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Author Topic: This is the News!  (Read 12852 times)

The Legendary Shark

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #300 on: 29 September, 2022, 08:45:10 PM »


I never said the three units were conspiring - *you* inserted that. Everything that follows, follows from your insertion.




Note to Shark - I never said that the 2nd amendment was designed to allow mass shootings. I said that the system (as it stands now) is designed to allow mass shootings. The law-makers know how to curtail mass shootings, by stopping easy access to high-powered weaponry. They don't curtail it. There is design in this. The NRA spend vast quantities of $$$ making sure that lawmakers stay off their lawn. There is design in this. Gun manufacturers do nothing to stop it, and thus continue to profit from the death of children. There is design in this.


And I did say the conspiracy might be coincidental, more of a random combination of similar interests pushing events in a certain direction than at the behest of half a dozen hooded chain-smokers in the back room behind the back room with direct lines to every power broker on the planet and a book written in blood by some 10th Century nutter which serves as The Plan.

I favour the former possibility as being most likely - the effects of power, money, and influence flexing their way through the illusion, bending it to individually selfish ends. But, maybe you're right. Maybe there is design in this.
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Hawkmumbler

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #301 on: 29 September, 2022, 08:47:06 PM »
I really don't have anything of substance to add that wouldn't feel ad nauseum, but maybe folks might find this a relevant and harrowing representation of the conundrum of unregulated arms profiteering.

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The Legendary Shark

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #302 on: 29 September, 2022, 09:46:34 PM »
governments can't do anything, good or bad?

thank goodness. kwasi kwarteng and the evil of this week is all an illusion. i was quite worried, for a moment ...

The evil is real - the evil is always real - but it dresses itself in the illusion of power. And, sure, it is a powerful illusion with the appearance of absolute solidity. But it's just people.

Whoever's at the top writes something down and the alchemy of government makes it Law. Words on a page, bearing  a suitably high-level stamp, can be, and have been, the doom of millions. But the power, and the responsibility, doesn't lie in the ink on the paper, or the official stamps, or even its author or signatories, but in the people who believe the illusion turns the scribblings of madmen into the Word of Absolute Authority and then act on them without regard to personal conscience or Common Law. Because the words are dipped in "government," the alchemical process of turning gangsters, fraudsters, and wasters into legitimate overseers. With flags and paper and gallons of ink.

And guns, of course. The illusion is quite well defended.

The fault lies in us. We are afraid to say no to the illusion, no matter how corrupt and unfit for purpose it has become, for to do so feels like a violation of civilization. Governments will never end wars or control economies or keep everyone safe. It's the human race as a whole that does all that. Governments just jump in front of the parade, swirling their petticoats and putting on their Punch and Judy shows, pretending to lead when in reality they're just keeping the Right People at the front, all shielded by the illusion that they have the right to rule.

They don't. They're just people, like everyone else. No amount of paper and ink can confer on one human being the right to dominate another. The loftiest stamp in the land cannot imbue words on a page with the right or power to kill. That's the illusion. Bound with spells. The idea that these words have power, even though they come only from another human being, or group of human beings, and not some mythical deity named Government.

Once I understood that, I knew that I would never blindly trust these people again and that I would never override my own morality to gain their favours. The only power the illusion has to force me back into its clutches is the power you give it. The only power it has at all is that which we give it.

The illusion is wrapped in mirrors, so all that power you see when you look at it; it's a reflection. That's you, all of you, with all of your power. The illusion tells you to do something that conflicts with your morality? Just say no. That's all I want from the illusion, and all I'm prepared to give it.

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Funt Solo

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #303 on: 29 September, 2022, 10:07:16 PM »
And I did say the conspiracy might be coincidental...

I'm sorry - I never set out to deliberately disagree with you - it's just that I can't make sense out of almost anything you say. If it's a coincidence, then it's not a conspiracy.

I was talking about gun control legislation - you're talking about illusions. It's a bit like Yuval Noah Harari had a stroke and took mushrooms.
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The Legendary Shark

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #304 on: 30 September, 2022, 07:41:18 AM »

"If it's a coincidence, then it's not a conspiracy." If it's a coincidence, then it's not a single unified conspiracy.

"I was talking about gun control legislation - you're talking about illusions." Legislation is the illusion of law.

"...I can't make sense out of almost anything you say." I think you're doing just fine.

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JayzusB.Christ

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #305 on: 30 September, 2022, 09:02:28 AM »
An absolute pounding (sorry) for the Tories in the polls.  I doubt a British PM has ever had a worse start.  Looks like the next general election will deliver you a leader who actually gives a fuck about you.
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IndigoPrime

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #306 on: 30 September, 2022, 09:20:03 AM »
I just hope it also delivers a leader (and a cabinet) that actually gives a fuck about electoral reform, rather than another repeat of 1997 that will result in a ton of hubris and an eventual electoral defeat for Labour, despite Lab+Lib polling together over 50% and rabid Tories gaining yet another majority on 35–40%.

I won’t hold my breath, despite what happened at the Labour conference, the vast majority of Labour voters and members being in favour of PR, CLPs mostly being in favour of PR, most of the big unions now being in favour of PR, and a great many Labour MPs being in favour of PR.

The Mind of Wolfie Smith

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #307 on: 30 September, 2022, 08:40:12 PM »
labour has become tory-lite, again, in order to become electable (they sung the anthem at conference, for the first time ever, to this end). they will win, due to truss. but, no, they couldn't give a toss about those who have nothing at all.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #308 on: 30 September, 2022, 10:59:16 PM »
 Fair point - I suppose tory-lite at this stage of the game is anything left of Vlad the Impaler.
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Richard

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #309 on: 30 September, 2022, 11:32:32 PM »
Yeah, wouldn't it be much better if Labour were unelectable so the Tories got re-elected in 2024 and 2029 and 2034?

The Mind of Wolfie Smith

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #310 on: 01 October, 2022, 01:42:01 AM »
the electable starmer will win on a wet tory manifesto that will do very little for the dispossessed and the ill.

the so-called unelectable corbyn needed just 2227 more votes in 2017 to become pm on a manifesto that would have been genuinely transformative and progressive. so it can be done. just 2227.

Dandontdare

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #311 on: 01 October, 2022, 02:40:43 AM »
the electable starmer will win on a wet tory manifesto that will do very little for the dispossessed and the ill.

sady I agree. He wins, wet tory policies fail to deliver Nirvana within four years, press vilifies Starmer, public goes back to voting for the reliably disappointing establishment.

IndigoPrime

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #312 on: 01 October, 2022, 10:58:52 AM »
The electoral coalition is tricky. To win, Labour has to get back a ton of voters in England who voted Tory, without spooking them. My hope is that same policy decisions are being driven by this and elements of caution are down to that.

At conference, I was deeply disappointed with how Labour played the same bullshit game as the Tories with money that doesn’t exist. (Reinstating the 45p tax rate: good. Lying that this somehow gives you ‘extra’ money to use: bad.) But then the national energy company idea was a masterstroke (and actually a better idea than attempting to renationalise the utilities without owning the source of power). I was also glad that Starmer didn’t take a pop at the Libs during his speech. (For me, the ideal outcome of a GE would be Labour needing a confidence agreement from 30–50 Libs, in return for PR and closer EU relations, but I suspect that’s now a pipe dream. The Libs are, surprisingly, heading towards electoral wipeout.)

I still think the party is being disingenuous over Brexit and EU relations, although its policy is essentially three quarters of the Lib Dem plan (ending before single market membership, which is the end goal of the Libs). The party is also awful on migrants and asylum seekers (too often conflating the two and being shit to both), and the leadership dreadful on PR.

But.

Right now, we don’t even have anything that is recognisable a Tory government. We have a far-right government. It is authoritarian, corporatist and economically libertarian. It wants to destroy the state. If Labour’s end point during this stage of politics is something close to Blair regarding political positioning, so be it. I’m sure people would prefer the party to be more radical, but I’d at this stage prefer it to be electable.

Richard

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #313 on: 01 October, 2022, 01:04:03 PM »
Indeed. Being radical doesn't accomplish anything if you're never in power to implement your policies.

the electable starmer will win on a wet tory manifesto that will do very little for the dispossessed and the ill.

Do you really imagine that Labour would have abolished the 45% tax bracket and paid for it by cutting benefits?

IndigoPrime

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Re: This is the News!
« Reply #314 on: 01 October, 2022, 02:07:22 PM »
I hear the same about Blair. He was just a soft Tory! Objectively, though, his government did a ton more for the less well-off. Was it perfect? Far from it. But if we aim for perfect, we are always going to be disappointed. Right now, I’ll settle for better and for things heading in the right direction, not the wrong one.