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2000 AD => General => : Colin YNWA 06 September, 2022, 06:28:37 AM

: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Colin YNWA 06 September, 2022, 06:28:37 AM
Sponsored by 2000ad in Stages (https://2kstages.github.io/index.html) - see links below.

Nikolai Dante - more info (https://2kstages.github.io/AtoZ/NikolaiDante/data.html)

VS

Nemesis the Warlock - more info (https://2kstages.github.io/AtoZ/Nemesis/books.html)

The draw might not have given us the semi-finals we wanted, but it’s probably given us the semi-finals we needed. These two are probably the two thrills that (well aside from Halo in my mind) stood any sort of chance against Strontium Dog. So it's fitting that they meet here so when we get to the final its probably the best possible competition we could have.

I simply don’t know how to call it so let’s just get on and see hey!

Form book - Thrills vanquished to date (in order of round met earliest to latest):

Nikolai Dante: Age of the Wolf; Caballistics Inc; DR & Quinch; Survival Geeks; ABC Warriors; Savage

Nemesis: Bison; Indigo Prime; Defoe; Insurrection; Zenith; Kingdom

SEMI FINAL - will feature just one thrill a day. I’d like to pretend this is to give these epic thrills more space and time to be commented on AND I think we’ll allow them an extra day to run as only two ties all week. So to make sure everyone gets the chance we’ll wrap up on… well I’ll come to that.

To Vote Just reply in this thread naming your favourite thrill of these two series at the beginning of your post (or use Bold tags so I can spot it easily) and say what you like about these wonderful stories after that.

Match ends early on the morning of Saturday 10th September and the winner gets a place in the Semi Finals.

What on Earth is ALL of this? (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48011.0)

For those that need ‘um and can be bothered to follow ‘um there’s some simple rules (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48011.msg1070150#msg1070150)

Any questions, just ask as ever - and have FUN!

: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Trooper McFad 06 September, 2022, 06:37:17 AM
Nikolai Dante
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: broodblik 06 September, 2022, 06:55:15 AM
Dante
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Huey2 06 September, 2022, 06:59:39 AM
Nemesis
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: rogue69 06 September, 2022, 07:15:22 AM
Nemesis the Warlock
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Rogue Judge 06 September, 2022, 07:22:40 AM
Nikolai Dante
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Dash Decent 06 September, 2022, 07:25:26 AM
Up the ante, vote for Dante.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) 06 September, 2022, 07:43:33 AM
Like in the best sea shanty
I'm wearing my jumper for Dante.

SBT
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Timothy 06 September, 2022, 07:51:23 AM
Nemesis had a great opening, and some wonderful art along the way. It rambled badly in the middle though and ended poorly. Dante on the other hand started less well, but found its feet remarkably quickly and soon became essential. It too had a wobble in the middle (Amerika, I'm looking at you) but even at this point it was still coherent, enjoyable and took the story forward. And it ended beautifully. Dante FTW.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: AlexF 06 September, 2022, 08:12:52 AM
I can't argue that Dante was great all the way through, while Nemesis wasn't. Or that Dante lacks anything in terms of character, plotting, amazing moments, imaginative sci-fi nonsesne, all of that. And great, GREAT art.
But the highs of Nemesis, in terms of art, story and character are just unbeatably high. No matter that there's more Dante, or that Dante tells one continuous very great story, versus Nemesis which promised to tell one continuous story and that gets more than muddles by the end.

The sheer ability of Nemesis books 1-VII to toally absorb my brain across decades of my life is more powerful, perhaps even than Dredd.

Nemesis T Warlock
, please.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: sheridan 06 September, 2022, 08:22:47 AM
Dante is good, but Nemesis is Nemesis.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: davidbishop 06 September, 2022, 08:27:58 AM
The Adventures of Nikolai Dante.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Aaron A Aardvark 06 September, 2022, 08:33:59 AM
Nickie Dante

For reasons.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Magnetica 06 September, 2022, 08:41:33 AM
My view is similar to Alex’s above. The highs of Nemesis are the equal of anything ever in the Prog. There are scenes and characters that have stuck with me since childhood. It’s one of only two thrills I have given serious consideration to with regard to voting against Stront.

Dante was a key part of ensuring the survival of the Prog. But it can’t match the thrills of Nemesis; as good as it is, it’s just never quite grabbed me the way Nemesis has.

So Nemesis for me.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: abelardsnazz 06 September, 2022, 08:43:36 AM
Nemesis has so much wonder, but then when Dante becomes the awesome 1-2-3 of Morrison, Fraser and Burns, there really is nothing to touch it.

Nikolai Dante.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: IndigoPrime 06 September, 2022, 09:50:10 AM
Dante by a country mile. It’s just as ambitious as Nemesis, but is actually something I’m happy to read through again and again and sorry that it ended. Nemesis… yeah. I get why people rate it, and those first few books were like nothing else in comics. But if it wins here, the nostalgia drum is surely beating strong on the forum.

(Most likely final appears to be Stront vs Nemesis, with Stront emerging as the winner. But it’d be lovely to see Dante vs Lawless, showcasing the power of more modern thrills – one of which is still a going concern – rather than 2000 AD always being mired in that limited selection of Stront/Rogue/Sláine/Nemesis alongside Dredd.)
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Barrington Boots 06 September, 2022, 10:15:45 AM
Nikolai Dante for me also. It's a startlingly good bit of work that balances comedy, brutality, pathos and romance: it tells a long-term coherent story  successfully, and encompasses real character arcs and growth.
Its such a fantastic bit of work, and it bears reading again and again. Plus incredible work from Simon Fraser and John Burns.

Nemesis is amazing for sheer imagination and artwork, but it can't maintain a long-form narrative like Dante does and I don't find myself returning to it as often. Dante forever!
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: The Mind of Wolfie Smith 06 September, 2022, 10:36:08 AM
nikolai dante
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Dash Decent 06 September, 2022, 12:25:50 PM
Like in the best sea shanty
I'm wearing my jumper for Dante.

Well done, SBT. Correctly formatted and it rhymes.  10/10.


Nickie Dante

For reasons.

Hmm, do you see where you've gone wrong, AAA?  It's short and pithy, and you've got the poetical formatting, but it doesn't rhyme.  It's a bit of a rookie mistake but well done for trying.  6/10.


Dante is good, but Nemesis is Nemesis.

Oh dear.

You could have rescued this one Sheridan, if you'd spent more of the allocated time on the question.  Something like "Dante is good at least in its genesis/but everyone knows Nemesis is Nemesis.  Still, your writing is very neat. 5/10.

The rest of you, I want you to all take out your dictionaries and colour in the 'O's.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Barrington Boots 06 September, 2022, 12:40:16 PM
Oh, if we're doing this poetically:

Here Squaxx votes are cast
Is Nemesis the greatest thrill?
No: Dante, the victor
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: NapalmKev 06 September, 2022, 12:51:44 PM
Nemesis The Warlock.

Cheers
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: paddykafka 06 September, 2022, 01:31:53 PM
Like in the best sea shanty
I'm wearing my jumper for Dante.

SBT

Ah, that reminds me of the great existential question: Where's me Jumper?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_LB-5mgw-w

Nemesis the Warlock gets my vote.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: sheridan 06 September, 2022, 02:06:29 PM
Like in the best sea shanty
I'm wearing my jumper for Dante.

SBT

Ah, that reminds me of the great existential question: Where's me Jumper?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_LB-5mgw-w

Nemesis the Warlock gets my vote.

Funnily enough the Sultans of Ping and Shriekback have come up on my playlist within the last week...
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Dash Decent 06 September, 2022, 03:13:19 PM
Ah, that reminds me of the great existential question: Where's me Jumper?

Serving as a goalpost.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Dash Decent 06 September, 2022, 03:19:19 PM
Oh, if we're doing this poetically:

Here Squaxx votes are cast
Is Nemesis the greatest thrill?
No: Dante, the victor

Very good, BB, though my careful study of the text reveals his name is actually Nikolai, not Victor.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: sheridan 06 September, 2022, 03:36:53 PM
Oh, if we're doing this poetically:

Here Squaxx votes are cast
Is Nemesis the greatest thrill?
No: Dante, the victor

You made some spelling mistakes there...

Here Squaxx votes are cast
Is Nikolai the greatest thrill?
No, danke, the Warlock
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Funt Solo 06 September, 2022, 04:04:46 PM
Like in the best sea shanty
I'm wearing my jumper for Dante.
Well done, SBT. Correctly formatted and it rhymes.  10/10.

Wait - that doesn't rhyme! Shant-ee, Dant-ay, shurely? Or do you say Dant-ee? Or do you say shant-ay?

Reminds me that Shakespeare rhymes "love" and "prove", which tells us that we used to say at least one of those rather differently.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Funt Solo 06 September, 2022, 04:07:01 PM
Most likely final appears to be Stront vs Nemesis...

I don't see that, as Dante is currently up by four votes.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Colin YNWA 06 September, 2022, 04:07:07 PM
Oh, if we're doing this poetically:

Here Squaxx votes are cast
Is Nemesis the greatest thrill?
No: Dante, the victor

You made some spelling mistakes there...

Here Squaxx votes are cast
Is Nikolai the greatest thrill?
No, danke, the Warlock

WHOOOOOOWWWW there

Just 'cos you do it in rhyme
does mean you vote two time
seeing that in bold name
made me forget you'd done the same
earlier in this very thread
If I catch anyone else you'll be dead!
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Funt Solo 06 September, 2022, 04:10:21 PM
Ah - so Dante is leading by five votes.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Colin YNWA 06 September, 2022, 04:12:30 PM
Ah - so Dante is leading by five votes.

Check no one has rhymed their way to a second vote... I'm taking names... I count these things at 6ish in the morning I can't be expected to work well at that time!
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Barrington Boots 06 September, 2022, 04:29:09 PM
Bravo!
However if you get a second poety-themed vote from someone with the forum username of, say, Harrington Hoots, I fully expect you to let that pass, Colin.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: sheridan 06 September, 2022, 04:32:28 PM
Oh, if we're doing this poetically:

Here Squaxx votes are cast
Is Nemesis the greatest thrill?
No: Dante, the victor

You made some spelling mistakes there...

Here Squaxx votes are cast
Is Nikolai the greatest thrill?
No, danke, the Warlock

WHOOOOOOWWWW there

Just 'cos you do it in rhyme
does mean you vote two time
seeing that in bold name
made me forget you'd done the same
earlier in this very thread
If I catch anyone else you'll be dead!


Eep!  To be fair (to myself) I voted for "Nemesis" the first time, and emboldened by rhyme highlighted "the Warlock" the second time - so I only put Nemesis the Warlock in bold once, just in two sections.


Yes, that's my excuse.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Colin YNWA 06 September, 2022, 04:49:07 PM
Eep!  To be fair (to myself) I voted for "Nemesis" the first time, and emboldened by rhyme highlighted "the Warlock" the second time - so I only put Nemesis the Warlock in bold once, just in two sections.

If I wasn't a Dante booster that's so good I'd have let it pass and given you the two!
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Richard 06 September, 2022, 05:03:46 PM
Mainly for the reasons given by Alex and Magnetica
I'm voting for The Warlock (also, Dante had Amerika)
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: broodblik 06 September, 2022, 05:11:34 PM
Ok my second vote then goes for Nikolai
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: moly 06 September, 2022, 07:18:01 PM
Dante
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: sintec 06 September, 2022, 09:20:00 PM
Two epic battles. Dante vs Valdamir Makarov  or Nemesis vs Torquemada.

There's no doubting that Torquemada is the better villan, there are few greater, but as a hero I feel Dante has the edge over Nemesis. Nemesis gets muddled as he progresses he gets tied up in Millsverse continuity and goes out with more of a whimper than a bang. Dante has a weaker start and takes some detours over his arc but he sticks the landing. Overall I think I'm with Dante by a whisker.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Dash Decent 07 September, 2022, 01:23:38 AM
This thread also made me realise that Nemesis has something in common with Winnie the Pooh.

They both have the same middle name.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Dash Decent 07 September, 2022, 09:06:09 AM
#
Niko-lai, Niko-lai, Niko-lai more!
Niko-lai, Niko-lai, Niko-lai more!
Niko-lai, Niko-lai, Niko-lai MORE!
And Niko-lai's company!
#

Time to get the prescription for my medicine refilled...
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: IndigoPrime 07 September, 2022, 09:44:28 AM
You’d be get Dante the pharmacist, then.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: nxylas 07 September, 2022, 10:07:38 AM
Nemesis, for the same reasons given by others. Whilst Dante was consistently good, and never reached the lows of Nemesis at its worst, it never reached the heights of Nemesis at its best, either. Surely even the most generous admirer would be hard pressed to say that nothing like Dante had ever appeared in comics before, as has often been said of Nemesis.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: The Mind of Wolfie Smith 07 September, 2022, 10:21:12 AM
to the best of my knowledge, nothing like dante has appeared in comics before, before or since in fact.
nemesis, for all its punk rock power, was a continuation of themes and characters and slogans and preoccupations that the millsverse had already been working with and shaping.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Dark Jimbo 07 September, 2022, 11:22:00 AM
Whilst Dante was consistently good, and never reached the lows of Nemesis at its worst, it never reached the heights of Nemesis at its best, either.

That's a nice way to put it. Nobody is going to argue that Dante wasn't the more consistent; in fact it may be the objectively 'better' thrill. Dante is less dated. Dante has remarkably few dull bits. Dante is the thrill I'm more likely to re-read tomorrow. Dante is the one I would give to a non-scrot to get them reading. Dante is the one I'd recommend, nine times out of ten. And yet...

...and yet. When Nemesis hits - when it's good, when Pat isn't pushing the latest agenda but just trying to tell the best story he can, when he and the artist (usually but not always O'Neill) are pushing each other to ever greater heights of lunacy and creativity - it sings. It's like pure bottled lightning. This is the strip, lest we forget, so incredibly blessed with ideas that it that created Warhammer 40,000 by accident. Credo!
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: The Mind of Wolfie Smith 07 September, 2022, 11:40:53 AM
tolstoy, bulgakov and tarkovsky created dante by accident.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Leigh S 07 September, 2022, 11:42:44 AM
Whilst Dante was consistently good, and never reached the lows of Nemesis at its worst, it never reached the heights of Nemesis at its best, either.

That's a nice way to put it. Nobody is going to argue that Dante wasn't the more consistent; i

Hold my beer!

Dante is a geat thrill that arrived just in time to perk the prog up after years of pain (though I'm not sure how it's #metoo credentials holds up since I last read it).  But for my money it is far more rambling, meandering and patchy than Nemesis ever was.

Whats the downside of Nemesis?  the O'Neill, REdondo Talbot stuff is untouchable and I would argue the Hicklenton and Roach stuff is not much of a step down, and a welcome change - Torquemada as slum landlord is on point.  It then gears up for a Horned God style relanch that sadly never comes - OK thats a bummer, but thats leaving me wanting more not less

Flint's final book is a bit "greatest hits" yeah, and wraps the story up too quickly (an error we see in Slaine, probably for similar reasons and again leaving me wanting more).  A Greatest Hits is quite appropriate for a story that started as Comic Rock

So Nemesis The Warlock
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: nxylas 07 September, 2022, 12:03:48 PM
to the best of my knowledge, nothing like dante has appeared in comics before, before or since in fact.
nemesis, for all its punk rock power, was a continuation of themes and characters and slogans and preoccupations that the millsverse had already been working with and shaping.
The ingredients in Dante are all pretty familiar, even if they haven't appeared in that exact combination elsewhere: a bit of Errol Flynn, a bit of James Bond, a dash of MACH 1 (the Romanov crest) etc. I'd argue that the antecedents of Nemesis are much harder to pin down outside other Millsverse strips.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: IndigoPrime 07 September, 2022, 12:06:05 PM
I never saw the final Nemesis series as a greatest hits. It was the album by a band you used to love and kept buying albums of, even when you knew they were years past their best. They vanish and come back ten years later. The cover art looks fucking fantastic. And then you listen to it and it’s like a pale shadow of what you used to adore.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: skurvy 07 September, 2022, 12:16:39 PM
Nemesis!
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Funt Solo 07 September, 2022, 02:32:59 PM
For the intricate illuminations, the best villain, the maddest crossover,
For Redondo’s spiders, for Torque-Armada, for Grobbendonk,
For metal fatigue, for the Blitzspear, for Chira,
Nemesis the Warlock
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: nxylas 07 September, 2022, 02:51:38 PM
I never saw the final Nemesis series as a greatest hits. It was the album by a band you used to love and kept buying albums of, even when you knew they were years past their best. They vanish and come back ten years later. The cover art looks fucking fantastic. And then you listen to it and it’s like a pale shadow of what you used to adore.
Though I voted for Nemesis, I can't argue with that, sadly. And to extend the metaphor further, everyone is excited because the original lead guitarist is coming back for the final track, but when you listen to it for the first time, his work is distinctly sub-prime. and not as good as the current guitarist.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Dash Decent 08 September, 2022, 01:24:47 PM
Not bad, Funt.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Blue Cactus 08 September, 2022, 01:56:20 PM
Not much to add to what’s been said above. Both would be worthy winners of the whole thing, but today I’m voting Nemesis.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: IndigoPrime 08 September, 2022, 02:37:18 PM
Well, I guess how this is turning out at least makes my vote in the final a whole lot easier.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: The Legendary Shark 08 September, 2022, 02:49:20 PM

After careful analysis,
To ending from Genesis,
(And without getting ranty,
'Bout my love for Dante,)
By the shade of a hair I vote Nemesis.


I'll get me quill...
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: IndigoPrime 08 September, 2022, 02:56:15 PM
By my count, Nemesis is ahead now. Mills fans can leap around the joint unless there are any Dante fans left in the house.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Timothy 08 September, 2022, 02:59:19 PM
Nemesis be damned! Remind me of the rules permitting a second vote.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Barrington Boots 08 September, 2022, 03:06:23 PM
Bojemoi!

Sets up easily the most predictable final two if so, which seems a bit disappointing now I think about it.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Trooper McFad 08 September, 2022, 03:41:20 PM
Would loved to have seen Nikolai v Johnny and I believe the new boy would have had a chance
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: nxylas 08 September, 2022, 05:47:29 PM
Well, I guess how this is turning out at least makes my vote in the final a whole lot easier.
And mine more difficult. If it does end up being Stront vs Nemesis, I may have to abstain.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: The Mind of Wolfie Smith 08 September, 2022, 06:11:56 PM
i'll abstain. very, very disappointing.

democracy sucks.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: broodblik 08 September, 2022, 06:40:36 PM
i'll abstain. very, very disappointing.

democracy sucks.

Nostalgia 2 Great New Thrills 0
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Funt Solo 08 September, 2022, 06:51:21 PM
By my count, Nemesis is ahead now. Mills fans can leap around the joint unless there are any Dante fans left in the house.

Well, I wasn't voting for Mills - I was voting for the comic Nemesis the Warlock - a large part of which (for me) relies on the co-creators. It's getting a little tiresome to hear people bang on about this being a nostalgia vote, when Dante is twelve years old, and I'm anyway perfectly capable of re-reading things. A lot of votes haven't gone my way but I'm not deriding people voting the other way than me of being deluded, foggy-brained or obsequious.

All the stories by this stage are excellent and deserve to be lauded to the heavens.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: sheridan 08 September, 2022, 06:55:53 PM
Yes, I noticed that at the last round (and earlier in this thread).  Just because your choice lost doesn't mean you have to be a sore loser and insult all those who voted for the winner by dismissing them as nostalgia-votes.  Suspect I won't participate in the next round - congratulations, your attitude has won out.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Magnetica 08 September, 2022, 07:25:54 PM
Yeah it’s not a nostalgia vote for me. Well not just a nostalgia vote. I have re-read all of Nemesis more recently than I’ve read Dante. And I’m about a third of the way through a Dante reread - just waiting for podcast to restart.

For me Nemesis is just a better strip. Both are good. Both are hugely important to the history and indeed survival of the Prog. But Nemesis is just better. In my opinion. Other opinions are valid.

Highs in Nemesis:
Comic Rock.
Killer watt.
Book 1.
Book 3.
Book 4.
Book 5.
Book 6.

Kev O’Neill’s amazing designs of Termite and the The Terminators. And all those aliens. And the Blitzspear.
Talbot’s amazing gothic scenes.
The scenes on the beach at the end of the world.
The amazing expressions Talbot gave Torquemada’s helmet.
Best villian ever. In any medium.
The Diceman Garden of Alien Delights story.
Great Uncle Baal.

: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Dark Jimbo 08 September, 2022, 09:05:30 PM
By my count, Nemesis is ahead now. Mills fans can leap around the joint unless there are any Dante fans left in the house.

It's getting a little tiresome to hear people bang on about this being a nostalgia vote, when Dante is twelve years old...

The first Dante stories are now twenty-five years old, of course - a whole quarter of a century.

I, too, voted for Nemesis the Warlock - not for nostalgia, and not for Mills.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Funt Solo 08 September, 2022, 10:08:07 PM
I should say: I know Colin puts a lot of work into these votes to try to bring us all together as a community, so I'm sorry if my being a grumpy mumpkin (copyright) out loud gets in the way of that. Hope not. No worries from me if Dante or Nemesis win the round. Carry on!
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: nxylas 08 September, 2022, 10:10:42 PM
The first Dante stories are now twenty-five years old, of course - a whole quarter of a century.
And the most recent one is 10 years old. IIRC.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: BPP 08 September, 2022, 10:36:03 PM
On reflection it’s Dante

I was genuinely saddened the day it ended.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Colin YNWA 09 September, 2022, 06:27:38 AM
Its the hope that kills you. Last count by a boarder had this late surge by Nemesis in the lead, but it can't be by much and so last day votes will decide this... if there are any left? I'll count up... carefully... in the morning.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: The Enigmatic Dr X 09 September, 2022, 08:07:47 AM
Dante for me
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Mike Carroll 09 September, 2022, 09:46:10 AM
My vote's for Dante. It's eminently re-readable, cohesive, imaginative and enthralling. (But I did enjoy the first few series of Nemesis before it got confusingly mashed together with The ABC Warriors and Satanus to form the Pattiverse and all the fun was squeezed out of it.)
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Magnetica 09 September, 2022, 10:22:27 AM
It’s getting hard to count the votes. Indeed at one point a comment is made about the size of the lead which I count differently. But, if I am correct the lead has changed hands and back again, so any further votes are going to make all the difference.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Colin YNWA 09 September, 2022, 10:24:03 AM
It’s getting hard to count the votes. Indeed at one point a comment is made about the size of the lead which I count differently. But, if I am correct the lead has changed hands and back again, so any further votes are going to make all the difference.

I'm going to do a precount tonight in preparation - also, uniquely, noting names to avoid double votes. Trusting me to get this right at 6am would be foolish!
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Magnetica 09 September, 2022, 10:33:20 AM
Yes there is at least one vote in bold which is proclaimed as a second vote ….which it is I believe.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: broodblik 09 September, 2022, 10:47:57 AM
Yes there is at least one vote in bold which is proclaimed as a second vote ….which it is I believe.

I also did a "second" vote also in bold
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Colin YNWA 09 September, 2022, 10:56:34 AM
Oh yeah I go you two marked already! All good, thjis thread has been such fun and my fav so far. Just its so close I want to make sure I get the result right!
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Magnetica 09 September, 2022, 12:17:48 PM
Yes there is at least one vote in bold which is proclaimed as a second vote ….which it is I believe.

I also did a "second" vote also in bold

Yes it was you I meant!

(I’ve only voted once, but have commented a couple of times).
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Proudhuff 09 September, 2022, 01:23:43 PM
Nemesis the Warlock for siding with the devil
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Timothy 09 September, 2022, 01:48:05 PM
Nemesis the Warlock for siding with the devil

It's arguable that Dante, with his sinful ways, sided with the devil. Nemesis IS the devil.

For the avoidance of doubt my vote remains with Dante.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Funt Solo 09 September, 2022, 06:52:54 PM
Just to throw the deviant among the terminators, Dante is currently leading the vote by one point - 17:16
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Magnetica 09 September, 2022, 07:14:47 PM
Just to throw the deviant among the terminators, Dante is currently leading the vote by one point - 17:16


Time to start knocking on doors and offering lifts down to the polling station then.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Funt Solo 09 September, 2022, 07:28:44 PM
Just one more vote for Nem and then it's all Colin's fault decision.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Colin YNWA 09 September, 2022, 07:56:01 PM
My nontraditional evening count, with names confirms all this scoring talk. The morning will confirm all...
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Jim_Campbell 09 September, 2022, 09:12:48 PM
As great as (early) Nemesis is, Dante is a sustained, consistent thrill with a proper beginning, middle and end… often brilliant, not afraid to upset its own status quo — in that respect, I’m not sure we’ve seen anything like it on this scale before or since.

It also marked a revival of the Prog as it emerged from the darkest depths of the mid-nineties making it, arguably, more important than Nemesis, whose glory days were firmly rooted in a time when 2000AD was in great shape regardless.

So: Nikolai Dante.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Southstreeter 09 September, 2022, 09:32:43 PM
I couldn’t remember if I’d voted yet. Apparently not, so it’s going to Dante for the quality of the story telling and characterisation.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Colin YNWA 10 September, 2022, 07:13:58 AM
VOTING CLOSED

Well what a ride this one has been! Genuinely exciting and such a fun thread, exactly what all this tounrey nonsense has been designed to do. The score on this one rocked and rolled, as Nemesis gave chase and towards the death caught up and over took... for Dante to strike back at the finish line. Thrilling stuff and absiolutely fitting for two such wonderful thrill. Enough has been said to dissect them both so I'll say no more, except to say I'm very pleased to announce

Nikolai Dante

will be in the final against Johnny Alpha and Nemesis just misses out in the biggest vote to date. Will Dante be able to shock us there?
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) 10 September, 2022, 07:18:39 AM
FANTASTIC!

SBT
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Jim_Campbell 10 September, 2022, 08:02:15 AM
Will Dante be able to shock us there?

He may be too cool to kill, but I don't fancy his chances much against the Top Dog…!
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Timothy 10 September, 2022, 10:44:33 AM
I suspect that Jim is right, but I am genuinely torn on which way to vote in the final. Which is as it should be - it would be a dull contest where every choice was an easy one.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: IndigoPrime 10 September, 2022, 11:02:12 AM
Bojemoi! After totting the numbers up and seeing the trend, I really wasn’t expecting this result. But, yeah, I imagine it’s an easy prediction which way the final will go (and, arguably, the post-final if that’ll end up pitting the winner against Dredd).

Still, I’m glad to see something other than Stront/Rogue/Sláine/Nemesis in the final, and it was good to see a properly modern strip (Lawless) make the final four.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: broodblik 10 September, 2022, 11:06:58 AM
From the Top 20 votes we had in 2020, this was the top 8:

Nemesis the Warlock
Strontium Dog (Alpha)
Nikolai Dante
Slaine
Halo Jones
ABC Warriors
Zenith
Brink
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: BPP 10 September, 2022, 04:26:48 PM
Saline was a victim of the draw this time while, imho, lawless had a pretty comfortable path till the semi with Strontium Dog.

Brink (stickleback, the out) and kingdom (proteus vex, rogue, sinDex) did a lot of work blasting out potential heavy hitters for such ‘new’ strips.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Colin YNWA 10 September, 2022, 04:48:44 PM
Worth noting that Lawless isn't in Brookbliks list as that vote covered just 2000ad stories so we don't have a reference there.

Lawless run to the semi's was

Samizdat Squad   Chimpsky's Law   Mazeworld   Thistlebone   Firekind   Brink

I think its tricky to call that easy, though obviously folks can have different views and there were clearly different routes. I think the comments on the Strontium Dog vote kinda reveal that Lawless, thought beaten, got to the semi on merit of it being a great strip. Could it have been knocked out earlier if it'd come across a Slaine, ABCs we'll never know...

except, maybe...

https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48876.0 (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48876.0)
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: broodblik 10 September, 2022, 06:47:04 PM
I think Lawless is a worthy top 4 strip and I am sure would have knockout most off the "stronger" candidates out.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Simon Fraser 16 September, 2022, 07:48:41 PM
Crikey!
I'd have voted for Nemesis myself.
: Re: FFT - Semi Final 1 - Nikolai Dante vs Nemesis the Warlock
: Jim_Campbell 16 September, 2022, 10:09:40 PM
Crikey!
I'd have voted for Nemesis myself.

Shows what you know! ;-p