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Author Topic: To Flesh or not  (Read 1690 times)

Colin YNWA

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #15 on: 14 September, 2022, 06:12:18 AM »
I'd absolutely welcome more Flesh, to be honest I'd prefer an artist other than Clint Langley. I personally was a fan of James McKay but that ship has flown. As has been said Savage is the series I would most like to see get a final send off.

I'm not anticipating any of that happening for a while and I'm not sure what Uncle Pat is up to these days I'm not seeing much and I do wonder if other work slows will he return to the fold? There's no sign of this yet so I'm not holding my breathe.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #16 on: 14 September, 2022, 06:54:47 AM »
Sure, Mills could have gone away and came up with a different angle, but after a few decades of writing Deadlock he might have only seen one way for the character to progress. And by the time Diggle left the idea had gone off the boil and that was the end of that.

Andy was only the editor for two years — he left the post about a year after Deadlock Book 1 finished running, so it's hardly as though Pat would have had to wait an eternity to dust off the proposal and give it another try, if he felt that strongly that it was the right and only way to go.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that Pat didn't have every right to leave Deadlock's story where he did and not return to it, just observing that "There was never a Book 2 of Deadlock because Andy Diggle" doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

Apologies for the continuing thread derail. I'll shut up now. :-)
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broodblik

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #17 on: 14 September, 2022, 07:02:08 AM »
I find this quite interesting. Personally I would prefer Savage next ABC Warriors and then only Flesh to be concluded. If nothing happens on that front it is also fine by me. It would be interesting to get a new writer to conclude the stories the intrigue and politics of it all would be more fascinating than the story itself (lets stir that pot :)).
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #18 on: 14 September, 2022, 07:12:01 AM »
Personally I would prefer Savage next

Me, too. I've found Savage to be the most consistently entertaining of all the modern-era Mills Thrills™. Defoe started spetacularly but (for me) lost its way fairly rapidly, and I could cheerfully never read another episode of either ABC Warriors or Flesh. Not to say that either of those strips couldn't be developed in interesting directions, just that the direction (or lack of) that Mills has chosen for them doesn't interest me much.
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The Legendary Shark

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #19 on: 14 September, 2022, 07:54:29 AM »

[shamelessselfpromotiondept]
This is how Flesh ends...



[/shamelessselfpromotiondept]
~~~^~~~~~~~


Never Forget.

IndigoPrime

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #20 on: 14 September, 2022, 09:57:30 AM »
If Pat and Rebellion can sort out their not insignificant issues; could it happen?
I’m not sure what these issues are on Rebellion’s side. From what I can tell, Matt Smith has always been happy to run strips by Mills and hasn’t interfered to any degree with what he wanted to write. From the other side, Mills is furious about Rebellion’s entire business model, regularly slags off the company online, and often complains that not every single strip he’s written has been reprinted (despite him getting more reprint than most other creators) and then moans when strips are reprinted because the money he gets isn’t enough.

On that basis, it seems like Rebellion’s side is “just pitch us some more stories”, whereas Mills is “change everything about how your entire publishing arm operates, to suit me”.

(Note that, as a writer myself, I do get it. The way in which you give up rights and get little to nothing back over the long term can be shit. I’d say there is room within publishing as a whole to revisit some aspects of contracts and ownership. But also, businesses make decisions to ensure viability – which is increasingly precarious in economic downturns for niche fare. And so you as a writer must make whatever decisions you feel are in your best interests. Mills has come down on “nuts to those guys”, which is fair enough and his choice. But I suspect anyone waiting for Jason Kingsley to do a table flip on his business, just to get another book of Savage, is going to be disappointed.)

sheridan

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #21 on: 14 September, 2022, 11:31:06 AM »
Let's face it, if Rebellion were to give up their rights to the IP they own, it'd be for Halo Jones Books IV - IX, not Savage.

Anyway, on the subject of Mills stories with decent endings - The Horned God finished the tale begun with The Time Monster from Prog 330.  I'm not saying the stories past there weren't good, but they weren't part of the overall narrative that had begun, and it showed.

Regarding Nemesis - Mills appears to have been economical with the truth when saying in early eighties interviews that the whole story was planned out, Star Wars style*  It doesn't help that the time disruption that stopped Nemesis from killing Torque in Vengeance of Thoth onwards was completely ignored by the end.


* George Lucas was also claiming that the whole story was planned out, though nowadays we know that the family spoilers from the end of Empire and middle of Jedi were made up during writing those films.

nxylas

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #22 on: 14 September, 2022, 11:54:05 AM »
Let's face it, if Rebellion were to give up their rights to the IP they own, it'd be for Halo Jones Books IV - IX, not Savage.
I recently read somewhere that Ian Gibson was complaining that Rebellion had reneged on a promise to do just that. I don't know any more details, I'm afraid, nor have I been able to verify the rumour.
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Jim_Campbell

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #23 on: 14 September, 2022, 12:33:52 PM »
Ian Gibson was complaining

This is pretty much Ian Gibson's default state these days, and much of it has only the most tenuous relation to the actual situation. No idea about this latest gripe, but several of his previous moans haven't had much (if any) basis in reality.
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Proudhuff

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #24 on: 14 September, 2022, 12:51:21 PM »
Happy to never see Flesh again. I'm not one for long complex backstories, shoehorned characters and thinly veiled manifestos, and I'm a old leftie.

I think, like so many creators, Mrs Mill's laddie produces his best work when constrained by boundaries or rubbing up against another creative (see Lennon and McCartney, Strummer and Jones etc)

So its a not from me: New thrills please!
DDT did a job on me

Colin YNWA

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #25 on: 14 September, 2022, 01:50:07 PM »
Happy to never see Flesh again. I'm not one for long complex backstories, shoehorned characters and thinly veiled manifestos, and I'm a old leftie.

Just add 'with Dinosaurs' to the end each of those thing you are not one for and then try it again...

13school

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #26 on: 14 September, 2022, 02:02:59 PM »
Based on Mills' latest email newsletter, he a): says he's wrapped everything up but Flesh for 2000AD*, and b): his (current?) problem seems to be that under the current financial model writing for 2000AD isn't worth his time, or the time of many of the artists he's been working with.

I guess b): is up to him and the artists, but a): was a bit of a surprise. Perhaps he means the scripts for the final Savage / Defoe / ABC Warriors are written but the artists haven't drawn them yet? Or just that he feels their current conclusions are how he wanted the stories to end? Maybe it's just that Flesh is the only one that ends with "to be continued".


(*"The good is that I’ve managed to complete my various serials before leaving 2000AD. That is, apart from Flesh, which still requires a final serial. So everything is done and dusted.")
« Last Edit: 14 September, 2022, 02:04:32 PM by 13school »

Jim_Campbell

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #27 on: 14 September, 2022, 02:24:30 PM »
erhaps he means the scripts for the final Savage / Defoe / ABC Warriors are written but the artists haven't drawn them yet?

There's the briefly-Bisley-but-mainly-Langley Joe Pineapples series which (as far as I know) is the final ABC Warriors-related strip. I don't think there's any more Defoe coming, and Pat himself said he feels like Savage's story has concluded with where he left it.
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broodblik

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #28 on: 14 September, 2022, 02:26:29 PM »
That is also my understanding that Pat believes Savage has concluded
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

Richard

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Re: To Flesh or not
« Reply #29 on: 14 September, 2022, 02:54:24 PM »
From the tone in which he wrote his email, I'd say he's stopped because he's flounced off in a huff:

"The good [news] is that I’ve managed to complete my various serials before leaving 2000AD. That is, apart from Flesh, which still requires a final serial. So everything is done and dusted. The good also includes leaving Sláine on a high note, as rendered by Leo Manco’s brilliant interpretation. And Rebellion’s assurance that my stories end with me and won’t be pounced on by hungry hacks eager to make a quick buck and then fuck them up as they’ve fucked up so many great comic stories in the past. So that’s an excellent reason for celebration!

 The bad is the reasons I finally had to throw in the towel and leave 2000AD, joining a long list of writers and artists who loved the comic but reluctantly had to give up on it. I guess I lasted longer than most, because 2000AD was my creation. I believe that out of the original writers and artists, I’m almost the last man standing. I’m not sure the significance of this creative exodus is always understood by some readers or perhaps they imagine that writers and artists are endlessly replaceable, which has always been the publishers’ fantasy. But today, it is just a fantasy. It’s also inexcusable because creators are irreplaceable."