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Started by Keef Monkey, 11 June, 2011, 09:35:35 AM

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Link Prime

Every 'key' Mario game is a different degree of genius.
It's a series I've followed consistently since I started gaming more than 25 years ago, and I've genuinely never been let down.

Regarding Mario 64- for me this was a milestone not only in the series, but in gaming itself.
It's the very blueprint for 3D platforming, and is hugely entertaining.
Definitely in my all time top 10.

I quite liked the N64 graphics at the time on many games- but that was 1998!

radiator

Ok, I was trolling a bit there, but I honestly never liked SMB2. I only played it via Mario All Stars and I think it not originally being a Mario game was already common knowledge by then, though even if it wasn't, it always seemed like the black sheep to me. Could never really get a handle on the structure or mechanics and it always felt quite tedious and lacking in tightness compared to the others.

I personally think World is the peak of 2D Mario - though I can understand the point of view of it being too complicated - for me it's Yoshi's Island (the SNES one) that over egged the formula (pun partially intended). I know a lot of people love that game but it didn't click with me at all.

Though all the 'core' games with the exception of perhaps Sunshine are varying degrees of great, Mario 64 was, for me, the last truly essential Mario game. Though it doesn't really capture the freewheeling gymnastics of the 2D originals, it's special in its own way.

JamesC

#842
I found the recent 3D World to be really overblown. It had some silly cut scene at the beginning which got on my nerves (if any game doesn't need a cut scene surely it's Mario) and once the actual game started I thought there were too many upgrades. Seriously, you could be cat-Mario for 99% of the time I played. Also, the Goombas and Koopas didn't seem to pose any threat - they were just there to add to the Mario-ness.
In the old games the upgrades were precious. Even if you had plenty in stock in Mario 3 a tough level could wipe you out. The Goombas and Koopas (along with other enemies) were always a genuine threat in the old games because of their fiendish placement.

This sounds like an 'everything was better in the old days' post. Generally I don't feel like that about gaming but I think the immediacy of old games is something that's been lost. I'd add repetition to that too. I like the fact that in old Mario games you start from the beginning each time - you challenge yourself to get as far as possible without losing lives, or to get as high a score as possible or finish a level in record time.

JamesC

Quote from: radiator on 07 May, 2014, 03:56:24 PM
I only played it via Mario All Stars and I think it not originally being a Mario game was already common knowledge by then, though even if it wasn't, it always seemed like the black sheep to me.

I think this makes a huge difference. When I played it there were only 2 sheep to compare!

radiator

Quote from: JamesC on 07 May, 2014, 04:04:32 PM
I found the recent 3D World to be really overblown. It had some silly cut scene at the beginning which got on my nerves (if any game doesn't need a cut scene surely it's Mario) and once the actual game started I thought there were too many upgrades. Seriously, you could be cat-Mario for 99% of the time I played. Also, the Goombas and Koopas didn't seem to pose any threat - they were just there to add to the Mario-ness.
In the old games the upgrades were precious. Even if you had plenty in stock in Mario 3 a tough level could wipe you out. The Goombas and Koopas (along with other enemies) were always a genuine threat in the old games because of their fiendish placement.

This sounds like an 'everything was better in the old days' post. Generally I don't feel like that about gaming but I think the immediacy of old games is something that's been lost. I'd add repetition to that too. I like the fact that in old Mario games you start from the beginning each time - you challenge yourself to get as far as possible without losing lives, or to get as high a score as possible or finish a level in record time.

Though I haven't played 3D World, I broadly agree, and I think you've hit upon that paradox that I often go on about - the fact that games are too easy nowadays. An element of challenge is essential for many players for a game to hold their attention, but at the same time, people's attention spans are much shorter nowadays, so developers are shit-scared of making their games too hard and risk the player giving up entirely. I know some folk like to just play through a game on the easiest setting just to 'enjoy the story' but I couldn't think of anything more boring. It's the same with FPS games - they used to be like complex mazes you had to negotiate, now they're little more than corridors full of pop-up targets to shoot. There's no easy answer how to get around it, unfortunately.

I agree with you wholeheartedly about Mario in particular - the old games always made you feel like you were sprinting across a tightrope - one slip and you'd be a goner. The balance between tantalisingly fragile power (the scarce fire flowers, feathers and precious precious mushrooms) and your vulnerability was absolutely key to the games. Now they throw loads of stuff at you constantly and are for the most part a cakewalk. It grinds my gears when you somehow manage to die on a certain section in one of the recent games and the game patronises you by giving you a free raccoon leaf of power star. And yeah, I know the extra/bonus levels in 3D Land are apparently quite hard, but that's no good to me if I'm already bored of the game before you get to them. Agree totally about cut-scenes too. 'The Princess is in another castle' is all the 'story' I need.

Said it before, but I'd love Nintendo to do a new 2D Mario that is every bit as unforgiving as the old games. They could market it on that very point, call it 'Mario Dark' or 'Evil Mario' or some shit.

radiator

Quote from: JamesC on 07 May, 2014, 04:10:13 PM
Quote from: radiator on 07 May, 2014, 03:56:24 PM
I only played it via Mario All Stars and I think it not originally being a Mario game was already common knowledge by then, though even if it wasn't, it always seemed like the black sheep to me.

I think this makes a huge difference. When I played it there were only 2 sheep to compare!

All true, World was the first one I really played, then I got Mario All Stars after that. As a result I always found SMB3 slightly too punishing and obtuse, and couldn't make head nor tale of SMB2. I also can't remember if you could save your progress on any of them.

I downloaded SMB3 on the 3DS recently, and was a bit dismayed it was just the NES original - which I always thought a very ugly game (as all NES games are) and there are no saves, other than the easily-abused save state.

radiator

Quotegames are too easy nowadays

Should also stress that I don't necessarily want games to be as hard as they used to be, either. 99% of old games were just spitefully hard, which is why so few games tend to age well. I played Mega Man 2 the other day, and it's borderline unplayable now.

Theblazeuk

Oh I take back my glowing memories of Super Mario World.

SMB3 is probably the superior game with its Hammer Brothers, back up powers and more.

However I personally played most of Super Mario Bros 2 for the gameboy, which was great. Particularly the water levels and where you got really really small. Also had a huge fondness for Wario and his money grubbing ways.

GordyM

Trying to regain any interest in Assassin's Creed 5.

Follow that guy. Follow this guy. Listen to conversation. Stab someone. Listen. Follow. Follow. Stab. Listen. Listen. Follow. Stab. Stab. Listen. Follow. Listen. Stab... etc etc. Even the sea battles become repetitive quickly. Variation knows no home in AC 5.
Check out my new comic Supermom: Expecting Trouble and see how a pregnant superhero tries to deal with the fact that the baby's father is her archnemesis. Free preview pack including 12 pages of art: http://www.mediafire.com/file/57986rnlgk0itfz/Supermom_Preview_Pack.pdf/file

CheechFU

Football manager. It's constantly entertaining

Definitely Not Mister Pops

Many of my friends have a bad dose of Football Manager. A few claim to don a suit for cup finals. I remember hearing a story about a fella who played the same edition for several years. He sunk an ungodly amount of time into it, which I understand is de rigueur for this aficianados of this game. Won the English League and European Cup a few dozen times. He loved this game, he was really good at it too. Until he officially reprimanded his highest paid player* for getting too big for his boots, so the board of directors* fired him. He took the disc out and went down to his shed** to get his hammer**. He was screwed by conflated spreadsheets.

*Virtual

**Real
You may quote me on that.

PsychoGoatee

Tesla Effect, the new Tex Murphy game, so awesome. Hard boiled gumshoe in 2050, mutants, noir, live-action cutscenes, this game rocks my face.

The Enigmatic Dr X

Finished The Last of Us last night.

I enjoyed it. Enjoyed it tremendously, in fact. But it wasn't a game - it was an interactive movie. So many games are these days.

And, for all its accolades, it was a Z-list movie at that.

In fact, the only games machines that I can think of are the Wii U, Vita and 3DS. By game, I mean something abstract and replayable where the emphasis is on learning rules to overcome a set of repeatable obstacles.

I am also mildly astonished to find that I have 38 PC titles (excluding Skyrim) on Steam and 15 PS3 games (including GTA V) to play through. As I take a couple of months, say 6 weeks, to play a game - that means I ain't getting a PS4 for a few years.
Lock up your spoons!

shaolin_monkey

Ha!  tell me about it!  I keep adding to my bloody Steam games - it was Bioshock Infinite last night, for £6.  I had to delete a shitload of barely played Steam-bought games from my hardrive just to fit it on.

Bioshock Infinite looks interesting (played about 30 mins yesterday) - the 3D on it is good, if anyone has an nVidia 3D vision setup.  It gave me mild motion sickness, although that may have been due to high convergence settings.

CheechFU

Quote from: Mister Pops on 12 May, 2014, 04:23:01 AM
Many of my friends have a bad dose of Football Manager. A few claim to don a suit for cup finals. I remember hearing a story about a fella who played the same edition for several years. He sunk an ungodly amount of time into it, which I understand is de rigueur for this aficianados of this game. Won the English League and European Cup a few dozen times. He loved this game, he was really good at it too. Until he officially reprimanded his highest paid player* for getting too big for his boots, so the board of directors* fired him. He took the disc out and went down to his shed** to get his hammer**. He was screwed by conflated spreadsheets.

*Virtual

**Real

It's like Pokemon, The Sims, Command & Conquer and the most grindiest JRPG had a baby but it was badly deformed and a spreadsheet and smothered in meth and also made entirely of numbers and someone tacked fifa 96 match engine on to it