Science is Drokking Fantastic Because...

[The Legendary Shark]

I don't accept that.
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Er...
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Seriously, though, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. There are seven billion perspectives on this planet, and that's just the humans, so what right have I got to say that mine is superior to yours? None at all.
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When it comes to David Ike (whom I didn't bring up) I'd say there's about five to ten percent truth in what he says. Hancock, (whom I did bring up) I'd give 20 - 30% truth. Hoagland I'd give 52%, 52.75% tops. And it's that 2.75% that demands I take an interest. And that's all it is - an interest.
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And what exactly is it you want to say that I should accept or believe? I'm certain that there are many things we can agree on and some that we might and a few that we can't.
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Do I think that certain interests are trying to hide the fact that there are ancient ruins elsewhere in the Solar System? 52.75% sure, yeah. So I give the idea some time and some thought. (It's my brain, I can do what I want with it.)
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[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

I don't accept that.
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Er...
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Seriously, though, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. There are seven billion perspectives on this planet, and that's just the humans, so what right have I got to say that mine is superior to yours? None at all.

Even if someones perspective or opinion is that Blacks, Jews, Gays and Asians are sub-human scum? I don't get to say my way of thinking is superior?

Wise up

[ZenArcade]

Shark, why try to hide the fact there are ancient ruins. What is so threatening to our psyche that knowledge such as this cannot be released. It is simply nonsensical. All we can do is apply Occam's razor and the simple explanation: there aren't any ruins etc becomes the overwhelmingly likely answer. Z

[JPMaybe]

Do I think that certain interests are trying to hide the fact that there are ancient ruins elsewhere in the Solar System? 52.75% sure, yeah. So I give the idea some time and some thought. (It's my brain, I can do what I want with it.)
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No shit, it's yours to waste on this drivel.  And evaluate to within a hundredth of a percent how much you believe it.  Keep posting about it and people will keep telling you it's pure bughouse scatterfuck codswallop.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Give a scientist data and he or she will work with it properly and correctly. Show a geologist images of Mars and he or she is inAnd science and politics don't mix - because politics will decide what to fund and install bureaucrats to assign data to scientists and scientists to data.

After which the scientist publishes a paper on the data, which includes said data to be peer reviewed. Scientists can spout whatever crazy theories they like, but won't be taken seriously until they present their evidence to be ruthlessy torn apart by the science community. Scrutinized far past the point of "that's photoshopped, you can tell by the pixels"

Either you are hugely ignorant of how modern science works or you are trolling

[Richmond Clements]

As far as I am concerned, this argument has reached an impasse and it might be as well to move on

Funny how that seems to happen when people either ask for facts or present evidence....

[Jim_Campbell]

A guy who said he worked for NASA said so in a chat room several years ago.

HOW MUCH MORE EVIDENCE DO YOU NEED, CLEMENTS?!

Ho ho ho.

Jim

[ZenArcade]

E-mailing specs for a spanner to the ISS and 3D printing it. Zarjazz! Z

[Professor Bear]

Shark, why try to hide the fact there are ancient ruins. What is so threatening to our psyche that knowledge such as this cannot be released.

I don't subscribe to what Sharky is espousing in this instance, but proof of life on other planets would be the biggest news in human history and the developed nations - whether they liked it or not - would be pushed towards new space exploration budgets none of them can afford thanks to their being stuck with long-term contracts with ineffective private companies and their reliance on outdated and increasingly-failing technology.  With the amount of money and conservative worldviews at stake, covering something up probably seems preferable to the alternative.

On the other hand, maybe NASA just don't want another fifty years of people thinking a splodge on a lens is proof of aliens, like what happened with that face thing or those "pyramids".  I mean, there's still nutters arguing we didn't go to the Moon.

[ZenArcade]

If there were indeed alien artifacts extant on another planet, asteroid or in free orbit around the Sun, there of course would be a public clamour to recover them. But this would be a boon to the Space Agencies. Budgets would be allocated and there would be a push for technologies to transport a team of technologists/archaeologists to the site. Z

[Professor Bear]

A boon to the space agencies, yes, but detrimental to the private industries that are responsible for western nations' space travel arrangements.  All NASA manned spaceflights are performed through corporate bodies who have deliberately held back the advancement of space exploration so that they won't have to pay to keep up and can continue to use decades-old rocket technology* and maximise profits from lucrative - and binding - government contracts.  Barring their having a lot more X-37s squirreled away somewhere, they can barely perform to standard as it is and would be royally fucked if they suddenly had to take part in a space race with the East.




*If Sharky had instead postulated that the American military industrial complex was conspiring to sabotage rival technologies that could advance the space programme by decades - such as those developed by Space X or Virgin Galactic - I would probably be a lot less skeptical and lap that shit up.

[ZenArcade]

Oh there is no dispute here over the role of private corporations in space. Z

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Here's an interesting factoid, most countries (at least all the ones who could currently acheive spaceflight) have signed an international agreement to neither independently annex any non-terrestrial territory nor contaminate them with terrestrial flora or fauna. Private corporations have not.

[The Legendary Shark]

Okay, so let's assume you're all right and that I'm a f*cking stupid idiot who believes everything he hears and is no better than a racist.
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Explain to me why it's impossible for there to be ruins on Mars or elsewhere in the Solar System.
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As to the why it might be covered up, well I don't really know, do I? Maybe it was because all the exploration started in the paranoid era of the First Cold War and certain interests didn't want the Russians to know. At what point do they "come clean" without stirring up the irrational anger that's been seen on this thread lately? To admit to that initial lie now would damage NASA's credibility and funding - even though the majority of NASA employees would know nothing about it.
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Maybe some of the Apollo missions brought back samples of life or ancient technology - why give that to the world when it could be studied in secret to gain a pharmaceutical or technological edge?
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Maybe it's simple human psychology in action. There's no sound scientific foundation upon which to state with any certainty that there was some kind of local interplanetary civilisation that predates us by maybe millions of years and so the default view of anything that might look odd is "it's strange but it's definitely natural." Given the reception that I, a completely unqualified layman, have been given here for even suggesting the possibility of such a thing, I can only imagine that the attitude within NASA is equally vitriolic. Under those conditions, which one of them would want to be the first to say, "actually, I think that might well be an artificial thing"? That person would be crucified, as I have been here but to a much greater degree.
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Maybe it's a combination of the above or something else. Or maybe I'm flat out wrong,  or only half right, who knows?
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I didn't want to talk about the possible cover-ups and politics concerning this subject - at least not on this thread - but I ended up having to. I wanted to talk about the possibility that there's something out there worth a second look and a different perspective. A different perspective is not a disease.
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I haven't provided any links because in most instances I can't. Most of the stuff I've learned has come from all over the place; books, magazines, internet, conversations and debates, school, TV, radio, imagination, inference, supposition. Yes, supposition - I admit it, how could anyone not? As I said earlier, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything but you demand links and sources as if I am. None of you are stupid, you know where to look if you're interested.
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But I will post one link, in the hopes of dragging this back in the direction I intended. It's a link to an image of Mars.
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Those formations to the bottom left, what could they be? The remains of some ancient alien 'Crystal Palace' buried in mud after the event that killed this world slowly being revealed through erosion? Is it a trick of the light? An ancient collapsed lava tube? Is it an indication of current life, in much the same way as a termite mound as life clusters around and follows a submartian water flow? (Mars appears to be a very dry world but perhaps not bone dry. There has been some hints that water might be able to exist in its liquid state on the surface for a short time before almost instantly boiling off into the atmosphere. The water cycle on wet Earth is very obvious but on Mars it may be way more subtle, just vapours and frost condensing out of the atmosphere and into the soil practically molecules at a time but still seeking the lowest level. Where water is so scarce any rivers would most likely be nothing more than damp streamers of soil with only the whisper of a flow. Life, if life there is, would likely stick close to and even follow these flows, just as plants follow rivers on Earth but in a vastly lower-energy environment.) Or is it just geology? What is it?
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www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04/mediummaps/M0400291.jpg
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And regardless of all the politics and shouting, this is an image of Mars. It's magnificent that it even exists at all for us to argue about and admire.

[Richmond Clements]

Okay, so let's assume you're all right and that I'm a f*cking stupid idiot who believes everything he hears and is no better than a racist.

Oh for god sake man, get over yourself.
As for the photo - what 'formations'?
Can you tell me the size of the image, please? What scale is it to and what kind of definition are we looking at?  For all I know this image could be twenty metres or twenty miles.