2000 AD Online Forum

2000 AD => General => : death monkey 23 21 January, 2003, 04:37:44 PM

: i jus finished my subscription
: death monkey 23 21 January, 2003, 04:37:44 PM
So bye you lot.  Slaine is crap, caballistics crap, dredd vs aliens crap, sindex as always crap, and last but by no means least, that other one about the russian guy is in fact crap.

2kad is not an impressive publication in my opinion at the moment, all told.  I don't read it anymore so hopefully some of u will be satisfied with it at some point within the next seventeen yrs.  

good luck, and cheers to whatever scriptwriter nicked my oxymoron joke for that thing on tomorrow la scala.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Oddboy 21 January, 2003, 04:40:28 PM
No it's not crap.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Devons Daddy 21 January, 2003, 04:41:55 PM
did you cancel you subscription n the beano and bunty as well. thats what we need to know.?
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Wils 21 January, 2003, 04:51:13 PM
Submitted without comment
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Matt 21 January, 2003, 05:02:57 PM
How can anyone pour scorn on the latest offerings in 2000ad? Slaine is the best I have seen it since The Horned God, the artwork is astounding. Dredd vs Aliens is brilliant, as is Cabalistics Inc, Dante and I'm even enjoying the new Sin/Dex which I had started to loathe. Guess you've got no taste Deathmonkey!
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: moly 21 January, 2003, 06:30:26 PM
maybe your name isnt deathmonkey but spanking the monkey, you stick with 2000ad is crap and as soon as it gets better you cancel
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Queen Firey-Bou 21 January, 2003, 07:09:12 PM
IN fact its so crap you take the time to look up the web site & tell everyone else who are total fanboys that its crap.

Mmm i think I'll just go & look up the cosmo web site & tell them why i don't read it. & then theres the coronation st' chat room,. oh yes & the tory party site....blimey I'm gonna be really busy looking up all the worlds crap i might not have time to come here for the next millenia.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: IndigoPrime 21 January, 2003, 07:13:49 PM
Tooth at the moment isn't bad. The thing is, it's rarely amazing, and never has been, but it's often entertaining. People often expect too much of it.

In my opinion, the only really good strip at the moment is the ever-dependable Dante, although Cabalistic Inc shows a lot of promise.

Dredd sits in the middle ground. Aliens never look that scary in-print (bar Geiger's original paintings) and the story is a bit lacklustre for me.

Sin/Dex is awful, and it really is time for Abnett to retire the strip. Slaine's pretty naff, too. The art is muddy, as is the script, which is Slaine 'paint by numbers'--nothing new or original from Mills.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: The Monarch 21 January, 2003, 07:16:28 PM
begin auto reaction in 5 4 3 2 1

go away scojo

(hey it was worth a try even if this little git isn't he who must not be named)
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Trout 21 January, 2003, 07:24:38 PM
It's not that bad. You're just trying to wind us up and acting like a bit of a twat.

- Trout
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Jared Katooie 21 January, 2003, 08:55:50 PM
At the very least he's wrong about Dredd/Aliens...

And Caballistics...

And maybe Slaine...

But Russian guy is getting on my nerves and SinDex as always crap. I've had enough of their whole ironic precapatory thingy...

JK
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: The Enigmatic Dr X 21 January, 2003, 10:06:16 PM
Sin Dex has been big fat smelly pants since they went on the Who Wants to be a Millionaire type game show.

Out of character.
Out of ideas.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: John Caliber 21 January, 2003, 11:04:08 PM
If there was one thing... one thing I could change about the current 2000AD line-up, it would be..

.. to change those horrible, perfect ellipses used for lettering bubbles (as seen in Slaine) to something more 'handcrafted', like Tom Frame's bubbles (oo-err). Know what I mean? If I wanted perfect geometry I'd have become a mathematician.

- JC

Link: The DICE ORGY

: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: GordonR 21 January, 2003, 11:16:49 PM
Actually, I'd agree with you there, John.

Well-crafted good old-fashioned 'hand-done' lettering beats the computer-assisted stuff nine times out ten, anyday.

The really obvious computer-done stuff gives the balloons and the lettering  a slightly souless, clinical feel, which isn't what you want at all for most dialogue.

Three cheers for Tom Frame!

: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: frazer 21 January, 2003, 11:41:17 PM
agreed. and to be honest, making the balloons more organic ain't that hard, but i'd assume the letterers don't see the point. their primary task is to place balloons so they read well and don't obstruct the art.

one day i hope some artists (ahem...) get the chance to do the lettering themselves.

control freak? moi?

F
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: jock 21 January, 2003, 11:55:57 PM
Tom letters on a computer now too... and as much as I love his font the sound FX just ain't the same as they used to be- big massive BARROOOMM's and BUDDA BUDDA's literally drawn into the artwork. Fantastic!


Jock
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Matt Timson 22 January, 2003, 12:34:47 AM
Yeah- you can't beat a good old "BUDDA BUDDA BUDDA"...
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: critter 22 January, 2003, 04:04:37 AM

Spunds like you have issues Spanky. I think with thw volume of people who come here your opinion may be wrong. Sure I don't like everything I see in Tooth, Bison for example...Tales of Telguuth for another, and oh Most of Siku's work. Sure I know allot of people will disagree with me. But why take the time to look up the site, register. then post is you're getting away from it anyway.
But theres more in Tooth that I like than dislike.

Critter

Link: An Imaginary Tale

: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: paulvonscott 22 January, 2003, 05:07:12 AM
Well, right on for Death Monkey 23, saying what he thinks.  I'd rather hear what people who decide to quit 2000AD think than them just dissapear.  Basically for DeathMonkey there was nothing engaging about the comic, that's fair enough, lay off the lad.

I'm quite enjoying 2000AD, there are four stories which on average aren't bad at all.  Then again, there's nothing that really reaches new territory or makes me that excited, and engages my enthusiasm in a way that stories in the past have.  Maybe my thrill circuits are just knacked, but my jaded eyes just wants to see something I havn't seen before.

I would agree about computer/hand lettering (and I do) but I just feel this is part of the same problem again for me.  I'm always pining for some 2000AD that was around in the eighties, which was in almost every way an entirely different comic to the one you see today.  And I don't think that's too healthy.  Maybe everyone's a bit jaded and thats why the comic never gets above a certain level.

Ah well, I'm in one of my grim moods, sure I'll be fine by Monday again.


: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: frazer 22 January, 2003, 06:44:02 AM
I really like it:P

i prefer it to the old stuff in all honesty.

how old ARE u paul? just out of curiosity :D

F
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: paulvonscott 22 January, 2003, 07:07:30 AM
30.  I feel like I'm sixty however.  Sixty and crawling into my grave...  thou cheeky Juve!

I heard you say you were really into modern 2000AD at Dreddcon at some talk or other, and I have to say I felt a bit envious.  I want that feeling back!  

Really all the moaning about this and that is just that lack of 'something' I'm trying to pin down and can't.  

Part of my ever growing belief that 2000AD is neither aimed at me or really meant for me.  I did hope that it might be more engaging to folk like Death Monkey, heh, I could sort of say 'well, at that age, I was that into it too' and feel a proper old codger.

I'm not even sure it has anything to do with quality of script or artwork, I'm tempted to try more small press stuff, I get a real buzz out of seeing people just doing their own thing, going off in all sorts of crazy tangents that don't always make much sense, with scripts that don't work or art that is quirkily shoddy.  But you can really see the ideas frothing about.

I agree that to a modern audience the old stuff probably looks old, it would be a sad state of affairs if it didn't.  But I still think that some of the old ways of doing things produce quite exciting results.

I'd be really interested in how enthusiastic many droids are about what they do, I don't always pick it up.  I picked it up from a FEW at Dreddcon, but then the rest might have had hangovers :)
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Oddboy 22 January, 2003, 03:58:02 PM
But why take the time to look up the site, register. then post is you're getting away from it anyway.

To be fair - Deathmonkey hasn't done this.
He was around the message board quite regularly at the beginning of the year (this was his 127th post) & has been coming in less & less over the last few months, presumably as his interest in 2000AD has dwindled.
It doesn't take long to type www.2000adonline.com (or like most of us who use the site regularly; hit the favorites link) and respect is due for his comments & honesty.  Better people say goodbye first then just disappear.
Still think he's wrong about 2000AD though, it's pretty topper at the moment.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: W. R. Logan 22 January, 2003, 04:25:21 PM
Personally if  I felt that strongly about something I?d stop buying it.

Bye and don?t let the door hit you on the arse as your leaving,

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: W. R. Logan 22 January, 2003, 04:29:26 PM
>How can anyone pour scorn on the latest offerings in 2000ad? Slaine is the best I have seen it since The Horned God,

Would strongly argue about that comment, after a good start its starting to go downhill rapidly. Slaine should have been put to death after his 7 year reign, or given to another writer, but as we all know Pat Mills gaurds his characters and has a hissy fit if anyone else writes them.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Wake 22 January, 2003, 04:46:51 PM
but as we all know Pat Mills gaurds his characters and has a hissy fit if anyone else writes them.

Even if it's for a fanzine. I've added a note to the bottom of the character profiles index to this effect.

Wake

Link: Character Profiles Index

: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Matt Timson 22 January, 2003, 06:11:28 PM
"Even if it's for a fanzine. I've added a note to the bottom of the character profiles index to this effect."

Blimey!  So you have!  Patt Mills in "miserable git" shocker...

Is it just me, or does this attitude strike anybody else as being a bit- well- I'm afraid that "sad" is the only word I can think of!?!

Anyone else?
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: GordonR 22 January, 2003, 06:29:06 PM
Oh god, I remember that.  The poor guy on the receiving end of it posted Pat's comments to him yo (I think) the Zarjaz group.

It was maybe the closest thing I've ever read to a written mugging.

I've had some personal experience of Pat's feelings on the matter myself, as will be somewhat entertainingly revealed in the final TPO articles in the Meg.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Queen Firey-Bou 22 January, 2003, 07:04:49 PM
so how about someone write a tale about cuchulain & his warp spasms, his lady wife , Emer (IIRC), & his battles with the fomorian sea demons ?
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Matt 22 January, 2003, 07:09:38 PM
I'll stand by my earlier comments, the new series of Slaine is far and away better than any of the stories that followed The Horned God. The Robin Hood, Grail and Secret Commonwealth stories were just shite. But just because I think Slaine has picked up form with Moloch doesn't mean I think it's the best its ever been. I'd agree with Logan that Slaine should have died after his 7 year reign, the series reached a natural conclusion with Slaine becoming highking. From wanderer to  king, we'd seen Slaines story peak and nothing that has followed has ever lived up to the previous stories.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Wils 22 January, 2003, 07:10:45 PM
This means that my fan-fic story...

Slaine queues up at the 5 Items or Less till at Tesco's even though he's got 6 bottles of Wash-and-Go in his basket. (He didn't think it too many.)

...will *never* see print.

;)
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Matt Timson 22 January, 2003, 07:31:48 PM
"Oh god, I remember that. The poor guy on the receiving end of it posted Pat's comments to him yo (I think) the Zarjaz group."

I'll have to take your word for that one- I've been a "pending" member at Zarjaz for about as long as I've been a member here...

: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Art 22 January, 2003, 07:58:21 PM
The last message posted on the Zarjaz group was on September 16th, so you're not missing much action.

: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Devons Daddy 22 January, 2003, 08:06:57 PM
i think in fairness.
real genuis in creative types tends to go hand in hand with slight quirkyness, for want of a better word.
i really enjoy pat mills stuff.if this is his quirk ok. we dont have to be his buddy.ignore his rants,but enjoy his work.

sad about the slaine in tescos idea though that woudl have been right up there with slaine as robin hood.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Art 22 January, 2003, 08:13:31 PM
I have just re read the letter in question and i can honetsly say that Mills inadvertantly makes the best argument against creators rights that I've ever seen. He totally sounds like a two year old whos outraged that someone might touch one of his toys.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: GordonR 22 January, 2003, 08:22:11 PM
No comment, but what you've got to remember was that the guy was just a well-meaning fan who wanted loved Pat's work and wanted to do a Slaine strip for a 2000AD fanzine and, out of politeness and fairness (remember, Pat doesn't actually own Slaine, and Andy Diggle had already given the Zarjaz guys the unofficial wink that it would be okay to use 2000AD-copyrighted characters in the 'zine) wanted to get Pat's blessing for it.

Other creators - most nobably Official Most Decent Man In Comics Alan Grant - had been extremely helpful and encouraging to other people doing Zarjaz strips based on characters they created/wrote, but this poor guy really was walking into the lion's den here...
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: paulvonscott 22 January, 2003, 08:28:41 PM
I read it and I thought Pat had a good point to make, though not everyone feels the same way, I thought his viewpoint was fair enough.

However he really should have probably had a cold shower and slipped a few moggadon before deciding to press the button and go nuclear.  

Dear me, diplomacy before war old chap.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Art 22 January, 2003, 08:28:56 PM
Why, its almost as if he's afraid that someones dodgy fanfic might be *better* than his own efforts...

Oh dear.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Devons Daddy 22 January, 2003, 08:41:28 PM
now i have not read the letter
but havent we all
written the email form hell. hit send and thought.there got you .
only to re read it an hour later and think
WHAT HAVE I DONE.
was this that kind of thing?
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Oddboy 22 January, 2003, 08:48:52 PM
Wake, how "official" is this?
Are you taking down fanfic Sl?ine stuff etc?
Will you have to refuse any future drawings of Satanus from being hosted on the site?

Or is it up to the artists/writers if they're brave enough to go against the Mills?
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: El Spurioso 22 January, 2003, 08:51:31 PM
In all fairness, there probably *is* a case for Mr Mills to reasonably be edgy about someone else writing a character which he feels very strongly is 'his'.  I know for a fact he's not the only long-standing 2000AD creator who's pulled the plug on fan-written stuff based upon one of 'their' characters (because I was the cheeky git trying to write it), so I can't really condemn him there.

He *did* do it in a spectacularly 'chuck-the-toys-outta-the-pram' fashion, mind you, which didn't really do him any favours as a Friend of the Fans.  
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: GordonR 22 January, 2003, 09:10:59 PM
Hey, if you wanna see real 'throwing the toys out the pram' stuff, wait for the final TPO article.

Pat and a former Tharg apparently completely tear into each other in print.  Vicious no-holds-barred stuff, I gather.  

You have been warned, so subscribe or reserve your copy now.  This one's gonna be a classic!
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Devons Daddy 22 January, 2003, 09:12:59 PM
you could always finish a fan script with the foot note
see you in court mr mills.

if he wants to be like that, enjoy winding him up at least.fan fiction is the highest form of flattery. at the end of the day we are the customers.
pity though it kind of pours a little laughter over an iconic figure in our collective world.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: garry_bodsworth 22 January, 2003, 10:15:37 PM
I was drawing a Joe Pineapples strip for Zarjaz 2 as well, but that got canned after the letter from Pat Mills.  I only pencilled one or two pages but I was enjoying it, the whole situation did leave me feeling very deflated but it is just one of those things.

Garry
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Wils 23 January, 2003, 02:55:48 AM
I'm guessing that Tweak is another no-go as well. Which is a damn shame as lots of people are calling for his return, and the most likely place for that to happen is probably in a fanzine.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: JimBob 23 January, 2003, 03:40:40 AM
 Mills has always been a huge comic icon for almost all of us which is why it's so dissapointing to read of his attitude toward the Zarjaz chaps. I can understand him being protective of Nemesis and the ABCs but Satanus? Its a big dinosaur no different in execution from any other big Dinosaur and it features in Dredd (surely a house Character?).
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: Mangamax 23 January, 2003, 06:28:54 AM
Hey Paul. Do you think its a case of not so much wanting 2000 AD to be like it was when you were reading it back in the eighties but more to do with harking back to how you REACTED to it in the eighties? I know when i read the back progs (especially 1 - 100) they invoke all sorts of memories - not only the ritual of the weekly wait but the art you'd doodle (and if you were brave enough, send in to Tharg), other comics you'd read, the speculation in the letters page on whether Dredd was actually human and loads more. Thats why i enjoyed the first couple of T.P.O's more than the rest. So, i guess we can't react the same now as we did to our own halcyon era of the prog as we aren't the same people we were then.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: paulvonscott 23 January, 2003, 07:14:40 AM
Yeah, possibly it's just the vibe I miss, though maybe I am just more of a moaning git now as well.

Probably a bit much to ask Tharg for more 'vibe', it started to lose it for me post 520... so, hmmm... I dunno.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: W. R. Logan 23 January, 2003, 07:37:40 AM
Pat the ultimate rewrite editor has a problem with people rewriting his stuff or using any of his characters in anything.

Join the Zarjaz yahoo group:

http://www.2000adonline.com/covers/2000ad/mediumres/668.jpg

and look at message: 180

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: W. R. Logan 23 January, 2003, 07:40:15 AM
Satanus??

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.
: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: GordonR 23 January, 2003, 03:22:02 PM
>>Pat the ultimate rewrite editor has a problem with people rewriting his stuff

This point has been much muttered over in some quarters.

The hand-bags fly and the rattles get thrown out the pram in the last TPO, in a section called, I believe, 'The Egoes Have Landed.'

I tell ya, you really _don't_ want to miss  this one...

: Re: i jus finished my subscription...
: The Monarch 23 January, 2003, 05:28:13 PM
the way you've been promoting it i don't want to miss it gordon