Last movie watched...

[TordelBack]

There are some great sets in Crystal Skull though - the Mayan graveyard is excellent and incredibly creepy!

True, and the actual bowels of Akator are very good too: I love that final red ceramic doorway.  What annoys me are the supposedly outdoor daytime scenes, where the same ugly yellowish spotlight seems to be used as 'the sun' in every instance, be it the Peruvian jungle or the Nevada desert.  It's really no substitute for Tunisia!

I felt that these rogue, buttoned-up heavies should've acted as the real foil for Indy instead of them just turning out to be the exposition arm of the government giving Indy his brief.

I see what you mean, but I also feel that having the Russians as baddies played along well with the Pulp Serial conceit - a 50's action-adventure could really have no other villain, let alone sinister agents of the government itself.

I also enjoyed the way this film made is of the Young Indiana Jones mythos, where Indy was the linguist and spy he conspicuously wasn't in Last Crusade.

[Dark Jimbo]

Hmm. I saw ...Crystal Skull for the first time this xmas. Having studiously avoided it thus far based on reputation alone, initially I was pleasantly surprised. The Raiders-warehouse homage is cheeky and a bit too obvious a nod to the past, but it works - had me grinning like a loon when the penny dropped. Even the infamous fridge scene didn't bother me too much - in context, I thought it worked much better than one would think, if being admittedly a little bit silly. Cate Blanchett was superb as the villian and an inspired creation, as was Wintone's rumpled adventurer. Loved the tantalising references to Indy's wartime exploits with SOE and the brief time spent in the US of the '50s with its milk bars, bikers, and 'reds under the beds' paranoia. I let myself dare to think 'You know what? I actually... think I like this film.'

Even at this point I could certainly see why people hadn't. Loads of conspicuosly CG-ed skies had already grated and a (mercifully brief) scene of CG comedy gophers had briefly made me want to chew my own fist off but on the whole I was feeling so well disposed that I gave the benefit of the doubt to LeBouf's character and found I didn't mind even him. Basically I thought fandom had been far too harsh on all counts. The Sancho Panzer reference is a nice nod to the Young Indy chronicles. The graveyard scene is great - echoing similar scenes from all three previous films and yet miraculously finding new ground to tread and not feeling like a reprieve of former glories. John Hurt is great, the return of Marion is great, Blanchett and Winstone continue to be great.

Then the film fell straight off a cliff. In a jeep. Onto a tree. In fact, the rot started pretty much as soon as the cast got in their jeeps, to drive through some CGI beneath a CGI, while -LENSFLARE- battling some CGI and trying -LENSFLARE- to avoid -LENSFLARE- some more CGI and - oh no! Some CGI drop out of the CGI onto-LENSFLARE- the jeeps and - yeah, you've probably seen it. Comedy monkeys, comedy fucking ants, numerous pale imitations of scenes from Raiders and Crusade that only serve to highlight the shortcomings of the current effort, and oh yes, did I mention that there was perhaps just a touch too much CGI? There are the bones of a genuinely classic scene here, but not a single thing bar the cast feels as though it actually exists, and the constant forced attempts at comedy are starting to border on the pathetic.

The aforementioned off-the-cliff jeep-jump is equally bad/fake/painful/silly (and makes no sense. Marion drives them off the cliff with a 'trust me' as though it's all part of a well worked-out plan but how, given she's not been here before, could she know the tree was there? How could she see over the edge of the cliff? How could she know they would land exactly on the tree and be gracefully lowered into the water? Gaah.) Then we have some 'comedy' CG rapids-jumping down CG waterfalls -LENSFLARE- and it's pretty clear that sense has gone out of the window. This is no longer happening in any semblance of the real world, where laws like physics and logic apply. Every new event is piled on the next with increasing rapidity in an attempt at spectatcle but all that results is apathy, and I can hear the ghosts of the film crew whispering in my ear, 'Do you like us yet? Please say you like us. Look, more CGI! That's what kids today like, isn't it? Please like us. How about now? There'll be aliens later. How about then?'

All goodwill was thouroughly exhausted by this point. The use of CG and lensflare inexplicably KEEPS GETTING WORSE. Marion, aside from her intro and the dialogue scene in the jeep, could actually be anyone - totally surplus to requirements, the script-writers give her nothing to do or say and she's simply the token woman. LeBouf likewise feels pointless by this point. In fact, there are too many characters altogether and nobody is getting proper development. I don't care about a single thing that's happening anymore because it's taking place in an empty, souless CG universe divorced from the flesh-and-blood world of three dimensions. Aliens, -LENSFLARE-, crystalskullBLAH, temple collapses, BLAH BLAH BLAH. This must be how Star Wars fans felt when the prequels were made.

[JOE SOAP]

I felt that these rogue, buttoned-up heavies should've acted as the real foil for Indy instead of them just turning out to be the exposition arm of the government giving Indy his brief.

I see what you mean, but I also feel that having the Russians as baddies played along well with the Pulp Serial conceit - a 50's action-adventure could really have no other villain, let alone sinister agents of the government itself.

Could've been the hidden agendas of nefarious Nazi scientists imported after WWII which is more in keeping with the series, pulp conspiracy scenarios from the Oppenheimer era and its most potent product: the proverbial nuked-fridge. The Cold War schtick didn't really work in this one.

[Richmond Clements]

The aforementioned off-the-cliff jeep-jump is equally bad/fake/painful/silly

Certainly not as realistic as jumping from an aircraft using an inflatable raft to break your fall and then plunge into a river, or ride a rollercoaster through an endless mine...

I really do not get how people complain this film has silly moments like this if they have ever seen an Indiana Jones film before...

[TordelBack]

Could've been the hidden agendas of nefarious Nazi scientists imported after WWII which is more in keeping with the series and pulp conspiracy scenarios from the Oppenheimer era. The Cold War schtick didn't really work in this one.

Ooh yuss, The Boys from Peru, that would have been good!   

Still, I'm not sure I agree with entirely you re: the Cold War.  The merging of Sputnik-fear with Little Grey Men in their Flying Hubcaps seems to be a sensible step on from Hitler and the Occult, keeping the series going forward rather than harking back to something that was done well one-and-a-half-times before.  Having an older Indy challenged by contemporary threats (the KGB, nukes, Lettermen and Greasers) against a backdrop of ancient lost cities provides more contrast than fighting old familiar threats.  Last Crusade already had that RotJ 'greatest hits' feel, without doing Nazis again.

Still wouldn't mind seeing your version, though!

[Dark Jimbo]

The aforementioned off-the-cliff jeep-jump is equally bad/fake/painful/silly

Certainly not as realistic as jumping from an aircraft using an inflatable raft to break your fall and then plunge into a river, or ride a rollercoaster through an endless mine...

I really do not get how people complain this film has silly moments like this if they have ever seen an Indiana Jones film before...

I didn't really like Temple... on the whole, for just such reasons, but I do take your point.

I dunno, I'm well aware that all the films have similarly outrageous moments in them, but for some reason they don't bother me nearly as much (if at all). I think perhaps the difference is that in the original films they feel like natural progressions of the plot (if sometimes silly or unrealistic) and part of the fun, where I was too conscious in Crystal Skull of the film crew piling incident on top of incident in an attempt to win me round, or worse, because 'that's what happens in Indy movies.'

[JOE SOAP]

Ooh yuss, The Boys from Peru, that would have been good!

and Mutt turns out to be Indy's clone!   

Still, I'm not sure I agree with entirely you re: the Cold War.  The merging of Sputnik-fear with Little Grey Men in their Flying Hubcaps seems to be a sensible step on from Hitler and the Occult, keeping the series going forward rather than harking back to something that was done well one-and-a-half-times before.  Having an older Indy challenged by contemporary threats (the KGB, nukes, Lettermen and Greasers) against a backdrop of ancient lost cities provides more contrast than fighting old familiar threats.  Last Crusade already had that RotJ 'greatest hits' feel, without doing Nazis again.

Yeah, I get that; it all works on paper and should work on-screen but I just don't think their execution of it was good especially with the Winstone flip-flop-plot that took up way too much screen-time.

[Recrewt]

The aforementioned off-the-cliff jeep-jump is equally bad/fake/painful/silly

Certainly not as realistic as jumping from an aircraft using an inflatable raft to break your fall and then plunge into a river, or ride a rollercoaster through an endless mine...

I really do not get how people complain this film has silly moments like this if they have ever seen an Indiana Jones film before...

I didn't really like Temple... on the whole, for just such reasons, but I do take your point.

I dunno, I'm well aware that all the films have similarly outrageous moments in them, but for some reason they don't bother me nearly as much (if at all). I think perhaps the difference is that in the original films they feel like natural progressions of the plot (if sometimes silly or unrealistic) and part of the fun, where I was too conscious in Crystal Skull of the film crew piling incident on top of incident in an attempt to win me round, or worse, because 'that's what happens in Indy movies.'

HaHa! I thought exactly the same as Richmond when I was reading your post DJ.  It sounds to me like you just didn't like it, which is fair enough.  I agree that the movie is a fan service with things like the Ark appearing again in the warehouse.  I don't mind that myself but I can see why others are turned off.

[radiator]

I dunno, I'm well aware that all the films have similarly outrageous moments in them, but for some reason they don't bother me nearly as much (if at all). I think perhaps the difference is that in the original films they feel like natural progressions of the plot (if sometimes silly or unrealistic) and part of the fun, where I was too conscious in Crystal Skull of the film crew piling incident on top of incident in an attempt to win me round, or worse, because 'that's what happens in Indy movies.'

Mmmm. And maybe something to do with the sillier bits in the earlier films being relatively brief?

I had a problem with the aliens in Crystal Skull, and while you could argue that if we accept outlandish elements like supernatural religious artefacts, a literal Holy Grail* and mystical cults then why not aliens? But I think it's largely down to how it is presented - in previous Indy films, it feels like for the most part we're just glimpsing the edges of the fantastical - in Raiders there's one scene that goes bananas and the whole film builds towards it.

It's the difference between seeing say, Indy exploring the crashed, ancient wreck of a UFO and literally having aliens and UFOs right up in yo' face as they are in the third act of Crystal Skull. I have very fond memories of the Lucasarts adventure game Indiana Jones and The Fate of Atlantis, which I felt had the elements more in balance.

I had a similar experience to you, Jimbo - I remember really liking the early parts of the film like the chase through the University campus as it somewhat captured the feel of the old films, but lost interest following one too many OTT cgi set-pieces that - for me - lacked any sense of peril. I never felt like any of the (too many) characters were in any danger. I think with a lot of modern films there's that sense of an 'uncanny valley' effect - once you pass a certain sweet spot, the more escalating peril and unlikely escapes and near-misses you pile on, the more the audiences brains start to check out and the less tense it gets, and the heavily green-screened look and feel exacerbates this. It all looks too clean whereas the old films had a sweaty, gritty authentic feel to them.

*The Templar knight at the end of Crusade is just straight-up silly, though.

[Dark Jimbo]

It sounds to me like you just didn't like it, which is fair enough.

The sad thing though is that I wanted to, and at least initially, I did.

[JamesC]

I dunno, I'm well aware that all the films have similarly outrageous moments in them, but for some reason they don't bother me nearly as much (if at all). I think perhaps the difference is that in the original films they feel like natural progressions of the plot (if sometimes silly or unrealistic) and part of the fun, where I was too conscious in Crystal Skull of the film crew piling incident on top of incident in an attempt to win me round, or worse, because 'that's what happens in Indy movies.'

Mmmm. And maybe something to do with the sillier bits in the earlier films being relatively brief?

I had a problem with the aliens in Crystal Skull, and while you could argue that if we accept outlandish elements like supernatural religious artefacts, a literal Holy Grail* and mystical cults then why not aliens? But I think it's largely down to how it is presented - in previous Indy films, it feels like for the most part we're just glimpsing the edges of the fantastical - in Raiders there's one scene that goes bananas and the whole film builds towards it.

It's the difference between seeing say, Indy exploring the crashed, ancient wreck of a UFO and literally having aliens and UFOs right up in yo' face as they are in the third act of Crystal Skull. I have very fond memories of the Lucasarts adventure game Indiana Jones and The Fate of Atlantis, which I felt had the elements more in balance.

I had a similar experience to you, Jimbo - I remember really liking the early parts of the film like the chase through the University campus as it somewhat captured the feel of the old films, but lost interest following one too many OTT cgi set-pieces that - for me - lacked any sense of peril. I never felt like any of the (too many) characters were in any danger. I think with a lot of modern films there's that sense of an 'uncanny valley' effect - once you pass a certain sweet spot, the more escalating peril and unlikely escapes and near-misses you pile on, the more the audiences brains start to check out and the less tense it gets, and the heavily green-screened look and feel exacerbates this. It all looks too clean whereas the old films had a sweaty, gritty authentic feel to them.

*The Templar knight at the end of Crusade is just straight-up silly, though.

This pretty much sums up my initial thoughts on the film after seeing it at the pictures.
As I said though, I've pretty much gotten over those criticisms and look past them to find an enjoyable - though admittedly slightly silly - film that I can enjoy.
I don't quite know how I went from finding the aliens a step too far to my current feelings that they are actually handled pretty well.
As for the CGI backgrounds - in my mind they're a throwback to the obvious mattes used in 50s B movies. Whether this is intentional or not, it's enough of a justification that they don't bother me.
I could probably have a stab at explaining away the 'lack of peril' as similar to the constant cheats in the serials of old (I'm thinking of that rant that Cathy Bates has in 'Misery').

When all's said and done you either like it or you don't - I'll certainly watch it again when it comes on telly. 

[Hawkmumbler]

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is a good example of a film initially met with mixed feelings by fans but has been re-evaluated in a relatively short period of time as an actually fairly enjoyable romp. I always thought it was that, so glad I'm less an apologist these days. But even I still dislike the monkey scene, a bit TOO silly.

[radiator]

I dunno, I'm well aware that all the films have similarly outrageous moments in them, but for some reason they don't bother me nearly as much (if at all). I think perhaps the difference is that in the original films they feel like natural progressions of the plot (if sometimes silly or unrealistic) and part of the fun, where I was too conscious in Crystal Skull of the film crew piling incident on top of incident in an attempt to win me round, or worse, because 'that's what happens in Indy movies.'

Mmmm. And maybe something to do with the sillier bits in the earlier films being relatively brief?

I had a problem with the aliens in Crystal Skull, and while you could argue that if we accept outlandish elements like supernatural religious artefacts, a literal Holy Grail* and mystical cults then why not aliens? But I think it's largely down to how it is presented - in previous Indy films, it feels like for the most part we're just glimpsing the edges of the fantastical - in Raiders there's one scene that goes bananas and the whole film builds towards it.

It's the difference between seeing say, Indy exploring the crashed, ancient wreck of a UFO and literally having aliens and UFOs right up in yo' face as they are in the third act of Crystal Skull. I have very fond memories of the Lucasarts adventure game Indiana Jones and The Fate of Atlantis, which I felt had the elements more in balance.

I had a similar experience to you, Jimbo - I remember really liking the early parts of the film like the chase through the University campus as it somewhat captured the feel of the old films, but lost interest following one too many OTT cgi set-pieces that - for me - lacked any sense of peril. I never felt like any of the (too many) characters were in any danger. I think with a lot of modern films there's that sense of an 'uncanny valley' effect - once you pass a certain sweet spot, the more escalating peril and unlikely escapes and near-misses you pile on, the more the audiences brains start to check out and the less tense it gets, and the heavily green-screened look and feel exacerbates this. It all looks too clean whereas the old films had a sweaty, gritty authentic feel to them.

*The Templar knight at the end of Crusade is just straight-up silly, though.

This pretty much sums up my initial thoughts on the film after seeing it at the pictures.
As I said though, I've pretty much gotten over those criticisms and look past them to find an enjoyable - though admittedly slightly silly - film that I can enjoy.
I don't quite know how I went from finding the aliens a step too far to my current feelings that they are actually handled pretty well.
As for the CGI backgrounds - in my mind they're a throwback to the obvious mattes used in 50s B movies. Whether this is intentional or not, it's enough of a justification that they don't bother me.
I could probably have a stab at explaining away the 'lack of peril' as similar to the constant cheats in the serials of old (I'm thinking of that rant that Cathy Bates has in 'Misery').

When all's said and done you either like it or you don't - I'll certainly watch it again when it comes on telly.

Fair dos.

I happen to love the much-maligned Temple of Doom, every last racially offensive, Kate Capshaw-starring, rubber dinghy-gliding minute of it. It's by far my favourite of the four, despite having some really daft stuff. It's the one I had on video as a kid (recorded off telly, natch) so have lost count of the amount of times I've seen it - though it was only seeing the uncut VHS version in my twenties that I suddenly realised Mola Raam was actually ripping people's hearts out, and that's why Indy looks worried when they're hanging off the bridge at the end! All that heart-ripping stuff was absent in the TV cut!

[JamesC]

I went to see Temple of Doom at the cinema and for that Christmas I received the St Michael (for some reason, in those days, Marks and Spencer's used to do their own licensed annuals) Indiana Jones And the Temple of Doom annual/storybook which I'm pretty sure had a still of Mola Ramm holding somebody's heart in it! I'll have to see if I can find it and check.

[Hawkmumbler]

Temple of Doom only got passed for an uncut home video release last year would you believe it!