country that actually originates in).

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #24 on: 13 October, 2021, 01:30:47 PM »
There are at least three origins for the name

Well, you learn something new every day!
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CalHab

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #25 on: 13 October, 2021, 01:35:07 PM »
Anybody using the name Grover who isn't a furry blue monster is guilty of muppet-ural appropriation.

Link Prime

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #26 on: 13 October, 2021, 01:41:10 PM »
The crux of the matter is this; Cebulski used the pseudonym around 15 - 20 years ago when it's likely no-one gave a flying fuck.

We can assume his rise to EIC at Marvel had everything to do with the fact he was good at the job and a personable fellow, and little to do with the fact he wrote some Kitty Pryde comics that eleven people read in 2005.
If there was an issue with the Akira (I can't believe I'm typing this) Yoshida pseudonym, it was probably handled internally by Marvel HR / Management.

My opinion on this specific topic (and not all topics of perceived inequality I feel I must add, for obviousness sake) - informed, and unapologetically dismissive, is as valid as anyone's - including Steven S. DeKnight's
My ethnicity and background is completely irrelevant - as is Steven S. DeKnight's. Unless it's about which one of us you agree with.

As for the topic in hand - I'm a nobody, a Niemand if you will (sorry, just a sprinkle of much needed levity) shooting the shit on a bespoke comic forum on a quiet day in the office. My opinion matters as much as the brand of cholesterol reducing oat milk you're about to pour into your coffee.
DeKnight is a well regarded Hollywood writer / producer calling for his current boss to be dismissed via social media admonishment. Bit of a tosser if you ask me.

Link Prime

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #27 on: 13 October, 2021, 01:44:17 PM »
Anybody using the name Grover who isn't a furry blue monster is guilty of muppet-ural appropriation.

The gentrification of Sesame Street. How did it come to this?

Funt Solo

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #28 on: 13 October, 2021, 04:06:16 PM »
...15 - 20 years ago when it's likely no-one gave a flying fuck.

Data begs to differ*:



Anyone looking at sales might have considered there'd be some worth in adopting an Asian-sounding name in comics around that time. At the very least, we can assume that Cebulski gave a fuck.



* Although we don't really need a chart to tell us that cultural appropriation didn't suddenly spring into existence in the last decade. People be woke before the word. Word!
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Funt Solo

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Re: Steven S.DeKnight vs CB Cebulski
« Reply #29 on: 15 October, 2021, 02:08:13 AM »
DeKnight is a well regarded Hollywood writer / producer calling for his current boss to be dismissed via social media admonishment. Bit of a tosser if you ask me.

I was thinking about this and I agree that DeKnight calling for Cebulski to be fired is too strong. This would be where the concept of "cancel culture" needs something of a makeover and a rethink. When someone fucks up (at this scale), there should be room in society for them to make good their mistake, rather than just can them.

DeKnight could have suggested a charitable donation, or a scheme that promotes under-represented creatives into the industry. He could even have championed something like that himself, or approached Cebulski personally to discuss the issue.

DeKnight & Cebulski's a good name for a law firm, though.
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