Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 

Author Topic: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.  (Read 2381 times)

IndigoPrime

  • Administrator
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 10600
    • View Profile
    • http://www.craiggrannell.com
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #45 on: 03 August, 2021, 08:32:06 PM »
Ayoade is too old. Moreover, he always plays the character of Richard Ayoade, whether he’s in a sit-com, doing an interview or is on a panel show. We wouldn’t get Doctor Who—we’d get Richard Ayoade.

As for Gatiss, his scripts for the show have been variable, and given his work on Sherlock I’d fear he’d do a Moffat and just try to be too clever. He’d be a lazy hire, and so is probably likely to get it, judging by the BBC’s track record.

abelardsnazz

  • Member
  • Prog Stacking Droid
  • ***
  • Posts: 996
  • Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown.
    • View Profile
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #46 on: 03 August, 2021, 10:23:00 PM »
Ayoade is too old. Moreover, he always plays the character of Richard Ayoade, whether he’s in a sit-com, doing an interview or is on a panel show. We wouldn’t get Doctor Who—we’d get Richard Ayoade.

As for Gatiss, his scripts for the show have been variable, and given his work on Sherlock I’d fear he’d do a Moffat and just try to be too clever. He’d be a lazy hire, and so is probably likely to get it, judging by the BBC’s track record.

Ayoade too old? He's stlll younger than Capaldi was when he got the role. I'm a fan of Gatiss, not least for The League of Gentlemen, and think he could do something with the show. I think the writers shouldn't be too afraid to take it into scary territory, as Jim said, avoiding all the convolution that Moffat seemed to think was necessary. Maybe it'll never be as good as my memories of The Robots of Death, but one can but hope.

abelardsnazz

  • Member
  • Prog Stacking Droid
  • ***
  • Posts: 996
  • Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown.
    • View Profile
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #47 on: 03 August, 2021, 10:57:33 PM »
And maybe, unlike our beloved Tooth, creators have diverted DW in so many directions since its inception. Dredd has always had the guiding hand of Wagner for 40+ years, Mills has remained in control of his universe. Other characters have taken different directions, but there's a definite consistency under Mr Smith's Thargship.

I quite liked Chibnall's upending of the Doctor's origins, it gives a big sandbox to play in. But could that all be reversed a la The Time War? 

IndigoPrime

  • Administrator
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 10600
    • View Profile
    • http://www.craiggrannell.com
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #48 on: 03 August, 2021, 11:02:11 PM »
I would say, yes, 44 is too old. Plus he’d be 46 by the time the first next series episode aired. Capaldi was too old too, hence merch sales tanking.

Mister Pops

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 3278
  • You're Goddamn right!
    • View Profile
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #49 on: 04 August, 2021, 12:26:12 AM »
I would say, yes, 44 is too old. Plus he’d be 46 by the time the first next series episode aired. Capaldi was too old too, hence merch sales tanking.

Diane Morgan is 45. Would you say say she would be a bad choice because she's too old? I would argue that the merch sales suffered more from the quality of the show/scripts than the age of the lead actor.
You may quote me on that.

Goosegash

  • Member
  • Sentient Tea Bot
  • **
  • Posts: 462
    • View Profile
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #50 on: 04 August, 2021, 01:15:08 PM »
That speech at the end of Capaldi’s run was cringeworthy. It went on forever and felt like the antithesis of what is Doctor was all about—although it was off course a Moffat blog post about what he thought the character should be. Awful. I kind of hope Whitakker’s doesn’t do something so overblown. “Bye, then!”

Not sure if you're talking about the speech from The Doctor Falls when he's trying to persuade Missy and The Master to fight with him, or the regeneration speech from Twice Upon A Time?

If it's former I heartily disagree, but if it's the latter, then okay, maybe.

Arguably TUAT should never have happened anyway, it was only made as there was an Xmas Special gap that needed to be filled and Moffat didn't want to be the one to end that tradition (which Chibnall then did anyway by having it be a New Year's Day special instead). But really, it only serves to weaken the impact of the Doctor's sacrifice at the end of TDF, which IMO was the perfect ending for Capaldi's Doctor, with the perfect last words - "Pity, no stars...I thought there'd be stars..."

Goosegash

  • Member
  • Sentient Tea Bot
  • **
  • Posts: 462
    • View Profile
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #51 on: 04 August, 2021, 01:22:06 PM »
I quite liked Chibnall's upending of the Doctor's origins, it gives a big sandbox to play in. But could that all be reversed a la The Time War?

It will end up being undone somehow. No showrunner will ever really be able to address it, because it completely breaks the show, and I can't imagine any future writers will want to work around such a massive elephant in the room.

I'll say this: for all the ups and downs of the Moffat era, and there were quite a few downs, at no point did I ever think, "Hmm, might stop watching this now." I didn't last two seasons into the Chibnall era before calling it a day.

The thing about Dr Who in the past was that there was a sense that even if you weren't enjoying a particular episode, you'd know a new one was coming along that could be better. I've completely lost that sense from the programme now. The whole ethos behind this era of the show feels so flawed and executed so poorly that I just can't relate to it as the same show anymore.

I don't think anything in a previous episode has been as offensive to me as the apologia for corporate malfeasance in "Kerblam!". That is fundamentally not the Doctor to me, the idea that the any version of the character would take the side of a vast corporate entity over the lives of the human beings in it's employ.

The series has almost without fail taken the side of the weak against the bullies, time and time again. It's just a given that the Doctor will stick up for the underdogs over the oppressors. How could they get Dr Who so wrong?

IndigoPrime

  • Administrator
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 10600
    • View Profile
    • http://www.craiggrannell.com
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #52 on: 04 August, 2021, 01:36:40 PM »
Part of the issue is Chibnall just not developing the Doctor. Who is she? What does she stand for? It seems to be fluid, to serve the needs of whatever half-finished script has been shoved into production. She has catharses but no depth. For all the flaws of every previous incarnation, at least you knew what they stood for. Then again, they were all men, and so Chibnall was probably confused and thus had to spend whatever time he had on character development fleshing out Graham and relatively ignoring everyone else.

Goosegash: Yes, I’m talking about the overblown 7-hour-long thing right at the end of Capaldi’s run, which was so overblown and pompous that it was presumably responsible for five million eyeballs rolling down the street.

As for the new origins bollocks, that surely needs to be unraveled. Mind you, a smart showrunner could deftly deal with that, if they chose do, positioning it as a lie. Or they could just ignore and never speak of it again—or just reference it in passing. In terms of status quo reset, the one thing that would be a pity to remove would be Jo Martin’s Doctor. But then a smart scriptwriter could presumably deal with that too.

wedgeski

  • Member
  • Prog Stacking Droid
  • ***
  • Posts: 624
    • View Profile
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #53 on: 04 August, 2021, 01:48:13 PM »
As for the new origins bollocks, that surely needs to be unraveled. Mind you, a smart showrunner could deftly deal with that, if they chose do, positioning it as a lie. Or they could just ignore and never speak of it again—or just reference it in passing. In terms of status quo reset, the one thing that would be a pity to remove would be Jo Martin’s Doctor. But then a smart scriptwriter could presumably deal with that too.
We need to entertain the possibility that Chibnall knows *exactly* where this story is going and will himself unravel it in the time remaining.

IndigoPrime

  • Administrator
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 10600
    • View Profile
    • http://www.craiggrannell.com
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #54 on: 04 August, 2021, 02:00:52 PM »
Perhaps. Feels more like a showrunner making his mark than a feint. If it’s the latter, fair enough. Even then, he’ll have to play the Jo Martin situation very carefully, given that he’s stated multiple times that she is The Doctor. Hand-waving away the first POC to have the role with some timey-wimey piece of half-baked scripting would not be a good thing.

von Boom

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 3466
    • View Profile
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #55 on: 04 August, 2021, 02:10:17 PM »
As for the new origins bollocks, that surely needs to be unraveled. Mind you, a smart showrunner could deftly deal with that, if they chose do, positioning it as a lie. Or they could just ignore and never speak of it again—or just reference it in passing. In terms of status quo reset, the one thing that would be a pity to remove would be Jo Martin’s Doctor. But then a smart scriptwriter could presumably deal with that too.
We need to entertain the possibility that Chibnall knows *exactly* where this story is going and will himself unravel it in the time remaining.
It's easily undone. At the end of Whittaker's run bring Capaldi back for a short scene where he is found in the shower and immediately regenerates.

broodblik

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 3716
  • watkykjy?
    • View Profile
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #56 on: 04 August, 2021, 02:12:55 PM »
It's easily undone. At the end of Whittaker's run bring Capaldi back for a short scene where he is found in the shower and immediately regenerates.

Nope, not a good choice. He never worked as the Doctor
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

wedgeski

  • Member
  • Prog Stacking Droid
  • ***
  • Posts: 624
    • View Profile
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #57 on: 04 August, 2021, 02:13:41 PM »
Perhaps. Feels more like a showrunner making his mark than a feint. If it’s the latter, fair enough. Even then, he’ll have to play the Jo Martin situation very carefully, given that he’s stated multiple times that she is The Doctor. Hand-waving away the first POC to have the role with some timey-wimey piece of half-baked scripting would not be a good thing.
I agree. There's plenty of form from other shows in the last few years to suggest that they have no idea where they're going, but we have a series and three specials to come from this team, and that's a lot of scripts to go into without a plan.

SmallBlueThing(Reborn)

  • Member
  • Prog Stacking Droid
  • ***
  • Posts: 787
    • View Profile
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #58 on: 04 August, 2021, 02:27:25 PM »
Capaldi is my favourite of the new Doctors- even my loathing of Moffat's scripting ability couldn't stop him shining through, and he makes otherwise appalling episodes watchable. The ratings slide (which various interested parties are happy to acknowledge when it suits them... like when lobbying for younger, sexier Doctors and making out Capaldi had a negative effect on merch... when in reality, merch sales tanked with Smith... while at the same time denying vehemently and claiming "TV is different now", high profile American fan writers  and BBC Enterprises I'm looking at you both) could be seen as just the natural audience fatigue with a long-running show with minimal internal continuity of narrative, and a response to the BBC's singular failure to put out a regular series, at regular times, to a regular schedule, since Moffat took over.

It certainly needs a rethink, and a commitment to make x number of episodes, every year. Those days when RTD was overseeing 14x Who, 13x Torchwood, 13x Confidential (not to mention the Sarah Jane Adventures) every year seem very long ago.

SBT

broodblik

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 3716
  • watkykjy?
    • View Profile
Re: Jodie Whittaker to leave Doctor Who.
« Reply #59 on: 04 August, 2021, 02:35:17 PM »
Maybe it is time to sunset the series and wait a few years and allowing someone to come up with a better "idea"
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.